"Fac,ade" is definitely not an English word, as it can not be expressed with the English alphabet. No, "c," is not a questionable member of the English language: it is not a member at all, as evidenced by our inability to represent it using ASCII. Fac,ade, written that way, is still a French word, and is used in literature the same way Latin is. Don't get confused about that. "C,es le vie" is not English, either, though it may be used frequently. On the other hand, "facade" is an English word, and has been transliterated into English.
Secondly, I am quite aware of what "transliteration" means, and have shown so in previous posts. Just because you can look in a dictionary does not mean that you understand its use. I will repeat myself: for a word to be brought from the source language to the target language, it must be transliterated. This is the step which secures the word in the target language. This word then, most likely, loses its original pronunciation and begins to follow the pronunciation rules of the new language. By this process is it assimilated. Completely verbal methods are almost unheard of in literate societies. Words which have been brought into the target language from the source language are therefore referred to as "transliterated words," or, if you need to be more specific, "words transliterated from" Chinese/Japanese/whatever. This does not mean that, although the process is referred to as transliteration, that this is the only meaning of the word. Transliteration can be used in the more general sense which you are trying to point to, but that does not preclude its use as a more narrow technical term.
"A loan word" is not even proper use of English in this regard, as I have stated before, though the use of "loaned word" is common even among linguists because "transliteration" is a mouthful.
I'm not going to waste my time on this any longer, so I'll just point to the degrees on my wall which say "linguist" and "with highest honors" and leave it there.
I hang around with linguists, and I can't remember a single time that transliteration was used that way.
Well, I not only hang around linguists. I am one. The writing of a word from the source language phonetically into the target language's script is referred to as "transliteration," which is how words can be borrowed from another language, so any word which phonetically represents an originally foreign word has been transliterated. When it gets adopted into a language, it's no longer transliterated.
Pay attention here: we're talking about words moving from one language into another, and I believe that English is your primary language. A word which was or has been transliterated is a transliterated word.
Curious, though: what do your friends call these words that are transliterated, then become part of the language so that they can magically no longer be called such?
I was in no way trying to come off as superior, or even correct you: infact, the use of "loaned words" is common in English, as well. Just throwing out a useless piece of knowledge that I have.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I have no problem understanding numbers almost no matter how they are read. Some forms are simply more ambiguous than others and interfere with communication, if only for a split second. If you pause to think about my original comment instead of being defensive about it, you'll realize that you do the same thing, though it is probably so fast that you don't normally notice it.
Don't worry about it: writing an unambiguous sentence is a similarly underused skill.
classy pirated copies from a thai company called "warezco"
Yeah, they make them so good over here that some of them look more authentic than originals. I've bought many DVDs only to find out that they were/weren't pirated after I watched them. The computer CDs are sometimes only recognizable because they all have the same authorization code.
The proper term for "loaned words" here would be transliterated words. I use the first phrase sometimes, and the Thai word tapsap the other times, but, for your edification, transliteration is the linguists' term.
I used to love Mandrake for that reason. A couple years ago, the new professors in the French / Japanese office (why?) were having trouble with the all-Thai interface for Windows. After carefully ensuring that they only wanted to do basic word processing type tasks on their computer, I installed Mandrake 7.x over the pirated Windows 9x.
The French teacher logged on to French menus (I would guess they are good in Mandrake) and the Japanese teachers got Japanese, which was good because I had just spent two hours trying to help them find their office in either English or Thai with equal uselessness. (We ended up communicating through pictures and Chinese characters) Neither English nor Thai would have made good interfaces for them.
I'm going to respond to you even though the beginning of my post won't seem to relate. Just wait for the end.
I work with Thai every day (and am applying for the national Thai Linux team), and though it is left to right for consonants, we face a great localization problem in vowels, which can appear on any of four sides of the consonant. In front and behind are not problems, but making the vowels appear above and below consonants consistantly is very difficult, and has to be reworked after every major release of QT and GTK.
Then there's the word cutting issue. Thai uses no spaces between words, so every paragraph is a page-widening post. These words need to be recursively parsed by the computer to cut them intelligibly. PITA
Now, on to the response to your post: Iran and Thailand share a common heat problem. This is a big deal folks. I actually moved to a Via C3 600MHz because of the heat. Serving four thin clients, it's definitely not fast, but it doesn't hang from the heat six times a day like my old AMD 1.1. Heck, when I was coming with the military 6/7 years ago, our laptops burned up at an amazing rate. I can't imagine what the P4s and Athlons run heat-wise.
