The problem is, those who advocate teaching "Computer Ethics" are doing so not because they are concerned for childrens' welfare. They are doing so because Microsoft, and whoever else, is losing money. Not a good reason to establish a "morals" regimen in schools.
Similarly, a "conservative" public radio wouldn't be streaming ogg vorbis. You'd more likely get a nice, corporate-friendly wma stream, or some other closed, proprietary standard (a helping hand to the "private sector").
And this is off-topic exactly how? Because a cracksmoking moderator disagrees with it...
Yeah, a lot of ISPs seem to think they'll get better quality tech support if they make working conditions intolerable. The outfit I work for learned that wasn't so, but it took a long while.
seems like EVERYONE got a new computer with XP on it.. ugh
You should be glad...our call center is not part of the ISP, we are "outsourcing providers." The XP calls have been shifted to another center that is more "cost-effective" -- hence the slow day. (The other center might be you guys, if you are in Canada.) We half-expect that it's a prelude to getting fully shafted, the layoffs have been coming hot'n'heavy here.
If commercial radio stations are going to wait for "pitchmen" to arrive to sell them on ogg vorbis, it's going to be a long wait. The open source movement doesn't have a skank-and-crank budget like the record promotors do.
In two generations, nearly everyone is going to be using computers to a large degree, and a high percentage more than is current will be very familiar with them, and with the concept of critical thinking.
Good point, in that early exposure to the information overload that is the Internet practically forces critical thinking as a survival tactic!
Actually, your opinions are mostly LCD...I dn't know why you expect flames.
We are on the same side of this issue, nevertheless, a couple of things you said rubbed me entirely the wrong way.
My Neighbour Totoro doesn't even have a story. Or conflict. In fact, it's aimed at people about 6 years old, and is just a strange sequence of random events.
You apparently can't recognize story elements when they bite you on the arse. From the initial frames, when we see that this family has no Mom, we are into the story, which is essentially about kids separated from a parent. Without that unifying theme, this would be a much less-great film.
Nobody should enjoy WATCHING something that much, you should save your fanaticism for creating things
Admittedly you didn't say it, but you agreed with it.
I've been that road; I'm in my mid-fifties now, and in the past I've edited several nationally-distributed magazines, had literally hundreds of magazine articles published, and have screenwriting credits on two produced films.
At this point in my life, I barely have the energy to create a good piss; I've had more than enough of poorly-compensated work that buys fancy sportscars for a publisher or producer. I work in tech support, and I write for pleasure on occasion, but mostly I don't write, I read and watch and enjoy. Who the hell are you to tell me that's wrong? Or to tell anyone, even if they've never "created?" Every-fucking-body has to be "creative" suddenly, and if you're not, well the world won't respect you? F___ that!
Hey, AC, you can't get away with such a brief statement!!!
Where and how? My understanding was that Disney was running away in fear, and the link you provided only indicates French and Japanese release dates. Is there an English dubbed version?
Vastly different topics/genres, true, but heavily weighted toward features and Miyazaki; it's like including 7 Disney films in a sum-up of American animation, and neglecting stuff like The Simpsons, South Park or Animaniacs. TV Anime has a lot of worthy "junk-food" titles that measure up well to the American titles I mentioned, like:
Excel Saga: In the first minutes of the series, the super-hyper heroine Excel is run over by a truck. Death is a frequent and very elstic occurence throughout this series about two young women who are devoted to the proto-Fascist Il Parazzo; the three together comprise the secret organization Across. The overall tone of the series is similar to early (comic-book format) Mad magazine. Try episode 16 (or perhaps 17, not really sure), where Excel travels to Los Angeles to try to learn the secrets of the American animation industry. A US release of the first 5 eps on DVD is imminent.
Fushigi Yuugi (Mysterious Play): A fantasy "soap opera" and love story about a middle school student who is swallowed by a book, and becomes embroiled in a historical fantasy themed to ancient Chinese astrology. Eventually, the world of the book spills over into real life. The anime equivalent of a "chick-flick," but it does achieve a "fantasy epic" feel that overcomes its limited animation. The 52-episode series faithfully followed the plot of the popular manga.
