One student summed it up very succinctly by saying "If the news is that important, it will find me.
Which, of course, actually means:
I am typical of today's youth in as much as if it isn't something designed to entertain, feed or clothe me, then quite frankly I am too bloody bone idle to give a toss about it.
So thanks for agreeing with what the older generation has been saying for years.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Amongst Joe Public (the majority of users), Apple is know for a music player called the iPod, Sony is known for games consoles, TVs and home theatre equipment, Dell is known for computers, etc. etc. Yep, Apple probably does have the portable music market pretty much sewn up with the iPod but I doubt they're the first company that comes to mind when someone says the word "entertainment".
And again, I stress, the dependency that made the iPod a success was having a Windows PC to download music to it.
Yes, now that Linux runs in every home and hardly anyone ever uses Microsoft's Word format anymore...
One of the major reasons, if not the major reason, that Windows is in just about every home is the fact that Microsoft themselves opened up Windows to the open protocols of TCP/IP which allowed Windows to connect to the Internet in the first place.
Yep, this was a good move by Microsoft doing this to Windows For Workgroups around about 1993 - this was, incidentally, 10 years after UNIX had implemented it. But had they not done it and stubbornly stuck to NetBIOS and IPX/SPX, then to connect to the Internet in 2008 you'd need to use a UNIX-like OS or whatever else was about today, and not Windows.
I'm not saying your statement is in any way wrong, and I really don't care how many people run Linux, but I'm just trying to show you that things really aren't quite as "black and white" as you're making them appear.
Although gaming has largely stayed in the PC world, people flock to Apple for entertainment and other things cool.
Sorry, just where is this flock?
And what can a Mac do about entertainment that can't be done on a Windows PC? I use Linux primarily but I've not found any movies or sound files that can't be played on either. I'll admit that if I ever owned an iPod, I'd be buggered with Linux but I can certainly connect it to an Windows PC.
Yep, iPods a popular and an Apple success story but its the fact that it can be connected to a Windows PC that can download files to it that has made it a success story.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a reflection of more and more Macheads entering the workforce and staying loyal to Apple
I hate to say this, Nostradamus, but rather than seeing more Mac users these days (not that here in the UK I've ever seen more than two anyway - and one of those was an American), all I see are one or two more Linux users and a whole heap more of complaining Windows (Vista) users.
Many (most?) middle-aged people think that you can't do anything about your computer or OS, but the younger generation believes otherwise.
Actually, most young people cannot actually be bothered to do anything about their computer or OS apart from getting their parents to buy them a new computer. It actually takes middle-age to find the patience to start exploring other OSes as I myself am now finding as friends of mine are beginning to ask me more and more about Linux as an alternative to Windows.
Oh, and by the way, not one has asked me about Macs...
It's native OS is based on BSD but isn't BSD. It's also been "revamped" to make it as usable as possible for inexperienced users. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but a geek prefers to tweak things the way he/she likes it rather than just have it already made out of the box.
Two questions:
When was a geek ever accused of wearing hip, fashionable clothing?
If it's not the case, why did Apple themselves in their "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" advertising campaign display the Mac as a hip, young youth and the PC as a geeky looking guy?
And again, this is pretty much the coolest object I've ever owned.
You realise, of course, that you are your own worst enemy?
I mean, you use Linux because you're into what it does, what Open Source is or maybe a bit of both. But you then go and buy a device that clearly does not do what you need it to do purely because it's "cool".
So since Apple now have your money, what incentive do they have to open iTunes or other functionality up to Linux?
The thing I enjoy most about the responses to this article is the rather predictable "Ha, so Apple DOES suck!!! Take that fanbois!" responses.
And the reason why the responses are so predictable is because every time there is a vulnerability in Windows or Linux, the smug Apple fanbois come out in their droves saying "Ha, Microsoft/Linux sucks!"
So shut up and let the rest of us non-Apple users well and truly engage our smug modes for a change and bash hell out of you/them.
Nice try, but it's pretty obvious based on previous predictions that you people don't know what the hell your talking about.
