The hybrids are not death traps. The problem is the propensity of Americans to drive SUVs that they don't need to be driving. A Civic Hybrid against another car of it's own size class will do really well and you won't end up dead in it. The problem is that selfish SUV owners who never take the car off-road and never carry more than two people unfairly change the odds for those of us who want to be conscious of our fossil fuel use -- whether we're in Hybrids or Civics or Corollas or Escorts or whatever. If you've never driven your SUV on a gravel road, then you're selfish and you could do what you need to do with a smaller vehicle than the SUV you're driving.
You must have been comparing the Civic LX to the Hybrid Civic -- but the LX doesn't have all the neat power features and toys that are standard on the Civic Hybrid. You'd have to feature-compare the EX rather than the LX, and even then there are standard features on the Hybrid that are either not available at any price on the EX, or adding them to the EX will drive the price up past that of the Hybrid...
Owning a hybrid is not about making out okay in $$ at the end of the game. If $$ are your final concern, you ought not be looking at a hybrid. There's far more to be said about hybrid ownership than $$$.
The EPA for city on the Civic Hybrid CVT is 48. The EPA for city on the Civic EX is 34ish (or lower). That's at least *14* mpg, not 4 mpg.
The highway EPA MPG for Civic Hybrid CVT is 47 (51 in the 5-speed). Highway EPA for Civic EX is 38. That's either 9 or 13 mpg, depending on which car you're comparing. Still better than 4 mpg.
In a Toyota Prius you most certainly *will* be the first person out of the stop light. You may not stay at the head of the pack, but you *will* leave the light at the head of the class. Trust me.
If you'd ever test driven one (and floored the pedal) you would know this!:-)
Kids, DO try this at home. By hitting the go pedal hard, you're asking the car to use the electric motors for propulsion -- exactly what the car is designed to do!
The Civic Hybrid looks EXACTLY like it's "normal-looking" counterpart, the gasoline-powered Honda Civic.
As for why they have such "stupid" looking designs...I assume you mean the new Prius and Insight... the teardrop shape gives excellent drag coefficient and therefore boosts MPGs/fuel economy. They don't make them look like that without a reason.:-)
Regarding your comment about where electricity comes from...You don't need *that* kind of electricity in a hybrid-electric vehicle! All of the electricity in the car comes from regenerative braking (during which energy is stored in the battery) or from replenishment by the gasoline engine. No plugs, none at all, on hybrid-electic vehicles currently available in the U.S.
As for your comment on Performance, hybrid electric vehicles can pick 'em up and put 'em down. The electric torque at low speeds greatly increases the available hp under acceleration, and the CVT has none of those annoying "hitches" when it shifts -- it's smooth, and if you've ever dragged someone, you know what a time-waster the "lurch" is when you have to shift (or when your engine shifts).
As for hydrogen fuel cell cars... WHERE do you think the energy to refine the hydrogen is going to come from? That's right: Fossil Fuels. Fuel cells aren't the perfect solution!
Actually, many things about the Honda Civic Hybrid can be taken care of by your local mechanic. Many small mechanics are learning what they need to do to take care of these cars (they are not as "unusual" as the Prius under the hood). I know of an independent mechanic in a small town not far from here who purchased the service manuals, the 0w20 oil, and is now working on Honda Civic Hybrids -- and he's not a dealer.:-)
If you buy it, they will come. They will also learn to fix it.
However, the Prius does indeed need to have much of its servicing (other than oil changes) done at a dealer who does have a Certified Prius Tech on staff. Most dealerships do.
Regarding your post "c":
The batteries have to be replaced "eventually" -- just like the engine, tires, brakes, etc. Batteries are expected to last the life of the car, so, it's really a non-issue when purchasing the car new. Pocket your gas savings toward the purchase of that battery, if you're really worried about it... SULEV Hybrid Civics warrant the battery for 150,000 miles (ULEV Hybrid Civics and Toyota Prius warrant for 80,000 or 100,000 miles). How long do you drive YOUR cars? Will that be enough for you?:-)
A diesel TDI has greater particulate emissions than a gasoline hybrid-electric vehicle. European diesel is much cleaner than diesel cars/fuel available in the United States.
Actually, Hybrid cars are excellent for highway driving! Only one part of driving a hybrid is the regenerative braking -- the other part is the fact that the electric motors assist the gasoline engine while driving, making for some excellent MPGs on the highway, too!
Before you excuse them as non-workable for you, you ought to test drive one and see the great MPGs you get on your commute.
Hybrid-electric vehicles are excellent choices for many people. You have choice between Honda's Insight (a sporty two-seater that gets 50-70 mpg, depending on 5-spd or CVT), Honda's Civic Hybrid (a hybrid-electric version of the popular Civic sedan), and the Toyota Prius (used to be a compact sedan, but is redesigned for '04 to a mid-size hatchback).
I'd recommend that you check the user groups at Yahoo! for more reading than you can do in a day. Pros, cons, problems, kudos, recalls, praise, success stories of 500- and 600-mile tanks -- all for your reading pleasure.
