Oh, I understand how you feel. My lecturer (who I respect greatly) had this problem. He taught students from the algorithmics angle, insisting that students think thru the problem and solving in in pseudo-code. Another lecturer taught Pascal (that was the language used in Programming 101). Guess who got the most popular award?
Most students don't appreciate algo. These students think that it is irrelevant and that any problem can be solved, by just putting more time into coding. OTOH, I went thru the whole shebang, with Algo 101, CS201 (Programming and Data Structure), Analysis (which was algorithm and notational analysis) and Computation model (I can still remember the look on my buddy's face when my lecturer mentioned that the proof that all computers are Turing equivalent could appear in the exams:).
It made me appreciate algo and computation a lot more. When my lecturer had mentioned that 2-D matrix multiplication has its order reduced to O^2.xx, I was impressed...=) However, the industry tries to brainwash everyone into thinking that the only important thing is their product (all of them incl Sun, Oracle, MS, etc), othering else matters.
As for NP-completeness, it is heretical to their belief that computers cannot do everything. They ignore it totally, and throw more computational power when it program runs too slowly...
My first lecture in college was my a disciple of his religion. I find doing programming and learning other languages so much faster.
Many, when given a problem would not even spend a moment thinking how to do it. Instead, they start coding with their favorite language (Java/VB/etc) and later on complained that the program runs too slowly.
I do agree about the ignorance of algorithmics by graduates nowadays. They couldn't be bothered and thinks that a fast CPU (or a cluster or some smart ass even mention Beowulf!) can solve everything. Their response when I mentioned about their (lacking of) algorithm design, was "who cares?!?"
Hear hear! The level of naivete here is choking. How can anyone be sure that Sun will be better than MS? Don't forget, for any profit company, the main goal is to earn as much $, legally as possible. I shudder at the thought that with Jini, every electronic equipment will pay homage to Sun....
Hmmm, As for Episode 3, no go. Anakin was physically ok when he battled Obi Wan. It was during the battle (yes THAT battle) that Anakin fell into the pit (of lava or something). Obi Wan mentioned this in Epi 6
Sun themselves released Java when it was not much better than an applet writing language. The version 1.0.x of JDK was just a toy language! Look, most of the (stable) extensions to Java that allows it to do more than applets came out about a year ago. Some would say that it is not even ready for prime time yet (just look at JDBC), not even in the league of C/C++. "Write once run everywhere" stuff is just pure idealism. Solutions that have come up are not going to speed Java up much more. The solution put up by Sun is not much different from MS: wait for more, cheaper CPU cycles and RAM (ie upgrade your CPU and RAM).
How much different is that from Ms expecting users to upgrade their machine for each upgrade of their OS? A pox on both houses!
Typecasting is going to occur as much as people stereotype others, not much different at all.
Perl is already been ported over to Win32. Most of the stuff works fine, except process control and some things like alarm. The version that Activestate releases has PerlScripting that does COM, etc. Check it out...
No doubt, MS' attempt to split Java does affect the non-MS world. For better and for worse. Don't forget that Sun's attitude didn't help in making other company feel warm and fuzzy either. Eg, HP and Chai. You can't accuse HP of being a MS slave.
That said, Sun (and Java) is sometimes it own worst enemy. On the server side issue, just compare its speed to C++/C, connection to DB, etc. Even if you exclude any MS products at the backend, you still have problems. Just check out the comments on Oracle's JDBC drivers in the Java database forums. Things like that doesn't give you points when you compare them the other back-end server programming methods.
If you say that MS is proprietarizing Perl, hows about the otherway round? Perl is excluding Win32 platform? Neither statments are really true, but in the world of FUD, who cares?
I do agree with most points (except those brought up by the other person regarding X-platformness). Most people forgot or chose to forget the hype and the attitude of Sun when it comes to Java.
Furthermore, Sun was targetting at MS. Remember all the rhetorics and gravel-banging? I would have thought I had stepped into a cult-leader meeting! MS would of course retailate when it is in the cross hairs.
With the overated hype and under-delivery by Sun, Java is hurt more than by MS. Everyone with some degree of intelligence would know how MS operates...
As for Perl, the main and critical difference is that it just does it job, well. No attempts to take over the world, etc. If it does not (do the job, not take over the world;), I'll take another language that would.
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Oh, I understand how you feel. My lecturer (who I respect greatly) had this problem. He taught students from the algorithmics angle, insisting that students think thru the problem and solving in in pseudo-code. Another lecturer taught Pascal (that was the language used in Programming 101). Guess who got the most popular award?
