The current exchange rate of the day. HSBC doesn't discount. If the exchange rate on that day is 9.187 HKD to 1 EUR, then that is the rate of the transaction.
Ok I used to work in a bank. The exchange they advertise already has margins to built-in to cover the fees. Other exchanges might have higher or lower rates depending on their margins.
As far as transaction time, I call bullshit. Blockchain itself says they average about 900 minutes, which would be about 15 hours. So a business day.
Not sure where you went to school, I downloaded the CSV from your link an calculated an average of 115 minutes.
Also worth noting, confirmation times are dependent on how many confirmations you require (ie smaller transactions may only need one, therefore take 10 minutes, larger ones may want 20 which could take an hour+).
Also worth noting, transaction times can be improved by offering higher fees, so you have the choice of faster or slower confirmations.
Also worth noting this is only Bitcoin which has a slower network than many other coins, eg for Litecoin it's 2.5 minutes.
All of this is better than waiting 1 business day which could mean as much as three days and you have no control over it.
And good luck using that decentralized currency in China, or soon-to-be several major economies who are choosing to ban Bitcoin and other "crypto" currencies. If you cannot send it at all, then how is it better? At least from HK, or the USA, I can send USD or HKD to any country anywhere, any time - without any restriction.
And do you know how your bank will be transferring to other banks overseas? That's right your bank probably already using blockchain for this, or has a prototype underway. Don't get caught up in the Bitcoin specifics, blockchain is taking over the finance world.
Blockchain will allow regular folks to bypass the banks, which if you were alive in the GFC is a huge leap forward.
Having a job as a Gen. Y'er doesn't pay enough to leave you with excess cash. My next paycheck won't leave me with any.
You seem to be confusing your personal circumstances with every single person born after 1980.
A guy at the desk next to mine bought $100 worth of BTC in 2013 to buy some drugs on Silkroad. He chickened out and left it sitting there, it's now worth $50k. He's Gen Y.
Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you have to work, but blaming everyone else for your situation won't get you anywhere.
By creating a currency ostensibly free from the corrupting influence of government control of fiat currencies, bitcoin has managed to become a currency which is 150x even more corrupt.
I think you are confusing the word corruption with market distribution.
The difference with Bitcoin is that no-one is forcing you to use it at the same time as dictating how you can use it and what it is worth. If you find Bitcoin's market penetration not at a level you accept you could always choose one of the 1000+ other crypto coins that have might have better distribution (if that's what you are into).
If you own bitcoin, and haven't converted to other forms of currency, then you're not making money: You're like a homeowner whose house value has gone up a lot: you have value on paper.
Yeah that's how value works. Or do you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffet walk around everywhere they go with a trailer of cash behind them?
That's funny. I feel the same way every time some bitcoin fanboy mentions fiat currency, deflationary currency, any a myriad of other phrases, all while acting like bitcoin is some magic pill to cure all that ails you even though they don't seem to understand what the ailment is,
Probably true, every side has its idiots. The difference is that even if you don't understand blockchain, the bitcoin fanboys are getting rich off it. What are the tulip fanboys getting for their effort?
Use cases are abstract. It's all theory. Who accepts cryptocurrency?
Banks already use it for interbank transactions, here is a new crypto backed by a government to transact units of energy, and this is another specifically for Internet of Things which is supported by Cisco, Bosch, and Foxconn.
This is real, right now today and isn't going away
The way things are going, who even understands it? Who even bothers?
Just like cars in 1900's, or TVs in 1940,'s or the internet in 1990's you mean?
That argument never works out well with new innovative technology.
In this theoretical world, how do I use the cryptocurrency? What's the economics?.
Eventually most people won't have to understand it, just like they don't understand how PCI-DSS compliance works for the credit card they use everyday now.
Right now there is a technological barrier to entry, just like the Internet in 1990 was hard. But the people who build and support the technology, and the applications that let regular people benefit from the technology will profit from it, just like every other major technology breakthrough in history.
How? I have seen this said too and it doesnâ(TM)t really make sense. Itâ(TM)s a nice little game and games have value but I donâ(TM)t see it as something significant to be disruptive.
So because you don't understand it, it can't be real?
I see Bitcoin as a very poor currency.
Don't get caught up with just Bitcoin. There's thousands of other coins and tokens out there that all have different strengths and weaknesses.
And they great thing with crypto currency it is software, so if you do identify a weakness, you can modify it to fix it (as BTC is about to do with the lightning network)
It has limited, non-replaceable units, and inefficient transactions.
Like gold? BTC will probably not replace cash, but it could very well serve as a good replacement for Gold. There are however many many other crypto coins that could replace cash. This is the great thing, rather than just cash, you can design a transaction network specifically whatever you are dealing in. We just had one here backed by our govt built purely to transact units of energy in the electricity generation sector. Another one was specifically for identity transactions to replace govt issued ID. The applications are endless.
