If I may plug a project - www.openacs.org
It's somewhere half in between the 'php/mysql' solution and the full-blown, commercially supported shrinkwrapped package.
Very active community, quite a few companies that will build-to-order for you based upon it (if commercial offering & support is an issue for you) and with many (large) organisations depending on it, it won't go away very soon.
Only drawback - it takes a learning curve, it's a mature toolkit and you really need to spend some time with the (plentiful) documentation.
NO - that's not ok. How is the victim (i.e. the one 'visited' by the vigilante) to know that the vigilante just poked around and didn't leave any nasty things behind? Who's to say it actually was a vigilante and not, say, a competitor faking to be one?
General security best practices say: if a system is compromised, rebuild. Rebuilding systems cost time. Time is money. Vigilante actions result in monetary damage.
It's not ok.
Being also a EU citizen (living in The Netherlands), I have to stronly object against your point of view.
It's irrational to have a full fledged referendum for all countries (44) that are member of the COE. That way new PROPOSALS to laws will never pass.
I also have the idea that you do not argue from a very informed perspective.
Things like this works as follows:
- we (the people in individual countries) have during the years *choosen* for governmenents that are pro-European
- hence the European community as a whole has become more important. WE have agreed upon the fact that it is a good thing that the EUC handles a number of inter-governmental things. The COE is also a consequence of this movement.
- it's the EUC/COE's job to worry about things like for example discrimination, torturing of people etc. Because *we* (at least most of us apperently) indicated at large that we don't like people being attacked (verbally of otherwise) because they are black, white, muslim, hindu or whatever. As a society we decided that this kind of things is not done.
- Now the COE comes up with a PROPOSAL to outlaw these kind of things.
- If the individual countries governments agree with this, THEN and only THEN it becomes law. And this decission is made by the governments WE choose. Also the individual countries are free to hold a referendum if the issue is very important.
I agree this is a very complex system, and that the individual has only a limited influence if at all (but you can form pressure groups of course).
However creating a good place to live for around 400 Million people is tough. And the way we do it in Europe is one way of doing it - a way in which the net end result is that the community as a whole drives the situation in a certain direction. May be not always directly your way - but at least a way *most* people find acceptable. That's what it takes to life together in peace.
Every large community has its own way - China, US, Europe. Which way is best? I don't know - I do know however that it is difficult to create an environment where over 6 billion people can live a decent life (i.e. have food, a roof and no fear for violence etc.). The only thing we can do is try out different systems and let it evolve. Sure thing the EU system is a system that evolves - unlike the US system which seems held hostage in centuries old rules that lately has done a good job making the rich people richer, the free people more free and keeping the mushrooms in the dark and well fed.
To cut a long story short: it may one day have been a good thing to have total free speech - nowadays some forms of speech hurt our society at large - and then it becomes time to set limits in the benefit of us all. Of course we should set limits carefully, however I believe the current (EU) system will make sure that care is taken.
----- About the COE
Any European state can become a member of the Council of Europe provided it accepts the principle of the rule of law and guarantees human rights and fundamental freedoms to everyone under its jurisdiction.
The Council of Europe is an intergovernmental organisation which aims:
- to protect human rights, pluralist democracy and the rule of law; - to promote awareness and encourage the development of Europe's cultural identity and diversity; - to seek solutions to problems facing European society (discrimination against minorities, xenophobia, intolerance, environmental protection, human cloning, Aids, drugs, organised crime, etc.); - to help consolidate democratic stability in Europe by backing political, legislative and constitutional reform.
The Council of Europe should not be confused with the European Union. The two organisations are quite distinct. The 15 European Union states, however, are all members of the Council of Europe.
Just tried with IE 5.0 SP2 and didn't work - got an error box saying: Internet Explorer cannot open site "javascript:document.write("")"
Operation aborted
Re:Barriers to Knowledge, and Business Models
on
The Future of Ideas
·
· Score: 1
>> >>But the fact is that barriers to accessing information create wealth. So in order for those barriers to come down, alternative means to create wealth must be created.
And he's right on this one...
>> Why?
It all boils down to a very basic mentality issue we all suffer from. It's the very same issue as why currently capitalism - although not the most elegant IMHO - is the only form of organising society that has a chance to stay on its feet.
I could come up with a whole host of arguments, though instead I'd like one to consider the following;
It's highly likely that in a not-so-far future we [as humanity] reach a state in which we can foresee in all our needs without requiring the labour of each individual (in fact we already can up to some level). However, the way (most of) society is organised nowadays, there is no way at all to deal with this condition. If you don't work you get a penalty. Not because your labour is strictly required, but because of the model we use [to create, measure and deal with wealth].
