I don't understand what part of the legal standpoint "Dont steal code" you don't get. Blizzard claims Bnetd stole code. If they managed to totally reproduce Battle.net and didnt steal any code from Blizzard at all, then as much as I don't like the idea it's a legal program. If what Blizzard claims is true and they actually had to swipe code to make Bnetd work, then its theft.
End of story. Get a job, thief.
The point is the licensing, not the parent agency. Why isn't it legal to manufacture keys that will start any car?
"VGS - the Playstation emulator - held up in a court of law as FAIR COMPETITION to Sony's console"
Yes, only because it implements copy protection and does not allow pirated software to be played unless you hack it. Thank you for defeating your own argument.
"Ok, maybe I'm wrong..."
Yes.
"is a GOOD thing for Blizzard, bringing them more business. "Hey, I want to play the Blizzard game ______, but their servers SUCK!" "That's ok, use Bnetd" "
Let's try, 'Hey, I want to play the Blizzard game ______, but it costs $49.99!' 'That's ok, use Bnetd'.
"Blizzard.net doesn't use advertising"
That would be because Blizzard.net is a domain name company. Blizzard.com is a giant advertisement for Blizzard games, and battle.net most certainly uses advertising. Read the adjacent post. You could also browse the battle.net website for 4 seconds and find the link to http://www.battle.net/advertising/
There's your answer. Sky still green?
Bnetd facilitates financial harm to Blizzard, and that damn well facilitates harm to the general gaming public. Blizzard makes less $$$ = Blizzard makes fewer and lower quality games. Sucking money out of Blizzard isn't going to IMPROVE battle.net any, either.
"Bnetd can only be seen theoretically to harm one company"
Come again? It's an open source project. Whats to stop people modifying and extending it and eventually undercutting all forms of CD authentication? I think Verant, Valve, ID Software, Cornerd Rat Studios, Funcom, Sierra and many others might be interested in seeing this thing go down too.
"..laws are not made to protect single corporations; rather, it is their own responsibility to insure their financial success."
Hence the lawsuit. At least admit you can see their posistion, if not agree with it.
"...Its purpose was to allow small groups of people to simulate the entire experience of Battle.net without logging into Blizzard's servers..."
Yeah, dynamite was meant for demolition purposes, not for killing soldiers. Guess what you can't buy at the 7-11?
Don't be dumb, you're talking apples and oranges. True competition involves offering competing goods or services, not providing means by which to cirvumvent the law.
Look at it this way. If Blizzard is some version of the DMV, that gives you the car for free provided you pay $49.99 for a license plate and keys, then why can't I start my OWN DMV - lets call it DMVD - that just gives you a license plate and keys for free? It's not like I would ever use DMVD to illegally steal a car. Why is it illegal to manufacture keys for cars you don't own without permission?
Think of it as a matter of degree. Take a sledgehammer, for instance. Theoretically, I could kill people with a sledgehammer, it's been done, it will be done again, but it is obvious to anyone that a sledgehammer has many uses and that killing people is not what it was designed for.
Similarly, CD burners and the internet CAN easily be used to steal, just as a sledgehammer can be used to kill, however they have many other legal, useful functions.
The argument of degree is where guns come in. It is a given that the primary purpose of a gun involves bodily harm, either the infliction of it, or the prevention of it through self-defense. Now, some guns are legal, some are not. A citizen can own a handgun, because although it grants him the ability to kill, it also grants him the ability to defend his home and family.
A citizen may not, however, own a rocket launcher. Although it technically performs the same function as another object that is legal, the scale on which it operates makes it obvious that its potential for harm (in the form of collateral damage) far outweighs the need of an average person to possess a high explosive device.
In addition, there is nothing *legal* you can do with a rocket launcher that you cannot do otherwise with a much less dangerous weapon, or more controlled alternative. However, were rocket launchers legal to purchase and easy to obtain, the danger to the general public would increase immesurably.
