So the main problem is : there is a system which is fair (ie, you pay the tax in your home state, whether you bought there or abroad), but which is not enforced.
There is a lot of fraud, and people don't seem to want to do "by the law". So the question is not whether there should be a new "internet tax" or not. The question is to apply existing law. Or change it.
In Europe, we call the "sale tax" a "value added tax" (VAT). So you might not agree with the concept of tax on "added value". But that's all it is.
Whether the product is sold through the net, though mail order or directly in a shop doesn't change it's price or the way it's taxed.
That's why prices are usually displayed "with VAT included" (about 20%), because except when exporting, everyone pays the VAT.
So, according to me, the way it works in the US is basically flawed. I don't understand why you'd pay tax when you buy something locally, but wouldn't if you order it from a remote place.
Maybe it was meant to subsidize mail order companies, or even the carriers. I don't know.
So I can understand that nobody wants to pay more than they do now. That's a good reason in itself. Most the other ones are basically trying to justify an illogical situation.
As a matter a fact, our company, Axialys Interactive, uses an in-house developed platform called Axiavoice to manage IVR services. We do DTMF navigation, voice synthesisis, voice recognition (these two ones using third party software), and VoiceXML (using OpenVXI).
It works under Linux, and has been used 24/7 for almost two years here. It's now handling 30+ E1 PRIs in our datacenter. That's 900 voice channels.
We use T1/E1 boards that are *way* cheaper that their Dialogic/NMS equivalents.
And the whole thing is 100% open sourced, although we didn't commit a lot of time to publicizing and packaging our stuff.
I wouldn't comment about your website, I'm a little bit biased:)
I wonder if my site is blocked at their border?
No way. No censorship of that kind exists. I guess you can see that in your web server logs. And, as someone suggested earlier, no, telecommunications are not the monopoly of France Telecom anymore, for 3 years at least (and even then no censorship, AFAIK).
These "non-governmental organizations" happen to be pushing the same agenda that the French government is pushing
Is it a joke ?
I doubt they'd appreciate it. Most these organisations are fighting against racial discrimination, and their common targets are police abuse, politicians' opinions, discrimination by government agencies, etc.
These organisations are actually monitored by the government, and if they happen to agree some day with the govt, that's because their activism got rewarded by a law achieveing their goals.
Do you think that anti-racist organisations in the US back in the 60s were really "govt subsidiaries" ??
Here are the last lines from yahoo.fr service usage policy :
Les présentes Conditions d'Utilisation et la relation entre Yahoo! et les utilisateurs seront soumises au droit français et tout différend n'ayant pu trouver une issue transactionnelle sera porté devant les tribunaux compétents de Paris.
"These conditions of usage and the relationship between Yahoo! and users are subject to french law, and any dispute that couldn't be transaction resolved would be taken to Paris' courts."
As far as I know, they don't own property, machines, server space or anything like that in France.
That's wrong. Yahoo is a registred company here in France. And that's why there are responsible in court for the content they provide through yahoo.fr.
how will the French courts enforce it?
Well, I guess they would get financial penalties. Then, if they do not comply (or appeal), the french CEO of yahoo (according to company's registration) would be prosecuted.
Or Yahoo could try to disappear from France as a French company. But then, it couldn't own the "yahoo.fr" domain, which is quite an asset.
There are several things I'd like make clear for/. readers :
- this is not the french govt suing. Yahoo is sued by 2 anti-racist organizations - this is not "France trying to rule the Internet". Yahoo France is a registered company here, and the problem was because these auctions were accessible from the yahoo.fr portal.
I usually don't agree with censorship, neither do I agree with racism or nazism. But due to various immigration and racism problems, France has passed several laws that forbids such things as "incentive to hatred racial" (sorry for the poor translation).
We have most of the same censorship problems that you experience in the US. The rules are simply a little bit different. As our history is.
Lots of things are allowed in France and are not in the US...
Slashdot Mirror
So the main problem is : there is a system which is fair (ie, you pay the tax in your home state, whether you bought there or abroad), but which is not enforced.
