And we're not being racist, we're culturist - we believe our culture is far superior to Pakistan, or any other Islamic hellhole. Then again, I suppose that's not really saying much.
You've actually contradicted yourself in the same sentence - surely if you believe your culture is *superior* to anyone else, that makes you a racist.
We're not all zealots - some of us consider software to be nothing more than something to get a job done or to entertain.
Open Source has been around for decades, it hasn't stopped commercial software companies making huge amounts of money in the process.
If I "preach" to friends or family about Open Source then it's because I want to make them aware that they have a free alternative if they want to consider it, but ultimately it's down to them what software they use.
No, I get on with my life and not let pathetically trivial things ruin my day.
And if you're so "big and brave", rather than sitting there and cowering behind your Facebook cloak of anonymity, show your *REAL* conviction and belief in Free Speech - go sit outside a mosque and hand out your cartoons, then I'll start believing you.
Oh, right. So you mean all the increased security at airports and millions of extra pounds/dollars/Euros spent on homeland security hasn't already woken up the general populace that we're under constant terrorist threat from radical extremists?
You're actually all cowards. Rather than just getting on with your normal life and not letting something pathetically trivial getting to you, you sit there behind your cloaks of anonymity drawing your silly cartoons knowing that it's unlikely anyone will ever *REALLY* find out who you are anyway.
I'll tell you what will impress me and make me believe you're fighting for Free Speech and not just creating a channel to justify your own racism - go sit outside a mosque and hand out your cartoons, or even better, go spraypaint a cartoon on its walls. Then I'll actually start believing your conviction in Free Speech.
You seem to be confusing the freedom of speech with "Freedom to do whatever the fuck I like". They aren't the same thing.
Why does it matter that there's a difference? Oh I see, by Freedom Of Speech you mean you want laws in place that protect you when you say or do such things... right. And those laws are going to stop a radical extremist strapping on a bomb and blowing you up?
What you are telling me is I am free to say "Jesus is a bum pounding mother fucker", but I can't I am free to say "Mohamed if a cock sucking kiddie fiddler". What is the difference? Answer: there isn't one. I have the right to say that; but a muslim is not free to kill me for it.
Yes, you can say or write what you like but as I say, yet again, as a responsible adult you face the consequences of those actions.
I'm sorry but you and many others are using this anti-Mohammed "protest" (if you can call typing in the word "Mohammed" followed by a few swear words a "protest", or indeed drawing a silly picture of him) as a channel for your own racism because now you have a reason and justification to be racist.
But it does affect you. Their behaviour is telling you how you feel and think, and you are defending that. How can you not see that as infringing on your personal freedoms, and as such "affecting you"?
"Yes, because the first thing I want to do the moment I wake up in the morning is draw a caricature of a religious idol but I'm not allowed to do it because I might get killed."
My friend, live in the real world. We're in a multi-cultural society these days, we have no option but to live side-by-side with people who look and think differently - that means we make some compromises like not using "the N word" any more when referring to black people and, yes, not deliberately inciting religious hatred just because we don't hold the same religious beliefs that they do.
Just like most Catholic priests aren't pedophiles, most Muslims aren't radical extremists. So stop with the racism.
They are radical religious zealots, they're going to try to blow you up anyway, you scribbling silly cartoons of their prophets just gives them the justification they need to do it and probably rallies less radical zealots to their cause.
Like I said already, say what you like because you have the freedom to do that - just be prepared to face the consequences of saying it.
And you're a hypocrite, by the way - you're asking for freedom of speech that allows you to do or say what you like, yet you believe you have a right to impose on Muslims how deeply they should take their beliefs.
Personally, all organised religion sucks but if other people want to go and believe in something then so be it - and as long as it doesn't affect me I'll respect their rights to do that.
Like I said already, if it's worth fighting for I'll fight for it.
And don't assume everyone on here is an American with American values because then you just show your complete ignorance - I'm British, proud of it and couldn't give a damn about your Rebublican or Democrat politics.
It's precisely for the reasons I explained why I don't live in fear.
If something is important to me then I will fight for it, otherwise my life is too busy and fun without having to occupy my mind with trivia. I believe strongly in "live and let live".
I would suggest that those of you demanding this right to offend someone else are those living in fear and just trying to find an excuse to justify your own racist views.
Respect is earned. More importantly, even if it's initially assumed, it's easily lost through one's actions or even beliefs.
Right, but if everyone sits there insisting "Respect is earned" then nobody ever respects anyone else because everyone is sat there waiting for it - sometimes it's about demonstrating that you can make the first move to break that impasse.
