You're arguing over semantics - there is no 'slashdot community', because slashdot is a website. There is no 'jennicam community', although it's a popular site. There is no 'cnn community', although that is a heavily-traffic'd site.
My, my. Isn't this, to use your colloquialism, the pot calling the kettle black? You start this whole thread rolling by telling me what a community is or isn't, disregarding that community has several meanings. And now I'm engaging in semantics? I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a universal understanding of the word community.
When I refer to slashdot as a community, I am using community in the context of neighborhood, a place to hang out, in the same vein that people refer to AOL as a community. A lot of people view slashdot as the place to be on the internet. When I wake up in the morning, rather than putting on tv, I pop into slashdot to see if there are any interesting articles, check on whether Cliff has posted my Ask Slashdot question (still waiting...) and to see if you and Kish are playing footsie (joke...relax). I'm sure there are others who view slashdot in the same manner.
You're right. If Rob's server blew up, slashdot probably wouldn't exist...temporarily. The problem with this analogy is that you assume that when I refer to slashdot that I am referring to what we see when we pull it up on our browser. Actually, what I'm referring to is is what slashdot embodies. It's something that a lot of people have desired for a long time; a place where we can express our views and hear others like us too; a place that doesn't patronize to us. A virtual community, if you will. Slashdot is really just the domain name for that spirit.
So, to pursue your analogy further, if Rob's servers blew up one day, despite the terrible angst we'd suffer, we would wait and hope for Rob to set up shop again and get to back to the business of providing an informing and entertaining forum for us. If for some reason Rob wasn't able to get it going again, I betcha someone, somewhere would revive it. You see, slashdot is not really Rob's baby anymore. It belongs to each of us. In the same way that the Amiga community or the Atari 2600 community is still out there kicking, the slashdot community would find a way too.
That's what I mean when I say community. I hope that explains things for you.
I won't be replying to any further posts on this topic - it's a waste of bandwidth and time. Goodbye.
I think it's time to put this thread to bed too, but I hope you at least read it so you know where I'm coming from.
You're just bitter from previous discussions with me. e.g.,
Hmmm. Until I revisited that link I had no idea that I had ever sparred with you before. You have a better memory than I do.
I'm not a hung up on the "fact" thing, as you claim. As a matter of fact, I am the first person to criticize someone who solely tries to prove a fact based on "statistics. You are correct; statistics can be bent. I don't think facts can be bent, however.
Statistic: 64% of consumers browse Internet with Internet Explorer
Who are these "consumers? What is the size of the study population? Do these people include ISP's like AOL who standardize on Internet Explorer?
Fact: A study was conducted to give a picture, admittedly non-conclusive, about browser choice among internet users.
I mention the fact issue because you (and others) criticize John Katz for what you consider "pulling stuff out of his ass"; in other words, you feel that he does not research his issues, rather he releases articles based on his "gut feeling", keying on topics that are certain to elicit comment from slashdot folks.
The best way to criticize someone's opinion, which is what Katz is really serving, is not to offer your own opinion. All you are doing in that case is offering up your own biased view of the world. You're better off looking for specific comments that offend you , and if the comments do not have a factual basis upon which to refute, offer commentary on why you feel offended.
Non-sensical rantings about "he sucks", or "he is ruining this place" don't garner you any points, at least not among people who like to see reasoned debate. Sure, you might appeal to a portion of the slashdot community, but for the most part, those people and their emotional rhetoric are tuned out.
Would you be so kind as to point me to the hacker/security community then? I would very much like to charter a bus there to see this wonderful civilization.
</sarcasm mode on>
Now for a touch of reality.
Here is a definition of community, as found on Merriam Webster's site
a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society <the academic (try substituting slashdot here Signall 11) community>
Instead of bragging about your high karma (face it, who cares), why don't you try opening your mind up?
I bet you're one of those guys who hate John Katz so much that you can't wait for him to write an article so you can rush in blinded by your pre-conceived notions about the skill of his writing and the content so you can write "John Katz sucks".
If you take issue with the fact that he has a forum on slashdot, you have a couple of options:
Stop reading his articles
Stop reading slashdot
Create your own website/community and invite all the people you respect to submit articles
Grow up and recognize that you may have legitimate differences with someone which doesn't preclude either party from expressing their opinion
offer factual rebuttals to Katz' "alarmist or hypist" articles, rather than ad hominem attacks that cause you to look irresponsible and silly.
No. I'm referring to the hacker / security communities. Slashdot readership doesn't count as it's own community...
Surely, you know that is ridiculous. There are a couple thousand people who feel otherwise. I assume you only said that to incite others to comment. I guess I'm the first to bite.
They don't want to sign their death warrant just yet. It behooves them to foster the impression that Java's best environment is on a Sun box. If a kick ass JVM comes out for Java 2 on Linux, they are surely up shit's creek.
He's not at all insightful, and can't offer any kind of intelligence to this forum.
What if there are people reading this forum for the first time who've never heard of JP? Do you think it's a waste of their time to find out who this guy is and why he is so controversial? Or do you think he should just take your word and make up his mind the easy, lazy way?
he sensationalizes, goes trolling, frequently and intentionally misrepresents key issues, and has even made personal slams against people who question him.
