1. WinFS
Hmm, another layer on top of a file system to slow it down. MS's filesystem is already slow as a dog, How useful. We already know that that MS is 2.5 times slower as a file server then Linux with Samba 3ReiserFS 4, which is in final testing NOW beats the pants of any offering from MS in features and speed. ReiserFS 4 is sponsored by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) and is architected for military grade security, ReiserFS. There is also a Gnome project that I believe is using GnomeVFS to have a similar function of a database on top of the file system for searching, etc. Ulike the offering from MS, you will be able to REMOVE it if you don't want it and it will probably be ready in a year. I don't remember the name or link for the project off the top of my head.
2. SVG.
Gnome has had SVG themes for a while now with an SVG engine in beta that will literally be out YEARS before anything from MS. The SVG engine draws all the widgets in GTK+ as SVG. Some SVG themes Even more SVG candy
3..Net managed code.
Holy slowness batman! All this to have some bounds checking to prevent buffer overflows? This is already out for Linux
Non-executable user stack
4. DRM
Yes, just what all the users want. Someone telling them what they can and cannot do with thier OS and what files they can and cannot run. Thanks MS for putting your customers before the big media compnanies.
Stop your damn whinning you troll. If/. bothers you so much then leave. You must be the biggest butt buddy of Billy boy I have ever seen here on/.
* The interface is not Aero.
Yes, Aero will be the biggest joke around. One big childish UI that will strip away power features and force you to use "wizards" designed for a 5 year old.
* WinFS is not fully functioning.
I predict that WinFS won't be usable for 5 years. The file systems under Linux beat any offering from MS hands down. Ext3, XFS, JFS and ReiserFS are all great. ReiserFS 4 is in final testing NOW with many excellent features.
* Obviously, things will radically change in two years.
Yes, MS will continue down their DRM path to strip away as many of your freedoms as possible when it comes to using YOUR OWN COMPUTER.
I agree. It is *very* childish looking. Each release of an MS OS seems to shrink the desktop space more and more. Soon, there won't be a desktop and you will interacte with an MS OS with *only* "wizards". Just what the world needs a dumbed down UI with all the power stripped away. It is funny that they made sure to leave their stupid product activation crap in there as seen in the screenshot.
Miguel de Icaza? Did you hi-jack that nick or are you really Miguel de Icaza of Ximian fame? I hope not since it sounds like you are selling out to MS. You really think they are "true innovators"? How quickly you forget all the nasty acts of MS that has brought tons of anti-trust suits against them.
No more hidden APIs or secret protocols from the boys at Redmond - from here on its all public domain open standards.
Oh great, so where can I download the specs for the MS document formats, the Windows media formats, etc, etc.?
Do you really think that.Net won't be "extended" in some way if it ever caught on big time? MS will just "enhance" it with some MS specifics and thus make most apps MS Only again.
It sounds like the good ole greenback has caught your tongue.
It is not Linux, it is Mandrake who put an *experimental* kernel patch into a *production* release. It was very stupid. The patch was meant for ide cd-rw drives in which case you want to flush. That is why the LG CD-RW drives are not affected, only the normal CD-ROM drives. This is one of the reasons I *never* use Mandrake. I have had too many problems with their distribution. I stick to Red Hat. It is *far* more stable and Red Hat has 6 of the top 10 kernel developers working for them.
Your kidding me right? I wrote some automation software for my company that scripts installs for anything we want. We use it to patch 1,600 windows 2000 desktops/kiosks that we have across the country. We just pushed out service pack 4, SP4 was about 130 MB alone. There has easily been 500+ MB of patches/service packs for win2k that we have had to push down to 1,600 devices. All these devices are connected over a dedicated 128K frame relay. It wasn't fun pushing down all those patches and took a *very* long time. WinXP also has a whole lot of patches and and a huge SP1. This sure doesn't make *me* confident about closed source/proprietary software.
Also, if you had done some reading, you would have read that this has nothing to do with an OS. It happens when a flush cache command is sent to the drive, and it gets fried. Nice try troll.
