I never claimed to be "the only one who knows". That's rediculous of you to suggest. I just want people with experience guiding them, not fantasy. Why is that so much to ask? Even when yu apply for a job they'll most likely pick the one with experience.
"bahaved as a stalker"? you've got some issues with OnStar, don't you. Wow. I confessed my deception to my daughter. She didn't. Try to get a perspective on your ablity to judge others. Try looking inward before you project your issues on someone else. We talk with our kids. We explain what we're doing and talk about how they feel about it. We change our course of action sometimes. Not with the GPS so far, but who knows?
As I said in another thread: Trust comes and goes in cycles. Don't assume that it's black and white. My kids are learning to be flexible. They will find clever ways around their parents. I do hope they can keep up with me (and technology). I found ways around my folks. The GPS really raises the bar on difficulty. It would make me proud to know they got me. But, Like my mom did, I'll have to wait until they are around 25 before they are confortable enough to tell me about it.
Yes, I was "spied on" by my parents and many of my friends were too. I have a great life now and it looks like my kids will too. I will hone their skills at coping with adversity. Even if I have to play the bad spy, or the evil overlord. You have no idea how they love me. They are all still allowed to go out. I'm helping my daughter plan budgets and college. There are so many variables. The width and breadth of all the typing on/. cannot come close to presenting the whole picture of a relationship. Life is complicated. Try to have a broader view.
Staying out of your child's business is lazy parenting. Proactive parenting has been the way for hundreds of generations. Ignoring them and hoping for the best can only lead many to horrible lives where they try to get away from criminal records and teen pregnancy among other problems that arise because parent use the "trust" issue to excuse uninvolvment.
We have studied positive and negative reinforcement. There are experts clinging to all of the colors in the child rearing spectrum. I agree that it all "has to be done with caution and a great deal of thought." How can parents be expected to see it in every little thing? It's a godlike ability that is only required of other people. Never oneself.
Have you ever cut food for your children? In our child's lives they've said "No. I do it my own self. Nooo! Me do it." They see even at a young age that you don't trust them with that steak knife. Did you put a "great deal of thought" into that? Are you telling me that you would hand them the knife to avoid any confrontation that might result in a "trust issue"? Probably not. Human psyche does not forget the simple, straight forward statements of distrust that actions present. There's no need to say "I don't trust you with this knife." Make no mistake, even "in the absence of a trust issue", the kid gets it. Trying to mitigate the damage with "When you are older, dear." will be too little. The "generally accepted wisdom is" small children are too young to trust with a steak knife. That's just one example.
Have you ever seen a parent that wasn't watching their child, like at a park or on a playground or even in a store. I've seen children playing on an escalator while their parents are no where to be seen. Have you ever thought to yourself "why don't they bother to watch their child? That kid could get hurt." Watching them from a distance, is that good enough. When they are older like teens we don't see many people fretting over the escalator. Kids that age are often thought to be just rude and obnoxious.
That said, I think you are right about the fact that there are trust issues directly associated with GPS monitoring, but I defy anyone (other than Christ) to present a case of the pure relationship that never introduces perceptible mistrust. I still think GPS at a teens age is little, or no different, than watching carefully when we finally let them cut their own steak with the knife. We still want to watch for trouble. We didn't stop watching carefully until a few demonstrations that they would be safe. Trust is a cyclic thing, (like so much in relationships) that we rebuilt when we let them cut the steak. This time it's not a knife but we still don't want them to hurt themselves.
After considering your thoughts on this I do have to step back and look at many other things we've done with our kids. Again, there are so many variables. I wonder though, if this GPS thing isn't so much of a "trust issue" case as a "breeding resentment from our teens" case. That is a far more piercing problem that walks hand in hand with sibling rivalry. As you raise your kids, remember that treating the others in a manner that one does not believe is fair, will breed both resentment and mistrust. Fair is a perception that is relative for each child, regardless of reality. For those who have more than two children, we advise that you study forensics almost as much as child psychology.
I have said to my daughters "When you're older, dear, we won't be putting any GPS in your car." They know that when they turn 18 we will stop watching what they do to keep them from harm. We will watch what they do and try to help them heal if there is harm. Even after her independence there will likely be trust that needs to rebuild or may be destroyed as events proceed. We only hope we are prepared.