Jungle wa Itsumo Hale nochi Guu: A series that takes what is alien about anime in the first place, and raises it to an exponential level. Hale is a video-game-addicted youngster; his Mom is a borderline alcoholic who has adopted a young girl who, known only to Hale, has alien-like (possibly supernatural) powers.
Noir: Kirika, a young woman with no memories, is united with Mirielle, a paid assassin haunted by her past. Kirika's only belongings are an id card, and a watch that bears ancient symbols of the secret society known as "Soldats" -- the same society responsible for the murder of Mirielle's parents. Kirika, for reasons she can't fathom, is as skilled at the tasks of assassination as the more experienced Mirielle, and the two go into business together as paid assassins, under the name "Noir." When evidence starts to emerge that Kirika was involved in her parents' deaths, Mirielle agrees to help Kirika uncover her true self -- and also swears to kill her once that task is accomplished.
Maybe my cultural heritage is different than yours
Perhaps so. My only sharp cultural impression of the German school system is Emil Jannings as Professor Immanuel Rath, chasing kids out of the "Blue Angel" nightclub.
Probably not the most accurate or complete picture possible, but still very different from what we expect of our schools.
The fact that copying is limited by law is not only a corporate-endorsed view, it's the truth: the law is quite clear -- and the law has been put into place by your elected representatives, not by the corporations.
But that was not my question.
The "wrong or right," "legal or illegal," "justifiable or not" aspect of this is the least important. The article in the Times starts with the assumption that piracy, sharing or whatever you wish to call it, is bad/wrong/illegal.
So let's accept that premise. What chills me about the article is the attitude taken that we aren't educating children to the "moral" use of computers. That is the issue that this article raises, and few here are addressing. This petty squabbling about moral relativism and absolutes will never be resolved.
But I think that most of us can agree that charging the schools to drum some secular morality into children's heads is a bad idea -- and that is what the article proposes.
What you need to ask yourself is, what sort of program is the Times recommending be undertaken in schools? What "morals" regarding IP do want to see drilled into their little heads?
Regardless of whether you think "piracy/stealing/sharing" is "wrong/right/relative," what is your feeling about the schools taking up moral education, particular when it is moral education motivated by the needs of the Intellectual Property industry?
Because that's what is on the table. The other arguments here are mere distraction.
I'm at a national ISP call center, waiting for any of the phone agents to tell me they can't figure out what's wrong with a caller's connection. Should that happen, I will swing into action, with advice, references and, if necessary, escalation to a higher tech level.
Been waiting 4 hours for something to happen....shift is half-done.
For a Public Radio station, everytime I listen to them, they sure to seem to be left leaning
"Public" radio wouldn't exist if conservative Republicans were to decide the issue, they like "private sector" solutions. So why be surprised that the government-employed workers at public stations display a bias toward the concept that governments have social obligations (the "left-Demo" view)?
Similarly, a "conservative" public radio wouldn't be streaming ogg vorbis. You'd more likely get a nice, corporate-friendly wma stream, or some other closed, proprietary standard (a helping hand to the "private sector").
Personally, I haven't broken a software license in 10 years...
This has to be hyperbole. If it isn't, then you are the only person I have ever encountered who has read an entire software license in ten years, let alone remembered every provision of each one of them.
Or, when you say you haven't violated any licenses, are you stating that you haven't violated what you assume the license to be?
If, for instance, you ever took a laptop across any national border, you have violated export provisions that are quite common, unless you checked all your licenses and then uninstalled the "problem" programs.
If you've ever installed the same program on both a laptop and a desktop from the same disks, you may have violated a license..do you always check?
Have you ever opened an ".ini" file to view settings on a windows program? Gee, you may have violated "reverse engineering" prohibitions.
I could probably come up with more, but I would have to actually read a license to do so.
I think those who copy software illegally because they need it for some reason and can afford to buy it should be punished to the extent possible under current law...we would soon see a tremendous increase in manpower available in Free Software projects, and even if it's just users reporting bugs and making suggestions.
