Then it's time to become active in your Geographic area to get that ISP corrected, or get them to fulfill your needs, or find a way to piggy back or tunnel what you need via the available resources. You are talking about a valid problem that hits everyplace but the highest concentration population areas in the world.
It is, indeed a problem for an unknown (large) number of internet users. There are technological answers,
and there are meatspace answers. Sometimes it's a shame that difficult tech answers are easier to go with than simple meat-space ones.
If you're driving at 90 miles an hour on the wrong side of the road, then (1) your speedometer will tell you that you're driving at 90 miles an hour...
Unless your car happens to NOT have a working speedometer. That doesn't break the analogy. That re-enforces it.
Since some MAPS subscribers block ALL IP traffic based upon listings, you may want to re-think the critical nature of being listed in it.
> We have fixed IPs
Good. Do you have non-anonymizing rDNS so that other people can tell that that's the truth?
Many spammers make false claims about their setups -- in fact -- half or more of the spam has unmatched MAIL FROM: envelope
addresses, as compared to the point they're being relayed. Most of that is "relay rape" (abuse of servers that do uncontrolled relaying -- often misnamed "open" relaying). I'm not saying that you should be branded as a spammer. What I am saying is that your legitimate
usages need to be obvious in the infrastructure.
The closest equivalent is asyncronous routing via multiple gateways. This can be very valid, especially where the underlying technology is assymetrical. But it's also a tool being used by spammers and other DDoS attackers to the point that some people are advocating the ending of all "source routing" by blocking according to known feed paths.
>Basically we've put off fixing our server thus far because of
>the headaches it would cause... ton of angry.. we got on orbs..
If the problem is with on-campus machines, then perhaps they need some kind of
funnel MSA server, unreachable from outside, which can channel
mail from their insecurity-forcing mail clientware. There are always answers. Occasionally they're not obvious.
Basically what you're saying, viewed from the victim side, "Our needs don't fit any of the wizard buttons, so we just will leave
the problem a problem. It's not OUR problem anyways. It is the problem with unreasonable black hole listing."
That doesn't wash. If you had a team mascot that was escaping and being a nuisance in town, whoever tends the mascot would have to find a new way of containing it between games. They couldn't just say "it's too hard".. "turnkey answers would keep the mascot from getting to events". They'd have to find a workable solution, or eventually repercussions from
the community would occur. Well, that's what's happening with your E-Mail, if you're deliberately NOT fixing the problem. You're getting those repercussions from the community.
>[Who are you and what are you doing with my socks]
Hopefully not a thing. Open socks and other proxies are one of the fastest growing
problems. When the spam comes through your socks, YOU ARE the spammer, whether you
created the posting or not. There is no way to tell that you did it by accident, rather than
deliberately to provide a service to the originator. You're the same
as any other spammer-for-hire, except that you MIGHT not be getting paid for it.
That surely resembles a Tier1 which currently has a growing
internal spammer problem on their *hosting.
Gee whiz. We're the big guy on the block. Tier1
so "we're invulnerable because we can fraudulently
retaliate when we are legitimately listed" or "have a difference of opinion with the listing". At least one
has fallen in the past. Let's hope that not ALL Tier1's
have the attitude that an INFORMATIONAL posting is a legitimate
reason for fraudulently inserting BGP null routes which
directly affect the operation of the Internet.
Five (to keep it simple) mains pumping from underground springs into
a reservoir used to store drinking water before final treatment. One
of them starts spewing raw sewage from a neighborhood cesspool.
Obviously, you cut it off (even though there might be some clean water
mixed in the flow). When do you turn it back on? How much guarantee
do you need that the pipe itself is cleaned out so that you are not as likely to get more sewage?
How long must that water be sampled elsewhere before you're willing to risk it again?
If it wasn't much of a well to begin with, maybe you just turn it off permanently.
No. It's somebody having your car towed out of their driveway
because they don't want it parked there.
They aren't keeping your mail from flowing down the highway
they're protecting their own locale from it.
Kind of like a store banning convicted shoplifters from the
premesis, even after they've served their time. Too bad. You MIGHT some day get in the
door for legitimate shopping again. Probably not. Send your mail to someone else. Find a different
ISP and behave there so you blend with the crowd.
Then you should run your servers so that the users get
the D.S.N returns that are actually generated. That's what it's
for, after all. FYI PacBell filtered a.forward from a
subscribed-to list for one of my users today. They refused
delivery to the.forward-ed account, from a subscription
here.
That's not to say that the place sending it wasn't a spamhaus
and shouldn't have been filtered. They're able to deliver
ONLY to my users that have asked for it. And now (it appears) not to them either. If the bounces continue, I'll zap the listings that allowed them thru to those users.
You set up SMTP-AUTH (e.g. SASL or STARTTLS with client
certificates required on your MSA - which should probably
not be the same server as your MTA). With STARTTLS
for incoming satellite mail, you also get encrypted
transmissions, presuming it's set up correctly, so
that your inter-office memos aren't E-postcards.