. But as a society do we really not trust the records office enough to say that we as participants in the market ALL have to agree with on every ownership change of said assets? Seems overkill.
It's the same argument as imperialism vs democracy. Do you not trust your king to act in your best interests? The technology now exists where we no longer have to rely on a central authority to validate a transaction. This is extremely powerful and will change the way we do things. This is why it is generating a lot of interest.
The problem is that so many people who know nothing about either Tulip Mania or Cryptocurrency throw this phrase around like it's some sort golden pass to predicting the future. And it's getting tedious.
It's at the point where I soon as someone mentions tulips it's like a big flashing sign that says I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about but I'll offer my opinion anyway.
It's perfectly possible that the rich people are offering large sums for small quantities of Bitcoin to push up the price then dumping large quantities when everybody sees it.
(aka: "Pumping and Dumping")
It's possible, but this is true for any market. And you can check volumes one any exchange, so unless you think 'small quantities' is billions of dollars, you hypothesis isn't matching the observations
Remember: Bitcoin only redistributes money, it doesn't ever create anything of tangible value)
A couple of points.
One, regular money only redistributes money yet it is also a thing. So the concept of a thing that redistributes money is proven
Two, Blockchain is better at redistributing money (and more importantly auditable transactions) than existing systems. Think Fax v Email.
Three, BTC is only one of 1000+ blockchain type currencies. Other varieties do actually provide different uses such as Power Ledger, which was designed specifically to trade units of energy in the electricity generation market. This is a real thing being used by real people and businesses. There are literally dozens of these types of application that have use.
For a technology site I find it odd that so many people here don't actually understand the technology behind it.
Every time I look at this chart I think: "Tulip bulbs"...
Of course because tulips and decentralised digital currency are exactly the same thing.
of course there is once again no shortage of people telling me this is completely sustainable and will go on forever.
Where are these people? I read a bit about Cryptocurrency, and I've never seen anyone ever say that.
What they do say is that decentralised currency is disruptive, and in a currency market worth trillions, so the potential market of such a technology is in the trillions of dollars. BTC is currently about $300B MCAP, so if you follow the logic there is more room for growth.
But go back to tulips if that is more your level...
I pay ~$14 ($100 HKD) to wire any amount of money, anywhere, and it is guaranteed/confirmed within 1 business day. That's not frictionless? Log in on my phone, enter the amount, enter the recipient's account, and push a button. Done.
At what exchange rate? I send money around a little bit, the 'no fees' line mean they rape you on the rate they give you.
Another issue is why do you accept 1 business day as ok? So you send on a Friday you have to wait until at least Monday? Blockchain transactions are done in seconds anywhere in the world.
Last issue is if for whatever reason your local government decides they don't want to allow you to use your money how you see fit, what are your alternatives.
Decentralised currency has use cases. And while those use cases exist there will be a market.
Yep..and again....EVERY job is NOT a job one makes their sole livelihood from....
And with stuff like Patreon, most all it takes is your extra time doing something you likely would be doing for free as that you like it.
And more importantly, the Internet is global, "Federal minimum wage" only applies to one country which also happens to be the wealthiest nation on earth.
So for the other 200 odd countries that also have Internet, maybe those economics don't apply.
One guy I follow on Patreon lives in Brazil and said in one of his videos that he now makes enough to make a living from it. $7.25 USD an hour is a lot when your country's minimum wage $10/day.
You still up for it? Knowing your "good life" will likely mean living alone in a small, filthy cage with an unending supply of food, and a distracted slaughter that you probably won't be conscious for as puberty begins to slow down?
Maybe where you live has lower standard of living both for humans and animals. Where I live, cows and sheep roam free in paddocks. Not a bad life compared to a lot of other species.
Slashdot Mirror
Because at least check China produces about 80% of it's power generation from burning coal.
Your own link says 69%.
Remember: never trust some bullshit click bail green washing headline when you can easily check the facts for yourself.
Heh ironic...
The current exchange rate of the day. HSBC doesn't discount. If the exchange rate on that day is 9.187 HKD to 1 EUR, then that is the rate of the transaction.
Ok I used to work in a bank. The exchange they advertise already has margins to built-in to cover the fees. Other exchanges might have higher or lower rates depending on their margins.
As far as transaction time, I call bullshit. Blockchain itself says they average about 900 minutes, which would be about 15 hours. So a business day.
Not sure where you went to school, I downloaded the CSV from your link an calculated an average of 115 minutes.
Also worth noting, confirmation times are dependent on how many confirmations you require (ie smaller transactions may only need one, therefore take 10 minutes, larger ones may want 20 which could take an hour+).