And you do by making an analogy to that having opinions on a small insignificant electronic device are the same as having opinions about war which is that thing where a lot of people get killed???
I'd suggest it makes you look somewhat small-minded by having the audacity to make such a stupid comparison in the first place.
Nope, but obviously you're an individual who is "a sandwich or two short of a picnic" and far too quick to respond to gut reaction. Please take a pill, calm yourself down and read my post properly.
If you do so, you will see that I was correcting the original poster's incorrect statements and highlighting the mindset of the people who contribute to Apple's success. I do not believe anywhere that I made any statements about Apple's success.
And no, I've no idea of their stock price because I neither own or have any interest in stocks. Money is purely a means to an end, it is not something I care enough about to drool all over the Financial Times about.
Do you people really have that much difficulty in visualing the possibility that other people out here have absolutely no interest in the colour, shape or logo on a device but prefer to buy something based upon how well it is built, how well it meets our needs and its price?
I personally have absolutely no need for status symbols. I am quite confident that when people meet me, they will make up their own minds about me based on how I talk to them and my general bearing and if they do need to see some kind of status symbol to make a judgement about me, then they're probably such shallow minded individuals that I have no interest in knowing them either.
If you personally feel that you need to display some kind of corporate logo to get on in life, then that can only mean you have personality failings elsewhere due to a lack of confidence in yourself in being able to win people over purely by who you are.
Yes, I own a mass-produced Dell laptop that runs Linux and XP that works perfectly fine and does all I need it to. And by all means, if you see me using it in a public place then come sit near me and get your jollies by sneering down at me for not being a corporate whore - I won't notice a damn thing because I'll be too busy working on something that is actually important in my life.
Apple is merely doing what they do with all of their products, limit the flexibility to improve stability and the quality of the experience.
Well, I'll say one thing - that's the lamest excuse I've ever seen for Apple's failings...
So let me get this straight - if you honestly believe that limiting the flexibility of a product improves its stability, then you would not buy an iPhone. Instead you would buy a basic featured phone, an MP3 player, a palmtop, etc. etc. because each of those individual products has less flexibilty and therefore (by your argument) better stability.
The phrase "foist by your own petard" springs to mind.
I think there is a strong tendency for Slashdot users to see hardware through the eye of a Linux user or an application developer.
The last time I looked, Linux was software not hardware. Jeez, some people will try to find any excuse to drag Linux into an argument...
If Slashdot ideals applied to markets as a whole, then Windows wouldn't be 98% market share and Internet Explorer wouldn't be 94%.
If Apple's ideals applied to markets as a whole, we'd all be slobbering magpies waiting for the next shiny object from Apple to appear...
Most people don't want to play "with stuff", they just want it to work reliably with a standard set of features.
You second contradiction of yourself - see my first point regarding separate devices.
As such, Apple has been very successful in, for instance, limiting their hardware choices and software choices.
Nope, it's been very successful at flashing a mirror reflection into the eyes of the slobbering magpies. Or will you deny that the higher cost of any Apple product is not at least partly due to it being made to look like a fashion accessory? And by virtue of it being pretty to look at, this serves to divert attention from any possible restrictions of the device itself?
Okay, so maybe the downside is that I always have to wear a jacket with numerous pockets but the fact is that my standalone MP3 player has a longer battery life and is less fiddly to use than any all-in-one phone, my digital camera takes more and better pictures than any all-in-one phone, and my phone only makes clear calls and stores a few numbers but has to be charged a whole lot less than any all-in-one phone I've ever seen.
Plus if lose any one of those separate devices, I can get over it. Has anyone stopped to consider that dependency on a single all-in-one device means it's pretty much always in use? Therefore it will wear out quicker and be less likely to be backed up?
Perhaps "innovation-hungry users" should be changed for "those saps who are both insecure and gullible enough to pay good money for something that an advert tells them will make them cool and acceptable to their fellow mankind".
The definition of a geek is someone who is seriously into technology and who spends vast amounts of time reading books, manuals and generally tinkering about in order to understand that technology as best as possible and buy the best technology for his/her money.
