Second, what I don't get, is why can't we use electronics to print out a "ballot" with our selections done in the comfort of home, and just take this "ballot" to a polling place?
How do you know that the ballot you are printing is the correct one? Just because it comes from what looks like the official voting web site doesn't mean that it actually is. What happens when scores of people show up with thier home printed ballots that are invalid? Have them vote at the voting station? Why not just have them do that in the first place?
What if, even worse, somebody slightly changes the online ballot to trick people into voting for the wrong person? Perhaps they switch the names, so that when voting for Person A, the scantron machine actually reads it as a vote for Person B. The machine accepts it without error and it looks to the voter like they've voted for who they want. Unless a ballot is given to a voter by an election judge there is no real way of knowing if it is valid and without hidden tricks. Even then there could be doubt about a ballot's validity.
It may sound like I'm being paranoid and overly critical about using technology for elections, but with so much on the line it would seem very likely that somebody with an interest in who gets elected could try to sway an election like this.
Yeah, internet voiting isn't anywhere close to being ready (denial of service to voters, lack of voter verifiable printouts and selling or coercing votes [which is a problem with absentee ballots too] all present major problems), but this isn't about internet voiting; it's about electronic voting machines at voting locations.
I'm not trying to argue with you, just point out that if we can't get this right in an environment without networks and all the risks that come with that, safe internet voting (if it ever comes around) is probably way further off than we think.
Voters should not have any way of obtaining proof they voted a certain way, because that'll lead to kickback schemes and bosses requiring their employees proving they voted a certain way.
I'm not disagreeing with you here, or with the fact that a paper printout in a locked box would be good for a challenge on the results, but imagine this situation.
I am a person that wants to buy votes and wants proof that the people I am paying are voting for who they say they are. The voter and I meet somewhere far enough away from the poll that it doesn't look conspicuous. I give them a camera phone and tell them to go vote, take a picture of the printout, put the printout in the box and come back with the phone so I can see the picture they have taken of their votes. For more security (if it can be called that) I could put a stamp on the inside of thier wrist that must be visible in the photograph so I can be sure it is their hand holding the ballot.
Would having a printout facilitate such fraud? How do you prevent a scheme like this? I think most polls require that you don't bring anything with you into the voting area, but they don't pat you down either. And maybe camera phones don't have good enough resolution or make a snapping noise when they take a picture, but I'm sure somebody who would be willing to buy votes would figure out a way around that.
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Second, what I don't get, is why can't we use electronics to print out a "ballot" with our selections done in the comfort of home, and just take this "ballot" to a polling place?
How do you know that the ballot you are printing is the correct one? Just because it comes from what looks like the official voting web site doesn't mean that it actually is. What happens when scores of people show up with thier home printed ballots that are invalid? Have them vote at the voting station? Why not just have them do that in the first place?
What if, even worse, somebody slightly changes the online ballot to trick people into voting for the wrong person? Perhaps they switch the names, so that when voting for Person A, the scantron machine actually reads it as a vote for Person B. The machine accepts it without error and it looks to the voter like they've voted for who they want. Unless a ballot is given to a voter by an election judge there is no real way of knowing if it is valid and without hidden tricks. Even then there could be doubt about a ballot's validity.
It may sound like I'm being paranoid and overly critical about using technology for elections, but with so much on the line it would seem very likely that somebody with an interest in who gets elected could try to sway an election like this.
Yeah, internet voiting isn't anywhere close to being ready (denial of service to voters, lack of voter verifiable printouts and selling or coercing votes [which is a problem with absentee ballots too] all present major problems), but this isn't about internet voiting; it's about electronic voting machines at voting locations.
I'm not trying to argue with you, just point out that if we can't get this right in an environment without networks and all the risks that come with that, safe internet voting (if it ever comes around) is probably way further off than we think.
Voters should not have any way of obtaining proof they voted a certain way, because that'll lead to kickback schemes and bosses requiring their employees proving they voted a certain way.
I'm not disagreeing with you here, or with the fact that a paper printout in a locked box would be good for a challenge on the results, but imagine this situation.
I am a person that wants to buy votes and wants proof that the people I am paying are voting for who they say they are. The voter and I meet somewhere far enough away from the poll that it doesn't look conspicuous. I give them a camera phone and tell them to go vote, take a picture of the printout, put the printout in the box and come back with the phone so I can see the picture they have taken of their votes. For more security (if it can be called that) I could put a stamp on the inside of thier wrist that must be visible in the photograph so I can be sure it is their hand holding the ballot.
Would having a printout facilitate such fraud? How do you prevent a scheme like this? I think most polls require that you don't bring anything with you into the voting area, but they don't pat you down either. And maybe camera phones don't have good enough resolution or make a snapping noise when they take a picture, but I'm sure somebody who would be willing to buy votes would figure out a way around that.
Is something that needs to be worried about?
If you go to the apple store and check out the new G5's, at the top of the page it reads:
Step 1: Select Your Power Macintosh G3
Nice, I've been waiting -5 years for those things.