The initial poster had asked how 9/11 has affected us, and I was going to say "well, in my day-to-day life, not much at all actually. I still go to the store for groceries,etc". But then I stopped and considered the 4th of July weekend. On that weekend my 9 year old son & I, drove cross-country with my mother- helping her move to another state for a job. For our return trip, we flew.
What is the relevance? When I was 9-ish and flew for the first time, I got a nifty package of stuff, including one of those cheap plastic pins that is a set of 'wings'. What did my son get? Nada. The co-pilot of the small connecting flight into Denver did wish him well and hoped he would have a nice flight. But none of the airlines gives out the pins to kids for their first plane-flight. it is no longer "the custom". Being only 9 and really really excited to be flying in a big plane quickly overcame his disappointment in not getting the pin. My husband, however, the previous year (prior to 9/11 by merely a month or two) was able to procure a pin to bring home for our son. So you tell me, do they think terrorists are going to seize the box of Wings and use them to take down the plane? get real.
As an added bonus- because we were flying on one-way tickets we both got to get the special wanding and having our shoes xrayed as well. Despite the fact that we were obviously a rather pregnant mom wearing sandals, and a very excited little boy who couldn't wait to take a picture of the 'very first plane he was getting to fly in'. There is just a computerized system that randomly spits things out.
Trivial yes. But an indicator of how utterly absurd some of these "security measures" are.
Snatching our nail clippers and doing random security checks isn't going to stop people who want to do destructive things. They'll just use something that isn't being checked for. They'll find some other method of attack. They'll not use a plane. And they will prey on peoples' fears of being attacked.
I pity those who live in fear, I pity those who are so afraid of terrorism that they willingly agree to let the First Amendment be trashed.
I feel sadness to know that people who have been Americans their entire lives, have travelled out of country on vacation, and are being detained for days upon re-entry. Because their ethnic background is of one Arabic nationality or another. Racial profiling is now the Accepted Mode of Operations. (did it ever really go away to begin with?) How pathetic.
I read this slew of posts, and see all the emotional baggage that people have. The finger-pointing, the name-calling. The rampant bigotry and hatred. For what? What does this accomplish?
I may not be able to waltz into D.C. and force some changes, there are only a 'select few' who have that type of power & priviledge. But I can look into my own community and make the effort to foster the sense of equality. To not edge away from someone in the grocery store because they happen to be of Arabic descent. I can teach my kids to respect another individual and their right to hold their own set of beliefs. That violence isn't the first answer to a problem. I can connect with other generations by being involved with Youth Mentoring programs, or assist at the local Senior Citizen's Center. I can vote, sit in a jury even though the pay you get is inadequate compensation of wages. Go to city council meetings and let my voice be heard. Feedback from situations like those do trickle up the chain of politics- but only if we all get off our collective asses and actually get involved.
So, how has 9/11 affected my life? It has been the 'final straw' that has slowly overcome my willingness to live complacently in a state of non-involvement in my community, state, country. Am I some sort of militant, highly active, super-mom participant? no-.... I'm too much of a procrastinator. But I at least have a better idea of exactly what I 'can' do, and some goals in place for actually 'doing' those things.
The only fear I live with, is that of not knowing what goofy freedom-removing thing the government will do next. Whether it is to its own people, or the people of some other nation.
And something to keep in mind, is that not all American citizens approve of the way things are going, have gone, and currently exist.
It is hard to balance two opposing emotions within one's self. The shame of being a USA citizen due to policies of the government & the bigoted prejudiced attitudes of many of the citizens; while at the same time being proud of being a USA citizen because of average ordinary people who had a dream of improving their life, came here, and actually put in the back-breaking effort to achieve it.
I have moments when all I want to do is LEAVE. And then I look at other countries and they have their 'issues' as well. Different from ours in many cases. But I am forced to stop and think about the fact that there is no Utopia. And then my task is to see what I can do to create a little bit of positivity in my own small sphere of influence.
compassion. tolerance. peace. spending money not on nuclear weaponry- but on researching non-radioactive-waste-inducing energy sources. spending money not on Standing Armies, but redistributing the vast surplusses of food crops to areas of the world suffering through drought and famine. allowing the peoples of the world to find a harmony of co-existence with religious ideals that are at odds with the other.