:).
Most students don't appreciate algo. These students think that it is irrelevant and that any problem can be solved, by just putting more time into coding. OTOH, I went thru the whole shebang, with Algo 101, CS201 (Programming and Data Structure), Analysis (which was algorithm and notational analysis) and Computation model (I can still remember the look on my buddy's face when my lecturer mentioned that the proof that all computers are Turing equivalent could appear in the exams
It made me appreciate algo and computation a lot more. When my lecturer had mentioned that 2-D matrix multiplication has its order reduced to O^2.xx, I was impressed...=) However, the industry tries to brainwash everyone into thinking that the only important thing is their product (all of them incl Sun, Oracle, MS, etc), othering else matters.
As for NP-completeness, it is heretical to their belief that computers cannot do everything. They ignore it totally, and throw more computational power when it program runs too slowly...
Watcher
Yep,
Knuth is a grand master in algo.
My first lecture in college was my a disciple of his religion. I find doing programming and learning other languages so much faster.
Many, when given a problem would not even spend a moment thinking how to do it. Instead, they start coding with their favorite language (Java/VB/etc) and later on complained that the program runs too slowly.
I do agree about the ignorance of algorithmics by graduates nowadays. They couldn't be bothered and thinks that a fast CPU (or a cluster or some smart ass even mention Beowulf!) can solve everything. Their response when I mentioned about their (lacking of) algorithm design, was "who cares?!?"
Watcher
Precisely!
What do you guys what? Short or long term gain? If anyone wants OpenSource just ONLY to challenge MS, then it is OpenSource's misfortune.
I've never known cutting off the nose to spite the face to be a long term strategy.
Watcher
Hear hear!
The level of naivete here is choking. How can anyone be sure that Sun will be better than MS? Don't forget, for any profit company, the main goal is to earn as much $, legally as possible. I shudder at the thought that with Jini, every electronic equipment will pay homage to Sun....
How true! s/Transmeta/Microsoft/ and see what you get!
ROFL! =) or instead, "-v"
Hmmm,
As for Episode 3, no go. Anakin was physically ok when he battled Obi Wan. It was during the battle (yes THAT battle) that Anakin fell into the pit (of lava or something). Obi Wan mentioned this in Epi 6
Definately true. However, if anyone does compare NT, it would then be a black box model comparision. Unless someone in MS is willing to help...
Exactly!
Sun themselves released Java when it was not much better than an applet writing language. The version 1.0.x of JDK was just a toy language! Look, most of the (stable) extensions to Java that allows it to do more than applets came out about a year ago. Some would say that it is not even ready for prime time yet (just look at JDBC), not even in the league of C/C++. "Write once run everywhere" stuff is just pure idealism. Solutions that have come up are not going to speed Java up much more. The solution put up by Sun is not much different from MS: wait for more, cheaper CPU cycles and RAM (ie upgrade your CPU and RAM).
How much different is that from Ms expecting users to upgrade their machine for each upgrade of their OS? A pox on both houses!
Typecasting is going to occur as much as people stereotype others, not much different at all.
Perl is already been ported over to Win32. Most of the stuff works fine, except process control and some things like alarm. The version that Activestate releases has PerlScripting that does COM, etc. Check it out...
No doubt, MS' attempt to split Java does affect the non-MS world. For better and for worse. Don't forget that Sun's attitude didn't help in making other company feel warm and fuzzy either. Eg, HP and Chai. You can't accuse HP of being a MS slave.
That said, Sun (and Java) is sometimes it own worst enemy. On the server side issue, just compare its speed to C++/C, connection to DB, etc. Even if you exclude any MS products at the backend, you still have problems. Just check out the comments on Oracle's JDBC drivers in the Java database forums. Things like that doesn't give you points when you compare them the other back-end server programming methods.
If you say that MS is proprietarizing Perl, hows about the otherway round? Perl is excluding Win32 platform? Neither statments are really true, but in the world of FUD, who cares?
I do agree with most points (except those brought up by the other person regarding X-platformness). Most people forgot or chose to forget the hype and the attitude of Sun when it comes to Java.
;), I'll take another language that would.
Furthermore, Sun was targetting at MS. Remember all the rhetorics and gravel-banging? I would have thought I had stepped into a cult-leader meeting! MS would of course retailate when it is in the cross hairs.
With the overated hype and under-delivery by Sun, Java is hurt more than by MS. Everyone with some degree of intelligence would know how MS operates...
As for Perl, the main and critical difference is that it just does it job, well. No attempts to take over the world, etc. If it does not (do the job, not take over the world