Three months ago, I was flying on my standard route complete with not only
my own normal load, but (unknown to me) a cluster of portapotties in my cargo bay. Unfortunately
the bay door was left unlatched and I scattered the contents of these uncleaned portapotties all over
three neighborhoods. Now, it wasn't a BAD spill. Only a few thousand (or was it 10s of thousands)
of people bothered. For some reason, the residents don't want me to fly on that
route any more, and I don't think it's fair. It was a simple mistake, and it only
affected a few people - but they told others, and now there are other places that don't want
even my normal cargo flights, let alone ones with unexpected dumpage. It's just not fair
and I'm gonna hold my breath until these unfair people notice that I turn blue! Why should I be humble
about my mistakes. It only cost those people a few hours of cleanup, each. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!! Why should I be penalized for someone ELSE putting those portapotties on my plane? I gotta be able to fly my route to keep my [ job | business ]. Why should I be penalized for something that happened MONTHS ago, and was small a the time. Trust me - I check the latch every time this time, and compare my cargo against what's supposed to be there. Puleeezzzz let me fly over your houses and businesses now - - puleezzzz! It's my constitutional rights! You gotta let me! You gotta be fair! It didn't really take me long to clean up the plane - why would it have taken you long enough to clean up. You shouldn't hold a grudge. You should trust me. Really!!!</SATIRE>
Slashdot Mirror
Then it's time to become active in your Geographic area to get that ISP corrected, or get them to fulfill your needs, or find a way to piggy back or tunnel what you need via the available resources. You are talking about a valid problem that hits everyplace but the highest concentration population areas in the world. It is, indeed a problem for an unknown (large) number of internet users. There are technological answers, and there are meatspace answers. Sometimes it's a shame that difficult tech answers are easier to go with than simple meat-space ones.
Unless your car happens to NOT have a working speedometer. That doesn't break the analogy. That re-enforces it.
> We have fixed IPs
Good. Do you have non-anonymizing rDNS so that other people can tell that that's the truth?
Many spammers make false claims about their setups -- in fact -- half or more of the spam has unmatched MAIL FROM: envelope addresses, as compared to the point they're being relayed. Most of that is "relay rape" (abuse of servers that do uncontrolled relaying -- often misnamed "open" relaying). I'm not saying that you should be branded as a spammer. What I am saying is that your legitimate usages need to be obvious in the infrastructure.
The closest equivalent is asyncronous routing via multiple gateways. This can be very valid, especially where the underlying technology is assymetrical. But it's also a tool being used by spammers and other DDoS attackers to the point that some people are advocating the ending of all "source routing" by blocking according to known feed paths.
>the headaches it would cause.
If the problem is with on-campus machines, then perhaps they need some kind of funnel MSA server, unreachable from outside, which can channel mail from their insecurity-forcing mail clientware. There are always answers. Occasionally they're not obvious.
Basically what you're saying, viewed from the victim side, "Our needs don't fit any of the wizard buttons, so we just will leave the problem a problem. It's not OUR problem anyways. It is the problem with unreasonable black hole listing."
That doesn't wash. If you had a team mascot that was escaping and being a nuisance in town, whoever tends the mascot would have to find a new way of containing it between games. They couldn't just say "it's too hard" .. "turnkey answers would keep the mascot from getting to events". They'd have to find a workable solution, or eventually repercussions from
the community would occur. Well, that's what's happening with your E-Mail, if you're deliberately NOT fixing the problem. You're getting those repercussions from the community.
Hopefully not a thing. Open socks and other proxies are one of the fastest growing problems. When the spam comes through your socks, YOU ARE the spammer, whether you created the posting or not. There is no way to tell that you did it by accident, rather than deliberately to provide a service to the originator. You're the same as any other spammer-for-hire, except that you MIGHT not be getting paid for it.
Five (to keep it simple) mains pumping from underground springs into a reservoir used to store drinking water before final treatment. One of them starts spewing raw sewage from a neighborhood cesspool.
Obviously, you cut it off (even though there might be some clean water mixed in the flow). When do you turn it back on? How much guarantee do you need that the pipe itself is cleaned out so that you are not as likely to get more sewage? How long must that water be sampled elsewhere before you're willing to risk it again? If it wasn't much of a well to begin with, maybe you just turn it off permanently.
They aren't keeping your mail from flowing down the highway they're protecting their own locale from it.
Kind of like a store banning convicted shoplifters from the premesis, even after they've served their time. Too bad. You MIGHT some day get in the door for legitimate shopping again. Probably not. Send your mail to someone else. Find a different ISP and behave there so you blend with the crowd.
That's not to say that the place sending it wasn't a spamhaus and shouldn't have been filtered. They're able to deliver ONLY to my users that have asked for it. And now (it appears) not to them either. If the bounces continue, I'll zap the listings that allowed them thru to those users.
You set up SMTP-AUTH (e.g. SASL or STARTTLS with client certificates required on your MSA - which should probably not be the same server as your MTA). With STARTTLS for incoming satellite mail, you also get encrypted transmissions, presuming it's set up correctly, so that your inter-office memos aren't E-postcards.
Three months ago, I was flying on my standard route complete with not only my own normal load, but (unknown to me) a cluster of portapotties in my cargo bay. Unfortunately the bay door was left unlatched and I scattered the contents of these uncleaned portapotties all over three neighborhoods. Now, it wasn't a BAD spill. Only a few thousand (or was it 10s of thousands) of people bothered. For some reason, the residents don't want me to fly on that route any more, and I don't think it's fair. It was a simple mistake, and it only affected a few people - but they told others, and now there are other places that don't want even my normal cargo flights, let alone ones with unexpected dumpage. It's just not fair and I'm gonna hold my breath until these unfair people notice that I turn blue! Why should I be humble about my mistakes. It only cost those people a few hours of cleanup, each. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!! Why should I be penalized for someone ELSE putting those portapotties on my plane? I gotta be able to fly my route to keep my [ job | business ]. Why should I be penalized for something that happened MONTHS ago, and was small a the time. Trust me - I check the latch every time this time, and compare my cargo against what's supposed to be there. Puleeezzzz let me fly over your houses and businesses now - - puleezzzz! It's my constitutional rights! You gotta let me! You gotta be fair! It didn't really take me long to clean up the plane - why would it have taken you long enough to clean up. You shouldn't hold a grudge. You should trust me. Really!!!</SATIRE>