I'll give you some background. Where I live, Newfoundland, Canada, there is a province wide radio station: same broadcast for everyone. They have a 1-800 number you can call into. It is a debating forum at heart, it is called Open Line. It has a very balanced and intelligent moderator running the show for people to engage with. It is insanely popular here. Everyone listens to it and enough people call into it that it has built its own momentum for issues of the day. People call in and address what pisses them off. Politicians also call in all the time when they get sniped to refute or otherwise manage the issue. When a politician, or policy maker, calls they are put right through to address the issue. Everyone else gets in a queue but eventually does get their say (1-800 number..). This program enables a feedback mechanism that works extremely well here. Perhaps our history and culture explains how it came to be established. In the 1990's our primary industry, fishing, collapsed as the stocks were not properly managed from a government and citizen perspective. This sowed the seeds of doubt and lead people to question authority. As the inertia grew more people jumped on the band-wagon. As a result now that this singular institution is established in our culture our government functions better because of it. This is a lesson that can be drawn from us. It deserves to be shamelessly copied, my signature proposes implementing it on the web. I'm not a good mechanic however so I am asking for your help - please add your opinion to it.
I tend to agree, but, I'm willing to make a deal. Give me a fair term before public domain takes effect and in return I will accept a limited term of copyright. Not todays term which is effectively forever when compared to an individuals life-span.
But unless there is mass revolt, and there won't be without education and a common cause, then the collusion of big business and government can pick themselves up, ignore the truth, and carry on.
If there was mutual trust between customers and copyright holders this situation wouldn't exist. People are stealing because they know intuitively in their gut that they are being ripped off, see: The Public Domain. And copyright holders are failing to meet the needs of their customers - nobody wants digital restrictions yet they insist to maximize that little thing called profit. It will come back to bite them in the ass, it already has.
You have hit the nail right on the head. Industry in the form of the RIAA and MPAA is not meeting the needs of their customers. I want to download all my movies with none of that idiotic DRM, I want a public domain so that others can pick up the ball and continue where the current holder doesn't, I want many more things as well. But RIAA and MPAA members only want one thing: money. How they get it is control and they are playing a maximization game. What they fail to realize is that there are other agents out there and they have pissed some of us off. They shouldn't have pissed me off because I have nothing better to do than snipe at them all day all over the web wherever appropriate.
I am doing something. See my signature. And I actually don't have anything to lose so I'm choosing to stick it to the man because I can. People can force change through virtue all that is needed is the appropriate vehicle. Slashdot almost gets there, see my signature for a vehicle-in-progress that would allow you to say fuck you in as neutral a setting as possible. Organization is the key. Individually we are relatively intelligent, collectively we are a juggernaut. All we need is the mechanism to arrive at fair truth. What policy maker will risk flying in the face of that? They'd be taken to the nearest tree and hanged. Figuratively of course, we are a democracy.
That shows a lack of principle. We are all fallible, I'm petty and arrogant all the time - especially here;) - but if we want to improve our lot as a whole education is the only answer. It may be too late for us cynical and jaded adults but perhaps we can try an experiment with our children. Teach them to be responsible citizens. Start with restoring an actual functioning public domain. Then teach copyright obligations in civics classes to primary school students. It will never be easy as we all want what is best for us. But, collectively, we have to have room for compromise or we will all get nothing.
There is obviously an issue with regards to copyright in our society. Millions and more are sharing all the time. This points the finger at the issue being systemic. We need to educate people to enable a wider debate. That is the only thing that will lead to fair change. Piracy is not the answer. There is a place for copyright that is not todays distorted parameters. Boycotting in the mean time is the answer, however, unless boycotting is whipped into shape it is also not the answer. Debate! Educate your friends and family it is a small start but it is the only way.