So you think that moral/legal issues should be determined according to how they fit in with your petty agenda, is that right?
Most everyone posting is missing the point of the article, which is not "is piracy bad?" -- it's "piracy is bad, and our children need to be 'educated' that it is bad."
So where does the "moral education" of children into corporate-endorsed views fit in your agenda, hmmm?
There is also a (very good) Cowboy Bebop feature film, "Knockin' On Heaven's Door," which was released in Japan last summer. (Chronology nitpickers: timewise, it is set between episodes 22 and 23 of the series.)
There is an Official English-language Website, but no apparent details of a US release (I was able to find a very nice-quality subtitled dub on Usenet).
You are defining "sharing" to fit your argument without really thinking about it. When law enforcement agencies decide to "share information" on a case, they don't suffer a depletion of information. Same when researchers "share research." And this is the case with the sharing of any commodity that is not subject to scarcity (like bits).
Its not like developers get paid billions, no, some CEOs and guys in suits do. Same with the RIAA, So its not about right or wrong, its a matter of, should we be getting this money? or should some rich guys in suits be getting this money?
This kind of reasoning (some would say rationalization) is exactly what the article wants to stamp out.
Without even stepping into the unresovlable argument of reasoning vs. rationalization, what alarms me about the article is its unquestioning advocacy of "educating" young computer users to think in a certain way that is to be determined by corporate interests. The question of whether widespread piracy is a moral blight is trivial compared to this article's radical advocacy of implanting corporate moral imperatives in our youth.
You have to grant that moral complexity plus promises of lotsa "free stuff" opens a big old doorway toward the rationalization of theft. Since the ownership of a bitstream is counter-intuitive, it won't be simple to have kids subscribe to the idea. But is the answer to this brainwashing kids into a "stealing is bad" moral reflex?
What kids need to be taught is logic and critical thinking, rather than receive drill in corporate-endorsed moral standards. While we may get just as much software piracy, we might hear some better rationalizations than those quoted in the article; and maybe the next generation will get copyright laws that make sense for the times.
Slashdot Mirror
Everybody keeps mentioning Japan...so where is all the high-def anime?
I can't quite go along with that argument.
The problem is, those who advocate teaching "Computer Ethics" are doing so not because they are concerned for childrens' welfare. They are doing so because Microsoft, and whoever else, is losing money. Not a good reason to establish a "morals" regimen in schools.
And this is off-topic exactly how? Because a cracksmoking moderator disagrees with it...
Yeah, a lot of ISPs seem to think they'll get better quality tech support if they make working conditions intolerable. The outfit I work for learned that wasn't so, but it took a long while.
You should be glad...our call center is not part of the ISP, we are "outsourcing providers." The XP calls have been shifted to another center that is more "cost-effective" -- hence the slow day. (The other center might be you guys, if you are in Canada.) We half-expect that it's a prelude to getting fully shafted, the layoffs have been coming hot'n'heavy here.
I wholly agree, you've got to read at -1 now and then to get the full benefit!
If commercial radio stations are going to wait for "pitchmen" to arrive to sell them on ogg vorbis, it's going to be a long wait. The open source movement doesn't have a skank-and-crank budget like the record promotors do.
Someone moderated this as off-topic? It was in reply to a complaint about tech support, and tech support is what I am doing here on Chtristmas day!
Next time read the parent you crack-crazed moderator! Thanks for the Christmas gift, putz!
Good point, in that early exposure to the information overload that is the Internet practically forces critical thinking as a survival tactic!
I hope your optimistic spin is the right one.
Actually, your opinions are mostly LCD...I dn't know why you expect flames.
We are on the same side of this issue, nevertheless, a couple of things you said rubbed me entirely the wrong way.
My Neighbour Totoro doesn't even have a story. Or conflict. In fact, it's aimed at people about 6 years old, and is just a strange sequence of random events.
