There's definitely something going down, though I will admit that we don't have the full picture there yet.
I wish more people would go through the Wikileaks dumps on Turkey to help find out, because there just aren't a lot of good sources of information there yet.
Thanks. IIRC, unless I've got names confused, you're actually an independent too, which I respect, even if I might disagree on specifics.
There's a lot of information here and I keep organizing it in my own posts just so I can keep track of things, so I completely understand how confusing it gets, especially if we jump back and forth between the different things that happened.
By all means, do your best to keep me honest. I'm only human and I make my choices based on the best evidence available to me. I suspect, but cannot prove, that there's an entire dimension of all of this that we won't know about until people are reading history books and everything is declassified and I will happily change tunes if and when other evidence becomes available to me.
Until then, the best I can do is to push for a firmly empirical approach to discerning truth. It's the most reliable method we have.
Hollywood notions? I've been talking about tailored access program of the NSA here and things like TEMPEST that are well known, actual spying tools. Here's the kind of actual Russian spying we discovered back in the 50s. Can you tell me where Hollywood plays into any of this?
The burden of proof to say "it's Russia" is on you. Pray tell what special knowledge do you have, when you're apparently not even familiar with this stuff? Go on, please tell me about your deep knowledge of nation state hacking. It's sad when I have more classified info than you guys (linked above) and your side is claiming we can rely on assurances they won't prove. Oh, don't get me wrong--they will come out with some document next month, but I expect more BS based on their poor track record so far.
Looking at actual nation state hacks, actual nation states try for durable compromise of their targets,. The statue lasted 7 years. We can also see that because the TAO hardware with backdoors that survive being wiped and the stealthy exfiltration mechanisms. Getting 2 days worth of access to something (as with Podesta's Gmail) is not worth much to a nation state. They'd rather compromise an insider at Google or something and get access to Gmail in its entirety (the NSA likely has that access, incidentally). Hacks are most often caught inserting or exfiltrating the data, which is why they try to minimize the time they have to spend doing that.
Frankly only a complete moron would think that Russia has to stoop to 419-style phishing to hack a target (see elsewhere in this story for abundant evidence of this). Nation states target things like ISPs and large providers so they don't have to do silly one-off hacks most of the time. Inasmuch as you can convince us the DNC is completely incompetent for falling for this (perhaps the only thing I can agree on), I'm glad they're not running the country.
With the facts so badly against you, I can only wonder why you refuse to reconsider your biases here.
My approach is similar to this video, just replacing "pay me" with "prove it" in response to the allegations. I can't believe how many times I've heard excuses for why it's okay for a lame duck to screw diplomacy on the way out over evidence they won't give us (because it doesn't exist).
If they're not going to give us the evidence, I'm not going to believe them. It's really that simple. It's how credibility works. There are plenty of things I can verify that contradict them. If they told us they had classified data that proved global warming false, surely you'd be sensible enough not to believe that, right?
Anything other approach leads us straight back to wars for oil based on lies, instead of having the US join hands with Russia and Turkey to crush Isis.
On that front, it's just amazing how the people who the other week were yelling about the dangers of a diplomatic faux pas by answering a telephone call from Taiwan are suddenly cool with expelling all those Russian diplomats and trying to screw Israel over, while meanwhile Russia is making peace with Turkey (which suffered a coup attempt linked to an Islamic cleric in US exile) and Islamic radicals are murdering Russian diplomats....
Go on, tell us about your expert knowledge of nation state level hacking, I'm waiting.
These cheap, noisy attacks lead to maybe a few days worth of compromise if the allegations are to be believed (which is questionable). They're far more interested in durable access, as is evidenced by the collection of real spy hardware they worked to install with advanced methods of nearly undetectable exfiltration used by actual nation states which I linked to above.
They not only could, but have shown us past hacking devices actually attributed to Russia in the past. Here's a famous example: http://hackaday.com/2015/12/08...
Going to rely on allegations of secret knowledge that you can't show anybody? It's funny how your views on verifiable evidence flip around when politics come into play and suddenly we're supposed to trust all the same institutions that have proven willing and able to lie for political reasons in the recent past, a far less unified front than CNN would have you believe.