In short, by outlawing privately owned rocket launchers but allowing small handguns, we have drastically reduced the ability of criminals to do illegal things, but not castrated the honest public.
Bnetd is a reverse rocket launcher - instead of operating on far too large a scale to be reasonable and safe, bnetd operates on such a specific, targeted scale as to make it obvious that illegal activites are what would quickly become the primary purpose of the object, ala private bazookas and landmines.
It is a matter of applying common sense to the issue.
***********
Note that my argument is invalid if you are a gun-crazed nut who thinks that every man, woman and child should be able to go to a street corner and purchase landmines and assault rifles - in which case, your line of thinking is too alien for me to attempt to reason with.
Because the Internet and CD Burners perform functions that are not elsewhere duplicated "legally", whereas the functionality of Bnetd emulates a service already supplied, with the single exception that it facilitates theft. There is no other reasonable useage for Bnetd that Blizzard does not already offer.
Try looking at it from both sides of the argument.
Point is still that Bnetd allows you to play pirated games. I'm sure Blizzard would happily sue everyone that burns illegal copies of Starcraft and Warcraft III if they could, but those people aren't running ISP's and advertising that they run servers that circumvent CD key protection. When it comes to stopping software piracy, you take what you can.
It's actually far more likely that they abandoned the DMCA course of action for fear that it would get dragged out for years in court, ala Napster, and anyone with a brain can see Blizzard wants this buried before Warcraft III.
As for the legality of the lawsuit, Blizzard claims that BNETD incorporates code that has been ripped right from Blizzard's own software - in which case, it is illegal. Now, as to the question of "Did they actually STEAL the code, and how" or "Did they just manage to reproduce it, bugs and all" is a matter for the courts, not for message board junkies.
If you wanted to make a car analogy out of this, you should have commented on the legality of creating a tool that produces master Ford(tm)keys, which enable you to start any Ford(tm) car and drive it right off the lot.
Of course Ford would know that you, me and everyone else would ONLY ever use these keys in case we lost our REAL keys to the cars we legally purchased, because NO ONE would ever concieve of using this tool to steal cars without paying for them. People are so honest, after all.
Because working with the "community" would require public release of their CD key authorization systems.
Blizzard already does more than any other game company to encourage a community atmosphere, what with providing free online play, consistant game updates in response to player feedback, monthly ladder tournaments, free maps every week, and more - and without a monthly fee.
The only crap they're pulling is ensuring that people need to BUY the game to PLAY it. The people who made the game in the first place do need to eat, after all. This is their job, they didn't hack the game out in their spare time at night.
Go rip the people at Verant, Funcom and Cornered Rat Software a new one if you feel the need to abuse developers that take their players for granted. For those guys, I'll bring the torch myself.
There's a lot of people stomping their feet and going "Oooh Blizzard now you've done it, grrrr, you've lost a customer!!!"
Exactly how many sales do you think Blizzard stands to lose if it becomes extremely easy to pirate their software? Blizzard's CD key system is quite effective at encouraging people to purchase their games. The loss of a few hundred customers pissed that the company would ever sue intellectual property thieves is nothing compared to what they'll lose if BNETD is around when Warcraft III and WoW come out.
Sure they'd like to keep everyone happy. It's just not going to happen. Lesser of the two evils.
Yes, they did. They asked for Blizzard's CD key authorization algorithims. If you were a corporation intent on not allowing software piracy, would you hand out your private CD key encryption schemes to be incorporated into an open source project?
"Dear Blizzard,
Unless you drop your lawsuit against BNETD and allow for the continued existance of a program that allows countless software pirates to play your games at will, I will not buy any more of your games."
C'mon bud, you've gotta be joking. The loss of your measily contribution to their revenue is nothing compared to what they'll lose if BNETD isn't shut down.
And you're telling me that if BNETD is allowed to exist, that you'd go out and buy authentic Blizzard games?
Common sense, where art thou?