So why would a geek buy any device that is designed as part fashion-accessory and has a premium price for that reason?
You seem to forget that the Apple people survive on diets of Starbucks Skinny Lattes and Skinny Blueberry muffins and have spent so much on their MBAs that they can only afford a maximum of one each per day as they sit in an appropriately placed chair such that everyone who walks into the store gets the reflective glint of the Apple logo directly in their eyes as they walk in.
Ultimately, this miniscule diet, along with sitting about and posing all day without any form of exercise, results in extreme muscle wastage eventually making it impossible for the Mac user to even attempt to try and carry something as big as a Dell XPS.
As it happens, this is part of Apple's own marketing strategy because as muscle wastage continues, even the MBA becomes too heavy so the unfortunate MAC owner then needs to buy something even lighter in order to continue to enjoy its computing experience - thus the way is paved for an even lighter machine to be released.
Right - in which case Open Source it or offer it as a free, unrestricted download to anybody who wants to find an alternative to IE or even Firefox. Surely that's the best way of getting more eyes to it rather than sneaking it in through the back door with iTunes.
I do wish the Slashdot moderators would clamp down on the idiots who moderate a valid point as "Troll" purely because they don't agree with the content.
Oh, I forgot... this is a discussion about Apple, you've criticised their beloved products and the Apple zealots get mod points also.
If you buy a new PC with, say, XP installed on it, the first time you start it up you will be presented with the EULA which you can either accept or reject. If you accept it, XP sets itself up and off you go, if not then the installation stops at that point and leaves you to it.
I'm not saying the way this is implemented is right, but from a legal perspective (and IANAL) the onus is on you to read the EULA and understand it before accepting it.
And since the EULA will no doubt say somewhere that you cannot make or sell copies of that same software, presumably the many litigations against software pirates have been carried out based on the contents of the EULA.
You know that and I know that, true. But someone who is not knowledgeable enough to make an intelligent decision about whether or not to install Safari alongside iTunes and just click default settings, then they're probably not knowledgeable enough to recognise phishing sites or to not browse dangerous sites.
Apple doing this with Safari is entirely irresponsible - just as Microsoft, Red Hat, SuSE, etc. would be if they did the same thing.
I know babies can't help it, but the parents could at least try and comfort them instead of letting them scream their heads off.
My view on it is quite simple - an entity that is in a state of maturation whereby all it does is eat, sleep, cry a lot and shit itself probably does not give a tinker's cuss whether or not it spends two weeks in Benidorm or two weeks in the home of its grandparents so save some money and leave the bloody thing at home!
We already have far too many problems from uneducated idiots breeding like rats with their own kin and causing the creation of far too many chavs in this once-great country of ours.
These idiots are the social equivalent to US trailer trash with the same lack of attention to proper dentistry, but with enough benefit money leeched from we honest tax payers to be able to afford the latest mobile telephones and countless numbers of spoilers in an attempt to turn their shitty little cars into something that looks like, but doesn't go anywhere near as fast as, an F-15 fighter aircraft.
It is this same social undercurrent that drag their rattish litters onto commercial aircraft once a year in order to enjoy eating fish and chips in the sunshine of Benidorm in Spain. These half-wits are so mindbogglingly stupid that they will probably do without a packet of "fags" and four cans of export lager just to make phone calls on aircraft as loudly as possible just because it gets right up the noses of every other non-chav passenger on the same plane.
"Oooh, look Shazza. We're up in the air now, let's phone your half-sister mother Tracy and she how many cheap fags she wants brought back wiv us!"
God forbid! I hope they also give the attendants a few extra pairs of rubber gloves for the flight because they're going to need them in order to hygenically retrieve the mobile phone of the first dolt that uses a mobile phone on a plane near me.
Like I said in mu original reply, I use XP and Linux because they both give me something I need and I don't mind using either, at least until Linux can do all that XP can do currently.
I spend a lot of time maintaining both OSes and as a result they both work pretty well for me. AS for updating being "smooth", surely that depends on how much you know about each OS and how quick you can fix stuff if it goes wrong.