I wrestled with the idea that I was spying on my daughter in much the same manner as big brother in G. Orwell's 1984. As a database administrator I often contemplate the ethics of tracking people through data records. This spying on my daughter did not come about lightly. I recommended that other parents try the GPS approach when they were telling me similar stories. I do think that while I am to be held responsible for their actions, I should be allowed to be aware of their actions and whereabouts. Upon her 18th birthday she knows that it will no longer be an issue for her. I have discussed with her, the legalities of tracking her in that manner. Even so, I can track my own car all I want (regardless of the driver). I have that right.
We all work with our own experiences, and I respect yours. I do think that with that combination of shared experiences, you have as good a chance as any to raise well rounded children.
Who knows how many generations of humans have had to raise other generations? There have been millions and millions of successful child rearing attempts. So, it stands to reason that there will be countless ways to go about raising children in a correct manner. When people play Monday morning quarterback with statements about how we should have raised a child, they are only fooling themselves. I don't ever presume to know the obstacles in a parent's life, nor do I presume to predict a better outcome based on some fantasized sequence of events in the parent-child relationship. I hold that view of "I know what you should have done" to be ridiculous.
There are obvious things that can be said about what should not have been done. Unlike abuse or neglect, I think GPS tracking is benign.
I will change my mind on this tracking (of course) when my child asks me how to keep the GPS recharged that she duck taped to her ex-boyfriends car.
Oh, we still have heart to heart talks with our kids. Did your parents ever think to let you in on how betrayal feels. My kids have a better understanding of why betrayal hurts more since we love them. Trust comes and goes in cycles. Don't assume that it's black and white. My kids are learning to be flexible. They will find clever ways around their parents. I do hope they can keep up with me (and technology). I found ways around my folks. The GPS really raises the bar on difficulty. It would make me proud to know they got me. Like my mom did, I'll have to wait until they are around 25 before they are confortable enough to tell me about it.
I haven't put the GPS in the car for a while now. My kids have all the opportunity in the world to regain trust in us as well as our opportunities to be trusted by them. They still come to both of us parents for help. They still hug us back. We have a solid relationship with our kids. They come to us when they are in trouble (twice now before officers showed up). Sex, drugs, curfew, assalt, theft, slander, you name it, we've talked. Clean records so far.
I was "spied on" by my parents and many of my friends were too. I have a great life now and it looks like my kids will too. I will hone their skills at coping with adversity. Even if I have to play the bad spy, or the evil overlord. You have no idea how they love me. They are all still allowed to go out. I'm helping my daughter plan budgets and college. She has her own car now and soon I'll be putting the GPS in there for my second daughter's sake.
And guess what... I know several people who regret the criminal records that they got as teens and weren't allowed to expunge from their records. Just remember, that's not automatic. You'll have to go before a judge before those things are removed. That's hurt a couple of friends I met in my 30's with job applications and many other ways throughout their lives. They were both never spied on by parents because their parents were not involved in their lives either.
There are so many variables. The width and breadth of all the typing on/. cannot come close to presenting the whole picture of a relationship. Life is complicated. Try to have a broader view. And try not to go off topic too far. This is/.
You're right. Lazy parents do exits. We do talk to all three of our kids about what kind of trouble exists. By pointing out examples in the news and forwarding links from/. And other sources on a regular basis. About half an hour ago I asked my daughter to get online and tell her side of the story. If she does, I'll be happy. I had her here by my machine reading several of the threads on this subject.
I believe we have developed some trust with our kids. I do trust my kids not to smoke cigarettes, but I have caught two of them drunk before. That betrayed the trust I had in them, about drinking. Now we check.
When we found out about the drug conviction of this other boy and a few of their friends, we "grounded" our kids from contact with all those boys until they had completed their sentence. The different descriptions about their ventures out, prompted me to dig my GPS out of my camping gear and employ it for this purpose. They betrayed our trust again. Now we check.
I have recommended that other parents buy a GPS.
You have a lot of good points here. You're right about needing to tell the children how we feel and let them know we care. Trust is developed over time through demonstration. Betrayal is common. Now we have to rebuild trust.
