There's no question of legality. There is no law that forbids the publication of classified documents belonging to other nations. If there was, Assange would have been prosecuted long ago.
No, he doesn't. The US soldier leaking the information needs to be held accountable, because it's his responsibility to keep secrets. But Assange has no obligations against the USA.
Except that Julian Assange has not committed a crime, and is not about to commit one either. Releasing the US classified information is perfectly legal.
... and the next day, the member of parliament drops off a new computer at his office and restores the site from backups. While the diplomatic repercussions last for months or years.
If that failed, the US could focus on physical internet infrastructure...cutting communications lines into and out of the country. The list of non-violent combative options is considerable. Let's see how long public support in Sweden for the Pirate Party lasts when residents cannot communicate with others outside the country.
Jesus, you think you could do that without starting a war with every other nation in the EU?
Your attitude gives me a better understanding of US foreign policy.
You might also want to check out what Australian law and the ANZUS and NATO treaties have to say about this. I'm pretty sure it was illegal for him to traffic in that information regardless of his being non-American.
If that was the case, the USA would already have had him extradited. The reason they haven't done anything is because they don't have any legal grounds. They're just shaking their guns and making noises, hoping to scare people from doing similar things in the future.
And, in case there is any doubt: The leaked documents do not risk the lives of American soldiers. They expose the inefficiency of the American military. That is the real issue here.
There are rules about what should and should not be classified. There are procedures for reporting material that should not be classified. And there are rules in those procedures for protecting whistleblowers from retaliation.
If those rules and procedures worked, how come every scandal is covered up until a whistle blower comes along and forces them to open up?
The military doesn't WANT reports of their own inefficiency to come out. You can report a misclassified document to your superiors as many times as you want, it still won't make them change their minds if they think the document is embarrassing to them or their superiors.
Actually, Julian Assange is Australian, so there would have to be an Australian law forbidding people to spread information which is classified in other countries.
Perhaps the US government should bug some Swedish government offices and broadcast all of Sweden's classified information too, instead. Maybe a nice game of tit for tat.
Thank you, that would save us the trouble of fighting for our freedom ourselves.
While you're at it, could you try to sabotage our government's new Internet surveillance system (FRA)?
The U.S. is prepared to take out Assange and Wikileaks by force. Putting this material on Swedish government property would make Sweden their enemy.
So, when will they start bombing?
I don't think the other countries in Europe would sit idly by and enjoy the show. It would create a rather nasty precedent the next time USA tries to order them around.
Technically, the European Convention (which deals with human rights) is part of the legislation of all signatory countries. It doesn't need to be implemented in the laws of the individual countries; it is in itself a law in each of them.
The laws passed by the European Parliament, however, do need to be implemented in national law to be valid.
P.S. The Pirate Party actually made a clever contribution to the gender issue the other week. The Feminist Party (too small to be in the parliament) suggested that the government should recognise three genders instead of two, for transvestites and others who didn't want to be narrowly defined by the two biological genders.
The Pirate Party naturally responded that the government didn't need to register people's genders at all, since most legislation is neutral with regards to gender. Then people could define their own genders whichever way they wanted, without government intervention.
its awesome news. Now the immature little fucktard kids who run the pirate party will be forever known as the kind fo asswipes who broadcast information that puts the security of soldiers at risk. Fucking retards. I hope they all end up in prison. This news has made my day. Shows them up for the delusional fucktards they are
Or they will be known as the heroes who saved the lives of even more Afghani citizens by exposing the corruption of the US military.
I'm not American, so to me, the life of an Afghan is just as much worth as the life of an American solider. Sacrificing hundreds of Afghani civilians to ensure the security of a few dozen American soldiers may be justified to you, but not to the rest of the world.
The Attitude that I can break the law in you country because I am not there and you can not touch me. It bodes very poorly for the internet. And I sure any extradition treaty that results will make no one happy.