You apparently can't recognize story elements when they bite you on the arse. From the initial frames, when we see that this family has no Mom, we are into the story, which is essentially about kids separated from a parent. Without that unifying theme, this would be a much less-great film.
Nobody should enjoy WATCHING something that much, you should save your fanaticism for creating things
Admittedly you didn't say it, but you agreed with it.
I've been that road; I'm in my mid-fifties now, and in the past I've edited several nationally-distributed magazines, had literally hundreds of magazine articles published, and have screenwriting credits on two produced films.
At this point in my life, I barely have the energy to create a good piss; I've had more than enough of poorly-compensated work that buys fancy sportscars for a publisher or producer. I work in tech support, and I write for pleasure on occasion, but mostly I don't write, I read and watch and enjoy. Who the hell are you to tell me that's wrong? Or to tell anyone, even if they've never "created?" Every-fucking-body has to be "creative" suddenly, and if you're not, well the world won't respect you? F___ that!
I just caught Miyazaki's latest film
Hey, AC, you can't get away with such a brief statement!!!
Where and how? My understanding was that Disney was running away in fear, and the link you provided only indicates French and Japanese release dates. Is there an English dubbed version?
Vastly different topics/genres, true, but heavily weighted toward features and Miyazaki; it's like including 7 Disney films in a sum-up of American animation, and neglecting stuff like The Simpsons, South Park or Animaniacs. TV Anime has a lot of worthy "junk-food" titles that measure up well to the American titles I mentioned, like:
Excel Saga : In the first minutes of the series, the super-hyper heroine Excel is run over by a truck. Death is a frequent and very elstic occurence throughout this series about two young women who are devoted to the proto-Fascist Il Parazzo; the three together comprise the secret organization Across. The overall tone of the series is similar to early (comic-book format) Mad magazine. Try episode 16 (or perhaps 17, not really sure), where Excel travels to Los Angeles to try to learn the secrets of the American animation industry. A US release of the first 5 eps on DVD is imminent.
Fushigi Yuugi (Mysterious Play) : A fantasy "soap opera" and love story about a middle school student who is swallowed by a book, and becomes embroiled in a historical fantasy themed to ancient Chinese astrology. Eventually, the world of the book spills over into real life. The anime equivalent of a "chick-flick," but it does achieve a "fantasy epic" feel that overcomes its limited animation. The 52-episode series faithfully followed the plot of the popular manga.
Jungle wa Itsumo Hale nochi Guu : A series that takes what is alien about anime in the first place, and raises it to an exponential level. Hale is a video-game-addicted youngster; his Mom is a borderline alcoholic who has adopted a young girl who, known only to Hale, has alien-like (possibly supernatural) powers.
Noir : Kirika, a young woman with no memories, is united with Mirielle, a paid assassin haunted by her past. Kirika's only belongings are an id card, and a watch that bears ancient symbols of the secret society known as "Soldats" -- the same society responsible for the murder of Mirielle's parents. Kirika, for reasons she can't fathom, is as skilled at the tasks of assassination as the more experienced Mirielle, and the two go into business together as paid assassins, under the name "Noir." When evidence starts to emerge that Kirika was involved in her parents' deaths, Mirielle agrees to help Kirika uncover her true self -- and also swears to kill her once that task is accomplished.
Perhaps so. My only sharp cultural impression of the German school system is Emil Jannings as Professor Immanuel Rath, chasing kids out of the "Blue Angel" nightclub.
Probably not the most accurate or complete picture possible, but still very different from what we expect of our schools.
But that was not my question.
The "wrong or right," "legal or illegal," "justifiable or not" aspect of this is the least important. The article in the Times starts with the assumption that piracy, sharing or whatever you wish to call it, is bad/wrong/illegal.
So let's accept that premise. What chills me about the article is the attitude taken that we aren't educating children to the "moral" use of computers. That is the issue that this article raises, and few here are addressing. This petty squabbling about moral relativism and absolutes will never be resolved.
But I think that most of us can agree that charging the schools to drum some secular morality into children's heads is a bad idea -- and that is what the article proposes.