There are just so many variables. It's a long arduous journey raising children. It's likely that after kids get into the teen years, their parents have tried hundreds of methods and spent thousands of hours trying them. Just... don't assume that where these GPS spying type things happen that parents aren't right in the middle of building trust. The more I see on my GPS that rings true with what they tell me, the more I trust them. I have told them exactly that.
I have to agree with you. I'd like to respond to all of the other posted replies to yours. I did track my teen with a GPS. Yes, my car, my kid. I had the permission of both parents.
While raising three of my own I have so often heard "raise you r child this way", or "if only you had raised the child right there would never be a need...", etc. This kind of rhetoric comes from self righteous childless individuals who resent the parenting they got. Those words about parents who are "too stupid and lazy to raise kids in the manner..." come from people who have no clue about the sacrifices and dedication that we signed up for when we decided to conceive. Keeping track of your kid is part of the "due diligence" of parenting.
I haven't forgotten what I was like as a teenager. Letting kids "fly on their own" without the parental net, is the lazy way. Letting them encounter natural consequences is in some cases, neglect. Some natural consequences kill. Those that say let them "fly on there own" are also the first to want a conviction when a parent follows that advice. Parents have to "be there" for the child and that quite often, is not just for encouragement, but control.
Using a Garmin Etrex Vista GPS, I was able to find out where my daughter was taking our car. I had to retrieve the GPS from the car later to offload the track, but this did clarify the discrepancies in may daughter's explanation of her travels. I did not intend to stop her in the act. I have to get the GPS back before I can see where she went. Her and her friends had promised to go to the movies and not to visit specific other friends that night. The place they went instead of the movie theater was a boy's house who is wearing an ankle bracelet that a judge picked out after the boy's conviction. That's what we thought, but today's technology lets us know for sure.
Not only has this instilled a fear of her parent's Jedi powers (later she did figure out how we did it). Through, (after) later discussion (arguments) it has given her knowledge that we care what happens to her. She is closing in on 18 years. It's better that we impose consequences as a small part of parenting before judges and juries have to impose huge consequences later.
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I never claimed to be "the only one who knows". That's rediculous of you to suggest. I just want people with experience guiding them, not fantasy. Why is that so much to ask? Even when yu apply for a job they'll most likely pick the one with experience.
/. cannot come close to presenting the whole picture of a relationship. Life is complicated. Try to have a broader view.
"bahaved as a stalker"? you've got some issues with OnStar, don't you. Wow. I confessed my deception to my daughter. She didn't. Try to get a perspective on your ablity to judge others. Try looking inward before you project your issues on someone else. We talk with our kids. We explain what we're doing and talk about how they feel about it. We change our course of action sometimes. Not with the GPS so far, but who knows?
As I said in another thread: Trust comes and goes in cycles. Don't assume that it's black and white. My kids are learning to be flexible. They will find clever ways around their parents. I do hope they can keep up with me (and technology). I found ways around my folks. The GPS really raises the bar on difficulty. It would make me proud to know they got me. But, Like my mom did, I'll have to wait until they are around 25 before they are confortable enough to tell me about it.
Yes, I was "spied on" by my parents and many of my friends were too. I have a great life now and it looks like my kids will too. I will hone their skills at coping with adversity. Even if I have to play the bad spy, or the evil overlord. You have no idea how they love me. They are all still allowed to go out. I'm helping my daughter plan budgets and college. There are so many variables. The width and breadth of all the typing on
Staying out of your child's business is lazy parenting. Proactive parenting has been the way for hundreds of generations. Ignoring them and hoping for the best can only lead many to horrible lives where they try to get away from criminal records and teen pregnancy among other problems that arise because parent use the "trust" issue to excuse uninvolvment.
We have studied positive and negative reinforcement. There are experts clinging to all of the colors in the child rearing spectrum. I agree that it all "has to be done with caution and a great deal of thought." How can parents be expected to see it in every little thing? It's a godlike ability that is only required of other people. Never oneself.