I doubt that. If it is a bad drive, it is a bad drive. Whether it was found from MS or Linux doesn't matter. Here is a good mailing list thread on this topic.
Fedora Mailing List
Basically, Mandrake included an experimental packet writing kernel patch. And according to Alan Cox:
Specifically if you send a flush cache command to the specific LG drives
or their compaq rebadged ones they become factory returns. Scary stuff
indeed.
Hmm, you tell the drive to flush cache and it fries? Sounds like bad hardware to me.
No, it has everything to do with a poorly desined drive. This is not just specific to Mandrake, or Linux. When you send a command to flush the cache, the drive gets fried. Maybe MS Windows does not ever tell the drive to flush the cache? I don't know. Also, how many people out there are using this drive? How many posted to news groups about it? Basically, there should be *no* command that I can send to *any* device and have that device get fried. It is not like the people at Mandrake are writing their own kernel that sends a self-destruct command to the drive. The kernel is just telling the drive to flush its cache for crying out loud. This is a standard thing to do from time to time, especially when you shutdown or unmount a device to make sure that anything you were reading or writing to a device gets flushed. I bet this has happened to MS windows users as well. Though the typical MS Windows user would just call support and get a new part and not think any more of it. Where as a Linux user usually turns to the community and news groups to find answers and thus this "topic" shows up on/.
I just read a post from Alan Cox, it appears that if you send a flush cache command to the specific LG drives or their compaq rebadged ones, the drive gets fried. So this really has nothing to do with Mandrake and everything to do with a poorly designed drive.
According to Fair Use, it is ours to copy. The law just prevents distribution. So, all these companies using copy control is really depriving consumers of their Fair Use rights. This is one reason why I have not purchased music for about 5 or 6 years now and will continue to not purchase music. Hit the RIAA where it hurts them, in their wallet.
How about we look at all the MS zealots? I guarantee that there are more MS zealots in the world then Linux. I personally think it is silly to lable someone on their chioce of OS. There are wacky people in this world, whether they use Linux, Mac or MS.
Reboot? Who the hell needs to reboot? Oh yeah, Windows. And seriously, even if you need to reboot, if your computers are fast, it takes what, 30 seconds? less? If that amount of time is going to interrupt you that much you have a problem. And if your computers take longer to reboot than that, you have another problem. Using network installers that will patch and reboot all the systems from a central location it should take you this long to patch
I can see you have never used some bigger servers? Some of those boxes take a little longer then that to boot. Initializing SCSI RAID devices, etc.
1) download patch depends on connection, 1 minutes for me for average large wad of Windows Update stuffs. probably be like 10 minutes for people with less than college quality connections.
Hmm, a 130MB service pack doesn't come down in 1 minute.
2) time it takes to send patch to all systems and patch them. It takes me about 1 minutes to patch my single xp machine, so well generously give it 5 minutes if it's a whole bunch of machines
Again, all the numbers you are talking about so far are for very small scale networks. Get into a bigger network and things change quickle. A 130MB service pack can easily take 20 minutes to upack and install. The fortune 500 company I work at has more then 300 servers with about 200 of those being MS Windows based. We also have a few thousand desktops. So all business should just stop to patch the whole network? We bring in a few MILLION dollars per day. That is thousands of dollars per minute. I don't think anyone here would take this advice.
So, I generously estimate 16 minutes it should take to patch a network of windows boxen with the latest fix. If you don't have a means to patch all the machines from one location, consider getting one. Patching should be something you can do over lunch break. And of course, use non-windows and you wont have to reboot. Doing that should make patching transparent to the employees.
If you can come where I work and patch 300+ servers and a few thousand desktops in only 16 minutes, you will have yourself a great paying job. Ofcourse, business cannot just stop for 16 minutes while you do this, and the many many critical apps running cannot be broken after the patches. Though I guess you already estimated that in your "generous 16 minutes estimate"?