Calm down. I can see by your UID that you're new here, so I'll let you know that the above post was most likely a crapflood, directed at a random message. You can tell because there's no reference to you in his post. Responding to the post is wasting your time kind of like screaming at an IRC bot.
Take it easy and welcome to Slashdot. Don't feed the trolls.
The Sanscrit numbers for one, two, and three still bear a marked similarity to the Arabic numbers used in the west, and the pronunciation (at least by Thai monks) of ek, to, and tri are not far from the mark, either.
Ya. Sure. Ya betcha! Third time's the charm! Mandarin : er shi si (two-ten-four) Thai: yi sip si (two used only for twenty-ten-four) Lao: sao si (special word for twenty, similar to the English use of teen-four)
The "and" used in America is not often used in America except in the case of X0X, where "and" is a verbal holding place for the zero, so as to avoid confusion. Some people, though, take this custom and extend it, but they shouldn't because "five hundred and fourty five" is first registered as "504 ty five," after which the listener must stop, mentally rewind, and listen again to comprehend.
So, the original poster was correct that and should not be used in the manner that it was, but also incorrect in asserting that it shouldn't be used at all.
This is because, after repeated reading of a word, it is read in a whole word fashion, allowing scanning, skimming, and even speed reading. Phonics are not popularly taught in the American school system now, but can aid significantly in the early reading years. For ca / co / cu, c says "k" and VCE produces the long vowel sound. The s, z, ch, j, and sh sounds cause "es" to be pronounced "ez."
Quite useful stuff for a land of immigrants who could barely speak English.
Try it again!
Mandarin (but the writing was standard for years, so there should be no differences in order for other dialects): er shi si
Thai: yi sip si
Lao: sao si
Dan
Mandarin (but the writing was standard for years, so there should be no differences in order for other dialects): er shi si
Thai: yi sip si
Lao: sao si
Dan
I'm writing up the.spec file for it right now so that I can get the RPM into the Thai apt repository for this stuff, and we'll be working on a Thai translation as soon as they sell their quota and release the book in free form.
In the US, a baby is not considered born when partially out of the birth canal, so this is used to abort third trimester fetuses (fetii?;>). The baby is induced, partially delivered, and destroyed (in the animal shelter sense of the word) before it is legally an entity.
That the grandparent introduces this in the same breath as abortions to save the mother's life (which in reality never happen, because medical professionals are too talented) is an obvious straw man troll.
Some defections were headed off, like the Thai government, which pays $36 for Office and Windows XP comes with a 95% discount if you compare it to list.
This kind of glosses over the fact that this price was available only for government program offering low-cost computers to Thais. These computers were set to come with the government's own version of Linux and other programs localized for Thai. One million computers with Linux pre-installed scared MS enough that the program put the first crack in the "One Price Around the World" dam that MS had erected to that point.
Prices for regular software dropped somewhat shortly after, but not to the level quoted in the article. Despite this, the MS initiative seems to have succeeded because the Thai gov't has signed at least one huge contract with MS since then and has all but ceased the open source propoganda that it was pushing before.
Except that this is exactly the test that historians use to guage the accuracy of a primary source and literary deconstructionalists use on the bible to determine who it was really written by.
Not to be a stickler (well... OK... to be), the headline "Shuttle Fleet Upgraded" refers to an event in the past, while it really is set to happen in the future. This should read "Shuttle Fleet to be Upgraded" so that the proper impression is given and Slashdot can appear proficient at English.
Yeah baby, yeah! That was my first computer. Model I with 4K RAM and a tape drive. Black and white resolution of, i don't even remember, something like 50 x 20 for games. Z80 assembler was how I cut my teeth. That and TRS-BASIC. Oh, the tears are flowing...
I'm pretty sure that, if your electric company wants to raise prices, they have to seek approval before they do it. If they want to run broadband over those power lines, then they probably, again, have to seek approval. Monopolies are different, doncha know?
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, but Thai has 5 and Lao has 6, which were both in my original post, therefore I would've needed 6 numbers. Please read more carefully.