Islam has done absolutely nothing positive to earn respect in the last several centuries, and a lot of negative things to lose it.
Who's talking about respecting Islam? I don't respect Islam, I just respect peoples' rights to believe whatever they want and as long as they don't impact my life doing it, they can do what they like.
And if that means I shouldn't draw a few images that I probably wouldn't be interested in drawing in the first place, then so what?
What about, say, the kids who would be oppressed if your lack of censorship meant the distribution of child pornography was not a criminal offence because of your Free Speech?
My friend, it takes more than a First Amendment to build a civilised society - it's not just about having the right to say what you like but also having enough respect for everyone else in your society so that you understand how they might react once you say it.
And if you consider a right to draw religious cartoons as being important, then can I suggest you get yourself a better hobby, because you clearly have far too much free time in your day.
So what you are saying is that the appropriate course of action to take when someone offends you is to kill the person.
No, not at all. I'm saying "be aware of the consequences of your actions before you do them." And if it's not that important you do them, why bother in the first place?
I'm allowed to take as much offense as I please. I am not, however, allowed to behead him (or do any harm to him/her) for doing so.
Neatly sidetracked but you didn't answer the question so I know the answer you'd give - yes, you'd be offended just like I or anyone else would, that might make you angry and you might then lash out.
The fact that you can't perceive the difference makes you one or more of the following:
1. stupid 2. sociopath
Well I guess that makes you a telepathic empath then because I'm not sure I could determine that much about a person from a few lines they'd written. Well done, but WRONG!!!
I wouldn't laugh at it, I would respect their right to free speech and do nothing. I don't believe in censorship of any kind, they have their right to post what they want, I post what I want, if I don't like it -gasp- I don't have to look at it.
Rubbish! What if your son got in injured in Afghanistan? Or your brother or sister?
And like I said in my other reply - you telling them how deeply they should hold their own religious beliefs is utter hypocrisy on your part.
If something is important to you then it's worth fighting for, that's why people joined armed forces and fight wars overseas in the first place.
I simply don't believe that the right to attack someone else's religious beliefs is particularly important because I'm a mature adult that understands some people need religion to get through their day and others don't - end of story.
There's a big distinction between me drawing a picture and running someone over. The former doesn't physically hurt anyone and the latter does. The point at which my rights come into conflict with other's rights is the point at which the law should come into play. Anything before that is just someone making up laws to be obeyed not to benefit society.
Okay, so how about a Muslim cartoonist starts drawing cartoons of injured soldiers in Afghanistan? What about if your son or brother got injured or killed over there? Are you *REALLY* supposed to sit back and not take offence at it? And why's that any different? Who do you think *YOU* are dictating to someone else what relevance they should put on their own beliefs? And why is that any different to you believing they are inflicting their radicalist views on you?
If you're referring to the Columbine massacres, that occurred with a small group of troubled teens who had a lack of parental supervision, the know-how to make or obtain weapons, and were harassed over a period of years. I fail see how constant emotional abuse is trivial to drawing a picture. If you're referring to some other massacre, most cases will point to some form of gang violence. The youths in those cases usually have a bleak future and are peer-pressured into violence to fit-in/survive.
Oh, I see it now... you're basically saying violence is justified as long as it originates from an American!
So you're for free speech as long as everyone's careful not to offend anyone? That shows a profound lack of intelligence on your part.
Read my other responses if you want answers to your other points because I'm not repeating myself over and over again.
I don't *believe* in Free Speech because it already exists - you now, at this moment in time, can go do or say what you like to whoever you like.
But you have to accept there are possibly *CONSEQUENCES* to saying those things, and therefore you need to be aware of those consequences before you say those things in the first place.
If I went into the office tomorrow and my boss told me he'd cut my salary by 20%, I'd go and say something to him about it. A consequence of my saying something might mean I lose my job completely, but since 20% of my salary is important to me, I'm still going to say it to him.
Being able to acceptably draw cartoons of Mohammed *ISN'T* that important to me, therefore I don't feel the need to do it in the first place, therefore my *RIGHT* to do it is irrelevant.
Slashdot Mirror
Thanks for that, I guess it makes it okay then.
And we're not being racist, we're culturist - we believe our culture is far superior to Pakistan, or any other Islamic hellhole. Then again, I suppose that's not really saying much.
You've actually contradicted yourself in the same sentence - surely if you believe your culture is *superior* to anyone else, that makes you a racist.
Someone had changed the book title to "The Load Ahead" and cut and pasted a huge dollop of sh*t into the road behind Gates on the cover.