Fortunately, there is the principle of double culpability (I'm not sure what the proper legal term is in English). It means that extradition can only occur for actions which are punishable in both the country extraditing someone and the country receiving them. So Jon "DVD-Jon" Johansen couldn't be extradited from Norway to USA, because cracking the DVD protection scheme was not illegal in Norway.
Aren't you thankful that you can't be extradited for breaking the laws of other countries? What would you think if your fellow citizens started being shipped off to Iran to stand on trial for blasphemy against Allah? Or if people who bought the services of prostitutes in your country were shipped off to Sweden to be imprisoned here?
Sheesh, I'm a member of the Swedish Pirate Party, and I don't think it's that courageous to host Wikileaks. It's just a news site which happens to be disliked by the US government. It's not like the Pirate Party could get into trouble for hosting it.
The absolutely worst that could happen is that the Swedish government finds an excuse to shut down Wikileaks and confiscates the servers. And that would actually be good, since it would generate huge amounts of media interest and place a large portion of the Swedish public on the Pirate Party's side.
So let me get this straight... they (pirate party) make an obvious move to turn it into a political fight when it isn't... and you're saying the Swedes are too stupid to figure it out, so they'll assume anyone attacking Wikileaks is attacking the Pirate Party?
Of course people understand that this is a tactical move on the Pirate Party's side. Raiding the offices of a political party to shut down a news site will still be a very sensitive thing to do. It will raise a lot of questions about what else the government can do in the name of security. Merely the act of USA asking the Swedish government to shut down the site will generate a lot of media interest, debate and outrage. You see, a lot of citizens are still insisting that Sweden should decide on its own laws, not have them drafted in a foreign nation across the Atlantic.
And of course the Pirate Party is about politics. They want to change the legislation to reduce copyright to five years and legalise all non-commercial copying.
The TPB is likely run by friends to the original owners, who may or may not be members of a political party. The Pirate Party as an organisation has nothing to do with the Pirate Bay. There just happens to be an overlap in membership between the Pirate Party, the Pirate Bureau, and the Pirate Bay, for obvious reasosn.
Piratbyrån = "The Pirate Bureau". It is a lobbying organisation which advocates freedom from copyright, and is loosely connected to the Pirate Party and the Pirate Bay. The name is a spoof on the Swedish "Antipiratbyrån" ("The Anti Pirate Bureau").
Piratpartiet = "The Pirate Party". The actual political party, which now also acts as Internet provider for Pirate Bay and Wikileaks.
Julian Assange and the Pirate Party are crossing the thin line from being journalists and liberals (if they ever really were that in the first place) and into terrorists.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Wikileaks is not even doing anything illegal.
Why do Americans (I'm assuming you are one) have this bizarre notion that saying things the American government doesn't like is illegal - ALL OVER THE WORLD?!
Wikileaks is also working within the system. There is nothing illegal whatsoever about Wikileaks. It exercises its right to free speech by disseminating information which is completely legal and not even classified outside of the USA.
That's completely irrelevant. We're talking about politics, here. Conflation is the order of the day. The Piratbyran have associated themselves with an organization that every government hates. Talking heads will brand them security risks, and their agenda will be completely torpedoed.
It is about conflation, but you got it backwards. People in Europe are critical of USA:s involvement in Afghanistan, and positive to Wikileaks. Conflating Wikileaks with the Pirate Party will give the Pirate Party the status of a champion of free speech.
And don't worry, once we've freed Europe, we'll come for America.
Now fucking us out of due process to combat copyright violations is a "matter of global security."
Their heart's in the right place, but could they possibly have a worse strategic approach?
It's actually a very conscious strategy for the upcoming elections. First, the Pirate Party gets a lot of publicity just for hosting the site. Then, if the US government pressures the Swedish government to shut down Wikileaks, there will be an outrage like never before. Raiding the offices of a political party is in itself very controversial, and since Wikileaks and the official Pirate Party web site reside on the same physical server, they'll have to shut both down.
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There's no question of legality. There is no law that forbids the publication of classified documents belonging to other nations. If there was, Assange would have been prosecuted long ago.
No, he doesn't. The US soldier leaking the information needs to be held accountable, because it's his responsibility to keep secrets. But Assange has no obligations against the USA.