What happened? You were much more sensible about that sort of thing when arguing against idiotic global warming deniers.
> Really? When you receive a phishing email saying "click here to reset your Gmail password", your first thought is "OMG the Russians are in my network!"? Really? What the hell does "tips them off to the fact that you're in their network" even mean in this case - he gave them his GMAIL password.
You're confusing leaks, which is just sad because I wrote a guide to help people keep the three different leaks clear. This report is related to the DNC leaks which alleged the presence of RATs, etc. being found after an investigation caused by the emails being leaked to Wikileaks. Podesta was phished in a completely separate incident.
Those are two completely separate items, and there were reports of phishing leading to a malware download in some of the reports on the DNC leak, which is the incident I was talking about. I can see why you conflated that with the more famous phishing in the Podesta dump. It's really easy to conflate all this information (by design).
Ironically, even if we go to just the Podesta dump, the actual phishing email specifically claimed that Podesta should worry about Ukrainian hackers from 134.249.139.239. Quoting from the thread in relevant part:
> Someone just used your password to try to sign in to your Google Account > john.podesta@gmail.com. > > Details: > Saturday, 19 March, 8:34:30 UTC > IP Address: 134.249.139.239 > Location: Ukraine
(emphasis added)
You're also confused here:
> Due to an unfortunate typo by Charles Delavan
It's more than just a "typo" and we covered that on Slashdot when it came up (including yours truly). He also told him to do a password reset--something completely unnecessary for a fake attack. This also ignores the words of Sara Latham in that thread saying: "The gmail one is REAL" This was discussed extensively in the Slashdot story's comments.
Hackers don't normally want a target to realize they're hacked at all. And they were surely tipped off by these sloppy, noisy attacks. Podesta also had other passwords in his email that got used, including someone from 4chan messing with his Twitter account. They're probably sloppy enough to reuse passwords if they fall for this, too. Usually once they own your email they do password resets and leverage the access against other systems.
> Oh I see, you're an uber fan rooting against the other team.
I'm independent. Go check my Slashdot history for me supporting Obama back in 2008 if you like. I'm more than happy to give Colin Powell (and other Republicans, including that member of Trump's staff) their share of blame for bad OPSEC, too, as can be seen from my Slashdot history. I discussed that back here along with the entire email where Hillary & Colin discuss how to break every rule of operational security and worm their ways around the Presidential Records Act in ways that would make Nixon jealous.
Inasmuch as I am partisan, it's because I hate lying.
I hated it when Bush lied. I hate when Hillary & co. lie. Watching Obama trying to sabotage Israel and keep us from working with Russia to crush Isis murderers in Syria is perhaps the most disappointed I've been with him in his entire tenure. When Islamic militants are murdering Russian diplomats, not to mention this other murder by Isis, you have to quest
Your example is one used by police against low level idiot criminals, not against nation states.
The real examples from the long history of actual spying, both by Russians and Americans is significantly more sophisticated, as is clearly evident to anyone with even a passing familiarity regarding the known methods. They have no reason to resort to a pathetic attack like this and it's exactly the kind of noisy thing that gets caught. They don't want temporary access before getting shut out, they want durable access.
Just compare this with a catalog of real spy tools to see what a joke these "hacks" are in contrast. The OWASP copypasta and codwords reads like a low grade PCI auditor's report and even the more pathetic clients usually do better than this.
If anything, doubling down on t his just shows us that the DNC being in power is a threat to US security due to their dangerous incompetence. All of their secrets would be open to every 2-bit script kiddie, let alone actual nation states.
The point is that you wouldn't normally even try something like that first because it's big and obvious and noisy. It tips them off to the fact that you're in their network. The real spies are using sophisticated tools that give them long-lived access that are custom tailored to specific targets, not email blasts reminiscent of a 419 scammer.
But of course you believe that these unsophisticated, low level attacks are a sign of a nation state because a big scary enemy gives you someone to rally against, lest people instead look at the corrupt DNC establishment that sabotaged themselves by sending all the state-level campaign money to Hillary, spending twice as much as Trump, and causing all Democrats to lose one of the most important elections for them in decades.