You make some excellent points. To clarify my personal understanding of Machiavelli is that it is all about methods. He espoused them to be used in the physical world. I like to twist words. I manipulate purposefully discussion to my own ends. Sometimes, morally, I do it for noble ends and sometimes petty ones. Machiavelli's world is ages removed from ours but I fully believe that as its own work it is still relevant today as something to prod yourself into growing as a person. What you do with that depends on your morals.
The root problem is that situations have a flow to them so you must continually adapt. Everything is out of date the instant it is uttered. Therefore, you need strategy, wisdom, values, and motivation. Then you play the cards you are dealt.
If you want to effectively fight fire employ fire. The world is full of complex issues and the better the guides you comprehend to navigate through those issues the more effective you will be. Whatever your purpose, it's raising the bar. That's progress.
Read a book called: The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli. It is about this exact topic. It is in the public domain and you can find linked copies from that page. The point of this is that believe it or not, every single president in the US or leader elsewhere has read that book. It details how to establish, consolidate, defend, and extend power. The tools it employs include primarily manipulation in various forms. As they are tools they can be used for both Good and Evil purposes. It is up to you to add them to your own repertoire so you can then use them to fight for what you think is right. If you don't you will be out maneuvered by those who have.
I'd just like to do a quick summary of my position, to avoid wasting time contesting points that we both agree on.
I think your intentions are admirable, but your methods aren't sound. Big Media needs to pay, but we need to make them pay by the book. Boycotting has the same effect as piracy (sorry to harp on about it), plus it shows dedication to the cause, the kind of dedication that wins sympathy from other people, including the courts. Piracy just generates disdain.
Also, copyright needs to be fixed, but a few things need to happen first. Firstly, people need to start respecting copyrights more (otherwise, courts will inevitably side with copyright holders). Secondly, we need to fix our legal system, from which much of the corruption of copyright spread. As an analogy, it's no use lopping off the infected arm, when the disease is spreading from the chest.
Thirdly, copyright is broken, but not that broken. Artists can still create, and people still have reasonable access to their culture. When I say "fix copyright", I mean we should tune it so it runs optimally, and make sure it's not forced even further out of alignment by corporate interests.
That's pretty much it.
Since you've proven that the issues are systemic I'd like to focus mainly on your summary but I may draw from the rest of our comments when scoring a point.
To promote a mutual understanding I'd like to link to this: book. It outlines the issues in an entertaining, engaging, and understandable manner. It's a legal and free download from that page. Please promote it when appropriate. I'm still reading it so I may not be able to argue from a balanced position of facts on the topic yet. From what I've read so far I do believe this singular book carries the right tune.
Boycotting is a social phenomenon. With the Internet we have the ability to press our issues more than ever before. What is needed to enable this is a common glue to connect people into a cohesive whole. I believe that the only thing that can connect people is truth. To arrive at that you need virtue, you need to be noble to the point that you cannot be questioned. Debating is the method to arrive at truth. All parties need to be honest and tear down their prejudice where it is proved to exist. You are right. Boycotting is the way to do it, pirating is not. However, boycotting needs to be whipped into shape as an effective tool otherwise it is also not the way to do it.
Read this whole thread. When it comes to fixing the legal system I am promoting harnessing social networks as vehicles of debate. This debate would provide much needed and refined opinion to our policy makers to consider when they are making decisions. We have a golden opportunity here but it will be what we make it. By the way I'd still editing that: post. Right now I'm working on how truth moves through the tree-structure and I hope to make a reply at the Facebook feedback forum soon with it.
Thank you. Please continue with anything I've missed or press any points that are relevant as well. You've made my morning and I now look forward to coming back to this thread again.
Slashdot Mirror
Its a balance between where you choose to go and where you end up. They may be functionally equivalent but I prefer the former.
That is a very good point. And an alternate method of attack! Thank you.
