If we're using Free sofware because software ought to be free, then using proprietary software doesn't make sense
Who is we - Stallman and a few thousand of his fellow extremists? He doesn't represent Open Source.
And the fact of the matter is that open source is growing up (Linus is 35 now), and people are realizing that proprietary and open source are the best for choice...something that Stallman hates.
Stallman's silly analogies are always weak except to weak-minded people that follow his dogma.
Yes, RMS quite often sounds like a zealot, thats because he is..
Yeah, that's one of his problems.
But what is wrong with persuing something so passionately?
I'm sure Stalin and Hitler were passionate about killing people.
You seriously seem to need to adjust your glasses/perspective on life.
You need to wake up to reality if you can't see what Stallman is really about. Just because he's "passionate" about something doesn't mean it's a good thing. I guess you're one of those that will give him a pass because of whatever perceived good he's done. Frankly, I don't care.
But it's obvious that you don't want links being posted that put in Stallman in a bad light, and that's your problem, not mine.
Politburo is pretty apropos. Stallman has talked about some government funded "free" software bureaucracy on more than one occasion.
So typical of Stallman. It's so clear that he's a megalomaniac where it's all about control and not about free code. Look at how he treated Ulrich Drepper and how he compared proprietary software developers to murderers and perjuring cops.
But the compiler being GPL, the runtime being LGPL, and the libraries being MIT/X11 are too much for this guy too handle.
Seriously, they're an MS shop who is used to using Visual Studio. The most natural, non-painful migration is to write code using C# and Gtk# or possibly winforms (depending on the maturity of Mono's effort) in Visual Studio on Windows and just copy the binaries or re-compile on Unix until such time that MonoDevelop or some other IDE is mature enough to use.
These are VB guys we're talking about. They're just going to laugh at you if you throw them in front of a Unix workstation and tell them to fire up Emacs or Vim.
There still seems to be no definite answer to that question.
Has Zeta made an official announcement in regards to the kernel source?
During my one week of playing around with various BeOS flavors I heard that the kernel is pretty modular, but I would presume that can only take you so far.
I think it's only fair to their customers to make a definitive statement one way or the other.
Maybe you're right and maybe I'm just afraid (as a programmer) to see the superior KDE/Qt framework go into niche status eventually because of the Qt license.
Somewhat offtopic, but on irc today I heard that some guy that worked at Novell/Suse on KDE is moving on to work at Intel in their "Linux Desktop" division (whatever that means).
I was thinking about this the other day after watching the BrainShare video.
All the stuff that will actually increase sales is based on Suse (clustering, Xen, etc...).
Why didn't they try to buy Trolltech instead of Ximian.
I just don't see how Mono is going to help the bottom line in the near term.
Heck, I would've have bought Trolltech, and slapped some proprietary apps into Suse. There's got to be a competitive advantage somewhere, and I don't know how just services is going to give them that.
Suse was already pretty much a KDE distro, and buying Trolltech would have given them two things.
(1) The ability to change the Qt license to a more liberal one.
(2) Bring in the talent of Trolltech that is already accustomed to working with Suse.
KDE/QT still has a superior framework to Gnome/Gtk+, but frankly I see the Qt license being the one showstopper that will push Gnome/Gtk+ into the "standard" desktop category, once Linux on the desktop actually matters.
Government bureaucrats can't help themselves from trying to control everything.
Of course what the UN really wants to do is censor the internet.
And of course they have 0 chance of getting their greedy mitts on it, but that doesn't stop them from babbling on about everything else they want to control
I've been impressed with Kdevelop since the 3.x rewrite (Gideon).
It has a plugin architecture, is native, and even has a decent vi editor kpart via yzis.
And I believe the killer feature of Kdevelop is the ability to import autotools projects - which is basically everything in the open source world.
Eclipse (CDT/C++ plugin) doesn't have this ability yet.
The other night I imported KDElibs straight from cvs, it parsed everything out, I had my class browser with the entire kdelibs project there, changed some configure options, and built the whole thing within the IDE.
The problem is that the Eclipse user interface is horrible - at least for Java programming, and compared to IDEA or NetBeans. The whole project management is goofy in my opinion.
I think that issue is orthogonal to the architecture of Eclipse. I've heard the reason they keep that crap is because of WebSphere.
I care not about politics, especially when it comes to bits and bytes. If the software I need costs money, I will just buy it. If it happens to be Free/free, even better! But I don't care about any "movements" and "religions" or "politics".
I think we take our freedom a lot more seriously than many around here if they get their panties in a bunch over bits and bytes.
The extremists over at the FSF are a miniscule minority compared to the overall open source crowd - and not even the same group.
I'm running KDE 3.4 and it rocks, but you just don't get it. Linux on the desktop is miniscule right now, but eventually it might have a significant market share.