Except that Julian Assange has not committed a crime, and is not about to commit one either. Releasing the US classified information is perfectly legal.
... and the next day, the member of parliament drops off a new computer at his office and restores the site from backups. While the diplomatic repercussions last for months or years.
If that failed, the US could focus on physical internet infrastructure...cutting communications lines into and out of the country. The list of non-violent combative options is considerable. Let's see how long public support in Sweden for the Pirate Party lasts when residents cannot communicate with others outside the country.
Jesus, you think you could do that without starting a war with every other nation in the EU?
Your attitude gives me a better understanding of US foreign policy.
You might also want to check out what Australian law and the ANZUS and NATO treaties have to say about this. I'm pretty sure it was illegal for him to traffic in that information regardless of his being non-American.
If that was the case, the USA would already have had him extradited. The reason they haven't done anything is because they don't have any legal grounds. They're just shaking their guns and making noises, hoping to scare people from doing similar things in the future.
And, in case there is any doubt: The leaked documents do not risk the lives of American soldiers. They expose the inefficiency of the American military. That is the real issue here.
There are rules about what should and should not be classified. There are procedures for reporting material that should not be classified. And there are rules in those procedures for protecting whistleblowers from retaliation.
If those rules and procedures worked, how come every scandal is covered up until a whistle blower comes along and forces them to open up?
The military doesn't WANT reports of their own inefficiency to come out. You can report a misclassified document to your superiors as many times as you want, it still won't make them change their minds if they think the document is embarrassing to them or their superiors.
Actually, Julian Assange is Australian, so there would have to be an Australian law forbidding people to spread information which is classified in other countries.
Perhaps the US government should bug some Swedish government offices and broadcast all of Sweden's classified information too, instead. Maybe a nice game of tit for tat.
Thank you, that would save us the trouble of fighting for our freedom ourselves.
While you're at it, could you try to sabotage our government's new Internet surveillance system (FRA)?
The U.S. is prepared to take out Assange and Wikileaks by force. Putting this material on Swedish government property would make Sweden their enemy.
So, when will they start bombing?
I don't think the other countries in Europe would sit idly by and enjoy the show. It would create a rather nasty precedent the next time USA tries to order them around.
Technically, the European Convention (which deals with human rights) is part of the legislation of all signatory countries. It doesn't need to be implemented in the laws of the individual countries; it is in itself a law in each of them.
The laws passed by the European Parliament, however, do need to be implemented in national law to be valid.
P.S. The Pirate Party actually made a clever contribution to the gender issue the other week. The Feminist Party (too small to be in the parliament) suggested that the government should recognise three genders instead of two, for transvestites and others who didn't want to be narrowly defined by the two biological genders.
The Pirate Party naturally responded that the government didn't need to register people's genders at all, since most legislation is neutral with regards to gender. Then people could define their own genders whichever way they wanted, without government intervention.
The Pirate Party is not just a reaction against anti-pirate lawsuits or US-American meddling. It has a coherent ideology, with three pillars:
* Privacy
* Free culture (both free as in speech and free as in beer)
* Free knowledge (meaning, no patents)
its awesome news. Now the immature little fucktard kids who run the pirate party will be forever known as the kind fo asswipes who broadcast information that puts the security of soldiers at risk.
Fucking retards. I hope they all end up in prison.
This news has made my day. Shows them up for the delusional fucktards they are
Or they will be known as the heroes who saved the lives of even more Afghani citizens by exposing the corruption of the US military.
I'm not American, so to me, the life of an Afghan is just as much worth as the life of an American solider. Sacrificing hundreds of Afghani civilians to ensure the security of a few dozen American soldiers may be justified to you, but not to the rest of the world.
If you can get a job here in Sweden, you should be able to stay here indefinitely, and eventually be naturalised.
The Attitude that I can break the law in you country because I am not there and you can not touch me. It bodes very poorly for the internet. And I sure any extradition treaty that results will make no one happy.