Also worth noting, transaction times can be improved by offering higher fees, so you have the choice of faster or slower confirmations.
Also worth noting this is only Bitcoin which has a slower network than many other coins, eg for Litecoin it's 2.5 minutes.
All of this is better than waiting 1 business day which could mean as much as three days and you have no control over it.
And good luck using that decentralized currency in China, or soon-to-be several major economies who are choosing to ban Bitcoin and other "crypto" currencies. If you cannot send it at all, then how is it better? At least from HK, or the USA, I can send USD or HKD to any country anywhere, any time - without any restriction.
And do you know how your bank will be transferring to other banks overseas? That's right your bank probably already using blockchain for this, or has a prototype underway. Don't get caught up in the Bitcoin specifics, blockchain is taking over the finance world.
Blockchain will allow regular folks to bypass the banks, which if you were alive in the GFC is a huge leap forward.
Having a job as a Gen. Y'er doesn't pay enough to leave you with excess cash. My next paycheck won't leave me with any.
You seem to be confusing your personal circumstances with every single person born after 1980.
A guy at the desk next to mine bought $100 worth of BTC in 2013 to buy some drugs on Silkroad. He chickened out and left it sitting there, it's now worth $50k. He's Gen Y.
Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you have to work, but blaming everyone else for your situation won't get you anywhere.
By creating a currency ostensibly free from the corrupting influence of government control of fiat currencies, bitcoin has managed to become a currency which is 150x even more corrupt.
I think you are confusing the word corruption with market distribution.
The difference with Bitcoin is that no-one is forcing you to use it at the same time as dictating how you can use it and what it is worth. If you find Bitcoin's market penetration not at a level you accept you could always choose one of the 1000+ other crypto coins that have might have better distribution (if that's what you are into).
...because that's exactly what Bitcoin is. A pyramid.
An investment, but worse than any stock, because it's an investment in nothing.
Just like the internet. You can't eat ones and zeroes so it will never be useful for anything... .
For one person to get $1,000,000 in bitcoin, other people must collectively give up $1,000,000.
All these people getting rich are doing so at the expense of other people who join later.
Just like Gold and Silver right?
Have held their value for THOUSANDS of years.
Like horses. Do you know anyone that travels to work by horse?
Bit Coins are so valuable that they are worthless.
Just like Berkshire Hathaway shares...
If you own bitcoin, and haven't converted to other forms of currency, then you're not making money: You're like a homeowner whose house value has gone up a lot: you have value on paper.
Yeah that's how value works. Or do you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffet walk around everywhere they go with a trailer of cash behind them?
Given what the Winkelvoss twins have been up to, I'd imagine this is exactly what's going on.
Because who needs evidence when we have our imaginations...
Actually it's because I'm a Gen. Y'er so I don't have excess cash to gamble with.
You don't have a job? Being young is precisely the time you should be gambling, as the older you get the less risk you should take.
If I did, I would've made some money this morning.
If you truly believe it, throw your next paycheck on it.
That's funny. I feel the same way every time some bitcoin fanboy mentions fiat currency, deflationary currency, any a myriad of other phrases, all while acting like bitcoin is some magic pill to cure all that ails you even though they don't seem to understand what the ailment is,
Probably true, every side has its idiots. The difference is that even if you don't understand blockchain, the bitcoin fanboys are getting rich off it. What are the tulip fanboys getting for their effort?
Use cases are abstract. It's all theory. Who accepts cryptocurrency?
Banks already use it for interbank transactions, here is a new crypto backed by a government to transact units of energy, and this is another specifically for Internet of Things which is supported by Cisco, Bosch, and Foxconn.
This is real, right now today and isn't going away
The way things are going, who even understands it? Who even bothers?
Just like cars in 1900's, or TVs in 1940,'s or the internet in 1990's you mean?
That argument never works out well with new innovative technology.
In this theoretical world, how do I use the cryptocurrency? What's the economics? .
Eventually most people won't have to understand it, just like they don't understand how PCI-DSS compliance works for the credit card they use everyday now.
Right now there is a technological barrier to entry, just like the Internet in 1990 was hard. But the people who build and support the technology, and the applications that let regular people benefit from the technology will profit from it, just like every other major technology breakthrough in history.
How? I have seen this said too and it doesnâ(TM)t really make sense. Itâ(TM)s a nice little game and games have value but I donâ(TM)t see it as something significant to be disruptive.
So because you don't understand it, it can't be real?
I see Bitcoin as a very poor currency.
Don't get caught up with just Bitcoin. There's thousands of other coins and tokens out there that all have different strengths and weaknesses.