Have you ever cut food for your children? In our child's lives they've said "No. I do it my own self. Nooo! Me do it." They see even at a young age that you don't trust them with that steak knife. Did you put a "great deal of thought" into that? Are you telling me that you would hand them the knife to avoid any confrontation that might result in a "trust issue"? Probably not. Human psyche does not forget the simple, straight forward statements of distrust that actions present. There's no need to say "I don't trust you with this knife." Make no mistake, even "in the absence of a trust issue", the kid gets it. Trying to mitigate the damage with "When you are older, dear." will be too little. The "generally accepted wisdom is" small children are too young to trust with a steak knife. That's just one example.
Have you ever seen a parent that wasn't watching their child, like at a park or on a playground or even in a store. I've seen children playing on an escalator while their parents are no where to be seen. Have you ever thought to yourself "why don't they bother to watch their child? That kid could get hurt." Watching them from a distance, is that good enough. When they are older like teens we don't see many people fretting over the escalator. Kids that age are often thought to be just rude and obnoxious.
That said, I think you are right about the fact that there are trust issues directly associated with GPS monitoring, but I defy anyone (other than Christ) to present a case of the pure relationship that never introduces perceptible mistrust. I still think GPS at a teens age is little, or no different, than watching carefully when we finally let them cut their own steak with the knife. We still want to watch for trouble. We didn't stop watching carefully until a few demonstrations that they would be safe. Trust is a cyclic thing, (like so much in relationships) that we rebuilt when we let them cut the steak. This time it's not a knife but we still don't want them to hurt themselves.
After considering your thoughts on this I do have to step back and look at many other things we've done with our kids. Again, there are so many variables. I wonder though, if this GPS thing isn't so much of a "trust issue" case as a "breeding resentment from our teens" case. That is a far more piercing problem that walks hand in hand with sibling rivalry. As you raise your kids, remember that treating the others in a manner that one does not believe is fair, will breed both resentment and mistrust. Fair is a perception that is relative for each child, regardless of reality. For those who have more than two children, we advise that you study forensics almost as much as child psychology.
I have said to my daughters "When you're older, dear, we won't be putting any GPS in your car." They know that when they turn 18 we will stop watching what they do to keep them from harm. We will watch what they do and try to help them heal if there is harm. Even after her independence there will likely be trust that needs to rebuild or may be destroyed as events proceed. We only hope we are prepared.
I wrestled with the idea that I was spying on my daughter in much the same manner as big brother in G. Orwell's 1984. As a database administrator I often contemplate the ethics of tracking people through data records. This spying on my daughter did not come about lightly. I recommended that other parents try the GPS approach when they were telling me similar stories. I do think that while I am to be held responsible for their actions, I should be allowed to be aware of their actions and whereabouts. Upon her 18th birthday she knows that it will no longer be an issue for her. I have discussed with her, the legalities of tracking her in that manner. Even so, I can track my own car all I want (regardless of the driver). I have that right.
We all work with our own experiences, and I respect yours. I do think that with that combination of shared experiences, you have as good a chance as any to raise well rounded children.
Who knows how many generations of humans have had to raise other generations? There have been millions and millions of successful child rearing attempts. So, it stands to reason that there will be countless ways to go about raising children in a correct manner. When people play Monday morning quarterback with statements about how we should have raised a child, they are only fooling themselves. I don't ever presume to know the obstacles in a parent's life, nor do I presume to predict a better outcome based on some fantasized sequence of events in the parent-child relationship. I hold that view of "I know what you should have done" to be ridiculous.
There are obvious things that can be said about what should not have been done. Unlike abuse or neglect, I think GPS tracking is benign.
I will change my mind on this tracking (of course) when my child asks me how to keep the GPS recharged that she duck taped to her ex-boyfriends car.
Oh, we still have heart to heart talks with our kids. Did your parents ever think to let you in on how betrayal feels. My kids have a better understanding of why betrayal hurts more since we love them. Trust comes and goes in cycles. Don't assume that it's black and white. My kids are learning to be flexible. They will find clever ways around their parents. I do hope they can keep up with me (and technology). I found ways around my folks. The GPS really raises the bar on difficulty. It would make me proud to know they got me. Like my mom did, I'll have to wait until they are around 25 before they are confortable enough to tell me about it.