What a load of bull. It is the piss-poor job MS does with testing those patches. The admins where I work applied patches as soon as they came out a few times. However, those patches hosed other applications and even MS ones. They now have a mini data center and ALL patches go through there, well at least the MS one. I guess you didn't read any of the posts above about all the MS patches breaking things or slowing down the network. Our Linux patches get applied as soon as they come out since we have never seen one patch hose the system or more importantly hose other non-releated applications.
was their network so precariously designed that a simple ~500kb patch that plugged a tiny DCOM hole would upset the entire balance?
First, the DCOM hole was not tiny, no hole is tiny. Second, stop being an MS weeine and get a clue. The patch size does not matter. It is the CODE CHANGES. Hell, I can patch one of my own apps with a 1kb patch that will cause it to stop working. It has nothing to do with the network design and only to do with piss-poor MS testing. The MS marketing machine wants to be able to say how fast they get patches out, though they never mention how bad those patches really are.
I work for a Fortune 500 company as well, and one of our major web apps is written in a combination of ASP, VB and C++.
Thankfully where I am we have a mixed environment with Solaris, Linux and Windows servers so we are not stuck in the MS only nightmare, though it still shows its ugly head.
It's not clear to me that object oriented programming is a criteria for enterprise applications. Many of our big enterprise apps still use COBOL.
I worked on a COBOL app once about 6 years ago. That was the last time I would ever touch anything done in COBOL : ). I guess I would work with COBOL if it was to port to newer techonolgy.
I'm just glad we now have options like Java and C# out there, so I don't have to beat my head against the C++ wall.
So am I. It does take away some of the ugly aspects of C++. Though I personally would not want to touch.Net since it locks you into one platform.
However, many "enterprise" applications consist of a simple program running on the client (like a VB program) and all it's doing is transferring data to and from a back end database. You don't NEED a powerful language on the client side, if all of the magic is done with stored procedures and you're just displaying it.
Ahh, the expert on how every enterprise runs its business I see. Well where I work we have many number crunching apps that VB or VB.Net just couldn't touch. Does VB.Net run on Solaris or Linux or AIX? Nope.
You are obviously an intern, or fresh out of school, and haven't had a lot of real world work experience yet.
Going on 9 years now champ with C, C++, Java, Perl, PHP, ASP, Python, PL\SQL, T-SQL and yes even VB on Solaris, AIX, Linux and MS Windows. How in the world can you deduce that opinion?
Yes, VB makes it easy to write bad code that still somehow manages to work. Many languages do. Believe it or not, it is possible to be a GOOD programmer and write in VB.
Sure, however, I have yet to meet one that ONLY knows VB.
If you were a real programmer, you would know that good programming is about HOW you use a language vs. whether you use it, because often you simply don't have a choice in the matter (unfortunately).
Yes, because YOU are THE only "real" programmer in the world. Sorry, but different languages cause one to adopt different sytles. The procedural mishap of VB is usually the cause for a poor program. Not to metion VB's horrid error handling and extensive use of On Error GoTO crap.
If VB is so great, whey doesn't MS put out more of thier apps in it? IS SQL Server written in VB? How about the explorer shell, or MOM or MS Office or IIS or...
Maybe YOU don't have a chioce but I do. I'll work with C, C++, Java, Perl and Python. Keep the VB away, unless it is to fix a legacy VB app or to port a legacy VB app. I won't touch a new project that uses VB. Where I work they actually LISTEN to the developers on what technology to use. That is why we are using Java and not.Net.
Here is the URL for your comment that I am replying to. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=82622 The.shtml is a HTML file with some server side includes. Not every page needs to be dynamically generated by mod_perl, hence the.shtml.
There is no link with perl or VB or any other programming language. Its just mean that there is some very good hardware behind/. and many other sites dont have server farm or was designed for handling over 100 request per second.
I agree with this. Just about any language and any application can be made to "scale" if you throw enough hardware at it.
Yes we have heard of VB.Net. We just finished a very expensive evalution of Java/J2EE and.Net. We did our own evalution and had 3 independent evalutions done. One was by MS. Everyone selected Java as the superior platform (except for MS of course) for security, scalabilty, roubustness. Java has been around longer and has stood the test of time and proven to be a great choice while,.Net has not. Also,.Net would have locked us into just MS which would have been a bad choice.