Hmmm. Some would say that your comment does the same exact thing.
I say we flat out ignore him - he's of no value to the community
What community are you talking about? The slashdot community? There is something out there beyond slashdot. Whether you disagree with him or not, he has made a name for himself. If you have a beef with him, why don't you ask a question or tell him what your problem is. Ignoring someone because you abhor them accomplishes nothing.
I thought the award was for your contributions in 1999. If so, what has Tim done in 1999? I understand what you are saying, but I think people in the know are well aware of Tim's contributions. Maybe he should be up for a lifetime achievement thingie however.
In reality, ER's opinion is the only one that counts since he will be showing up at the meeting strapped with an AK-47 and a small arms cache. He has already displayed that he is one pickle short of a barrel by his many antics, including his appearance on the MS campus as Obi Wan Kenobi (or however the hell you spell it).
Bruce Perens will be too busy trying to promote his new website.
Salus will probably be too busy working on the free buffet.
Stallman, of course will be too busy doing hits of LSD.
Larry Wall will be boring everyone out of their mind with his drug-induced ramblings about onions and whatnot.
Your analogy comparing the US'electrical grid to the internet is flawed, and thus your conclusion that the US is highly susceptible to cyber-warfare is inconclusive.
True, the US' (and Canada, as they are joined together) electrical grid, as seen in the shutdown of the northeastern sector of 1965, can allow widespread failure when any point is overloaded. The internet was designed from the bottom up to circumvent this problem. You can blow up half the US but the internet will still work. We can thank Van Cerf for that.
No, it's not "nominally the same". You attempted to point to a US serviceman who had been tried/convicted for War Crimes, as defined by the Geneva Conventions. Someone presented factual evidence that showed you were incorrect. The serviceman was not convicted of War Crimes, nor was his trial held under the auspices of a War Tribunal, as laid out in the Geneva Conventions.
Invasion may not be so important, now that it is has been reported that the Soviet Union may have buried nuclear bombs and radio equipment in caches around the country during the 1960's. Belgium has reported finding radio caches on its soil recently.
Slashdot Mirror
This was funny as hell!
Damn...that was funny as hell!
See my response to your buddy.
You're arguing over semantics - there is no 'slashdot community', because slashdot is a website. There is no 'jennicam community', although it's a popular site. There is no 'cnn community', although that is a heavily-traffic'd site.
My, my. Isn't this, to use your colloquialism, the pot calling the kettle black? You start this whole thread rolling by telling me what a community is or isn't, disregarding that community has several meanings. And now I'm engaging in semantics? I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a universal understanding of the word community.
When I refer to slashdot as a community, I am using community in the context of neighborhood, a place to hang out, in the same vein that people refer to AOL as a community. A lot of people view slashdot as the place to be on the internet. When I wake up in the morning, rather than putting on tv, I pop into slashdot to see if there are any interesting articles, check on whether Cliff has posted my Ask Slashdot question (still waiting...) and to see if you and Kish are playing footsie (joke...relax). I'm sure there are others who view slashdot in the same manner.
You're right. If Rob's server blew up, slashdot probably wouldn't exist...temporarily. The problem with this analogy is that you assume that when I refer to slashdot that I am referring to what we see when we pull it up on our browser. Actually, what I'm referring to is is what slashdot embodies. It's something that a lot of people have desired for a long time; a place where we can express our views and hear others like us too; a place that doesn't patronize to us. A virtual community, if you will. Slashdot is really just the domain name for that spirit.
So, to pursue your analogy further, if Rob's servers blew up one day, despite the terrible angst we'd suffer, we would wait and hope for Rob to set up shop again and get to back to the business of providing an informing and entertaining forum for us. If for some reason Rob wasn't able to get it going again, I betcha someone, somewhere would revive it. You see, slashdot is not really Rob's baby anymore. It belongs to each of us. In the same way that the Amiga community or the Atari 2600 community is still out there kicking, the slashdot community would find a way too.
That's what I mean when I say community. I hope that explains things for you.
I won't be replying to any further posts on this topic - it's a waste of bandwidth and time. Goodbye.
I think it's time to put this thread to bed too, but I hope you at least read it so you know where I'm coming from.
You're just bitter from previous discussions with me. e.g.,
Hmmm. Until I revisited that link I had no idea that I had ever sparred with you before. You have a better memory than I do.
I'm not a hung up on the "fact" thing, as you claim. As a matter of fact, I am the first person to criticize someone who solely tries to prove a fact based on "statistics. You are correct; statistics can be bent. I don't think facts can be bent, however.
Statistic: 64% of consumers browse Internet with Internet Explorer
Who are these "consumers?
What is the size of the study population?
Do these people include ISP's like AOL who standardize on Internet Explorer?
Fact: A study was conducted to give a picture, admittedly non-conclusive, about browser choice among internet users.
I mention the fact issue because you (and others) criticize John Katz for what you consider "pulling stuff out of his ass"; in other words, you feel that he does not research his issues, rather he releases articles based on his "gut feeling", keying on topics that are certain to elicit comment from slashdot folks.