Why? Because it matters that my car is bigger then yours. To you, to me and to most around us.
Slashdot Mirror
If I may plug a project - www.openacs.org It's somewhere half in between the 'php/mysql' solution and the full-blown, commercially supported shrinkwrapped package. Very active community, quite a few companies that will build-to-order for you based upon it (if commercial offering & support is an issue for you) and with many (large) organisations depending on it, it won't go away very soon. Only drawback - it takes a learning curve, it's a mature toolkit and you really need to spend some time with the (plentiful) documentation.
NO - that's not ok. How is the victim (i.e. the one 'visited' by the vigilante) to know that the vigilante just poked around and didn't leave any nasty things behind? Who's to say it actually was a vigilante and not, say, a competitor faking to be one? General security best practices say: if a system is compromised, rebuild. Rebuilding systems cost time. Time is money. Vigilante actions result in monetary damage. It's not ok.
Being also a EU citizen (living in The Netherlands),
I have to stronly object against your point of view.
It's irrational to have a full fledged referendum for all countries (44) that are member of the COE. That way new PROPOSALS to laws will never pass.
I also have the idea that you do not argue from a very informed perspective.
Things like this works as follows:
- we (the people in individual countries) have during the years *choosen* for governmenents that are pro-European
- hence the European community as a whole has become more important. WE have agreed upon the fact that it is a good thing that the EUC handles a number of inter-governmental things. The COE is also a consequence of this movement.
- it's the EUC/COE's job to worry about things like for example discrimination, torturing of people etc. Because *we* (at least most of us apperently) indicated at large that we don't like people being attacked (verbally of otherwise) because they are black, white, muslim, hindu or whatever. As a society we decided that this kind of things is not done.
- Now the COE comes up with a PROPOSAL to outlaw these kind of things.
- If the individual countries governments agree with this, THEN and only THEN it becomes law. And this decission is made by the governments WE choose. Also the individual countries are free to hold a referendum if the issue is very important.
I agree this is a very complex system, and that the individual has only a limited influence if at all (but you can form pressure groups of course).
However creating a good place to live for around 400 Million people is tough. And the way we do it in Europe is one way of doing it - a way in which the net end result is that the community as a whole drives the situation in a certain direction. May be not always directly your way - but at least a way *most* people find acceptable. That's what it takes to life together in peace.
Every large community has its own way - China, US, Europe. Which way is best? I don't know - I do know however that it is difficult to create an environment where over 6 billion people can live a decent life (i.e. have food, a roof and no fear for violence etc.). The only thing we can do is try out different systems and let it evolve. Sure thing the EU system is a system that evolves - unlike the US system which seems held hostage in centuries old rules that lately has done a good job making the rich people richer, the free people more free and keeping the mushrooms in the dark and well fed.
To cut a long story short: it may one day have been a good thing to have total free speech - nowadays some forms of speech hurt our society at large - and then it becomes time to set limits in the benefit of us all. Of course we should set limits carefully, however I believe the current (EU) system will make sure that care is taken.
----- About the COE
Any European state can become a member of the Council of Europe provided it accepts the principle of the rule of law and guarantees human rights and fundamental freedoms to everyone under its jurisdiction.
The Council of Europe is an intergovernmental organisation which aims:
- to protect human rights, pluralist democracy and the rule of law;
- to promote awareness and encourage the development of Europe's cultural identity and diversity;
- to seek solutions to problems facing European society (discrimination against minorities, xenophobia, intolerance, environmental protection, human cloning, Aids, drugs, organised crime, etc.);
- to help consolidate democratic stability in Europe by backing political, legislative and constitutional reform.
The Council of Europe should not be confused with the European Union. The two organisations are quite distinct. The 15 European Union states, however, are all members of the Council of Europe.
--- END COE
Just tried with IE 5.0 SP2 and didn't work - got an error box saying:
Internet Explorer cannot open site "javascript:document.write("")"
Operation aborted
And he's right on this one
>> Why?
It all boils down to a very basic mentality issue we all suffer from. It's the very same issue as why currently capitalism - although not the most elegant IMHO - is the only form of organising society that has a chance to stay on its feet.
I could come up with a whole host of arguments, though instead I'd like one to consider the following;
It's highly likely that in a not-so-far future we [as humanity] reach a state in which we can foresee in all our needs without requiring the labour of each individual (in fact we already can up to some level). However, the way (most of) society is organised nowadays, there is no way at all to deal with this condition. If you don't work you get a penalty. Not because your labour is strictly required, but because of the model we use [to create, measure and deal with wealth].
Why? Because it matters that my car is bigger then yours. To you, to me and to most around us.