I'll give you some background. Where I live, Newfoundland, Canada, there is a province wide radio station: same broadcast for everyone. They have a 1-800 number you can call into. It is a debating forum at heart, it is called Open Line. It has a very balanced and intelligent moderator running the show for people to engage with. It is insanely popular here. Everyone listens to it and enough people call into it that it has built its own momentum for issues of the day. People call in and address what pisses them off. Politicians also call in all the time when they get sniped to refute or otherwise manage the issue. When a politician, or policy maker, calls they are put right through to address the issue. Everyone else gets in a queue but eventually does get their say (1-800 number..). This program enables a feedback mechanism that works extremely well here. Perhaps our history and culture explains how it came to be established. In the 1990's our primary industry, fishing, collapsed as the stocks were not properly managed from a government and citizen perspective. This sowed the seeds of doubt and lead people to question authority. As the inertia grew more people jumped on the band-wagon. As a result now that this singular institution is established in our culture our government functions better because of it. This is a lesson that can be drawn from us. It deserves to be shamelessly copied, my signature proposes implementing it on the web. I'm not a good mechanic however so I am asking for your help - please add your opinion to it.
I tend to agree, but, I'm willing to make a deal. Give me a fair term before public domain takes effect and in return I will accept a limited term of copyright. Not todays term which is effectively forever when compared to an individuals life-span.
Thats what I said. Of course everyone can do better, I've started with me.
But unless there is mass revolt, and there won't be without education and a common cause, then the collusion of big business and government can pick themselves up, ignore the truth, and carry on.
Hooray! Now all I need are four Under-rated's! Thank you mister mod you have validated my complete existence.
If there was mutual trust between customers and copyright holders this situation wouldn't exist. People are stealing because they know intuitively in their gut that they are being ripped off, see: The Public Domain. And copyright holders are failing to meet the needs of their customers - nobody wants digital restrictions yet they insist to maximize that little thing called profit. It will come back to bite them in the ass, it already has.
Quid pro quo
You have hit the nail right on the head. Industry in the form of the RIAA and MPAA is not meeting the needs of their customers. I want to download all my movies with none of that idiotic DRM, I want a public domain so that others can pick up the ball and continue where the current holder doesn't, I want many more things as well. But RIAA and MPAA members only want one thing: money. How they get it is control and they are playing a maximization game. What they fail to realize is that there are other agents out there and they have pissed some of us off. They shouldn't have pissed me off because I have nothing better to do than snipe at them all day all over the web wherever appropriate.
Because to fix it you have to start somewhere. I've decided to start with me.
I am doing something. See my signature. And I actually don't have anything to lose so I'm choosing to stick it to the man because I can. People can force change through virtue all that is needed is the appropriate vehicle. Slashdot almost gets there, see my signature for a vehicle-in-progress that would allow you to say fuck you in as neutral a setting as possible. Organization is the key. Individually we are relatively intelligent, collectively we are a juggernaut. All we need is the mechanism to arrive at fair truth. What policy maker will risk flying in the face of that? They'd be taken to the nearest tree and hanged. Figuratively of course, we are a democracy.
See this: Thread for all the nasty, posturing details. Truth can be established and boycotting is the only answer but that requires organization.
I have yet to get my +5, Troll but that does not keep me from trying.
That shows a lack of principle. We are all fallible, I'm petty and arrogant all the time - especially here ;) - but if we want to improve our lot as a whole education is the only answer. It may be too late for us cynical and jaded adults but perhaps we can try an experiment with our children. Teach them to be responsible citizens. Start with restoring an actual functioning public domain. Then teach copyright obligations in civics classes to primary school students. It will never be easy as we all want what is best for us. But, collectively, we have to have room for compromise or we will all get nothing.
There is obviously an issue with regards to copyright in our society. Millions and more are sharing all the time. This points the finger at the issue being systemic. We need to educate people to enable a wider debate. That is the only thing that will lead to fair change. Piracy is not the answer. There is a place for copyright that is not todays distorted parameters. Boycotting in the mean time is the answer, however, unless boycotting is whipped into shape it is also not the answer. Debate! Educate your friends and family it is a small start but it is the only way.
Thank you, project Gutenberg will be my friend and you have provided the link.
