Wasn't flamebait. Said I wasn't sure. I was happy to be corrected... was a matter for conversation, not fanboy flamewars... that aside
I had not been aware that there was much more than there had been for L3 equipment from Cisco. I started looking after so many people had otherwise to say. My bad; it does look as though they have a large quantity of equipment out these days...
As for Spanning Tree here.... it's off period. Ain't had a problem in nigh 4 years because of that either. Of course, _most_ of our end users would not know which end of a CAT 5 cable to plug into a hub if they had one... maybe in hospitals, information tech companies, etc, that is different. but we do not running ST anywhere, not on any of the layer 2 equipment, and we have not suffered for it.
maybe this is an unusual case; but I still rather believe that it can be done elsewhere.
I prefaced my message by saying that I'm not up to snuff on spanning tree. We don't use it. Period.
I have seen examples of spanning tree in classrooms, etc. and some persons say 'greatest thing in the world'
By far though, I see many many more steering clear of it. I also made my ignorance about Cisco layer 3 equipment clear;)
Was only based on talking around as I said. And we all know how much talking around gets you. =)
I suppose that I should read about (and should I be interested in actually implementing a new network I would have vendors bidding and coming in to show me the benefits of their networking equipment) etc.
I do have complaints beyond that from my VERY limited use of Cisco switches, but it is not relevant to the story at hand (I will share if you want to enlighten me in my perhaps ignorant beliefs; but not to start a flame war); I merely brought up Extreme because I do use the switces and I do like them.
The simple truth is that I'm not interested _at this time_ though. The chances of me getting my boss to let me get even one cisco switch in here to play with and really learn is slim.
That is not to say Cisco does not make a nice product. I do very much like their routers. They are king of the routing world for a reason. I have used Bay, Olicoms, and Cisco, probably one or two others... but nothing in any way compares to Cisco.
It was not my point to start a flame war about whose network gear is better. Apologies if that is how it came across.
I am not up to speed on spanning tree, but speaking with a coworker after reading this article it is my understanding that Cisco equipment runs a new instance of spanning tree each time a new VLAN is created. As you can imagine in such a large campus environment there can be many tens if not hundreds of VLANS. In a short time you turn your network into a spanning tree nightmare. I'd much rather use some nice Extreme Networks (or founrdy or whatever) Layer 3 switching equipment at the core and turn off spanning tree. Use tagged VLANS from the closets to the core and voila no need for spanning tree... Use cisco edge devices for WAN links. Building out a second rats nest out of the same equipment seems foolish.
I'm not even sure how much Layer 3 switching equipment Cisco has; not much at all from my talking around in the past. It may not be possible to turn around and re-engineer it with the existing equipment; but I think that I would much rather throw out the vendor and reengineer the entire thing correctly before putting in a second shabby network.
I speak from having assisted on something like this on a very small campus environment (1,500 nodes maybe) and we basically tore out a disgusting mess of a LAN and implemented a fully switched, beautifully layed out network with redundant links to all closets an 8 GB trunk between two buildings etc in the breadth of one weekend. Obviously there was tons of planning involved, cabling run in preparation and so on, but what a fantastic move it was.
Sure there were hiccups Monday morning, but everything was perfectly fine by the end of the week.
...and I hope they come for me. I will, as Tyler Durden put it "just let go." Beauracratic over-the-line BS. What is this, medievil London where unlawful carnal knowledge can get your head cut off? Knowing how to murder someone is not illegal, but knowing how to copy digital data is??
...and I hope they come for me. I will, as Tyler Durden put it "just let go." Beauracratic over-the-line BS. What is this, medievil London where unlawful carnal knowledge can get your head cut off? Knowing how to murder someone is not illegal, but knowing how to copy digital data is??
Actually many companies use products like Bisfax to convert faxes to.tif files attached to e-mails. These servers can send/receive faxes on a large scale. You'd be surprised how many small companies still want to do business with fax machines. You'd also be surprised how many spam faxes you can get when the schmoes find a DID range for something like a fax server as well.
The 'gentleman'(term used loosely) who set up my companies internet infrastructure left our mail server sitting as an open relay actively being used by spammers, dns servers allowing zone transfers to anyone, servers horribly unpatched, you name it.
What a mess I had in my hands taking over. Literally a trucker gone 'computer tech' (again used VERY loosely.)
Everyone who can click a mouse is a computer expert now. Everyone who can type ping a network engineer, everyone who can write a hello world program a developer, and everyone with a personal web page a web developer.
BS! BS! BS! I too have a personal web page, but I am not a web developer, I took a few C programs and compile source I download, but I am not a developer. I am a network engineer. And with 5 years experience at this I consider myself a major newb.
It takes a lot to become a pro. These fools that came in on a dot-com wave, declared they had taken a Cisco class and demanded an absurd salary are all getting what they deserve now. Unemployment, low income slack jobs, and a one way ticket back to where they came from.
Now, from the technical aspect I can think of at least a half-dozen ways to stop deep-linking if it is unwanted. From the web development end I can imagine there are just as many. Too bad if they can't figure it out. Their ignorance is the only crime.