The party would scatter if they didn't have a Russian boogeyman to rail against, after being shown to have such massive incompetence on a political level and not just a technological one.
Don't worry, I covered Saudi Arabia & Qatar's influence in a comment up here with links to some of the relevant emails.
If anyone wants bonus points, start reading the bylines of all these stories and compare them to the reporters who were working for the DNC, coordinating messaging with them, having their articles reviewed and approved, etc. and feel free to tag the relevant authors as #fakenews on Twitter with a link back to Wikileaks.
> I am really appalled at how many people don't take the Russian interference seriously and blame it on some kind of Democrat/Obama conspiracy.
Even if we believe the claims being made without any real evidence, at worst they're alleged to have revealed the truth to us, the same way the Pentagon Papers did a generation back. Remember, for all the talk of "election" hacks, there have been no credible allegations that any voting machines were tampered with by anyone.
Inasmuch as we are to worry about foreign influence on our elections, why is there no concern over the funding of Clinton by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, places with a terrible human rights record where abuses like modern day slavery can still be found? Places that fund terrorists like ISIS? You know, the people who do this sort of thing? (NSFW - graphic content)
I dunno about you, but I'd rather temporarily work with Russia and take out ISIS than to attempt the reverse.
Your links about Russia basically say that they might be trying to fund people they agree with--so if you don't think the above is also harmful, that's literally hypocritical. I'd personally take a more nuanced view that it matters what they have the politicians in question do with that money, whether they follow the relevant laws, etc.
And it's not like elections can be straight up bought. Let's not forget that Hillary spent twice as much as Trump on this election and lost badly where it counted. It's doubly ironic that it's exactly the same kind of loss she suffered to Obama in the DNC primaries in 2008, where he was focused on delegates and she was focused elsewhere as anyone who watched 538's coverage back in 2008 should remember.
Funny thing, though, the chemical weapons were actually used by the "rebels." And of course we made things so much better by arming the "moderate" Islamic terrorists who just happen to also work with the Daesh (ISIS).
Now Russia & Turkey are over there trying to actually make peace in the region. The rest of the world is laughing at us regarding this, mind you, because most other countries learn more about the CIA's long history of interfering with elections and overthrowing governments, even democratic ones, that we didn't like.
Yes, that's Bernie in the link. These are good words to remember right about now. You can see why he has more real respect among independents like myself than Clinton ever did.
The burden of proof is on the one making allegations of Russian hacking. We know what nation state level hacking looks like thanks, ironically, to Snowden. We know the NSA can intercept your new router in the mail and install a durable backdoor on it that will survive everything you do to it. We know the NSA has TEMPEST vans that can snoop on your screen and keyboard.
The idea that a nation state is left to rely upon low level phishing scams seems laughable at best. Just look to past examples to see that they had better stuff than this.
Here are a few past examples of real hacking. Note how much more sophisticated these attacks were:
Please tell me again why Russia has fallen back to kiddie level phishing scams? Remember, the burden of proof is on the people saying "it's Russia" and I'm not going to let anyone shift that.
When some people tell me that Russel's teapot is in orbit and others say it's not, I'm going to wait for evidence. I can't just average them out and conclude that a teacup or possibly a saucer is up there flying around, if not a whole teapot.
Exactly. Oh, I think there's a list of TOR exit nodes in there, too.
Why do our mighty Russian hackers rely on pathetic phishing scams instead of putting in hardware backdoors by intercepting new hardware in the mail? Why can't they park a TEMPEST van a few miles away and read the passwords from the keyboard? They have Snowden, who revealed the NSA's TAO programs and things like how we're tapping Merkel's phone in Germany.
Are we seriously to believe that these Russian boogeymen are on the same level as your average 419 scammer and the poor, hapless DNC couldn't defend themselves?
I also note that a lot of places talk about "election hacking." That's not at all the same thing as someone in the DNC losing their email to a common scam, there's no evidence of vote tampering and even 538 pointed out how silly that was.
Thing is, we already know what nation state level hacking is. Has everyone just forgotten that we have the TAO program revelations from the NSA?