Slashdot Mirror
I don't understand what part of the legal standpoint "Dont steal code" you don't get. Blizzard claims Bnetd stole code. If they managed to totally reproduce Battle.net and didnt steal any code from Blizzard at all, then as much as I don't like the idea it's a legal program. If what Blizzard claims is true and they actually had to swipe code to make Bnetd work, then its theft. End of story. Get a job, thief.
Look on the bright side, you'll have a great excuse for not buying Blizzard games regardless of the outcome.
Damn, someone beat me to it.
The point is the licensing, not the parent agency. Why isn't it legal to manufacture keys that will start any car? "VGS - the Playstation emulator - held up in a court of law as FAIR COMPETITION to Sony's console" Yes, only because it implements copy protection and does not allow pirated software to be played unless you hack it. Thank you for defeating your own argument.
"Ok, maybe I'm wrong..." Yes. "is a GOOD thing for Blizzard, bringing them more business. "Hey, I want to play the Blizzard game ______, but their servers SUCK!" "That's ok, use Bnetd" " Let's try, 'Hey, I want to play the Blizzard game ______, but it costs $49.99!' 'That's ok, use Bnetd'. "Blizzard.net doesn't use advertising" That would be because Blizzard.net is a domain name company. Blizzard.com is a giant advertisement for Blizzard games, and battle.net most certainly uses advertising. Read the adjacent post. You could also browse the battle.net website for 4 seconds and find the link to http://www.battle.net/advertising/ There's your answer. Sky still green?
Gasp! What's this? A company that needs revenue to operate? Who came up with THIS dumb idea? Blizzard must be EVIL for trying to make money!
Bnetd facilitates financial harm to Blizzard, and that damn well facilitates harm to the general gaming public. Blizzard makes less $$$ = Blizzard makes fewer and lower quality games. Sucking money out of Blizzard isn't going to IMPROVE battle.net any, either. "Bnetd can only be seen theoretically to harm one company" Come again? It's an open source project. Whats to stop people modifying and extending it and eventually undercutting all forms of CD authentication? I think Verant, Valve, ID Software, Cornerd Rat Studios, Funcom, Sierra and many others might be interested in seeing this thing go down too. "..laws are not made to protect single corporations; rather, it is their own responsibility to insure their financial success." Hence the lawsuit. At least admit you can see their posistion, if not agree with it. "...Its purpose was to allow small groups of people to simulate the entire experience of Battle.net without logging into Blizzard's servers..." Yeah, dynamite was meant for demolition purposes, not for killing soldiers. Guess what you can't buy at the 7-11?
Don't be dumb, you're talking apples and oranges. True competition involves offering competing goods or services, not providing means by which to cirvumvent the law. Look at it this way. If Blizzard is some version of the DMV, that gives you the car for free provided you pay $49.99 for a license plate and keys, then why can't I start my OWN DMV - lets call it DMVD - that just gives you a license plate and keys for free? It's not like I would ever use DMVD to illegally steal a car. Why is it illegal to manufacture keys for cars you don't own without permission?
Think of it as a matter of degree. Take a sledgehammer, for instance. Theoretically, I could kill people with a sledgehammer, it's been done, it will be done again, but it is obvious to anyone that a sledgehammer has many uses and that killing people is not what it was designed for. Similarly, CD burners and the internet CAN easily be used to steal, just as a sledgehammer can be used to kill, however they have many other legal, useful functions. The argument of degree is where guns come in. It is a given that the primary purpose of a gun involves bodily harm, either the infliction of it, or the prevention of it through self-defense. Now, some guns are legal, some are not. A citizen can own a handgun, because although it grants him the ability to kill, it also grants him the ability to defend his home and family. A citizen may not, however, own a rocket launcher. Although it technically performs the same function as another object that is legal, the scale on which it operates makes it obvious that its potential for harm (in the form of collateral damage) far outweighs the need of an average person to possess a high explosive device. In addition, there is nothing *legal* you can do with a rocket launcher that you cannot do otherwise with a much less dangerous weapon, or more controlled alternative. However, were rocket launchers legal to purchase and easy to obtain, the danger to the general public would increase immesurably. In short, by outlawing privately owned rocket launchers but allowing small handguns, we have drastically reduced the ability of criminals to do illegal things, but not castrated the honest public. Bnetd is a reverse rocket launcher - instead of operating on far too large a scale to be reasonable and safe, bnetd operates on such a specific, targeted scale as to make it obvious that illegal activites are what would quickly become the primary purpose of the object, ala private bazookas and landmines. It is a matter of applying common sense to the issue. *********** Note that my argument is invalid if you are a gun-crazed nut who thinks that every man, woman and child should be able to go to a street corner and purchase landmines and assault rifles - in which case, your line of thinking is too alien for me to attempt to reason with.