Slashdot Mirror
Wasn't flamebait. Said I wasn't sure. I was happy to be corrected... was a matter for conversation, not fanboy flamewars... that aside
I had not been aware that there was much more than there had been for L3 equipment from Cisco. I started looking after so many people had otherwise to say. My bad; it does look as though they have a large quantity of equipment out these days...
As for Spanning Tree here.... it's off period. Ain't had a problem in nigh 4 years because of that either. Of course, _most_ of our end users would not know which end of a CAT 5 cable to plug into a hub if they had one... maybe in hospitals, information tech companies, etc, that is different. but we do not running ST anywhere, not on any of the layer 2 equipment, and we have not suffered for it.
maybe this is an unusual case; but I still rather believe that it can be done elsewhere.
I prefaced my message by saying that I'm not up to snuff on spanning tree. We don't use it. Period.
;)
I have seen examples of spanning tree in classrooms, etc. and some persons say 'greatest thing in the world'
By far though, I see many many more steering clear of it. I also made my ignorance about Cisco layer 3 equipment clear
Was only based on talking around as I said. And we all know how much talking around gets you. =)
I suppose that I should read about (and should I be interested in actually implementing a new network I would have vendors bidding and coming in to show me the benefits of their networking equipment) etc.
I do have complaints beyond that from my VERY limited use of Cisco switches, but it is not relevant to the story at hand (I will share if you want to enlighten me in my perhaps ignorant beliefs; but not to start a flame war); I merely brought up Extreme because I do use the switces and I do like them.
The simple truth is that I'm not interested _at this time_ though. The chances of me getting my boss to let me get even one cisco switch in here to play with and really learn is slim.
That is not to say Cisco does not make a nice product. I do very much like their routers. They are king of the routing world for a reason. I have used Bay, Olicoms, and Cisco, probably one or two others... but nothing in any way compares to Cisco.
It was not my point to start a flame war about whose network gear is better. Apologies if that is how it came across.
I am not up to speed on spanning tree, but speaking with a coworker after reading this article it is my understanding that Cisco equipment runs a new instance of spanning tree each time a new VLAN is created. As you can imagine in such a large campus environment there can be many tens if not hundreds of VLANS. In a short time you turn your network into a spanning tree nightmare. I'd much rather use some nice Extreme Networks (or founrdy or whatever) Layer 3 switching equipment at the core and turn off spanning tree. Use tagged VLANS from the closets to the core and voila no need for spanning tree... Use cisco edge devices for WAN links. Building out a second rats nest out of the same equipment seems foolish.
I'm not even sure how much Layer 3 switching equipment Cisco has; not much at all from my talking around in the past. It may not be possible to turn around and re-engineer it with the existing equipment; but I think that I would much rather throw out the vendor and reengineer the entire thing correctly before putting in a second shabby network.
I speak from having assisted on something like this on a very small campus environment (1,500 nodes maybe) and we basically tore out a disgusting mess of a LAN and implemented a fully switched, beautifully layed out network with redundant links to all closets an 8 GB trunk between two buildings etc in the breadth of one weekend. Obviously there was tons of planning involved, cabling run in preparation and so on, but what a fantastic move it was.
Sure there were hiccups Monday morning, but everything was perfectly fine by the end of the week.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
...and I hope they come for me. I will, as Tyler Durden put it "just let go." Beauracratic over-the-line BS. What is this, medievil London where unlawful carnal knowledge can get your head cut off? Knowing how to murder someone is not illegal, but knowing how to copy digital data is??
...and I hope they come for me. I will, as Tyler Durden put it "just let go." Beauracratic over-the-line BS. What is this, medievil London where unlawful carnal knowledge can get your head cut off? Knowing how to murder someone is not illegal, but knowing how to copy digital data is??
Actually many companies use products like Bisfax to convert faxes to .tif files attached to e-mails. These servers can send/receive faxes on a large scale. You'd be surprised how many small companies still want to do business with fax machines. You'd also be surprised how many spam faxes you can get when the schmoes find a DID range for something like a fax server as well.
Right on.
The 'gentleman'(term used loosely) who set up my companies internet infrastructure left our mail server sitting as an open relay actively being used by spammers, dns servers allowing zone transfers to anyone, servers horribly unpatched, you name it.
What a mess I had in my hands taking over. Literally a trucker gone 'computer tech' (again used VERY loosely.)
Everyone who can click a mouse is a computer expert now. Everyone who can type ping a network engineer, everyone who can write a hello world program a developer, and everyone with a personal web page a web developer.
BS! BS! BS! I too have a personal web page, but I am not a web developer, I took a few C programs and compile source I download, but I am not a developer. I am a network engineer. And with 5 years experience at this I consider myself a major newb.
It takes a lot to become a pro. These fools that came in on a dot-com wave, declared they had taken a Cisco class and demanded an absurd salary are all getting what they deserve now. Unemployment, low income slack jobs, and a one way ticket back to where they came from.
Now, from the technical aspect I can think of at least a half-dozen ways to stop deep-linking if it is unwanted. From the web development end I can imagine there are just as many. Too bad if they can't figure it out. Their ignorance is the only crime.