They're not emailing crappy ass phishing links to idiots or writing powershell scripts, they're using powerful signals intelligence tools like TEMPEST and custom, subverted hardware.
The fact that we fell for this just makes me wonder how much money the DNC has sent to 419 scammers.
> In addition to hacking the DNC, the RNC was also hacked. Though those RNC emails were not made public.
Prove it.
> There is ample evidence of Russia doing similar things in other countries.
The CIA has done the same things. Again, prove it.
> We were attacked, yet some choose to trivialize it as a political issue, instead of realizing that our election process, the basis of democracy in our our Republic, was attacked.
How were we "attacked"? True information about how the DNC is manipulating the press and their own primaries was released. The day when telling us the truth becomes an "attack" is a sad day for democracy.
There's also the minor fact that the CIA's job has basically been to destabilize and overthrow other nations and set up puppet governments there. Just look at the history books about the CIA operations and ask yourself what they're doing today.
They've conflated all manner of "hacks" to make people believe that the voting machines were hacked, never mind Trump winning a state with only paper ballots. They've never produced any kind of evidence, whether to FOIA requests or to Congress. The same press hacks who were caught sending their articles to the DNC for review are now trumpeting anonymous claims from alleged insiders and talking about the hacking as if it were a given.
I don't know about you, but I'm more worried about the fake news that puts us on course for WWIII than I am about Macedonian clickbait sites.
I have half a mind to figure out how to write Firefox extensions so I can add the verified Wikileaks info to make it pop up whenever these articles come out. That is, so you can see who the people writing these articles really are. Because some of these people are self-described "hacks."
Slashdot Mirror
There's definitely something going down, though I will admit that we don't have the full picture there yet.
I wish more people would go through the Wikileaks dumps on Turkey to help find out, because there just aren't a lot of good sources of information there yet.
Thanks. IIRC, unless I've got names confused, you're actually an independent too, which I respect, even if I might disagree on specifics.
There's a lot of information here and I keep organizing it in my own posts just so I can keep track of things, so I completely understand how confusing it gets, especially if we jump back and forth between the different things that happened.
By all means, do your best to keep me honest. I'm only human and I make my choices based on the best evidence available to me. I suspect, but cannot prove, that there's an entire dimension of all of this that we won't know about until people are reading history books and everything is declassified and I will happily change tunes if and when other evidence becomes available to me.
Until then, the best I can do is to push for a firmly empirical approach to discerning truth. It's the most reliable method we have.
Hollywood notions? I've been talking about tailored access program of the NSA here and things like TEMPEST that are well known, actual spying tools. Here's the kind of actual Russian spying we discovered back in the 50s. Can you tell me where Hollywood plays into any of this?
The burden of proof to say "it's Russia" is on you. Pray tell what special knowledge do you have, when you're apparently not even familiar with this stuff? Go on, please tell me about your deep knowledge of nation state hacking. It's sad when I have more classified info than you guys (linked above) and your side is claiming we can rely on assurances they won't prove. Oh, don't get me wrong--they will come out with some document next month, but I expect more BS based on their poor track record so far.
Looking at actual nation state hacks, actual nation states try for durable compromise of their targets,. The statue lasted 7 years. We can also see that because the TAO hardware with backdoors that survive being wiped and the stealthy exfiltration mechanisms. Getting 2 days worth of access to something (as with Podesta's Gmail) is not worth much to a nation state. They'd rather compromise an insider at Google or something and get access to Gmail in its entirety (the NSA likely has that access, incidentally). Hacks are most often caught inserting or exfiltrating the data, which is why they try to minimize the time they have to spend doing that.
Frankly only a complete moron would think that Russia has to stoop to 419-style phishing to hack a target (see elsewhere in this story for abundant evidence of this). Nation states target things like ISPs and large providers so they don't have to do silly one-off hacks most of the time. Inasmuch as you can convince us the DNC is completely incompetent for falling for this (perhaps the only thing I can agree on), I'm glad they're not running the country.
With the facts so badly against you, I can only wonder why you refuse to reconsider your biases here.
I don't think curly quotes are dead, either. I think they just keep getting morphed into Ã(TM) trash, as can be seen in many past Slashdot stories.