I used to have a copy of the image somewhere, it always made me smile but I appear to have lost it.
We're not all zealots - some of us consider software to be nothing more than something to get a job done or to entertain.
Open Source has been around for decades, it hasn't stopped commercial software companies making huge amounts of money in the process.
If I "preach" to friends or family about Open Source then it's because I want to make them aware that they have a free alternative if they want to consider it, but ultimately it's down to them what software they use.
No, I get on with my life and not let pathetically trivial things ruin my day.
And if you're so "big and brave", rather than sitting there and cowering behind your Facebook cloak of anonymity, show your *REAL* conviction and belief in Free Speech - go sit outside a mosque and hand out your cartoons, then I'll start believing you.
You're the one living in fear, not me...
Oh, right. So you mean all the increased security at airports and millions of extra pounds/dollars/Euros spent on homeland security hasn't already woken up the general populace that we're under constant terrorist threat from radical extremists?
You're actually all cowards. Rather than just getting on with your normal life and not letting something pathetically trivial getting to you, you sit there behind your cloaks of anonymity drawing your silly cartoons knowing that it's unlikely anyone will ever *REALLY* find out who you are anyway.
I'll tell you what will impress me and make me believe you're fighting for Free Speech and not just creating a channel to justify your own racism - go sit outside a mosque and hand out your cartoons, or even better, go spraypaint a cartoon on its walls. Then I'll actually start believing your conviction in Free Speech.
You seem to be confusing the freedom of speech with "Freedom to do whatever the fuck I like". They aren't the same thing.
Why does it matter that there's a difference? Oh I see, by Freedom Of Speech you mean you want laws in place that protect you when you say or do such things... right. And those laws are going to stop a radical extremist strapping on a bomb and blowing you up?
What you are telling me is I am free to say "Jesus is a bum pounding mother fucker", but I can't I am free to say "Mohamed if a cock sucking kiddie fiddler". What is the difference? Answer: there isn't one. I have the right to say that; but a muslim is not free to kill me for it.
Yes, you can say or write what you like but as I say, yet again, as a responsible adult you face the consequences of those actions.
I'm sorry but you and many others are using this anti-Mohammed "protest" (if you can call typing in the word "Mohammed" followed by a few swear words a "protest", or indeed drawing a silly picture of him) as a channel for your own racism because now you have a reason and justification to be racist.
But it does affect you. Their behaviour is telling you how you feel and think, and you are defending that. How can you not see that as infringing on your personal freedoms, and as such "affecting you"?
"Yes, because the first thing I want to do the moment I wake up in the morning is draw a caricature of a religious idol but I'm not allowed to do it because I might get killed."
My friend, live in the real world. We're in a multi-cultural society these days, we have no option but to live side-by-side with people who look and think differently - that means we make some compromises like not using "the N word" any more when referring to black people and, yes, not deliberately inciting religious hatred just because we don't hold the same religious beliefs that they do.
Just like most Catholic priests aren't pedophiles, most Muslims aren't radical extremists. So stop with the racism.
That will fill up about two lines of text then - what are you going to do with the rest of the space?
They are radical religious zealots, they're going to try to blow you up anyway, you scribbling silly cartoons of their prophets just gives them the justification they need to do it and probably rallies less radical zealots to their cause.
I hope you're not an American because by all accounts very few of you actually know where these countries are in the world...
I don't know about Pakistan but in the UAE (Dubai, Abu-Dhabi, etc.) the Internet is completely proxied such that any "suspect" web sites are blocked.
In that case, first person who raises their hand can have my iPad share allocation!
Like I said already, say what you like because you have the freedom to do that - just be prepared to face the consequences of saying it.
And you're a hypocrite, by the way - you're asking for freedom of speech that allows you to do or say what you like, yet you believe you have a right to impose on Muslims how deeply they should take their beliefs.
Personally, all organised religion sucks but if other people want to go and believe in something then so be it - and as long as it doesn't affect me I'll respect their rights to do that.
Like I said already, if it's worth fighting for I'll fight for it.
And don't assume everyone on here is an American with American values because then you just show your complete ignorance - I'm British, proud of it and couldn't give a damn about your Rebublican or Democrat politics.
Exactly right. Which is why I'm prepared to put up with not drawing cartoons of Mohammed for fear of offending someone.
It's precisely for the reasons I explained why I don't live in fear.
If something is important to me then I will fight for it, otherwise my life is too busy and fun without having to occupy my mind with trivia. I believe strongly in "live and let live".
I would suggest that those of you demanding this right to offend someone else are those living in fear and just trying to find an excuse to justify your own racist views.