Idealistic? yeah. I know. Don't be concerned for me though, I operate on a daily basis with a healthy dose of jaded cynicism. And I honestly do not see the USA making moves towards those directions for a loooong time to come.
Out of all this garbage that has happened since the initial WTC disaster- one thing has stood out in my mind. The former NYC Mayor Guiliani rocking the boat and making waves by telling America that the proper and right thing to do is to make the entire area into a Memorial- rather than "redeveloping it". In honoring the people who got caught up in the tides of politics and died unnecessarily.
ok. yeah, this probably isn't the best of days to be posting and ranting and such. I think I'll go water my flower that wilted, pet my cats, and do something low-stress.
Heh. The first movie I ever got to see, was Charlotte's Web. In the theater, for one of those "PTA Matinee" series. I think I was 5. My folks let us watch things like Laurence Welk, the Olympics, and other such shows. But not movies. Unless they were of the "G" variety, obviously cartoons or 'family' oriented.
They were not excessively religious people. We didn't get "moral lectures" etc. But until we were in our teens, we didn't get to watch movies rated PG-13. And even then, until we hit high-school, they'd often pre-view movies to see if it was something they really wanted their kids to watch.
Did we suffer? Hell no. I think I saw most of the Disney films by the time I hit junior high. I got to see some of the Classics. I had Saturday Morning Cartoons, and occasional after-school cartoons. (I Was insanely jealous of my friend who got to watch cartoons "on school mornings while eating breakfast".) woooo. heavy stuff. What did I do? I ended up reading every book I could get my hands on. As long as it was in the kids' section of the library, I could check it out. I read so much, that when the folks needed a severe form of punishment to dish out, they'd ground me from reading & take away my books.
I agree with castanaveras, that it isn't difficult to solve the dilemna- if you don't approve of it as a parent, don't let your kids see it. Grow a spine, and Just Say No.
If you run out of movies to watch, why not Read A Book???? now there's a shocking idea.
"But, certain activities, like air travel and border crossings, warrant this type of monitoring."
insanity. It's no one's business who I am or where I go. Crossing borders and travelling by air don't need such intense levels of monitoring. Checking on people entering the USA, yes that is a good idea. Monitoring people when they get on planes, make sure they don't have bombs or knives or such, tolerable. Though air marshalls are more effective.
Terrorism is terrorism. It isn't conventional warfare. It isn't as simple as making a law that is supposed to 'keep us safe'. Terrorists don't care about safety. They're willing to die for their cause. They're happy to die for their cause. For some of them, it becomes a religious experience that brings them closer to their diety. Note I say some, not all. But still, when a person is willing to do ANYthing and DIE for it, they will find a way.
So, how exactly does the USA enforce "smart cards" over the rest of the world? They can't. That leaves the option of closing our borders. Unacceptable. You can't allow trade of commodities to flow in & out of the country without valid ID if you enact such requirements. How many nations are going to be willing to require their citizens to subscribe to Big Brother tactics?
I'd say "if they do that I'm outta here" but the reality is that I'm pretty much stuck where I am for the time being. Besides, there really isn't anywhere to go globally that is any better. There's always a trade-off.
But giving up civil liberties is assinine. This nation was founded on the principle that people have fundamental rights by virtue of being alive, that no government has the right to take away.
Might as well just assume we're all guilty and monitor us 24/7. Install little microchips in our necks. Why stop with a little bit of monitoring?
I agree security needs to be better, but that means security personnel need better training and the espionage branch needs better training. It doesn't mean the average citizen needs to have their whole life open to the government via documents and such.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
--Star Trek: The Next Generation: "The Drumhead"
I personally do not support any limiting of civil liberties. I do not support assuming someone or a group is responsible for something without evidence. What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? So Osama bin Laden has done things in the past to warrant trial. That doesn't mean we as a nation should burn him for the WTC. Proof and trial people. Or was everything this country built on just a sham? Not worth a copper penny?
Slashdot Mirror
Well Spoken.