My approach is similar to this video, just replacing "pay me" with "prove it" in response to the allegations. I can't believe how many times I've heard excuses for why it's okay for a lame duck to screw diplomacy on the way out over evidence they won't give us (because it doesn't exist).
If they're not going to give us the evidence, I'm not going to believe them. It's really that simple. It's how credibility works. There are plenty of things I can verify that contradict them. If they told us they had classified data that proved global warming false, surely you'd be sensible enough not to believe that, right?
Anything other approach leads us straight back to wars for oil based on lies, instead of having the US join hands with Russia and Turkey to crush Isis.
On that front, it's just amazing how the people who the other week were yelling about the dangers of a diplomatic faux pas by answering a telephone call from Taiwan are suddenly cool with expelling all those Russian diplomats and trying to screw Israel over, while meanwhile Russia is making peace with Turkey (which suffered a coup attempt linked to an Islamic cleric in US exile) and Islamic radicals are murdering Russian diplomats....
Hackers are usually night owls, in my experience, as well.
Go on, tell us about your expert knowledge of nation state level hacking, I'm waiting.
These cheap, noisy attacks lead to maybe a few days worth of compromise if the allegations are to be believed (which is questionable). They're far more interested in durable access, as is evidenced by the collection of real spy hardware they worked to install with advanced methods of nearly undetectable exfiltration used by actual nation states which I linked to above.
They not only could, but have shown us past hacking devices actually attributed to Russia in the past. Here's a famous example: http://hackaday.com/2015/12/08...
Going to rely on allegations of secret knowledge that you can't show anybody? It's funny how your views on verifiable evidence flip around when politics come into play and suddenly we're supposed to trust all the same institutions that have proven willing and able to lie for political reasons in the recent past, a far less unified front than CNN would have you believe.
What happened? You were much more sensible about that sort of thing when arguing against idiotic global warming deniers.
> Really? When you receive a phishing email saying "click here to reset your Gmail password", your first thought is "OMG the Russians are in my network!"? Really? What the hell does "tips them off to the fact that you're in their network" even mean in this case - he gave them his GMAIL password.
You're confusing leaks, which is just sad because I wrote a guide to help people keep the three different leaks clear. This report is related to the DNC leaks which alleged the presence of RATs, etc. being found after an investigation caused by the emails being leaked to Wikileaks. Podesta was phished in a completely separate incident.
Those are two completely separate items, and there were reports of phishing leading to a malware download in some of the reports on the DNC leak, which is the incident I was talking about. I can see why you conflated that with the more famous phishing in the Podesta dump. It's really easy to conflate all this information (by design).
Ironically, even if we go to just the Podesta dump, the actual phishing email specifically claimed that Podesta should worry about Ukrainian hackers from 134.249.139.239. Quoting from the thread in relevant part:
(emphasis added)
You're also confused here:
> Due to an unfortunate typo by Charles Delavan
It's more than just a "typo" and we covered that on Slashdot when it came up (including yours truly). He also told him to do a password reset--something completely unnecessary for a fake attack. This also ignores the words of Sara Latham in that thread saying: "The gmail one is REAL" This was discussed extensively in the Slashdot story's comments.
Hackers don't normally want a target to realize they're hacked at all. And they were surely tipped off by these sloppy, noisy attacks. Podesta also had other passwords in his email that got used, including someone from 4chan messing with his Twitter account. They're probably sloppy enough to reuse passwords if they fall for this, too. Usually once they own your email they do password resets and leverage the access against other systems.
> Oh I see, you're an uber fan rooting against the other team.
I'm independent. Go check my Slashdot history for me supporting Obama back in 2008 if you like. I'm more than happy to give Colin Powell (and other Republicans, including that member of Trump's staff) their share of blame for bad OPSEC, too, as can be seen from my Slashdot history. I discussed that back here along with the entire email where Hillary & Colin discuss how to break every rule of operational security and worm their ways around the Presidential Records Act in ways that would make Nixon jealous.
Inasmuch as I am partisan, it's because I hate lying.