What you need to ask yourself is, what sort of program is the Times recommending be undertaken in schools? What "morals" regarding IP do want to see drilled into their little heads?
Regardless of whether you think "piracy/stealing/sharing" is "wrong/right/relative," what is your feeling about the schools taking up moral education, particular when it is moral education motivated by the needs of the Intellectual Property industry?
Because that's what is on the table. The other arguments here are mere distraction.
We are good, old-fashioned dial-up.
No outages today, system status reads clear and was updated the last hour. (And is borne out by the tiny trickle of calls we are getting.)
Then why doesn't Asimov claim authorship in his essay "Magic," discussing the Clarke quote?
It appears in a posthumous anthology of the same name.
I'm at a national ISP call center, waiting for any of the phone agents to tell me they can't figure out what's wrong with a caller's connection. Should that happen, I will swing into action, with advice, references and, if necessary, escalation to a higher tech level.
Been waiting 4 hours for something to happen....shift is half-done.
"Public" radio wouldn't exist if conservative Republicans were to decide the issue, they like "private sector" solutions. So why be surprised that the government-employed workers at public stations display a bias toward the concept that governments have social obligations (the "left-Demo" view)?
Similarly, a "conservative" public radio wouldn't be streaming ogg vorbis. You'd more likely get a nice, corporate-friendly wma stream, or some other closed, proprietary standard (a helping hand to the "private sector").
This has to be hyperbole. If it isn't, then you are the only person I have ever encountered who has read an entire software license in ten years, let alone remembered every provision of each one of them.
Or, when you say you haven't violated any licenses, are you stating that you haven't violated what you assume the license to be?
If, for instance, you ever took a laptop across any national border, you have violated export provisions that are quite common, unless you checked all your licenses and then uninstalled the "problem" programs.
If you've ever installed the same program on both a laptop and a desktop from the same disks, you may have violated a license..do you always check?
Have you ever opened an ".ini" file to view settings on a windows program? Gee, you may have violated "reverse engineering" prohibitions.
I could probably come up with more, but I would have to actually read a license to do so.
So you think that moral/legal issues should be determined according to how they fit in with your petty agenda, is that right?
Most everyone posting is missing the point of the article, which is not "is piracy bad?" -- it's "piracy is bad, and our children need to be 'educated' that it is bad."
So where does the "moral education" of children into corporate-endorsed views fit in your agenda, hmmm?
There is also a (very good) Cowboy Bebop feature film, "Knockin' On Heaven's Door," which was released in Japan last summer. (Chronology nitpickers: timewise, it is set between episodes 22 and 23 of the series.)
There is an Official English-language Website, but no apparent details of a US release (I was able to find a very nice-quality subtitled dub on Usenet).
Or one might download the whole lot from Usenet. Someone started posting the series in alt.binaries.sounds.audiobooks around the 20th.
Unless, of course, you consider that stealing.
You are defining "sharing" to fit your argument without really thinking about it. When law enforcement agencies decide to "share information" on a case, they don't suffer a depletion of information. Same when researchers "share research." And this is the case with the sharing of any commodity that is not subject to scarcity (like bits).
This kind of reasoning (some would say rationalization) is exactly what the article wants to stamp out.
Without even stepping into the unresovlable argument of reasoning vs. rationalization, what alarms me about the article is its unquestioning advocacy of "educating" young computer users to think in a certain way that is to be determined by corporate interests. The question of whether widespread piracy is a moral blight is trivial compared to this article's radical advocacy of implanting corporate moral imperatives in our youth.
You have to grant that moral complexity plus promises of lotsa "free stuff" opens a big old doorway toward the rationalization of theft. Since the ownership of a bitstream is counter-intuitive, it won't be simple to have kids subscribe to the idea. But is the answer to this brainwashing kids into a "stealing is bad" moral reflex?
What kids need to be taught is logic and critical thinking, rather than receive drill in corporate-endorsed moral standards. While we may get just as much software piracy, we might hear some better rationalizations than those quoted in the article; and maybe the next generation will get copyright laws that make sense for the times.
champion gerbileer, sir.