I'm not going to repeat myself but as I stated previously, I find compiling from source pretty painless in Gentoo, albeit some compilations can take a while to complete. If you don't agree, fine, you don't agree but the original comment was about OSes that can do rolling updates and Gentoo can do that.
Don't try to turn this into a Windows v Linux war - I use both and am happy to continue doing so.
I update on a relatively regular basis and yes there are problems occasionally as I mentioned in my original post. But then I'm sure leaving updates on any OS for a long period of time might result in the same.
I do play with masked packages though the worth architecture I use is "~x86". Incidentally, for Linux server, I use only Gentoo in my lab at work and it's absolutely fine. Is it more stable or reliable than a distro with precompiled packages? I don't know, I find it pretty stable and if there's an occasional portage or dependency issue, I can usually work it out or get round it.
You don't like Gentoo, so don't use it. I do and it's good enough for me to continue doing so until something better comes along.
As to my lack of experience, I've 25 years UNIX experience, at least 10 with Linux and I'm a Red Hat Certified Engineer - so please don't make stupid assumptions about people from a few lines of text they happen to write.
Slashdot Mirror
Which, of course, actually means:
I am typical of today's youth in as much as if it isn't something designed to entertain, feed or clothe me, then quite frankly I am too bloody bone idle to give a toss about it.
So thanks for agreeing with what the older generation has been saying for years.
Erm... NetBIOS... erm... Solitaire... erm... erm ... HELP EVERYONE! WE CAN GET TO TEN!!!
And again, I stress, the dependency that made the iPod a success was having a Windows PC to download music to it.
One of the major reasons, if not the major reason, that Windows is in just about every home is the fact that Microsoft themselves opened up Windows to the open protocols of TCP/IP which allowed Windows to connect to the Internet in the first place.
Yep, this was a good move by Microsoft doing this to Windows For Workgroups around about 1993 - this was, incidentally, 10 years after UNIX had implemented it. But had they not done it and stubbornly stuck to NetBIOS and IPX/SPX, then to connect to the Internet in 2008 you'd need to use a UNIX-like OS or whatever else was about today, and not Windows.
I'm not saying your statement is in any way wrong, and I really don't care how many people run Linux, but I'm just trying to show you that things really aren't quite as "black and white" as you're making them appear.
Sorry, just where is this flock?
And what can a Mac do about entertainment that can't be done on a Windows PC? I use Linux primarily but I've not found any movies or sound files that can't be played on either. I'll admit that if I ever owned an iPod, I'd be buggered with Linux but I can certainly connect it to an Windows PC.
Yep, iPods a popular and an Apple success story but its the fact that it can be connected to a Windows PC that can download files to it that has made it a success story.
I hate to say this, Nostradamus, but rather than seeing more Mac users these days (not that here in the UK I've ever seen more than two anyway - and one of those was an American), all I see are one or two more Linux users and a whole heap more of complaining Windows (Vista) users.
Many (most?) middle-aged people think that you can't do anything about your computer or OS, but the younger generation believes otherwise.
Actually, most young people cannot actually be bothered to do anything about their computer or OS apart from getting their parents to buy them a new computer. It actually takes middle-age to find the patience to start exploring other OSes as I myself am now finding as friends of mine are beginning to ask me more and more about Linux as an alternative to Windows.
Oh, and by the way, not one has asked me about Macs...
Two questions:
When was a geek ever accused of wearing hip, fashionable clothing?
If it's not the case, why did Apple themselves in their "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" advertising campaign display the Mac as a hip, young youth and the PC as a geeky looking guy?
You realise, of course, that you are your own worst enemy?
I mean, you use Linux because you're into what it does, what Open Source is or maybe a bit of both. But you then go and buy a device that clearly does not do what you need it to do purely because it's "cool".
So since Apple now have your money, what incentive do they have to open iTunes or other functionality up to Linux?
And the reason why the responses are so predictable is because every time there is a vulnerability in Windows or Linux, the smug Apple fanbois come out in their droves saying "Ha, Microsoft/Linux sucks!"