I hated it when Bush lied. I hate when Hillary & co. lie. Watching Obama trying to sabotage Israel and keep us from working with Russia to crush Isis murderers in Syria is perhaps the most disappointed I've been with him in his entire tenure. When Islamic militants are murdering Russian diplomats, not to mention this other murder by Isis, you have to quest
Your example is one used by police against low level idiot criminals, not against nation states.
The real examples from the long history of actual spying, both by Russians and Americans is significantly more sophisticated, as is clearly evident to anyone with even a passing familiarity regarding the known methods. They have no reason to resort to a pathetic attack like this and it's exactly the kind of noisy thing that gets caught. They don't want temporary access before getting shut out, they want durable access.
Just compare this with a catalog of real spy tools to see what a joke these "hacks" are in contrast. The OWASP copypasta and codwords reads like a low grade PCI auditor's report and even the more pathetic clients usually do better than this.
If anything, doubling down on t his just shows us that the DNC being in power is a threat to US security due to their dangerous incompetence. All of their secrets would be open to every 2-bit script kiddie, let alone actual nation states.
The point is that you wouldn't normally even try something like that first because it's big and obvious and noisy. It tips them off to the fact that you're in their network. The real spies are using sophisticated tools that give them long-lived access that are custom tailored to specific targets, not email blasts reminiscent of a 419 scammer.
But of course you believe that these unsophisticated, low level attacks are a sign of a nation state because a big scary enemy gives you someone to rally against, lest people instead look at the corrupt DNC establishment that sabotaged themselves by sending all the state-level campaign money to Hillary, spending twice as much as Trump, and causing all Democrats to lose one of the most important elections for them in decades.
The party would scatter if they didn't have a Russian boogeyman to rail against, after being shown to have such massive incompetence on a political level and not just a technological one.
Don't worry, I covered Saudi Arabia & Qatar's influence in a comment up here with links to some of the relevant emails.
If anyone wants bonus points, start reading the bylines of all these stories and compare them to the reporters who were working for the DNC, coordinating messaging with them, having their articles reviewed and approved, etc. and feel free to tag the relevant authors as #fakenews on Twitter with a link back to Wikileaks.
I suggest starting with Glenn "I have become a hack" Thrush.
> the idea that "the Rooskies" might have interfered with a U.S. election would not be so casually dismissed by the party of Reagan.
The cold war's been over for 20 years. The 1980s are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
> I am really appalled at how many people don't take the Russian interference seriously and blame it on some kind of Democrat/Obama conspiracy.
Even if we believe the claims being made without any real evidence, at worst they're alleged to have revealed the truth to us, the same way the Pentagon Papers did a generation back. Remember, for all the talk of "election" hacks, there have been no credible allegations that any voting machines were tampered with by anyone.
Inasmuch as we are to worry about foreign influence on our elections, why is there no concern over the funding of Clinton by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, places with a terrible human rights record where abuses like modern day slavery can still be found? Places that fund terrorists like ISIS? You know, the people who do this sort of thing? (NSFW - graphic content)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-...
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-...
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-...
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-...
If you're having trouble making out the context, look here for a more digestable form.
I dunno about you, but I'd rather temporarily work with Russia and take out ISIS than to attempt the reverse.
Your links about Russia basically say that they might be trying to fund people they agree with--so if you don't think the above is also harmful, that's literally hypocritical. I'd personally take a more nuanced view that it matters what they have the politicians in question do with that money, whether they follow the relevant laws, etc.
And it's not like elections can be straight up bought. Let's not forget that Hillary spent twice as much as Trump on this election and lost badly where it counted. It's doubly ironic that it's exactly the same kind of loss she suffered to Obama in the DNC primaries in 2008, where he was focused on delegates and she was focused elsewhere as anyone who watched 538's coverage back in 2008 should remember.
Funny thing, though, the chemical weapons were actually used by the "rebels." And of course we made things so much better by arming the "moderate" Islamic terrorists who just happen to also work with the Daesh (ISIS).
Now Russia & Turkey are over there trying to actually make peace in the region. The rest of the world is laughing at us regarding this, mind you, because most other countries learn more about the CIA's long history of interfering with elections and overthrowing governments, even democratic ones, that we didn't like.