How does the app run? Does it run on individual desktops? If so, then how is that scaling? Just about any language and app can "scale" if you throw enough hardware at it.
I'm not sure if your post was a troll or not, but it is pretty arrogant to assume any one language, especially one as widely used as VB, is for "kiddies."
Yes, that was a little trollish and I do appologize. However, I have met and worked with too many people that only know VB and or VBScript and the majority of them have had very limited knowlege of how to really program outside of that realm. The majority also had no clues how to design a large scale application, and would just code in a procedural fashion. I am thankful that I don't have to touch VB again. I just personally think that C, C++ and Java are superior, well rounded languages.
You can make just about any web app in just about any language scale. You can by Cisco content switches that load balance between many servers. If you have 100 webservers, even an old CGI could scale. Most big sites are not scaled out by choice of language, but by choice of the architecture.
As far as I know, I can not automate it. If I just wanted to make every security update to my computer that came out, I would like to click a button where it connects to the server every week or so to DL and install patches (and maybe sends an email to me when done saying what it did). If I am a sysadmin (which I am not), I would love to run this on 200 machines simulatneously without being at each machine and clicking next three times.
This already exists. If you pay have an RHN account you can create groups and place servers/desktops/etc in to these different groups and categorize things. You can then deply to the different groups when you want. This is all done over the web through your RHN account. I use this to group a few AS 2.1 servers and updating them is a breeze. I can connect to the net from anywhere and check the servers status. I can also do this for my home PC's.
If I update a package via an RPM but not via the RH site (say KDE), it doesn't know that I have updated. It keeps pitching me KDE 3.0.5, when I have 3.1.X. I don't really know how it works, but I can simply type
rpm -qa kde*
and figure out what version of kde I am running. Can't up2date?
Do you run the rhnsd daemon? This is what reports back to RHN what is on your computer every few hours and also checks for update, remote reboot commands, etc. If rhnsd is not running, RHN won't know the state of the RPM's on your system. Maybe consider upgrading to Red Hat 9? It is much better and has very good AA font support. I downloaded Red Hat 9 for free and paid $60 for an RHN account that lets me have two PC's on it to manage remotely, I'd figured $30 per/PC is not too bad for that feature.
True, though all of the big 3 Linux vendors have automatic update tools. SuSE has yast2, Mandrake has urpmi. Debian has apt. I don't see a newie using any other distro of Linux besides one of these. Possibly Lindows, though they have a very easy to use click-n-run thingy going on.
Not to mentiont hat RedHat has to issue the patch before you can update it.
Just as MS has to issue the patch before you can update it. How is it any different? And as for Red Hat, I have never seen one patch in the last 3 years or so from them that has broken anything, unlike many patches from MS that need to be tested in an isolated environment before being moved out to prodution.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes lets look at some of the innovations:
.Net managed code.
1. WinFS
Hmm, another layer on top of a file system to slow it down. MS's filesystem is already slow as a dog, How useful. We already know that that MS is 2.5 times slower as a file server then Linux with Samba 3ReiserFS 4, which is in final testing NOW beats the pants of any offering from MS in features and speed. ReiserFS 4 is sponsored by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) and is architected for military grade security, ReiserFS. There is also a Gnome project that I believe is using GnomeVFS to have a similar function of a database on top of the file system for searching, etc. Ulike the offering from MS, you will be able to REMOVE it if you don't want it and it will probably be ready in a year. I don't remember the name or link for the project off the top of my head.
2. SVG.
Gnome has had SVG themes for a while now with an SVG engine in beta that will literally be out YEARS before anything from MS. The SVG engine draws all the widgets in GTK+ as SVG.
Some SVG themes
Even more SVG candy
3.
Holy slowness batman! All this to have some bounds checking to prevent buffer overflows? This is already out for Linux Non-executable user stack
4. DRM
Yes, just what all the users want. Someone telling them what they can and cannot do with thier OS and what files they can and cannot run. Thanks MS for putting your customers before the big media compnanies.