... I know several people who regret the criminal records that they got as teens and weren't allowed to expunge from their records. Just remember, that's not automatic. You'll have to go before a judge before those things are removed. That's hurt a couple of friends I met in my 30's with job applications and many other ways throughout their lives. They were both never spied on by parents because their parents were not involved in their lives either.
/. cannot come close to presenting the whole picture of a relationship. Life is complicated. Try to have a broader view. And try not to go off topic too far. This is /.
I haven't put the GPS in the car for a while now. My kids have all the opportunity in the world to regain trust in us as well as our opportunities to be trusted by them. They still come to both of us parents for help. They still hug us back. We have a solid relationship with our kids. They come to us when they are in trouble (twice now before officers showed up). Sex, drugs, curfew, assalt, theft, slander, you name it, we've talked. Clean records so far.
I was "spied on" by my parents and many of my friends were too. I have a great life now and it looks like my kids will too. I will hone their skills at coping with adversity. Even if I have to play the bad spy, or the evil overlord. You have no idea how they love me. They are all still allowed to go out. I'm helping my daughter plan budgets and college. She has her own car now and soon I'll be putting the GPS in there for my second daughter's sake.
And guess what
There are so many variables. The width and breadth of all the typing on
You're right. Lazy parents do exits. We do talk to all three of our kids about what kind of trouble exists. By pointing out examples in the news and forwarding links from /. And other sources on a regular basis. About half an hour ago I asked my daughter to get online and tell her side of the story. If she does, I'll be happy. I had her here by my machine reading several of the threads on this subject.
... don't assume that where these GPS spying type things happen that parents aren't right in the middle of building trust. The more I see on my GPS that rings true with what they tell me, the more I trust them. I have told them exactly that.
I believe we have developed some trust with our kids. I do trust my kids not to smoke cigarettes, but I have caught two of them drunk before. That betrayed the trust I had in them, about drinking. Now we check.
When we found out about the drug conviction of this other boy and a few of their friends, we "grounded" our kids from contact with all those boys until they had completed their sentence. The different descriptions about their ventures out, prompted me to dig my GPS out of my camping gear and employ it for this purpose. They betrayed our trust again. Now we check.
I have recommended that other parents buy a GPS.
You have a lot of good points here. You're right about needing to tell the children how we feel and let them know we care. Trust is developed over time through demonstration. Betrayal is common. Now we have to rebuild trust.
There are just so many variables. It's a long arduous journey raising children. It's likely that after kids get into the teen years, their parents have tried hundreds of methods and spent thousands of hours trying them. Just
I have to agree with you. I'd like to respond to all of the other posted replies to yours. I did track my teen with a GPS. Yes, my car, my kid. I had the permission of both parents.
...", etc. This kind of rhetoric comes from self righteous childless individuals who resent the parenting they got. Those words about parents who are "too stupid and lazy to raise kids in the manner ..." come from people who have no clue about the sacrifices and dedication that we signed up for when we decided to conceive. Keeping track of your kid is part of the "due diligence" of parenting.
While raising three of my own I have so often heard "raise you r child this way", or "if only you had raised the child right there would never be a need
I haven't forgotten what I was like as a teenager. Letting kids "fly on their own" without the parental net, is the lazy way. Letting them encounter natural consequences is in some cases, neglect. Some natural consequences kill. Those that say let them "fly on there own" are also the first to want a conviction when a parent follows that advice. Parents have to "be there" for the child and that quite often, is not just for encouragement, but control.
Using a Garmin Etrex Vista GPS, I was able to find out where my daughter was taking our car. I had to retrieve the GPS from the car later to offload the track, but this did clarify the discrepancies in may daughter's explanation of her travels. I did not intend to stop her in the act. I have to get the GPS back before I can see where she went. Her and her friends had promised to go to the movies and not to visit specific other friends that night. The place they went instead of the movie theater was a boy's house who is wearing an ankle bracelet that a judge picked out after the boy's conviction. That's what we thought, but today's technology lets us know for sure.
Not only has this instilled a fear of her parent's Jedi powers (later she did figure out how we did it). Through, (after) later discussion (arguments) it has given her knowledge that we care what happens to her. She is closing in on 18 years. It's better that we impose consequences as a small part of parenting before judges and juries have to impose huge consequences later.