This reminds me of an interesting signature I saw here once.
Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics...even if you win, you are still retarded.
You shouldn't take the description of "foolish" to hard, I didn't call you an "idiot", "moron" or "fuckwit". I merely think you've bought in to this brand loyalty thing a little too far.
I still believe you are foolish to let HP make the supplier choices for you. My observation (and thus my opinion) is that HP is buying CD/DVD burners from the lowest cost supplier in order to get the highest margin. The reason they stopped selling/distributing/giving-away CD Burners is because the margin evaporated to the Cendyne/HiVal/IoMagic's. The German burner problems may have had an effect, but I think thats a purely European thing. The reason they had the margin before was that people like you (didn't say you) wouldn't buy drives from Samsung or Mitsumi because they were cheap crap, but eagerly pay HP twice as much for the same thing. If you have to save up money for things it behooves you, and gives you the time, to do some research. The internet makes this much easier because so many of the tech sites and forums directly discuss who makes the underlying mechanisums. Paying HP a $200-300 premium for a DVD burner is just not smart for anyone other than HP, the're hosing you, open your eyes.
HP makes good laser printers, but there inkjets aren't that good. Sure they've made a few turkeys, but usually when the're cutting corners to get the sub $300 products out the door.
I can't say I've been impressed either, but their chipsets are in a lot of drives (CD-R/RW). Used their MP6200 and RW8040 drive. Always liked TEAC drives.
The LiteOn 40X performs very well, the TEAC 40X is also very solid. Plextor always seemed to cost too much, some people dig them, but I guess I don't care if it copys this or that protection scheme. I'll have to try the FW upgrade on the LiteOn to see how the 48X works, as I recall the LiteOn uses the MediaTek chipset.
A DVD burner or CD burner? The HP 100/200i drives are Ricoh's. Mitsumi made at least some of HP's CD burners, I'm not sure who else, but I don't think HP made much of any of them in the last several years.
The Verbatim 40X (Mitshibishi Chemical Corp. MMC) is the best I've seen so far, I'd recommend the media on the spindle. Verbatim (sub of MMC) is one of the few companies that makes it's own media, so you know what you've bought without loading it into a drive to check the ATIP codes.
Given a month or so, the media in retail will be a higher grade, a hopefully have different ATIP codes so the drives can tell the difference. Might have to upgrade the firmware, because a lot of these drives have tables in them with supported speeds/strategies.
I don't think it "slowly declines". From the point it switches to 40X the RPM should increase to the outer edge. The data is leaving the PC into the drive's buffer at 40X rates for the entire 40X zone.
Most of the time during the transitions it's actually calibrating the laser hence the observable speed dips. The drives could transition a lot more seamlessly if not for the calibration. I've seen some pretty big delays when the drive is trying to go to 40X but finally decides the media just won't cut it.
The improvement in time from a 32X to a 40X is often negliable, any you'll only see it if you fill the disc. Some 32X drive can match 40X's, while others have 3, 4 or 5 speed zones.
The drive manufactures don't like the current CMC (97:26:66, 79:59:74) . The graphs I've seen are quite horrible. CMC does have some newer media with a different ATIP code (97:26:66, 79:59:73) that is orders of magnitude better but I haven't seen any of it in retail. I'll look for the TDK media, the last batch of 40X TDK I bought was made by Ritek.
Your previous post suggests your seeing 3:30 at 40X and 4:00 at 32X. I'm not sure who makes the drive mech your using, but I've got 32X drives that can do 700MB (every sector on the disc) at 3:30 or better. 40X should be closer to 3:03 or about 27X+ in linear terms. Are you sure that it's going at 40X, some drive will let you set 40X as a write speed but never get there, or drop back. Buffer underrun protection doesn't help fix bad media, if the drive is struggling at the outer edge it's because the media is marginal.
Most drives are pretty good at not making coasters, even with dodgy media, they just slow down. So if you seen one burn take 3:03 and another at 3:30 it's because it had to slow down to adapt to the media.
The media you see in the store today with arbitary stickers saying it's 40X isn't the same as the media I expect to see in a month or two. I'm not saying that CMC can't make good media, just that the stuff you can buy today marked at 40X was the same stuff that was marked 32X a week before.
Why do you even care? HP is just badging drives made by someone else.
Their DVD burners are make by Ricoh. Practically all the +R/+RW writers out there are made by Ricoh, and sold by Aopen, Philips, Sony, Memorex, Verbatim etc.
If you pay a premium for this OEM drive just because it has a certain name on it you are foolish.
On the -R/-RW side the drives are practically all made by Pioneer.
Most of the media currently on the shelves is pretty much worthless. "Certified" adds no credibility. Burn it on your own drive and validate it wrote the data without leaving unreadable portions. Once you have media that works for you buy enough, because next time you go to the store it'll be something else.