Because the Internet and CD Burners perform functions that are not elsewhere duplicated "legally", whereas the functionality of Bnetd emulates a service already supplied, with the single exception that it facilitates theft. There is no other reasonable useage for Bnetd that Blizzard does not already offer. Try looking at it from both sides of the argument.
Point is still that Bnetd allows you to play pirated games. I'm sure Blizzard would happily sue everyone that burns illegal copies of Starcraft and Warcraft III if they could, but those people aren't running ISP's and advertising that they run servers that circumvent CD key protection. When it comes to stopping software piracy, you take what you can.
It's actually far more likely that they abandoned the DMCA course of action for fear that it would get dragged out for years in court, ala Napster, and anyone with a brain can see Blizzard wants this buried before Warcraft III. As for the legality of the lawsuit, Blizzard claims that BNETD incorporates code that has been ripped right from Blizzard's own software - in which case, it is illegal. Now, as to the question of "Did they actually STEAL the code, and how" or "Did they just manage to reproduce it, bugs and all" is a matter for the courts, not for message board junkies.
If you wanted to make a car analogy out of this, you should have commented on the legality of creating a tool that produces master Ford(tm)keys, which enable you to start any Ford(tm) car and drive it right off the lot. Of course Ford would know that you, me and everyone else would ONLY ever use these keys in case we lost our REAL keys to the cars we legally purchased, because NO ONE would ever concieve of using this tool to steal cars without paying for them. People are so honest, after all.
Because working with the "community" would require public release of their CD key authorization systems. Blizzard already does more than any other game company to encourage a community atmosphere, what with providing free online play, consistant game updates in response to player feedback, monthly ladder tournaments, free maps every week, and more - and without a monthly fee. The only crap they're pulling is ensuring that people need to BUY the game to PLAY it. The people who made the game in the first place do need to eat, after all. This is their job, they didn't hack the game out in their spare time at night. Go rip the people at Verant, Funcom and Cornered Rat Software a new one if you feel the need to abuse developers that take their players for granted. For those guys, I'll bring the torch myself.
There's a lot of people stomping their feet and going "Oooh Blizzard now you've done it, grrrr, you've lost a customer!!!" Exactly how many sales do you think Blizzard stands to lose if it becomes extremely easy to pirate their software? Blizzard's CD key system is quite effective at encouraging people to purchase their games. The loss of a few hundred customers pissed that the company would ever sue intellectual property thieves is nothing compared to what they'll lose if BNETD is around when Warcraft III and WoW come out. Sure they'd like to keep everyone happy. It's just not going to happen. Lesser of the two evils.
Yes, they did. They asked for Blizzard's CD key authorization algorithims. If you were a corporation intent on not allowing software piracy, would you hand out your private CD key encryption schemes to be incorporated into an open source project?
"Dear Blizzard, Unless you drop your lawsuit against BNETD and allow for the continued existance of a program that allows countless software pirates to play your games at will, I will not buy any more of your games." C'mon bud, you've gotta be joking. The loss of your measily contribution to their revenue is nothing compared to what they'll lose if BNETD isn't shut down. And you're telling me that if BNETD is allowed to exist, that you'd go out and buy authentic Blizzard games? Common sense, where art thou?