The initial poster had asked how 9/11 has affected us, and I was going to say "well, in my day-to-day life, not much at all actually. I still go to the store for groceries,etc". But then I stopped and considered the 4th of July weekend. On that weekend my 9 year old son & I, drove cross-country with my mother- helping her move to another state for a job. For our return trip, we flew.
What is the relevance? When I was 9-ish and flew for the first time, I got a nifty package of stuff, including one of those cheap plastic pins that is a set of 'wings'. What did my son get? Nada. The co-pilot of the small connecting flight into Denver did wish him well and hoped he would have a nice flight. But none of the airlines gives out the pins to kids for their first plane-flight. it is no longer "the custom". Being only 9 and really really excited to be flying in a big plane quickly overcame his disappointment in not getting the pin. My husband, however, the previous year (prior to 9/11 by merely a month or two) was able to procure a pin to bring home for our son. So you tell me, do they think terrorists are going to seize the box of Wings and use them to take down the plane? get real.
As an added bonus- because we were flying on one-way tickets we both got to get the special wanding and having our shoes xrayed as well. Despite the fact that we were obviously a rather pregnant mom wearing sandals, and a very excited little boy who couldn't wait to take a picture of the 'very first plane he was getting to fly in'. There is just a computerized system that randomly spits things out.
Trivial yes. But an indicator of how utterly absurd some of these "security measures" are.
Snatching our nail clippers and doing random security checks isn't going to stop people who want to do destructive things. They'll just use something that isn't being checked for. They'll find some other method of attack. They'll not use a plane. And they will prey on peoples' fears of being attacked.
I pity those who live in fear, I pity those who are so afraid of terrorism that they willingly agree to let the First Amendment be trashed.
I feel sadness to know that people who have been Americans their entire lives, have travelled out of country on vacation, and are being detained for days upon re-entry. Because their ethnic background is of one Arabic nationality or another. Racial profiling is now the Accepted Mode of Operations. (did it ever really go away to begin with?) How pathetic.
I read this slew of posts, and see all the emotional baggage that people have. The finger-pointing, the name-calling. The rampant bigotry and hatred. For what? What does this accomplish?
I may not be able to waltz into D.C. and force some changes, there are only a 'select few' who have that type of power & priviledge. But I can look into my own community and make the effort to foster the sense of equality. To not edge away from someone in the grocery store because they happen to be of Arabic descent. I can teach my kids to respect another individual and their right to hold their own set of beliefs. That violence isn't the first answer to a problem. I can connect with other generations by being involved with Youth Mentoring programs, or assist at the local Senior Citizen's Center. I can vote, sit in a jury even though the pay you get is inadequate compensation of wages. Go to city council meetings and let my voice be heard. Feedback from situations like those do trickle up the chain of politics- but only if we all get off our collective asses and actually get involved.
So, how has 9/11 affected my life? It has been the 'final straw' that has slowly overcome my willingness to live complacently in a state of non-involvement in my community, state, country. Am I some sort of militant, highly active, super-mom participant? no-.... I'm too much of a procrastinator. But I at least have a better idea of exactly what I 'can' do, and some goals in place for actually 'doing' those things.
The only fear I live with, is that of not knowing what goofy freedom-removing thing the government will do next. Whether it is to its own people, or the people of some other nation.
And something to keep in mind, is that not all American citizens approve of the way things are going, have gone, and currently exist.
It is hard to balance two opposing emotions within one's self. The shame of being a USA citizen due to policies of the government & the bigoted prejudiced attitudes of many of the citizens; while at the same time being proud of being a USA citizen because of average ordinary people who had a dream of improving their life, came here, and actually put in the back-breaking effort to achieve it.
I have moments when all I want to do is LEAVE. And then I look at other countries and they have their 'issues' as well. Different from ours in many cases. But I am forced to stop and think about the fact that there is no Utopia. And then my task is to see what I can do to create a little bit of positivity in my own small sphere of influence.
compassion. tolerance. peace. spending money not on nuclear weaponry- but on researching non-radioactive-waste-inducing energy sources. spending money not on Standing Armies, but redistributing the vast surplusses of food crops to areas of the world suffering through drought and famine. allowing the peoples of the world to find a harmony of co-existence with religious ideals that are at odds with the other.
