If you have any CDC 1700 or Cyber 17 msterials that could be used for developing an emulator, I know someone who is collecting said materials for precisely that purpose, and I can direct you to him.
> For example I was one of the few people who privately negotiated to have the rights to > access and modify any line of code in the Prime operating System (PrimOS).
Was this in the 80s? In the 70s, everybody got the source code...
> But I cannot ever give out my binary or source copies, they are copyrighted by Prime and I > know (suspect) the tape gens were serialized to me.
Yes, Primos was serialized, beginning with either Rev21 or Rev22. But I've never seen anyone state that using an unmatched system & OS would fail to work. I always assumed Primos was nagware. I guess I'll try this tonight when I get home.
> Plus its wrong. REPLY: Seriously, please explain this.
> If Prime were to release the entire source distribution of just hteir complete OS and > tools, the world would be a happier place and lots of nifty things could be done with it.
Prime doesn't exist anymore. And based on my research, I believe Primos is abandoned property.
> What good is an emulator when the whole point of the Prime was to be untied to hardware.
Oh, please explain!
> Microcode was loaded from a special boot floppy into a very fast ECL circuitboard that used the > microcode to simulate the legacy instructions.
True of some systems; mine loads from ROMs.
> But if you simulated a prime what would you simulate... equipment from 1977?, 1980?, 1985?, > 1990?, 1994? They are all so similar when you get right to it.
200 & 100 are one family; 300 is 200/100 plus paging; 400 is 300 plus segmentation. 450 begins the 50-series; 550-II begins I-mode. That's it. Choose one of the five.
> Nahhh.... what you REALLY need is the source or binaries to the OS and tools.
Which still exist...
> MESS (like mame but for cmputer consoles not coinops) ships bios seperately from MESS > because its a copyright violation to sell thos bioses.
That's because there really is someone who can prove they own those copyrights. (Cost of proving ownership of Primos > $PRIMOS_VALUE) AND (Cost of proving Primos ownership > recoverable $)
> But gigantic tape dumps of primos, or dec vax, or univac etc will never be common on irc or > usenet.
Five megabytes ain't that large...
> hell its all worthless. REPLY: An opinion if ever I read one...
> BUt Copyright restrictions that used to be 14 years in US, then eventually 75, and now > (because of Disney Corp) up to 85 years are going to make it IMPOSSIBLE to ever enjoy > emulators until 85 years from now.
Crambe repitita...
> I will try to hold onto my Prime tapes until 2080 for that moment.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Fair use my ass. I just want to non-profit play with a prime.
Well, once I can afford an LHC300, I'll hang mine on the net for people to hack into^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hplay with from time to time.
Primos may not be on the list yet, but after the CDC 6000 Series emulators are running, I'll be turning my attention to the Prime 400 (which was the beginning of the V-Mode architecture).
But for now, I'm happy running a real Prime.
Oh, and BTW, the 'Pr1me' thing was a midlife marketing crisis for Prime... early stuff didn't feel the need to use the '1'. OTOH, you can see I still use a Pr1me keyfob over on the right side of the pic at: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/smalltape.jpg Regards, -dq
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If you have any CDC 1700 or Cyber 17 msterials that could be used for developing an emulator,
I know someone who is collecting said materials for precisely that purpose, and I can direct you
to him.
Regards,
-OldPr1mate
> For example I was one of the few people who privately negotiated to have the rights to
> access and modify any line of code in the Prime operating System (PrimOS).
Was this in the 80s? In the 70s, everybody got the source code...
> But I cannot ever give out my binary or source copies, they are copyrighted by Prime and I
> know (suspect) the tape gens were serialized to me.
Yes, Primos was serialized, beginning with either Rev21 or Rev22. But I've never seen anyone state
that using an unmatched system & OS would fail to work. I always assumed Primos was nagware.
I guess I'll try this tonight when I get home.
> Plus its wrong. REPLY: Seriously, please explain this.
> If Prime were to release the entire source distribution of just hteir complete OS and
> tools, the world would be a happier place and lots of nifty things could be done with it.
Prime doesn't exist anymore. And based on my research, I believe Primos is abandoned property.
> What good is an emulator when the whole point of the Prime was to be untied to hardware.
Oh, please explain!
> Microcode was loaded from a special boot floppy into a very fast ECL circuitboard that used the
> microcode to simulate the legacy instructions.
True of some systems; mine loads from ROMs.
> But if you simulated a prime what would you simulate... equipment from 1977?, 1980?, 1985?,
> 1990?, 1994? They are all so similar when you get right to it.
200 & 100 are one family; 300 is 200/100 plus paging; 400 is 300 plus segmentation.
450 begins the 50-series; 550-II begins I-mode. That's it. Choose one of the five.
> Nahhh.... what you REALLY need is the source or binaries to the OS and tools.
Which still exist...
> MESS (like mame but for cmputer consoles not coinops) ships bios seperately from MESS
> because its a copyright violation to sell thos bioses.
That's because there really is someone who can prove they own those copyrights. (Cost of proving
ownership of Primos > $PRIMOS_VALUE) AND (Cost of proving Primos ownership > recoverable $)
> But gigantic tape dumps of primos, or dec vax, or univac etc will never be common on irc or
> usenet.
Five megabytes ain't that large...
> hell its all worthless. REPLY: An opinion if ever I read one...
> BUt Copyright restrictions that used to be 14 years in US, then eventually 75, and now
> (because of Disney Corp) up to 85 years are going to make it IMPOSSIBLE to ever enjoy
> emulators until 85 years from now.
Crambe repitita...
> I will try to hold onto my Prime tapes until 2080 for that moment.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Fair use my ass. I just want to non-profit play with a prime.
Well, once I can afford an LHC300, I'll hang mine on the net for people to
hack into^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hplay with from time to time.
But say, why not right your own emulator?
Regards,
OldPr1mate
Primos may not be on the list yet, but after the CDC 6000 Series emulators are running, I'll be turning my attention to the Prime 400 (which was the beginning of the V-Mode architecture).
But for now, I'm happy running a real Prime.
Oh, and BTW, the 'Pr1me' thing was a midlife marketing crisis for Prime... early stuff didn't feel the need to use the '1'. OTOH, you can see I still use a Pr1me keyfob over on the right side of the pic at: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/smalltape.jpg
Regards,
-dq