To be fair, I have seen coverage with this perspective. The poor, war savaged country. The way in which the Taliban rose to power and the citizens of the nation feeling all of the fallout.
Most of the people I speak to do distinguish between the Taliban, ben Ladin and the people. So I think there may be hope!
Of course I'm emotional. I have cried every day since last Tuesday. I cry for a world that has been damaged. Go visit the smoldering crater in NY or Washington, or PA and tell me not to be emotional. But the actions I would like to see our country take has completely to do with stopping terrosism and promoting democracy. And these are not on the agenda of many people in the world. So I respecfully say... wake up or you will be slaughtered in your sleep!
How is "Regaining a homeland" by pushing the people currently living there into the sea not = to destroying Israel? You can't have it both ways (since there is one land). You are mistaken if you think that Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran would withdraw their declaration of war on Israel even if the Palastinians were completely at peace with Israel (which, incidentally, is a dream of mine). They are not linked in any way. I don't hate Arab countries and destroying there countries is not on the US agenda last time I checked. But destruction of Israel (not the label of a nation but the actual people living there) is on their agenda as is fostering terrorism, nuclear capability, oppresion of minorities and woman (just to name a few). Given the opportunity, they would LOVE to export these values to the U.S. (and for sure they have to other places) - by force!
You have distorted my distinction between the people I hate and don't hate. I said "I think feeling hate for people that relish death and distruction is appropriate". So please don't exagerate my position to help you make a point that has nothing to do with my statement.
I agree that we are too dependent on oil for our way of life and that we take it for granted. We certainly don't take interest in foreign policy (or national policy - or any policy for that matter). Americans are not politically active compared to other democracies. Certainly we were protecting our economic interests in Kuwait, but what would Iraq's occupation of Kuwait meant for the people that live there? Do you think Iraq would have just realized that they shouldn't invade other countries and withdrawn?
Yes we are all people... but we are not all alike. Thousands of years of recorded history show that people simply do not value the same things. Go up to a terrorist and shake his hand and tell him you love him... and watch in horror when he cuts your throat with a smile on his face. Your love means nothing to him. Your "lets be buddies" approach is naive. Just ask the millions of civilians that were hearded to their death on WWII. They could not imagine the evil involved and neither can you.
I don't want to erase anybody that doesn't want to erase me. I have never hurt anybody on purpose. Sure the U.S. has looked after its own interests. Certainly the rest of the world has reason to resent us. But destabilizing a country with fear and destruction is not the correct way to deal with this. Responding with thought AND force if necessary is appropriate.
It could easily be argued that the loss of life and $$$ in this country in the past week exceeds anything that we could have possibly done to these people. And we can't even hug and make up because they don't want a dialog.
Can you explain what you mean by the U.S. "revising a couple of items on its foreign policy". Except for Egypt and Jordan, every Arab country is at war with Israel and wants its complete destruction - "pushing them into the sea" is how they put it. Is this one we should go along with.
Many Arab nations want to build a nuclear arsenal to accomplish that - we have backed Israeli operations to slow or stop this effort. Would you like to see Iraq using Kuwaits oil fields to gather the $$$ to build a nuclear capability?
I, for one, am happy we meddled in that particular affair.
I think its easy to speak hypothetically - lets all be friends - lets help eachother - love your neighbor as yourself. But how do you love someone who wants you dead. Wouldn't that be loving your neighbor BETTER then yourself.
If you don't think that our destruction (or conversion) is their ultimate goal - think again - take a look at the Crusades to understand the glory of religous war that they are feeling, and take a look at how the citizens of these nations are treated to understand how our destruction would mean nothing to them.
I think feeling hate for people that relish death and distruction is appropriate, and Bush and co. were not telling us something we weren't already feeling. If he had substituted Iraq, Iran, Syria or a dozen other nations most Americans would have felt the same hatred - why? because these countries DO sponsor terrorism.
No one (except a new born baby) is innocent in this world. We should always be looking at our behavior (and questioning our leadership) always. But a senseless act of cruelty is not going to be my motivation for feeling we need to tweak are foreign policy. I have believed that are economic sanctions are devastating many innocent people and that the average citizen in this country is unaware of the damage they inflict. But is that what this is really about???
Would any terrorist be convicted in a law court?
on
A New Kind of War
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· Score: 1
I was wondering how much of the evidence and "story" dies with the suicide bombers? On a gut level I feel that the Taliban knows that a court case would demonstrate how impotent our form of justice (western courts of law) is. You can't convict someone for being an inspiration to others.
And since he cannot be considered a general of an army of a country then I don't believe that he can be convicted of acts against humanity because he told someone he knows to give someone else he knows some money - his understanding being that he was giving to a good cause - nothing more.
I would love to see our justice system do him in but I'm afraid it ain't going to happen that way.
Sura Al-Baqarah 2:221
"Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise."
Interesting how the message seems to be addressed to men - was/is the koran for men?
Are the terrorist themselves afraid that their religion is being degraded in the U.S. because of interfaith marriage?