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The hybrids are not death traps. The problem is the propensity of Americans to drive SUVs that they don't need to be driving. A Civic Hybrid against another car of it's own size class will do really well and you won't end up dead in it. The problem is that selfish SUV owners who never take the car off-road and never carry more than two people unfairly change the odds for those of us who want to be conscious of our fossil fuel use -- whether we're in Hybrids or Civics or Corollas or Escorts or whatever. If you've never driven your SUV on a gravel road, then you're selfish and you could do what you need to do with a smaller vehicle than the SUV you're driving.
You must have been comparing the Civic LX to the Hybrid Civic -- but the LX doesn't have all the neat power features and toys that are standard on the Civic Hybrid. You'd have to feature-compare the EX rather than the LX, and even then there are standard features on the Hybrid that are either not available at any price on the EX, or adding them to the EX will drive the price up past that of the Hybrid...
Owning a hybrid is not about making out okay in $$ at the end of the game. If $$ are your final concern, you ought not be looking at a hybrid. There's far more to be said about hybrid ownership than $$$.
The EPA for city on the Civic Hybrid CVT is 48. The EPA for city on the Civic EX is 34ish (or lower). That's at least *14* mpg, not 4 mpg. The highway EPA MPG for Civic Hybrid CVT is 47 (51 in the 5-speed). Highway EPA for Civic EX is 38. That's either 9 or 13 mpg, depending on which car you're comparing. Still better than 4 mpg.
Oh, Boring...
:-)
In a Toyota Prius you most certainly *will* be the first person out of the stop light. You may not stay at the head of the pack, but you *will* leave the light at the head of the class. Trust me.
If you'd ever test driven one (and floored the pedal) you would know this!
Kids, DO try this at home. By hitting the go pedal hard, you're asking the car to use the electric motors for propulsion -- exactly what the car is designed to do!
The Civic Hybrid looks EXACTLY like it's "normal-looking" counterpart, the gasoline-powered Honda Civic.
:-)
As for why they have such "stupid" looking designs...I assume you mean the new Prius and Insight... the teardrop shape gives excellent drag coefficient and therefore boosts MPGs/fuel economy. They don't make them look like that without a reason.
Oh, Coward...
Regarding your comment about where electricity comes from...You don't need *that* kind of electricity in a hybrid-electric vehicle! All of the electricity in the car comes from regenerative braking (during which energy is stored in the battery) or from replenishment by the gasoline engine. No plugs, none at all, on hybrid-electic vehicles currently available in the U.S.
As for your comment on Performance, hybrid electric vehicles can pick 'em up and put 'em down. The electric torque at low speeds greatly increases the available hp under acceleration, and the CVT has none of those annoying "hitches" when it shifts -- it's smooth, and if you've ever dragged someone, you know what a time-waster the "lurch" is when you have to shift (or when your engine shifts).
As for hydrogen fuel cell cars... WHERE do you think the energy to refine the hydrogen is going to come from? That's right: Fossil Fuels. Fuel cells aren't the perfect solution!
Actually, many things about the Honda Civic Hybrid can be taken care of by your local mechanic. Many small mechanics are learning what they need to do to take care of these cars (they are not as "unusual" as the Prius under the hood). I know of an independent mechanic in a small town not far from here who purchased the service manuals, the 0w20 oil, and is now working on Honda Civic Hybrids -- and he's not a dealer. :-)
If you buy it, they will come. They will also learn to fix it.
However, the Prius does indeed need to have much of its servicing (other than oil changes) done at a dealer who does have a Certified Prius Tech on staff. Most dealerships do.
Regarding your post "c": The batteries have to be replaced "eventually" -- just like the engine, tires, brakes, etc. Batteries are expected to last the life of the car, so, it's really a non-issue when purchasing the car new. Pocket your gas savings toward the purchase of that battery, if you're really worried about it... SULEV Hybrid Civics warrant the battery for 150,000 miles (ULEV Hybrid Civics and Toyota Prius warrant for 80,000 or 100,000 miles). How long do you drive YOUR cars? Will that be enough for you? :-)
A diesel TDI has greater particulate emissions than a gasoline hybrid-electric vehicle. European diesel is much cleaner than diesel cars/fuel available in the United States.
Actually, Hybrid cars are excellent for highway driving! Only one part of driving a hybrid is the regenerative braking -- the other part is the fact that the electric motors assist the gasoline engine while driving, making for some excellent MPGs on the highway, too!
Before you excuse them as non-workable for you, you ought to test drive one and see the great MPGs you get on your commute.
Michael,
Hybrid-electric vehicles are excellent choices for many people. You have choice between Honda's Insight (a sporty two-seater that gets 50-70 mpg, depending on 5-spd or CVT), Honda's Civic Hybrid (a hybrid-electric version of the popular Civic sedan), and the Toyota Prius (used to be a compact sedan, but is redesigned for '04 to a mid-size hatchback).
I'd recommend that you check the user groups at Yahoo! for more reading than you can do in a day. Pros, cons, problems, kudos, recalls, praise, success stories of 500- and 600-mile tanks -- all for your reading pleasure.
Try searching Yahoo for (in alphabetical order):
2004-Prius
civic_hybrid
Honda_Civic_Hybrid
Honda_Hybrid
Toyota-Prius