Subterfuge. Men ought to be either well treated or crushed. The CIA is in the crushing business.
Everyone comprehends it to their personal degree.
You make some excellent points. To clarify my personal understanding of Machiavelli is that it is all about methods. He espoused them to be used in the physical world. I like to twist words. I manipulate purposefully discussion to my own ends. Sometimes, morally, I do it for noble ends and sometimes petty ones. Machiavelli's world is ages removed from ours but I fully believe that as its own work it is still relevant today as something to prod yourself into growing as a person. What you do with that depends on your morals.
The root problem is that situations have a flow to them so you must continually adapt. Everything is out of date the instant it is uttered. Therefore, you need strategy, wisdom, values, and motivation. Then you play the cards you are dealt.
Point?
If you want to effectively fight fire employ fire. The world is full of complex issues and the better the guides you comprehend to navigate through those issues the more effective you will be. Whatever your purpose, it's raising the bar. That's progress.
Read a book called: The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli. It is about this exact topic. It is in the public domain and you can find linked copies from that page. The point of this is that believe it or not, every single president in the US or leader elsewhere has read that book. It details how to establish, consolidate, defend, and extend power. The tools it employs include primarily manipulation in various forms. As they are tools they can be used for both Good and Evil purposes. It is up to you to add them to your own repertoire so you can then use them to fight for what you think is right. If you don't you will be out maneuvered by those who have.
Slashdot is crowdsourcing. Welcome to the hivemind. Everything is fractal and you have your branch and I have mine.
I'd just like to do a quick summary of my position, to avoid wasting time contesting points that we both agree on.
I think your intentions are admirable, but your methods aren't sound. Big Media needs to pay, but we need to make them pay by the book. Boycotting has the same effect as piracy (sorry to harp on about it), plus it shows dedication to the cause, the kind of dedication that wins sympathy from other people, including the courts. Piracy just generates disdain.
Also, copyright needs to be fixed, but a few things need to happen first. Firstly, people need to start respecting copyrights more (otherwise, courts will inevitably side with copyright holders). Secondly, we need to fix our legal system, from which much of the corruption of copyright spread. As an analogy, it's no use lopping off the infected arm, when the disease is spreading from the chest.
Thirdly, copyright is broken, but not that broken. Artists can still create, and people still have reasonable access to their culture. When I say "fix copyright", I mean we should tune it so it runs optimally, and make sure it's not forced even further out of alignment by corporate interests.
That's pretty much it.
Since you've proven that the issues are systemic I'd like to focus mainly on your summary but I may draw from the rest of our comments when scoring a point.
To promote a mutual understanding I'd like to link to this: book. It outlines the issues in an entertaining, engaging, and understandable manner. It's a legal and free download from that page. Please promote it when appropriate. I'm still reading it so I may not be able to argue from a balanced position of facts on the topic yet. From what I've read so far I do believe this singular book carries the right tune.
Boycotting is a social phenomenon. With the Internet we have the ability to press our issues more than ever before. What is needed to enable this is a common glue to connect people into a cohesive whole. I believe that the only thing that can connect people is truth. To arrive at that you need virtue, you need to be noble to the point that you cannot be questioned. Debating is the method to arrive at truth. All parties need to be honest and tear down their prejudice where it is proved to exist. You are right. Boycotting is the way to do it, pirating is not. However, boycotting needs to be whipped into shape as an effective tool otherwise it is also not the way to do it.
Read this whole thread. When it comes to fixing the legal system I am promoting harnessing social networks as vehicles of debate. This debate would provide much needed and refined opinion to our policy makers to consider when they are making decisions. We have a golden opportunity here but it will be what we make it. By the way I'd still editing that: post. Right now I'm working on how truth moves through the tree-structure and I hope to make a reply at the Facebook feedback forum soon with it.
Thank you. Please continue with anything I've missed or press any points that are relevant as well. You've made my morning and I now look forward to coming back to this thread again.