>Services such as DNS and the like are unrelated >to co-location -- if you put your own boxen > somewhere you should have one to handle DNS > requests as > well. I would concentrate on the > power, space, and bandwidth issues and leave the >extra services to the customers
DNS is vital if you plan on having our customers be able to host their own domain, at least two are required to register a domain name and host it on your own machine. DNS is a simple service to provide to customers. At the very least someone has to be the secondary DNS server, you can let the customer be their own primary, which gives them control over setting up additional hosts. THen we just provide a server as secondaries. ------------------------------------ ---------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Very true, the IETF is working on a transport method.. the payload protocol is still undecieded.
I read the orig question as asking what protocol would be used to broadcast the actual data. That is undecieded. I think we are all in agreement that it will be tcpip using UDP or Multicast. But that actual data encoding method could be Real or MPEG-x or seomthing completey new (and hopefully open)
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Hmm, when i first read the orig question it sounded like complete FUD and flamebait. BUT the core question is a valid one...
The REAL Problem: We need a universal streaming data protocol. Audio/Video/Stocks/Weather (anything) Obv there would have to be content based compression, audio compresses diferently than video or a stream of weather data.
The REAL Solution: Do it the old fassioned way, the proven way. START A RFC.. or build on existing ones.
The only reason the internet has become so popular is because the basic underlying protocols are OPEN and well described/understood. In fact one can extend this thread of thinking to say: The only protocols we have problems with are the ones that are not well described or OPEN. http/ftp/telnet/gopher/nntp/smtp all very well understood and open protocols... REALplayer and MS _Very_ closed...
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
A better solution to simply piping to gz is to also pipe through "split" and split it up into chunks, then you can use "cat" and pipe it back to a psql monitor to reload the db... (Also works great for splitting up a dump to fit onto cdr's)
ie: pg_dump |gz |split -b 670m
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Like most ppl, this guy completely misses the point about NCing. He seems to thing that NCing takes the "power" away from the user... But the power to do what? Work? I think not. Users mostly object to not being able to install thier own "screensavers" and "games" at work in an NC environ. Its not about taking anything away from the users, its ALL about giving control back to the admin and management, after all their paying the bills. The simple fact that with NC you never have to replace another HD, or GHOST a machine back to a working state. If you need to upgrade your client software, you update the one and only version on the server and never have to touch each workstation.
People say "Well what if the server crashes?"... My simple answer to that is... What happens if the server crashes with PC's on the desktop? Do your users keep working? Do you really want them to? If your users are storing company data on their local HDD's you have a whole host of other issues. Even in the PC world, if the server crashes, Users need to stop working. And quite simply, A properly tended Linux (yea)/Solaris (ick) server will not crash.
Enough rambling
Viva Xterminals!
-Matt (mhoskins)
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
GP makes a special line of lumber for home depot. (Well not exactly, they dont limit selling it to home depot, but no one else really wants it.) It IS for the most part old-growth and very much lower grade...That is why it is not rated. GP calles it "Q" grade lumber. And it is about $0.015 cheaper per board/ft than lets say "b" grade. ($0.015 is a lot when you buy like them.) In short it is cheaper, and crappier. I wouldnt built a house with it.
Matthew Hoskins Hoskins Do-it Best Hardware and Supply Manager/Co-owner (we run Linux) ------------------------------------------ ---- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
I hope they use Win95... I'm biased:) I own a Home center/Hardware Store in NJ. We have 4 (!) Home Depot's in our immediate area. And actually we're doing quite well.
We help and support all our customers. We dont make you wait on line for 10 minutes. We have almost everything you need, and can order the rest. And... We run on Linux!:-)
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Tape is more reliable. And if you ever work for a company that is audited by its shareholders regularly you will find that you are required to keep backups around for quite some time... For instance. A financial inst. may keep backups of the transaction journal forever! An insurance company i once did work for was required to keep weekly grandfather and daily incremental backups for 5 years... thats a lot of storage for HDDs:-) --------------------------------------------- - bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Exactly, I've been using Tar and Cpio to do backups of 20 and 40 gig raid volumes with no hickups... Could it be simply that travan tape drives suck? I've never gotten them to perform up to my standards of reliability... Use dat or DLT ---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Running database servers and a workstation on daul PII 333's on a Tyan ThunderII mobo. Was running kernel 2.1.132 but migrating to 2.2 now. Been very stable and kick a$$ performance. Pumps out 3Mkps doing RC5 too:)
The DB server has a 40GB raid volume which has also performed perfectly. Very snappy.