Idealistic? yeah. I know. Don't be concerned for me though, I operate on a daily basis with a healthy dose of jaded cynicism. And I honestly do not see the USA making moves towards those directions for a loooong time to come.
Out of all this garbage that has happened since the initial WTC disaster- one thing has stood out in my mind. The former NYC Mayor Guiliani rocking the boat and making waves by telling America that the proper and right thing to do is to make the entire area into a Memorial- rather than "redeveloping it". In honoring the people who got caught up in the tides of politics and died unnecessarily.
ok. yeah, this probably isn't the best of days to be posting and ranting and such. I think I'll go water my flower that wilted, pet my cats, and do something low-stress.
Heh. The first movie I ever got to see, was Charlotte's Web. In the theater, for one of those "PTA Matinee" series. I think I was 5. My folks let us watch things like Laurence Welk, the Olympics, and other such shows. But not movies. Unless they were of the "G" variety, obviously cartoons or 'family' oriented.
They were not excessively religious people. We didn't get "moral lectures" etc. But until we were in our teens, we didn't get to watch movies rated PG-13. And even then, until we hit high-school, they'd often pre-view movies to see if it was something they really wanted their kids to watch.
Did we suffer? Hell no. I think I saw most of the Disney films by the time I hit junior high. I got to see some of the Classics. I had Saturday Morning Cartoons, and occasional after-school cartoons. (I Was insanely jealous of my friend who got to watch cartoons "on school mornings while eating breakfast".) woooo. heavy stuff. What did I do? I ended up reading every book I could get my hands on. As long as it was in the kids' section of the library, I could check it out. I read so much, that when the folks needed a severe form of punishment to dish out, they'd ground me from reading & take away my books.
I agree with castanaveras, that it isn't difficult to solve the dilemna- if you don't approve of it as a parent, don't let your kids see it. Grow a spine, and Just Say No.
If you run out of movies to watch, why not Read A Book???? now there's a shocking idea.
"But, certain activities, like air travel and border crossings, warrant this type of monitoring."
insanity. It's no one's business who I am or where I go. Crossing borders and travelling by air don't need such intense levels of monitoring. Checking on people entering the USA, yes that is a good idea. Monitoring people when they get on planes, make sure they don't have bombs or knives or such, tolerable. Though air marshalls are more effective.
Terrorism is terrorism. It isn't conventional warfare. It isn't as simple as making a law that is supposed to 'keep us safe'. Terrorists don't care about safety. They're willing to die for their cause. They're happy to die for their cause. For some of them, it becomes a religious experience that brings them closer to their diety. Note I say some, not all. But still, when a person is willing to do ANYthing and DIE for it, they will find a way.
So, how exactly does the USA enforce "smart cards" over the rest of the world? They can't. That leaves the option of closing our borders. Unacceptable. You can't allow trade of commodities to flow in & out of the country without valid ID if you enact such requirements. How many nations are going to be willing to require their citizens to subscribe to Big Brother tactics?
I'd say "if they do that I'm outta here" but the reality is that I'm pretty much stuck where I am for the time being. Besides, there really isn't anywhere to go globally that is any better. There's always a trade-off.
But giving up civil liberties is assinine. This nation was founded on the principle that people have fundamental rights by virtue of being alive, that no government has the right to take away.
Might as well just assume we're all guilty and monitor us 24/7. Install little microchips in our necks. Why stop with a little bit of monitoring?
I agree security needs to be better, but that means security personnel need better training and the espionage branch needs better training. It doesn't mean the average citizen needs to have their whole life open to the government via documents and such.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
--Star Trek: The Next Generation: "The Drumhead"
I personally do not support any limiting of civil liberties. I do not support assuming someone or a group is responsible for something without evidence. What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? So Osama bin Laden has done things in the past to warrant trial. That doesn't mean we as a nation should burn him for the WTC. Proof and trial people. Or was everything this country built on just a sham? Not worth a copper penny?
*end rant*