The best way to criticize someone's opinion, which is what Katz is really serving, is not to offer your own opinion. All you are doing in that case is offering up your own biased view of the world. You're better off looking for specific comments that offend you , and if the comments do not have a factual basis upon which to refute, offer commentary on why you feel offended.
Non-sensical rantings about "he sucks", or "he is ruining this place" don't garner you any points, at least not among people who like to see reasoned debate. Sure, you might appeal to a portion of the slashdot community, but for the most part, those people and their emotional rhetoric are tuned out.
Would you be so kind as to point me to the hacker/security community then? I would very much like to charter a bus there to see this wonderful civilization.
</sarcasm mode on>
Now for a touch of reality.
Here is a definition of community, as found on Merriam Webster's site
Instead of bragging about your high karma (face it, who cares), why don't you try opening your mind up?
If you take issue with the fact that he has a forum on slashdot, you have a couple of options:
Signal 11 trolled:
No. I'm referring to the hacker / security communities. Slashdot readership doesn't count as it's own community...
Surely, you know that is ridiculous. There are a couple thousand people who feel otherwise. I assume you only said that to incite others to comment. I guess I'm the first to bite.
They don't want to sign their death warrant just yet. It behooves them to foster the impression that Java's best environment is on a Sun box. If a kick ass JVM comes out for Java 2 on Linux, they are surely up shit's creek.
Attilla The Huh: Elephants...over mountains...why?
Hitler: Why not just go with a goatee?
Satan: How did you get Bill Gates' mom to mate with a jackal?
Sadaam Hussein: Don't you think berets are just a little too French, if you know what I mean?
Newt Gingrich: How does it feel to serve divorce papers to your wife while she's dying of cancer?
You know Bill Gates won't sit down to an interview while engaged in an anti-trust trial.
(first I just can't help but think.. mochaone responds to one of my comments and isn't flaming me? wow)
hahahah! I guess I do deserve that one. If you check, you'll see that I even admitted you were right. I must be slipping in my old age.
He's not at all insightful, and can't offer any kind of intelligence to this forum.
What if there are people reading this forum for the first time who've never heard of JP? Do you think it's a waste of their time to find out who this guy is and why he is so controversial? Or do you think he should just take your word and make up his mind the easy, lazy way?
he sensationalizes, goes trolling, frequently and intentionally misrepresents key issues, and has even made personal slams against people who question him.
Hmmm. Some would say that your comment does the same exact thing.
I say we flat out ignore him - he's of no value to the community
What community are you talking about? The slashdot community? There is something out there beyond slashdot. Whether you disagree with him or not, he has made a name for himself. If you have a beef with him, why don't you ask a question or tell him what your problem is. Ignoring someone because you abhor them accomplishes nothing.
The man is right. To wit, from the 1998 winner page:
we wanted to recognize long-term central contributions to the development of the world of free software.
I thought the award was for your contributions in 1999. If so, what has Tim done in 1999? I understand what you are saying, but I think people in the know are well aware of Tim's contributions. Maybe he should be up for a lifetime achievement thingie however.
Hey Bruce, I hope you realize I was joking! I personally think you're the best and I have you in my pool kicking ER's butt.
As far as I what I'm doing for free software, I'm, uh, not doing much. I did buy some books from FSF though! Does that count?
< plant tongue firmly in cheek >
/plant tongue firmly in cheek >
I'm sure the slashdot community will miss you
<
Why are you hated so damn much and do you care?
In reality, ER's opinion is the only one that counts since he will be showing up at the meeting strapped with an AK-47 and a small arms cache. He has already displayed that he is one pickle short of a barrel by his many antics, including his appearance on the MS campus as Obi Wan Kenobi (or however the hell you spell it).
Bruce Perens will be too busy trying to promote his new website.
Salus will probably be too busy working on the free buffet.
Stallman, of course will be too busy doing hits of LSD.
Larry Wall will be boring everyone out of their mind with his drug-induced ramblings about onions and whatnot.
Your analogy comparing the US'electrical grid to the internet is flawed, and thus your conclusion that the US is highly susceptible to cyber-warfare is inconclusive.
True, the US' (and Canada, as they are joined together) electrical grid, as seen in the shutdown of the northeastern sector of 1965, can allow widespread failure when any point is overloaded. The internet was designed from the bottom up to circumvent this problem. You can blow up half the US but the internet will still work. We can thank Van Cerf for that.
No, it's not "nominally the same". You attempted to point to a US serviceman who had been tried/convicted for War Crimes, as defined by the Geneva Conventions. Someone presented factual evidence that showed you were incorrect. The serviceman was not convicted of War Crimes, nor was his trial held under the auspices of a War Tribunal, as laid out in the Geneva Conventions.
This isn't horse shoes, buddy. You were wrong.
Invasion may not be so important, now that it is has been reported that the Soviet Union may have buried nuclear bombs and radio equipment in caches around the country during the 1960's. Belgium has reported finding radio caches on its soil recently.
I'll try and find link to the article.
Kudos to Jamie McCarthy. This article was well writen and researched. A touch above the usual fare served on slashdot.
Oops. My bad. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to find another reason to hate MS now.