Think if glibc was controlled by some small company with a dual-licensing scheme like Trolltech - obviously it would have to be rewritten.
The KDE fantatics can bury their heads in the sand, but even with a technologically superior framework, Gnome/Gtk+'s superior license will win out in the end.
I had always wished that IBM would have bought out Trolltech years ago and produced a kickass desktop.
Ubuntu is Gnome. Kubuntu is a community run effort to bring KDE to the Ubuntu platform.
I think Kubuntu has the opportunity to be big. I was running Ubuntu since about October or so, switching to Hoary about a month ago, but yesterday switched to Gentoo and KDE just to see what's happening in the KDE world after a couple years of running Gnome. Gnome isn't exactly zippy even on fast machines. I love Gnome, but KDE 3.4 is a freaking speed demon.
Maybe it should be Ubuntu assimilates the few users of United Linux.
I asked Jeff Waugh about this a few months ago on irc and he had said that Mark Shuttleworth and Bruce Perens had talked before, but nothing about a merger.
I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.
And at this point in linux history I don't think a little consolidation of efforts is a bad thing.
We ditched Python for Java for much of our management tools because lack of argument types and return types make cool stuff like intellisense as well just all around documentation next to impossible in Python.
I don't care about local method variables having types declared, but to me it makes a lot of sense for method arguments and return types.
And before you flame me, you better go read Guido's blogs over at artima.com because that's one of the reasons he's going to put in optional type declarations in Python 3000.
Slashdot Mirror
That's the problem with the Stallmanists and why they always lose their arguments. They try to anthropomorphize code, which is obviously silly.
Look at your parent. He's either trolling or so mentally disturbed that he thinks software is SkyNet or something.
Here's another one where Stallman compares proprietary developers to perjuring cops and murderers.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html
If we're using Free sofware because software ought to be free, then using proprietary software doesn't make sense
Who is we - Stallman and a few thousand of his fellow extremists? He doesn't represent Open Source.
And the fact of the matter is that open source is growing up (Linus is 35 now), and people are realizing that proprietary and open source are the best for choice...something that Stallman hates.
Stallman's silly analogies are always weak except to weak-minded people that follow his dogma.
The struggle between the so-called RMS-wing of OSS and the practical Linus-wing of OSS is eventually going to have to resolve these differences.
d =12503
There are fundamental differences that most likely won't be resolved any time soon (as long as RMS is around).
Here's an excellent writeup about the different philosophies of the RMS-wing and the OSS-wing of FOSS
http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_i
Yes, RMS quite often sounds like a zealot, thats because he is..
Yeah, that's one of his problems.
But what is wrong with persuing something so passionately?
I'm sure Stalin and Hitler were passionate about killing people.
You seriously seem to need to adjust your glasses/perspective on life.
You need to wake up to reality if you can't see what Stallman is really about. Just because he's "passionate" about something doesn't mean it's a good thing. I guess you're one of those that will give him a pass because of whatever perceived good he's done. Frankly, I don't care.
But it's obvious that you don't want links being posted that put in Stallman in a bad light, and that's your problem, not mine.
Politburo is pretty apropos. Stallman has talked about some government funded "free" software bureaucracy on more than one occasion.
1 1&mode=thread&tid=117
So typical of Stallman. It's so clear that he's a megalomaniac where it's all about control and not about free code. Look at how he treated Ulrich Drepper and how he compared proprietary software developers to murderers and perjuring cops.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/19/20392
yeah...really. i'd like to know too. this whole article was bizarre...and where was the reference to paying money?
And I switched over from Hoary to Gentoo because everytime they would release a big Gnome/X update on Hoary everything would turn to molasses.
I'm running whatever pre-release version of Gnome that Gentoo has in the hard mask and it's running faster than Warty or Hoary ever did.
Epiphany seems to be faster than FireFox too for some reason.
But the compiler being GPL, the runtime being LGPL, and the libraries being MIT/X11 are too much for this guy too handle.
Seriously, they're an MS shop who is used to using Visual Studio. The most natural, non-painful migration is to write code using C# and Gtk# or possibly winforms (depending on the maturity of Mono's effort) in Visual Studio on Windows and just copy the binaries or re-compile on Unix until such time that MonoDevelop or some other IDE is mature enough to use.
These are VB guys we're talking about. They're just going to laugh at you if you throw them in front of a Unix workstation and tell them to fire up Emacs or Vim.
Bahahaa. Mono's multiple licenses are too much? Let's see. The compiler is GPL, the runtime is LGPL, and the libraries are MIT/X11.
Let's hope this guy's boss doesn't know about this post and realize that he can't hold 3 simple concepts in his head at one time.
There still seems to be no definite answer to that question.
Has Zeta made an official announcement in regards to the kernel source?
During my one week of playing around with various BeOS flavors I heard that the kernel is pretty modular, but I would presume that can only take you so far.