Linux is cool:)
---------------------------------------------- bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Slashdot Mirror
>Services such as DNS and the like are unrelated
- ----------
>to co-location -- if you put your own boxen
> somewhere you should have one to handle DNS
> requests as
> well. I would concentrate on the
> power, space, and bandwidth issues and leave the
>extra services to the customers
DNS is vital if you plan on having our customers be able to host their own domain, at least two are required to register a domain name and host it on your own machine. DNS is a simple service to provide to customers. At the very least someone has to be the secondary DNS server, you can let the customer be their own primary, which gives them control over setting up additional hosts. THen we just provide a server as secondaries.
-----------------------------------
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Very true, the IETF is working on a transport method.. the payload protocol is still undecieded.
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
I read the orig question as asking what protocol would be used to broadcast the actual data. That is undecieded. I think we are all in agreement that it will be tcpip using UDP or Multicast.
But that actual data encoding method could be Real or MPEG-x or seomthing completey new (and hopefully open)
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Hmm, when i first read the orig question it sounded like complete FUD and flamebait.
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
BUT the core question is a valid one...
The REAL Problem: We need a universal streaming data protocol. Audio/Video/Stocks/Weather (anything) Obv there would have to be content based compression, audio compresses diferently than video or a stream of weather data.
The REAL Solution: Do it the old fassioned way, the proven way. START A RFC.. or build on existing ones.
The only reason the internet has become so popular is because the basic underlying protocols are OPEN and well described/understood. In fact one can extend this thread of thinking to say: The only protocols we have problems with are the ones that are not well described or OPEN. http/ftp/telnet/gopher/nntp/smtp all very well understood and open protocols... REALplayer and MS _Very_ closed...
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
A better solution to simply piping to gz is to also pipe through "split" and split it up into chunks, then you can use "cat" and pipe it back to a psql monitor to reload the db... (Also works great for splitting up a dump to fit onto cdr's)
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
ie: pg_dump |gz |split -b 670m
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Like most ppl, this guy completely misses the point about NCing. He seems to thing that NCing takes the "power" away from the user... But the power to do what? Work? I think not. Users mostly object to not being able to install thier own "screensavers" and "games" at work in an NC environ.
/Solaris (ick) server will not crash.
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
Its not about taking anything away from the users, its ALL about giving control back to the admin and management, after all their paying the bills.
The simple fact that with NC you never have to replace another HD, or GHOST a machine back to a working state.
If you need to upgrade your client software, you update the one and only version on the server and never have to touch each workstation.
People say "Well what if the server crashes?"... My simple answer to that is... What happens if the server crashes with PC's on the desktop? Do your users keep working? Do you really want them to?
If your users are storing company data on their local HDD's you have a whole host of other issues. Even in the PC world, if the server crashes, Users need to stop working. And quite simply, A properly tended Linux (yea)
Enough rambling
Viva Xterminals!
-Matt (mhoskins)
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
www.thelinuxstore.com runs on NT.. I just thought this was interesting.
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
Check for yourself: http://www.netcraft.com/w hats/?host=www.thelinuxstore.com
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
GP makes a special line of lumber for home depot. (Well not exactly, they dont limit selling it to home depot, but no one else really wants it.) It IS for the most part old-growth and very much lower grade...That is why it is not rated. GP calles it "Q" grade lumber. And it is about $0.015 cheaper per board/ft than lets say "b" grade. ($0.015 is a lot when you buy like them.)
- ----
In short it is cheaper, and crappier. I wouldnt built a house with it.
Matthew Hoskins
Hoskins Do-it Best Hardware and Supply
Manager/Co-owner
(we run Linux)
-----------------------------------------
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
I hope they use Win95... I'm biased :)
:-)
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
I own a Home center/Hardware Store in NJ. We have 4 (!) Home Depot's in our immediate area. And actually we're doing quite well.
We help and support all our customers.
We dont make you wait on line for 10 minutes.
We have almost everything you need, and can order the rest.
And... We run on Linux!
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Tape is more reliable. And if you ever work for a company that is audited by its shareholders regularly you will find that you are required to keep backups around for quite some time... For instance. A financial inst. may keep backups of the transaction journal forever! An insurance company i once did work for was required to keep weekly grandfather and daily incremental backups for 5 years... thats a lot of storage for HDDs :-)- -
--------------------------------------------
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Exactly, I've been using Tar and Cpio to do backups of 20 and 40 gig raid volumes with no hickups... Could it be simply that travan tape drives suck? I've never gotten them to perform up to my standards of reliability... Use dat or DLT
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle
Running database servers and a workstation on daul PII 333's on a Tyan ThunderII mobo. Was running kernel 2.1.132 but migrating to 2.2 now. Been very stable and kick a$$ performance. Pumps out 3Mkps doing RC5 too :)
:)
bash# lynx http://www.slashdot.org >>/dev/geek
The DB server has a 40GB raid volume which has also performed perfectly. Very snappy.
Linux is cool
----------------------------------------------
Matt on IRC, Nick: Tuttle