And they great thing with crypto currency it is software, so if you do identify a weakness, you can modify it to fix it (as BTC is about to do with the lightning network)
It has limited, non-replaceable units, and inefficient transactions.
Like gold? BTC will probably not replace cash, but it could very well serve as a good replacement for Gold. There are however many many other crypto coins that could replace cash. This is the great thing, rather than just cash, you can design a transaction network specifically whatever you are dealing in. We just had one here backed by our govt built purely to transact units of energy in the electricity generation sector. Another one was specifically for identity transactions to replace govt issued ID. The applications are endless.
. But as a society do we really not trust the records office enough to say that we as participants in the market ALL have to agree with on every ownership change of said assets? Seems overkill.
It's the same argument as imperialism vs democracy. Do you not trust your king to act in your best interests? The technology now exists where we no longer have to rely on a central authority to validate a transaction. This is extremely powerful and will change the way we do things. This is why it is generating a lot of interest.
That is nothing more than another tool to control the economy
Like the GFC. You'll excuse me and millions of others if we don't want to buy into that...
Whoever wrote that...
Ben Carson wrote it. It says so right there...
I would actually like to short BTC now. At this rate of acceleration it could pop before the day is out.
You can, but we know you won't because we know your type. All talk, no action....
People complain when I mention Tulip Mania,
The problem is that so many people who know nothing about either Tulip Mania or Cryptocurrency throw this phrase around like it's some sort golden pass to predicting the future. And it's getting tedious.
It's at the point where I soon as someone mentions tulips it's like a big flashing sign that says I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about but I'll offer my opinion anyway.
This is going to crash hard, and probably fairly soon, and people will react with "We could not have foreseen this at all!"
And I will be over here, laughing at them.
In the mean time we're all laughing at you. How does that make you feel?
It's perfectly possible that the rich people are offering large sums for small quantities of Bitcoin to push up the price then dumping large quantities when everybody sees it.
(aka: "Pumping and Dumping")
It's possible, but this is true for any market. And you can check volumes one any exchange, so unless you think 'small quantities' is billions of dollars, you hypothesis isn't matching the observations
Remember: Bitcoin only redistributes money, it doesn't ever create anything of tangible value)
A couple of points.
One, regular money only redistributes money yet it is also a thing. So the concept of a thing that redistributes money is proven
Two, Blockchain is better at redistributing money (and more importantly auditable transactions) than existing systems. Think Fax v Email. Three, BTC is only one of 1000+ blockchain type currencies. Other varieties do actually provide different uses such as Power Ledger, which was designed specifically to trade units of energy in the electricity generation market. This is a real thing being used by real people and businesses. There are literally dozens of these types of application that have use.
For a technology site I find it odd that so many people here don't actually understand the technology behind it.
Every time I look at this chart I think: "Tulip bulbs"...
Of course because tulips and decentralised digital currency are exactly the same thing.
of course there is once again no shortage of people telling me this is completely sustainable and will go on forever.
Where are these people? I read a bit about Cryptocurrency, and I've never seen anyone ever say that.
What they do say is that decentralised currency is disruptive, and in a currency market worth trillions, so the potential market of such a technology is in the trillions of dollars. BTC is currently about $300B MCAP, so if you follow the logic there is more room for growth.
But go back to tulips if that is more your level...
I pay ~$14 ($100 HKD) to wire any amount of money, anywhere, and it is guaranteed/confirmed within 1 business day. That's not frictionless? Log in on my phone, enter the amount, enter the recipient's account, and push a button. Done.
At what exchange rate? I send money around a little bit, the 'no fees' line mean they rape you on the rate they give you.
Another issue is why do you accept 1 business day as ok? So you send on a Friday you have to wait until at least Monday? Blockchain transactions are done in seconds anywhere in the world. Last issue is if for whatever reason your local government decides they don't want to allow you to use your money how you see fit, what are your alternatives.
Decentralised currency has use cases. And while those use cases exist there will be a market.
Yep..and again....EVERY job is NOT a job one makes their sole livelihood from....
And with stuff like Patreon, most all it takes is your extra time doing something you likely would be doing for free as that you like it.
And more importantly, the Internet is global, "Federal minimum wage" only applies to one country which also happens to be the wealthiest nation on earth.
So for the other 200 odd countries that also have Internet, maybe those economics don't apply.
One guy I follow on Patreon lives in Brazil and said in one of his videos that he now makes enough to make a living from it. $7.25 USD an hour is a lot when your country's minimum wage $10/day.
You still up for it? Knowing your "good life" will likely mean living alone in a small, filthy cage with an unending supply of food, and a distracted slaughter that you probably won't be conscious for as puberty begins to slow down?
Maybe where you live has lower standard of living both for humans and animals. Where I live, cows and sheep roam free in paddocks. Not a bad life compared to a lot of other species.