"Fac,ade" is definitely not an English word, as it can not be expressed with the English alphabet. No, "c," is not a questionable member of the English language: it is not a member at all, as evidenced by our inability to represent it using ASCII. Fac,ade, written that way, is still a French word, and is used in literature the same way Latin is. Don't get confused about that. "C,es le vie" is not English, either, though it may be used frequently. On the other hand, "facade" is an English word, and has been transliterated into English.
Secondly, I am quite aware of what "transliteration" means, and have shown so in previous posts. Just because you can look in a dictionary does not mean that you understand its use. I will repeat myself: for a word to be brought from the source language to the target language, it must be transliterated. This is the step which secures the word in the target language. This word then, most likely, loses its original pronunciation and begins to follow the pronunciation rules of the new language. By this process is it assimilated. Completely verbal methods are almost unheard of in literate societies. Words which have been brought into the target language from the source language are therefore referred to as "transliterated words," or, if you need to be more specific, "words transliterated from" Chinese/Japanese/whatever. This does not mean that, although the process is referred to as transliteration, that this is the only meaning of the word. Transliteration can be used in the more general sense which you are trying to point to, but that does not preclude its use as a more narrow technical term.
"A loan word" is not even proper use of English in this regard, as I have stated before, though the use of "loaned word" is common even among linguists because "transliteration" is a mouthful.
I'm not going to waste my time on this any longer, so I'll just point to the degrees on my wall which say "linguist" and "with highest honors" and leave it there.
I hang around with linguists, and I can't remember a single time that transliteration was used that way.
Well, I not only hang around linguists. I am one. The writing of a word from the source language phonetically into the target language's script is referred to as "transliteration," which is how words can be borrowed from another language, so any word which phonetically represents an originally foreign word has been transliterated.
When it gets adopted into a language, it's no longer transliterated. Pay attention here: we're talking about words moving from one language into another, and I believe that English is your primary language. A word which was or has been transliterated is a transliterated word.
Curious, though: what do your friends call these words that are transliterated, then become part of the language so that they can magically no longer be called such?
I was in no way trying to come off as superior, or even correct you: infact, the use of "loaned words" is common in English, as well. Just throwing out a useless piece of knowledge that I have.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I have no problem understanding numbers almost no matter how they are read. Some forms are simply more ambiguous than others and interfere with communication, if only for a split second. If you pause to think about my original comment instead of being defensive about it, you'll realize that you do the same thing, though it is probably so fast that you don't normally notice it.
Don't worry about it: writing an unambiguous sentence is a similarly underused skill.
classy pirated copies from a thai company called "warezco"
Yeah, they make them so good over here that some of them look more authentic than originals. I've bought many DVDs only to find out that they were/weren't pirated after I watched them. The computer CDs are sometimes only recognizable because they all have the same authorization code.
The proper term for "loaned words" here would be transliterated words. I use the first phrase sometimes, and the Thai word tapsap the other times, but, for your edification, transliteration is the linguists' term.
I used to love Mandrake for that reason. A couple years ago, the new professors in the French / Japanese office (why?) were having trouble with the all-Thai interface for Windows. After carefully ensuring that they only wanted to do basic word processing type tasks on their computer, I installed Mandrake 7.x over the pirated Windows 9x.
The French teacher logged on to French menus (I would guess they are good in Mandrake) and the Japanese teachers got Japanese, which was good because I had just spent two hours trying to help them find their office in either English or Thai with equal uselessness. (We ended up communicating through pictures and Chinese characters) Neither English nor Thai would have made good interfaces for them.
I'm going to respond to you even though the beginning of my post won't seem to relate. Just wait for the end.
I work with Thai every day (and am applying for the national Thai Linux team), and though it is left to right for consonants, we face a great localization problem in vowels, which can appear on any of four sides of the consonant. In front and behind are not problems, but making the vowels appear above and below consonants consistantly is very difficult, and has to be reworked after every major release of QT and GTK.
Then there's the word cutting issue. Thai uses no spaces between words, so every paragraph is a page-widening post. These words need to be recursively parsed by the computer to cut them intelligibly. PITA
Now, on to the response to your post: Iran and Thailand share a common heat problem. This is a big deal folks. I actually moved to a Via C3 600MHz because of the heat. Serving four thin clients, it's definitely not fast, but it doesn't hang from the heat six times a day like my old AMD 1.1. Heck, when I was coming with the military 6/7 years ago, our laptops burned up at an amazing rate. I can't imagine what the P4s and Athlons run heat-wise.