There is a lot of fraud, and people don't seem to want to do "by the law". So the question is not whether there should be a new "internet tax" or not. The question is to apply existing law. Or change it.
In Europe, we call the "sale tax" a "value added tax" (VAT). So you might not agree with the concept of tax on "added value". But that's all it is.
Whether the product is sold through the net, though mail order or directly in a shop doesn't change it's price or the way it's taxed.
That's why prices are usually displayed "with VAT included" (about 20%), because except when exporting, everyone pays the VAT.
So, according to me, the way it works in the US is basically flawed. I don't understand why you'd pay tax when you buy something locally, but wouldn't if you order it from a remote place.
Maybe it was meant to subsidize mail order companies, or even the carriers. I don't know.
So I can understand that nobody wants to pay more than they do now. That's a good reason in itself. Most the other ones are basically trying to justify an illogical situation.
As a matter a fact, our company, Axialys Interactive, uses an in-house developed platform called Axiavoice to manage IVR services. We do DTMF navigation, voice synthesisis, voice recognition (these two ones using third party software), and VoiceXML (using OpenVXI).
It works under Linux, and has been used 24/7 for almost two years here. It's now handling 30+ E1 PRIs in our datacenter. That's 900 voice channels.
We use T1/E1 boards that are *way* cheaper that their Dialogic/NMS equivalents.
And the whole thing is 100% open sourced, although we didn't commit a lot of time to publicizing and packaging our stuff.
Check out www.axiavoice.org, or write me (nbougues@axialys.net) if interested.
I wouldn't comment about your website, I'm a little bit biased :)
I wonder if my site is blocked at their border?
No way. No censorship of that kind exists. I guess you can see that in your web server logs. And, as someone suggested earlier, no, telecommunications are not the monopoly of France Telecom anymore, for 3 years at least (and even then no censorship, AFAIK).
These "non-governmental organizations" happen to be pushing the same agenda that the French government is pushing
Is it a joke ?
I doubt they'd appreciate it. Most these organisations are fighting against racial discrimination, and their common targets are police abuse, politicians' opinions, discrimination by government agencies, etc.
These organisations are actually monitored by the government, and if they happen to agree some day with the govt, that's because their activism got rewarded by a law achieveing their goals.
Do you think that anti-racist organisations in the US back in the 60s were really "govt subsidiaries" ??
According to both the referenced articles, these items weren't accessible from yahoo.fr, only from yahoo.com--which yahoo.fr of course links to
Clicking on "Enchères" (auctions) on yahoo.fr brings you directly to the french section of auctions.yahoo.com
From the user point of view, this change is really transparent. Just have a look !
Here are the last lines from yahoo.fr service usage policy :
Les présentes Conditions d'Utilisation et la relation entre Yahoo! et les utilisateurs seront soumises au droit français et tout différend n'ayant pu trouver une issue transactionnelle sera porté devant les tribunaux compétents de Paris.
"These conditions of usage and the relationship between Yahoo! and users are subject to french law, and any dispute that couldn't be transaction resolved would be taken to Paris' courts."
That cristal clear, I believe.
As far as I know, they don't own property, machines, server space or anything like that in France.
That's wrong. Yahoo is a registred company here in France. And that's why there are responsible in court for the content they provide through yahoo.fr.
how will the French courts enforce it?
Well, I guess they would get financial penalties. Then, if they do not comply (or appeal), the french CEO of yahoo (according to company's registration) would be prosecuted.
Or Yahoo could try to disappear from France as a French company. But then, it couldn't own the "yahoo.fr" domain, which is quite an asset.
There are several things I'd like make clear for /. readers :
- this is not the french govt suing. Yahoo is sued by 2 anti-racist organizations
- this is not "France trying to rule the Internet". Yahoo France is a registered company here, and the problem was because these auctions were accessible from the yahoo.fr portal.
I usually don't agree with censorship, neither do I agree with racism or nazism. But due to various immigration and racism problems, France has passed several laws that forbids such things as "incentive to hatred racial" (sorry for the poor translation).
We have most of the same censorship problems that you experience in the US. The rules are simply a little bit different. As our history is.
Lots of things are allowed in France and are not in the US...