Did you hear Bush reading excerpts from the Koran. He was trying to make the case that the Koran could not be interpreted to condone acts of violance. I guess he didn't read it from cover-to-cover:)
Slashdot Mirror
To be fair, I have seen coverage with this perspective. The poor, war savaged country. The way in which the Taliban rose to power and the citizens of the nation feeling all of the fallout.
Most of the people I speak to do distinguish between the Taliban, ben Ladin and the people. So I think there may be hope!
Of course I'm emotional. I have cried every day since last Tuesday. I cry for a world that has been damaged. Go visit the smoldering crater in NY or Washington, or PA and tell me not to be emotional. But the actions I would like to see our country take has completely to do with stopping terrosism and promoting democracy. And these are not on the agenda of many people in the world. So I respecfully say... wake up or you will be slaughtered in your sleep!
How is "Regaining a homeland" by pushing the people currently living there into the sea not = to destroying Israel? You can't have it both ways (since there is one land). You are mistaken if you think that Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran would withdraw their declaration of war on Israel even if the Palastinians were completely at peace with Israel (which, incidentally, is a dream of mine). They are not linked in any way. I don't hate Arab countries and destroying there countries is not on the US agenda last time I checked. But destruction of Israel (not the label of a nation but the actual people living there) is on their agenda as is fostering terrorism, nuclear capability, oppresion of minorities and woman (just to name a few). Given the opportunity, they would LOVE to export these values to the U.S. (and for sure they have to other places) - by force!
You have distorted my distinction between the people I hate and don't hate. I said "I think feeling hate for people that relish death and distruction is appropriate". So please don't exagerate my position to help you make a point that has nothing to do with my statement.
I agree that we are too dependent on oil for our way of life and that we take it for granted. We certainly don't take interest in foreign policy (or national policy - or any policy for that matter). Americans are not politically active compared to other democracies. Certainly we were protecting our economic interests in Kuwait, but what would Iraq's occupation of Kuwait meant for the people that live there? Do you think Iraq would have just realized that they shouldn't invade other countries and withdrawn?
Yes we are all people... but we are not all alike. Thousands of years of recorded history show that people simply do not value the same things. Go up to a terrorist and shake his hand and tell him you love him... and watch in horror when he cuts your throat with a smile on his face. Your love means nothing to him. Your "lets be buddies" approach is naive. Just ask the millions of civilians that were hearded to their death on WWII. They could not imagine the evil involved and neither can you.
I don't want to erase anybody that doesn't want to erase me. I have never hurt anybody on purpose. Sure the U.S. has looked after its own interests. Certainly the rest of the world has reason to resent us. But destabilizing a country with fear and destruction is not the correct way to deal with this. Responding with thought AND force if necessary is appropriate.
It could easily be argued that the loss of life and $$$ in this country in the past week exceeds anything that we could have possibly done to these people. And we can't even hug and make up because they don't want a dialog.
Can you explain what you mean by the U.S. "revising a couple of items on its foreign policy". Except for Egypt and Jordan, every Arab country is at war with Israel and wants its complete destruction - "pushing them into the sea" is how they put it. Is this one we should go along with.
Many Arab nations want to build a nuclear arsenal to accomplish that - we have backed Israeli operations to slow or stop this effort. Would you like to see Iraq using Kuwaits oil fields to gather the $$$ to build a nuclear capability?
I, for one, am happy we meddled in that particular affair.
I think its easy to speak hypothetically - lets all be friends - lets help eachother - love your neighbor as yourself. But how do you love someone who wants you dead. Wouldn't that be loving your neighbor BETTER then yourself.
If you don't think that our destruction (or conversion) is their ultimate goal - think again - take a look at the Crusades to understand the glory of religous war that they are feeling, and take a look at how the citizens of these nations are treated to understand how our destruction would mean nothing to them.
I think feeling hate for people that relish death and distruction is appropriate, and Bush and co. were not telling us something we weren't already feeling. If he had substituted Iraq, Iran, Syria or a dozen other nations most Americans would have felt the same hatred - why? because these countries DO sponsor terrorism.
No one (except a new born baby) is innocent in this world. We should always be looking at our behavior (and questioning our leadership) always. But a senseless act of cruelty is not going to be my motivation for feeling we need to tweak are foreign policy. I have believed that are economic sanctions are devastating many innocent people and that the average citizen in this country is unaware of the damage they inflict. But is that what this is really about???
I was wondering how much of the evidence and "story" dies with the suicide bombers? On a gut level I feel that the Taliban knows that a court case would demonstrate how impotent our form of justice (western courts of law) is. You can't convict someone for being an inspiration to others.
And since he cannot be considered a general of an army of a country then I don't believe that he can be convicted of acts against humanity because he told someone he knows to give someone else he knows some money - his understanding being that he was giving to a good cause - nothing more.
I would love to see our justice system do him in but I'm afraid it ain't going to happen that way.
Sura Al-Baqarah 2:221
"Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise."
Interesting how the message seems to be addressed to men - was/is the koran for men?
Are the terrorist themselves afraid that their religion is being degraded in the U.S. because of interfaith marriage?
Did you hear Bush reading excerpts from the Koran. He was trying to make the case that the Koran could not be interpreted to condone acts of violance. I guess he didn't read it from cover-to-cover :)