Yes, that's Bernie in the link. These are good words to remember right about now. You can see why he has more real respect among independents like myself than Clinton ever did.
The burden of proof is on the one making allegations of Russian hacking. We know what nation state level hacking looks like thanks, ironically, to Snowden. We know the NSA can intercept your new router in the mail and install a durable backdoor on it that will survive everything you do to it. We know the NSA has TEMPEST vans that can snoop on your screen and keyboard.
The idea that a nation state is left to rely upon low level phishing scams seems laughable at best. Just look to past examples to see that they had better stuff than this.
Here are a few past examples of real hacking. Note how much more sophisticated these attacks were:
* Theremin's bug
* MI6 spies on Russia with fake rock
Please tell me again why Russia has fallen back to kiddie level phishing scams? Remember, the burden of proof is on the people saying "it's Russia" and I'm not going to let anyone shift that.
When some people tell me that Russel's teapot is in orbit and others say it's not, I'm going to wait for evidence. I can't just average them out and conclude that a teacup or possibly a saucer is up there flying around, if not a whole teapot.
Exactly. Oh, I think there's a list of TOR exit nodes in there, too.
Why do our mighty Russian hackers rely on pathetic phishing scams instead of putting in hardware backdoors by intercepting new hardware in the mail? Why can't they park a TEMPEST van a few miles away and read the passwords from the keyboard? They have Snowden, who revealed the NSA's TAO programs and things like how we're tapping Merkel's phone in Germany.
Are we seriously to believe that these Russian boogeymen are on the same level as your average 419 scammer and the poor, hapless DNC couldn't defend themselves?
I also note that a lot of places talk about "election hacking." That's not at all the same thing as someone in the DNC losing their email to a common scam, there's no evidence of vote tampering and even 538 pointed out how silly that was.
A lot of the technical comments got hit by a downvote brigade last night.
Read down to look at the people actually talking about tools & methods.
Thing is, we already know what nation state level hacking is. Has everyone just forgotten that we have the TAO program revelations from the NSA?
They're not emailing crappy ass phishing links to idiots or writing powershell scripts, they're using powerful signals intelligence tools like TEMPEST and custom, subverted hardware.
The fact that we fell for this just makes me wonder how much money the DNC has sent to 419 scammers.
Do note the same Guardian had to retract earlier statements.
Oh, they had to edit the ODNI statement too.
Best keep watching for more revisionist history.
This report was ripped to shreds yesterday.
It's mostly OWASP copypasta with recommended mitigations and a few interesting tidbits.
I'm also not clear on why this submission linked to a copy of the report. Best compare it with the original report in case there are any differences..
Indeed, but I haven't seen as much of an effort to invoke it lately as has been seen in CA. Of course, I can't say that they will, but who knows?
> In addition to hacking the DNC, the RNC was also hacked. Though those RNC emails were not made public.
Prove it.
> There is ample evidence of Russia doing similar things in other countries.
The CIA has done the same things. Again, prove it.
> We were attacked, yet some choose to trivialize it as a political issue, instead of realizing that our election process, the basis of democracy in our our Republic, was attacked.
How were we "attacked"? True information about how the DNC is manipulating the press and their own primaries was released. The day when telling us the truth becomes an "attack" is a sad day for democracy.
There's also the minor fact that the CIA's job has basically been to destabilize and overthrow other nations and set up puppet governments there. Just look at the history books about the CIA operations and ask yourself what they're doing today.
They've conflated all manner of "hacks" to make people believe that the voting machines were hacked, never mind Trump winning a state with only paper ballots. They've never produced any kind of evidence, whether to FOIA requests or to Congress. The same press hacks who were caught sending their articles to the DNC for review are now trumpeting anonymous claims from alleged insiders and talking about the hacking as if it were a given.
I don't know about you, but I'm more worried about the fake news that puts us on course for WWIII than I am about Macedonian clickbait sites.
I have half a mind to figure out how to write Firefox extensions so I can add the verified Wikileaks info to make it pop up whenever these articles come out. That is, so you can see who the people writing these articles really are. Because some of these people are self-described "hacks."
Because California wants to remove itself. See also: CalExit.