Calm down. I can see by your UID that you're new here, so I'll let you know that the above post was most likely a crapflood, directed at a random message. You can tell because there's no reference to you in his post. Responding to the post is wasting your time kind of like screaming at an IRC bot.
Take it easy and welcome to Slashdot. Don't feed the trolls.
The Sanscrit numbers for one, two, and three still bear a marked similarity to the Arabic numbers used in the west, and the pronunciation (at least by Thai monks) of ek, to, and tri are not far from the mark, either.
Ya. Sure. Ya betcha! Third time's the charm!
Mandarin : er shi si (two-ten-four)
Thai: yi sip si (two used only for twenty-ten-four)
Lao: sao si (special word for twenty, similar to the English use of teen-four)
The "and" used in America is not often used in America except in the case of X0X, where "and" is a verbal holding place for the zero, so as to avoid confusion. Some people, though, take this custom and extend it, but they shouldn't because "five hundred and fourty five" is first registered as "504 ty five," after which the listener must stop, mentally rewind, and listen again to comprehend.
So, the original poster was correct that and should not be used in the manner that it was, but also incorrect in asserting that it shouldn't be used at all.
This is because, after repeated reading of a word, it is read in a whole word fashion, allowing scanning, skimming, and even speed reading. Phonics are not popularly taught in the American school system now, but can aid significantly in the early reading years. For ca / co / cu, c says "k" and VCE produces the long vowel sound. The s, z, ch, j, and sh sounds cause "es" to be pronounced "ez."
Quite useful stuff for a land of immigrants who could barely speak English.
Try it again!
Mandarin (but the writing was standard for years, so there should be no differences in order for other dialects): er shi si
Thai: yi sip si
Lao: sao si
Dan
Mandarin (but the writing was standard for years, so there should be no differences in order for other dialects): er shi si Thai: yi sip si Lao: sao si Dan
I'm writing up the .spec file for it right now so that I can get the RPM into the Thai apt repository for this stuff, and we'll be working on a Thai translation as soon as they sell their quota and release the book in free form.
It's a fact, not a troll. My mother spent about 40 years in Labor and Delivery as an RN, and, although pro abortion, still states this as fact.
In the US, a baby is not considered born when partially out of the birth canal, so this is used to abort third trimester fetuses (fetii?;>). The baby is induced, partially delivered, and destroyed (in the animal shelter sense of the word) before it is legally an entity.
That the grandparent introduces this in the same breath as abortions to save the mother's life (which in reality never happen, because medical professionals are too talented) is an obvious straw man troll.
Some defections were headed off, like the Thai government, which pays $36 for Office and Windows XP comes with a 95% discount if you compare it to list.
This kind of glosses over the fact that this price was available only for government program offering low-cost computers to Thais. These computers were set to come with the government's own version of Linux and other programs localized for Thai. One million computers with Linux pre-installed scared MS enough that the program put the first crack in the "One Price Around the World" dam that MS had erected to that point.
Prices for regular software dropped somewhat shortly after, but not to the level quoted in the article. Despite this, the MS initiative seems to have succeeded because the Thai gov't has signed at least one huge contract with MS since then and has all but ceased the open source propoganda that it was pushing before.
Except that this is exactly the test that historians use to guage the accuracy of a primary source and literary deconstructionalists use on the bible to determine who it was really written by.
Not to be a stickler (well... OK... to be), the headline "Shuttle Fleet Upgraded" refers to an event in the past, while it really is set to happen in the future. This should read "Shuttle Fleet to be Upgraded" so that the proper impression is given and Slashdot can appear proficient at English.
Yeah baby, yeah! That was my first computer. Model I with 4K RAM and a tape drive. Black and white resolution of, i don't even remember, something like 50 x 20 for games. Z80 assembler was how I cut my teeth. That and TRS-BASIC. Oh, the tears are flowing...
I'm pretty sure that, if your electric company wants to raise prices, they have to seek approval before they do it. If they want to run broadband over those power lines, then they probably, again, have to seek approval. Monopolies are different, doncha know?