So shut up and let the rest of us non-Apple users well and truly engage our smug modes for a change and bash hell out of you/them.
And you do by making an analogy to that having opinions on a small insignificant electronic device are the same as having opinions about war which is that thing where a lot of people get killed???
I'd suggest it makes you look somewhat small-minded by having the audacity to make such a stupid comparison in the first place.
If you do so, you will see that I was correcting the original poster's incorrect statements and highlighting the mindset of the people who contribute to Apple's success. I do not believe anywhere that I made any statements about Apple's success.
And no, I've no idea of their stock price because I neither own or have any interest in stocks. Money is purely a means to an end, it is not something I care enough about to drool all over the Financial Times about.
Do you people really have that much difficulty in visualing the possibility that other people out here have absolutely no interest in the colour, shape or logo on a device but prefer to buy something based upon how well it is built, how well it meets our needs and its price?
I personally have absolutely no need for status symbols. I am quite confident that when people meet me, they will make up their own minds about me based on how I talk to them and my general bearing and if they do need to see some kind of status symbol to make a judgement about me, then they're probably such shallow minded individuals that I have no interest in knowing them either.
If you personally feel that you need to display some kind of corporate logo to get on in life, then that can only mean you have personality failings elsewhere due to a lack of confidence in yourself in being able to win people over purely by who you are.
Yes, I own a mass-produced Dell laptop that runs Linux and XP that works perfectly fine and does all I need it to. And by all means, if you see me using it in a public place then come sit near me and get your jollies by sneering down at me for not being a corporate whore - I won't notice a damn thing because I'll be too busy working on something that is actually important in my life.
Well, I'll say one thing - that's the lamest excuse I've ever seen for Apple's failings...
So let me get this straight - if you honestly believe that limiting the flexibility of a product improves its stability, then you would not buy an iPhone. Instead you would buy a basic featured phone, an MP3 player, a palmtop, etc. etc. because each of those individual products has less flexibilty and therefore (by your argument) better stability.
The phrase "foist by your own petard" springs to mind.
I think there is a strong tendency for Slashdot users to see hardware through the eye of a Linux user or an application developer.
The last time I looked, Linux was software not hardware. Jeez, some people will try to find any excuse to drag Linux into an argument...
If Slashdot ideals applied to markets as a whole, then Windows wouldn't be 98% market share and Internet Explorer wouldn't be 94%.
If Apple's ideals applied to markets as a whole, we'd all be slobbering magpies waiting for the next shiny object from Apple to appear...
Most people don't want to play "with stuff", they just want it to work reliably with a standard set of features.
You second contradiction of yourself - see my first point regarding separate devices.
As such, Apple has been very successful in, for instance, limiting their hardware choices and software choices.
Nope, it's been very successful at flashing a mirror reflection into the eyes of the slobbering magpies. Or will you deny that the higher cost of any Apple product is not at least partly due to it being made to look like a fashion accessory? And by virtue of it being pretty to look at, this serves to divert attention from any possible restrictions of the device itself?
Okay, so maybe the downside is that I always have to wear a jacket with numerous pockets but the fact is that my standalone MP3 player has a longer battery life and is less fiddly to use than any all-in-one phone, my digital camera takes more and better pictures than any all-in-one phone, and my phone only makes clear calls and stores a few numbers but has to be charged a whole lot less than any all-in-one phone I've ever seen.
Plus if lose any one of those separate devices, I can get over it. Has anyone stopped to consider that dependency on a single all-in-one device means it's pretty much always in use? Therefore it will wear out quicker and be less likely to be backed up?
Perhaps "innovation-hungry users" should be changed for "those saps who are both insecure and gullible enough to pay good money for something that an advert tells them will make them cool and acceptable to their fellow mankind".
The definition of a geek is someone who is seriously into technology and who spends vast amounts of time reading books, manuals and generally tinkering about in order to understand that technology as best as possible and buy the best technology for his/her money.
So why would a geek buy any device that is designed as part fashion-accessory and has a premium price for that reason?