Fortunately, there is the principle of double culpability (I'm not sure what the proper legal term is in English). It means that extradition can only occur for actions which are punishable in both the country extraditing someone and the country receiving them. So Jon "DVD-Jon" Johansen couldn't be extradited from Norway to USA, because cracking the DVD protection scheme was not illegal in Norway.
Aren't you thankful that you can't be extradited for breaking the laws of other countries? What would you think if your fellow citizens started being shipped off to Iran to stand on trial for blasphemy against Allah? Or if people who bought the services of prostitutes in your country were shipped off to Sweden to be imprisoned here?
Sheesh, I'm a member of the Swedish Pirate Party, and I don't think it's that courageous to host Wikileaks. It's just a news site which happens to be disliked by the US government. It's not like the Pirate Party could get into trouble for hosting it.
The absolutely worst that could happen is that the Swedish government finds an excuse to shut down Wikileaks and confiscates the servers. And that would actually be good, since it would generate huge amounts of media interest and place a large portion of the Swedish public on the Pirate Party's side.
So let me get this straight ... they (pirate party) make an obvious move to turn it into a political fight when it isn't ... and you're saying the Swedes are too stupid to figure it out, so they'll assume anyone attacking Wikileaks is attacking the Pirate Party?
Of course people understand that this is a tactical move on the Pirate Party's side. Raiding the offices of a political party to shut down a news site will still be a very sensitive thing to do. It will raise a lot of questions about what else the government can do in the name of security. Merely the act of USA asking the Swedish government to shut down the site will generate a lot of media interest, debate and outrage. You see, a lot of citizens are still insisting that Sweden should decide on its own laws, not have them drafted in a foreign nation across the Atlantic.
And of course the Pirate Party is about politics. They want to change the legislation to reduce copyright to five years and legalise all non-commercial copying.
The TPB is likely run by friends to the original owners, who may or may not be members of a political party. The Pirate Party as an organisation has nothing to do with the Pirate Bay. There just happens to be an overlap in membership between the Pirate Party, the Pirate Bureau, and the Pirate Bay, for obvious reasosn.
Piratbyrån = "The Pirate Bureau". It is a lobbying organisation which advocates freedom from copyright, and is loosely connected to the Pirate Party and the Pirate Bay. The name is a spoof on the Swedish "Antipiratbyrån" ("The Anti Pirate Bureau").
Piratpartiet = "The Pirate Party". The actual political party, which now also acts as Internet provider for Pirate Bay and Wikileaks.
Julian Assange and the Pirate Party are crossing the thin line from being journalists and liberals (if they ever really were that in the first place) and into terrorists.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Wikileaks is not even doing anything illegal.
Why do Americans (I'm assuming you are one) have this bizarre notion that saying things the American government doesn't like is illegal - ALL OVER THE WORLD?!
Wikileaks is also working within the system. There is nothing illegal whatsoever about Wikileaks. It exercises its right to free speech by disseminating information which is completely legal and not even classified outside of the USA.
That's completely irrelevant. We're talking about politics, here. Conflation is the order of the day. The Piratbyran have associated themselves with an organization that every government hates. Talking heads will brand them security risks, and their agenda will be completely torpedoed.
It is about conflation, but you got it backwards. People in Europe are critical of USA:s involvement in Afghanistan, and positive to Wikileaks. Conflating Wikileaks with the Pirate Party will give the Pirate Party the status of a champion of free speech.
And don't worry, once we've freed Europe, we'll come for America.
More like how the political labour movement was separate from the unions. They communicated and helped each other, but had separate organisations.
Now fucking us out of due process to combat copyright violations is a "matter of global security."
Their heart's in the right place, but could they possibly have a worse strategic approach?
It's actually a very conscious strategy for the upcoming elections. First, the Pirate Party gets a lot of publicity just for hosting the site. Then, if the US government pressures the Swedish government to shut down Wikileaks, there will be an outrage like never before. Raiding the offices of a political party is in itself very controversial, and since Wikileaks and the official Pirate Party web site reside on the same physical server, they'll have to shut both down.