We have a thing called a legal system meaning that neither you or anyone else has a need to take some kind of vigilante stance on this. Dickhead.
Respect is earned. More importantly, even if it's initially assumed, it's easily lost through one's actions or even beliefs.
Right, but if everyone sits there insisting "Respect is earned" then nobody ever respects anyone else because everyone is sat there waiting for it - sometimes it's about demonstrating that you can make the first move to break that impasse.
Islam has done absolutely nothing positive to earn respect in the last several centuries, and a lot of negative things to lose it.
Who's talking about respecting Islam? I don't respect Islam, I just respect peoples' rights to believe whatever they want and as long as they don't impact my life doing it, they can do what they like.
And if that means I shouldn't draw a few images that I probably wouldn't be interested in drawing in the first place, then so what?
That censorship leads to tyranny and oppression.
What about, say, the kids who would be oppressed if your lack of censorship meant the distribution of child pornography was not a criminal offence because of your Free Speech?
My friend, it takes more than a First Amendment to build a civilised society - it's not just about having the right to say what you like but also having enough respect for everyone else in your society so that you understand how they might react once you say it.
And if you consider a right to draw religious cartoons as being important, then can I suggest you get yourself a better hobby, because you clearly have far too much free time in your day.
So what you are saying is that the appropriate course of action to take when someone offends you is to kill the person.
No, not at all. I'm saying "be aware of the consequences of your actions before you do them." And if it's not that important you do them, why bother in the first place?
I'm allowed to take as much offense as I please. I am not, however, allowed to behead him (or do any harm to him/her) for doing so.
Neatly sidetracked but you didn't answer the question so I know the answer you'd give - yes, you'd be offended just like I or anyone else would, that might make you angry and you might then lash out.
The fact that you can't perceive the difference makes you one or more of the following:
1. stupid
2. sociopath
Well I guess that makes you a telepathic empath then because I'm not sure I could determine that much about a person from a few lines they'd written. Well done, but WRONG!!!
I wouldn't laugh at it, I would respect their right to free speech and do nothing. I don't believe in censorship of any kind, they have their right to post what they want, I post what I want, if I don't like it -gasp- I don't have to look at it.
Rubbish! What if your son got in injured in Afghanistan? Or your brother or sister?
And like I said in my other reply - you telling them how deeply they should hold their own religious beliefs is utter hypocrisy on your part.
I should just tolerate this?
Stop being a nitpicking dickhead.
If something is important to you then it's worth fighting for, that's why people joined armed forces and fight wars overseas in the first place.
I simply don't believe that the right to attack someone else's religious beliefs is particularly important because I'm a mature adult that understands some people need religion to get through their day and others don't - end of story.
There's a big distinction between me drawing a picture and running someone over. The former doesn't physically hurt anyone and the latter does. The point at which my rights come into conflict with other's rights is the point at which the law should come into play. Anything before that is just someone making up laws to be obeyed not to benefit society.
Okay, so how about a Muslim cartoonist starts drawing cartoons of injured soldiers in Afghanistan? What about if your son or brother got injured or killed over there? Are you *REALLY* supposed to sit back and not take offence at it? And why's that any different? Who do you think *YOU* are dictating to someone else what relevance they should put on their own beliefs? And why is that any different to you believing they are inflicting their radicalist views on you?
If you're referring to the Columbine massacres, that occurred with a small group of troubled teens who had a lack of parental supervision, the know-how to make or obtain weapons, and were harassed over a period of years. I fail see how constant emotional abuse is trivial to drawing a picture. If you're referring to some other massacre, most cases will point to some form of gang violence. The youths in those cases usually have a bleak future and are peer-pressured into violence to fit-in/survive.
Oh, I see it now... you're basically saying violence is justified as long as it originates from an American!
So you're for free speech as long as everyone's careful not to offend anyone? That shows a profound lack of intelligence on your part.
Read my other responses if you want answers to your other points because I'm not repeating myself over and over again.
I don't *believe* in Free Speech because it already exists - you now, at this moment in time, can go do or say what you like to whoever you like.
But you have to accept there are possibly *CONSEQUENCES* to saying those things, and therefore you need to be aware of those consequences before you say those things in the first place.
If I went into the office tomorrow and my boss told me he'd cut my salary by 20%, I'd go and say something to him about it. A consequence of my saying something might mean I lose my job completely, but since 20% of my salary is important to me, I'm still going to say it to him.
Being able to acceptably draw cartoons of Mohammed *ISN'T* that important to me, therefore I don't feel the need to do it in the first place, therefore my *RIGHT* to do it is irrelevant.