I think it's only fair to their customers to make a definitive statement one way or the other.
Maybe you're right and maybe I'm just afraid (as a programmer) to see the superior KDE/Qt framework go into niche status eventually because of the Qt license.
Somewhat offtopic, but on irc today I heard that some guy that worked at Novell/Suse on KDE is moving on to work at Intel in their "Linux Desktop" division (whatever that means).
I was thinking about this the other day after watching the BrainShare video.
All the stuff that will actually increase sales is based on Suse (clustering, Xen, etc...).
Why didn't they try to buy Trolltech instead of Ximian.
I just don't see how Mono is going to help the bottom line in the near term.
Heck, I would've have bought Trolltech, and slapped some proprietary apps into Suse. There's got to be a competitive advantage somewhere, and I don't know how just services is going to give them that.
Suse was already pretty much a KDE distro, and buying Trolltech would have given them two things.
(1) The ability to change the Qt license to a more liberal one.
(2) Bring in the talent of Trolltech that is already accustomed to working with Suse.
KDE/QT still has a superior framework to Gnome/Gtk+, but frankly I see the Qt license being the one showstopper that will push Gnome/Gtk+ into the "standard" desktop category, once Linux on the desktop actually matters.
People realize today that the governments worldwide have to play a role.
What he really means is that UN socialists believe that the UN should control everything and everyone because bureaucrats know best.
Government bureaucrats can't help themselves from trying to control everything.
Of course what the UN really wants to do is censor the internet.
And of course they have 0 chance of getting their greedy mitts on it, but that doesn't stop them from babbling on about everything else they want to control
I've been impressed with Kdevelop since the 3.x rewrite (Gideon).
It has a plugin architecture, is native, and even has a decent vi editor kpart via yzis.
And I believe the killer feature of Kdevelop is the ability to import autotools projects - which is basically everything in the open source world.
Eclipse (CDT/C++ plugin) doesn't have this ability yet.
The other night I imported KDElibs straight from cvs, it parsed everything out, I had my class browser with the entire kdelibs project there, changed some configure options, and built the whole thing within the IDE.
The problem is that the Eclipse user interface is horrible - at least for Java programming, and compared to IDEA or NetBeans. The whole project management is goofy in my opinion.
I think that issue is orthogonal to the architecture of Eclipse. I've heard the reason they keep that crap is because of WebSphere.
I care not about politics, especially when it comes to bits and bytes. If the software I need costs money, I will just buy it. If it happens to be Free/free, even better! But I don't care about any "movements" and "religions" or "politics".
d =12503/
I think we take our freedom a lot more seriously than many around here if they get their panties in a bunch over bits and bytes.
The extremists over at the FSF are a miniscule minority compared to the overall open source crowd - and not even the same group.
http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_i
I'm running KDE 3.4 and it rocks, but you just don't get it. Linux on the desktop is miniscule right now, but eventually it might have a significant market share.
Think if glibc was controlled by some small company with a dual-licensing scheme like Trolltech - obviously it would have to be rewritten.
The KDE fantatics can bury their heads in the sand, but even with a technologically superior framework, Gnome/Gtk+'s superior license will win out in the end.
I had always wished that IBM would have bought out Trolltech years ago and produced a kickass desktop.
You won't need to upgrade your hardware. They were running on crappy i810 and ATI 7200 cards.
Remember, your lucky to get decent 2d acceleration out of your cards on linux right now (Nvidia and RenderAccel as the exception).
All those transistors in your GPUs just sit twiddling their thumbs 99.9% of the time.
Ubuntu is Gnome. Kubuntu is a community run effort to bring KDE to the Ubuntu platform.
I think Kubuntu has the opportunity to be big. I was running Ubuntu since about October or so, switching to Hoary about a month ago, but yesterday switched to Gentoo and KDE just to see what's happening in the KDE world after a couple years of running Gnome. Gnome isn't exactly zippy even on fast machines. I love Gnome, but KDE 3.4 is a freaking speed demon.
Maybe it should be Ubuntu assimilates the few users of United Linux.
I asked Jeff Waugh about this a few months ago on irc and he had said that Mark Shuttleworth and Bruce Perens had talked before, but nothing about a merger.
I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.
And at this point in linux history I don't think a little consolidation of efforts is a bad thing.
We ditched Python for Java for much of our management tools because lack of argument types and return types make cool stuff like intellisense as well just all around documentation next to impossible in Python.
I don't care about local method variables having types declared, but to me it makes a lot of sense for method arguments and return types.
And before you flame me, you better go read Guido's blogs over at artima.com because that's one of the reasons he's going to put in optional type declarations in Python 3000.
I think "for fun" is the apropos term here.
The problem with Squeak, and Smalltalk environments in general, are the deployment options are fairly limited.
Uhh, how about it looks like Gnome.
Surprise, surprise Gnome runs on more than Linux. Geez