I agree. It is *very* childish looking. Each release of an MS OS seems to shrink the desktop space more and more. Soon, there won't be a desktop and you will interacte with an MS OS with *only* "wizards". Just what the world needs a dumbed down UI with all the power stripped away. It is funny that they made sure to leave their stupid product activation crap in there as seen in the screenshot.
It sounds like the good ole greenback has caught your tongue.
Why not just buy a cheap PC for $200 - $300 dollars? Sure it won't be top of the line, however, it will out perform a virtual machince.
It is not Linux, it is Mandrake who put an *experimental* kernel patch into a *production* release. It was very stupid. The patch was meant for ide cd-rw drives in which case you want to flush. That is why the LG CD-RW drives are not affected, only the normal CD-ROM drives. This is one of the reasons I *never* use Mandrake. I have had too many problems with their distribution. I stick to Red Hat. It is *far* more stable and Red Hat has 6 of the top 10 kernel developers working for them.
You just send a flush cache command to the drive and it gets fried.
Your kidding me right? I wrote some automation software for my company that scripts installs for anything we want. We use it to patch 1,600 windows 2000 desktops/kiosks that we have across the country. We just pushed out service pack 4, SP4 was about 130 MB alone. There has easily been 500+ MB of patches/service packs for win2k that we have had to push down to 1,600 devices. All these devices are connected over a dedicated 128K frame relay. It wasn't fun pushing down all those patches and took a *very* long time. WinXP also has a whole lot of patches and and a huge SP1. This sure doesn't make *me* confident about closed source/proprietary software.
Also, if you had done some reading, you would have read that this has nothing to do with an OS. It happens when a flush cache command is sent to the drive, and it gets fried. Nice try troll.
No, it has everything to do with a poorly desined drive. This is not just specific to Mandrake, or Linux. When you send a command to flush the cache, the drive gets fried. Maybe MS Windows does not ever tell the drive to flush the cache? I don't know. Also, how many people out there are using this drive? How many posted to news groups about it? Basically, there should be *no* command that I can send to *any* device and have that device get fried. It is not like the people at Mandrake are writing their own kernel that sends a self-destruct command to the drive. The kernel is just telling the drive to flush its cache for crying out loud. This is a standard thing to do from time to time, especially when you shutdown or unmount a device to make sure that anything you were reading or writing to a device gets flushed. I bet this has happened to MS windows users as well. Though the typical MS Windows user would just call support and get a new part and not think any more of it. Where as a Linux user usually turns to the community and news groups to find answers and thus this "topic" shows up on /.
I just read a post from Alan Cox, it appears that if you send a flush cache command to the specific LG drives or their compaq rebadged ones, the drive gets fried. So this really has nothing to do with Mandrake and everything to do with a poorly designed drive.
According to Fair Use, it is ours to copy. The law just prevents distribution. So, all these companies using copy control is really depriving consumers of their Fair Use rights. This is one reason why I have not purchased music for about 5 or 6 years now and will continue to not purchase music. Hit the RIAA where it hurts them, in their wallet.
Maybe YOU don't have a chioce but I do. I'll work with C, C++, Java, Perl and Python. Keep the VB away, unless it is to fix a legacy VB app or to port a legacy VB app. I won't touch a new project that uses VB. Where I work they actually LISTEN to the developers on what technology to use. That is why we are using Java and not
Yes we have heard of VB.Net. We just finished a very expensive evalution of Java/J2EE and .Net. We did our own evalution and had 3 independent evalutions done. One was by MS. Everyone selected Java as the superior platform (except for MS of course) for security, scalabilty, roubustness. Java has been around longer and has stood the test of time and proven to be a great choice while, .Net has not. Also, .Net would have locked us into just MS which would have been a bad choice.
You can make just about any web app in just about any language scale. You can by Cisco content switches that load balance between many servers. If you have 100 webservers, even an old CGI could scale. Most big sites are not scaled out by choice of language, but by choice of the architecture.