You seem to forget that the Apple people survive on diets of Starbucks Skinny Lattes and Skinny Blueberry muffins and have spent so much on their MBAs that they can only afford a maximum of one each per day as they sit in an appropriately placed chair such that everyone who walks into the store gets the reflective glint of the Apple logo directly in their eyes as they walk in.
Ultimately, this miniscule diet, along with sitting about and posing all day without any form of exercise, results in extreme muscle wastage eventually making it impossible for the Mac user to even attempt to try and carry something as big as a Dell XPS.
As it happens, this is part of Apple's own marketing strategy because as muscle wastage continues, even the MBA becomes too heavy so the unfortunate MAC owner then needs to buy something even lighter in order to continue to enjoy its computing experience - thus the way is paved for an even lighter machine to be released.
Right - in which case Open Source it or offer it as a free, unrestricted download to anybody who wants to find an alternative to IE or even Firefox. Surely that's the best way of getting more eyes to it rather than sneaking it in through the back door with iTunes.
Oh, I forgot... this is a discussion about Apple, you've criticised their beloved products and the Apple zealots get mod points also.
I'm not saying the way this is implemented is right, but from a legal perspective (and IANAL) the onus is on you to read the EULA and understand it before accepting it.
And since the EULA will no doubt say somewhere that you cannot make or sell copies of that same software, presumably the many litigations against software pirates have been carried out based on the contents of the EULA.
Apple doing this with Safari is entirely irresponsible - just as Microsoft, Red Hat, SuSE, etc. would be if they did the same thing.
What will happen next is that if I am on the plane, your cellphone will disappear down the nearest toilet.
My view on it is quite simple - an entity that is in a state of maturation whereby all it does is eat, sleep, cry a lot and shit itself probably does not give a tinker's cuss whether or not it spends two weeks in Benidorm or two weeks in the home of its grandparents so save some money and leave the bloody thing at home!
These idiots are the social equivalent to US trailer trash with the same lack of attention to proper dentistry, but with enough benefit money leeched from we honest tax payers to be able to afford the latest mobile telephones and countless numbers of spoilers in an attempt to turn their shitty little cars into something that looks like, but doesn't go anywhere near as fast as, an F-15 fighter aircraft.
It is this same social undercurrent that drag their rattish litters onto commercial aircraft once a year in order to enjoy eating fish and chips in the sunshine of Benidorm in Spain. These half-wits are so mindbogglingly stupid that they will probably do without a packet of "fags" and four cans of export lager just to make phone calls on aircraft as loudly as possible just because it gets right up the noses of every other non-chav passenger on the same plane.
"Oooh, look Shazza. We're up in the air now, let's phone your half-sister mother Tracy and she how many cheap fags she wants brought back wiv us!"
God forbid! I hope they also give the attendants a few extra pairs of rubber gloves for the flight because they're going to need them in order to hygenically retrieve the mobile phone of the first dolt that uses a mobile phone on a plane near me.
I spend a lot of time maintaining both OSes and as a result they both work pretty well for me. AS for updating being "smooth", surely that depends on how much you know about each OS and how quick you can fix stuff if it goes wrong.
I'm not going to repeat myself but as I stated previously, I find compiling from source pretty painless in Gentoo, albeit some compilations can take a while to complete. If you don't agree, fine, you don't agree but the original comment was about OSes that can do rolling updates and Gentoo can do that.
Don't try to turn this into a Windows v Linux war - I use both and am happy to continue doing so.
I do play with masked packages though the worth architecture I use is "~x86". Incidentally, for Linux server, I use only Gentoo in my lab at work and it's absolutely fine. Is it more stable or reliable than a distro with precompiled packages? I don't know, I find it pretty stable and if there's an occasional portage or dependency issue, I can usually work it out or get round it.
You don't like Gentoo, so don't use it. I do and it's good enough for me to continue doing so until something better comes along.
As to my lack of experience, I've 25 years UNIX experience, at least 10 with Linux and I'm a Red Hat Certified Engineer - so please don't make stupid assumptions about people from a few lines of text they happen to write.