Most of the drives I've evaluated have serious problems writing the current media from CMC Magnetics (check ATIP disc info in your burner software). This media is being sold by Imation/Memorex and a bunch of others, all there media from 16X to 40X identifies itself with the same code. Most drive won't even try 40X on this media, locking down to 24X or 32X, those that do try 40X can't always sustain it, especially on the outer edge.
Also seen problems with Ritek 40X sold by TDK.
Given that CMC and Ritek probably represent 95%+ of the market things aren't too good.
Some higher grade media should arrive shortly (I hope).
The Verbatim 40X (Mitshibishi Chemical Corp. MMC) is the best I've seen so far, I'd recommend the media on the spindle. Verbatim is one of the few companies that makes it's own media, so you know what you've bought without loading it into a drive to check the ATIP codes.
Most of the media on the market is total shit. CMC sell's a lot under the Imation/Memorex/BrandX names even selling it as "40X". Most drives can't do these at 40X, it's going to take a while for quality 40/48X media to arrive. Many vendor are using the same ATIP idendifier codes over 4 to 6 generations of media, so its real hard to determine what you have bought. I can't begin to imagine the problems people are having at 48X, I'd recommend you test what you've written whenever using a new drive/media combination.
700MB at 40X is about 3:03 minutes, the TEAC is no speed demon writing the TOC often meaning it can get beaten by 32X drives (3:30 - 3:45). The NEC 40x (9100A) is a rocket, on certain media it can do 700MB in 2:45.
The Ricoh 5125 drive which is sold by Sony (DRU120), Philips (228), HP (200i), Memorex etc. does 2.4X and completes DVD+R and +RW 4.7GB (Really 4.38GB isn't it!) in 25 minutes.
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This reminds me of an interesting signature I saw here once.
Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics...even if you win, you are still retarded.
You shouldn't take the description of "foolish" to hard, I didn't call you an "idiot", "moron" or "fuckwit". I merely think you've bought in to this brand loyalty thing a little too far.
I still believe you are foolish to let HP make the supplier choices for you. My observation (and thus my opinion) is that HP is buying CD/DVD burners from the lowest cost supplier in order to get the highest margin. The reason they stopped selling/distributing/giving-away CD Burners is because the margin evaporated to the Cendyne/HiVal/IoMagic's. The German burner problems may have had an effect, but I think thats a purely European thing. The reason they had the margin before was that people like you (didn't say you) wouldn't buy drives from Samsung or Mitsumi because they were cheap crap, but eagerly pay HP twice as much for the same thing. If you have to save up money for things it behooves you, and gives you the time, to do some research. The internet makes this much easier because so many of the tech sites and forums directly discuss who makes the underlying mechanisums. Paying HP a $200-300 premium for a DVD burner is just not smart for anyone other than HP, the're hosing you, open your eyes.
HP makes good laser printers, but there inkjets aren't that good. Sure they've made a few turkeys, but usually when the're cutting corners to get the sub $300 products out the door.
The LiteOn 40X performs very well, the TEAC 40X is also very solid. Plextor always seemed to cost too much, some people dig them, but I guess I don't care if it copys this or that protection scheme. I'll have to try the FW upgrade on the LiteOn to see how the 48X works, as I recall the LiteOn uses the MediaTek chipset.
A DVD burner or CD burner? The HP 100/200i drives are Ricoh's. Mitsumi made at least some of HP's CD burners, I'm not sure who else, but I don't think HP made much of any of them in the last several years.
Given a month or so, the media in retail will be a higher grade, a hopefully have different ATIP codes so the drives can tell the difference. Might have to upgrade the firmware, because a lot of these drives have tables in them with supported speeds/strategies.
Most of the time during the transitions it's actually calibrating the laser hence the observable speed dips. The drives could transition a lot more seamlessly if not for the calibration. I've seen some pretty big delays when the drive is trying to go to 40X but finally decides the media just won't cut it.
The improvement in time from a 32X to a 40X is often negliable, any you'll only see it if you fill the disc. Some 32X drive can match 40X's, while others have 3, 4 or 5 speed zones.
Your mileage may vary...
The drive manufactures don't like the current CMC (97:26:66, 79:59:74) . The graphs I've seen are quite horrible. CMC does have some newer media with a different ATIP code (97:26:66, 79:59:73) that is orders of magnitude better but I haven't seen any of it in retail. I'll look for the TDK media, the last batch of 40X TDK I bought was made by Ritek.
Your previous post suggests your seeing 3:30 at 40X and 4:00 at 32X. I'm not sure who makes the drive mech your using, but I've got 32X drives that can do 700MB (every sector on the disc) at 3:30 or better. 40X should be closer to 3:03 or about 27X+ in linear terms. Are you sure that it's going at 40X, some drive will let you set 40X as a write speed but never get there, or drop back. Buffer underrun protection doesn't help fix bad media, if the drive is struggling at the outer edge it's because the media is marginal.
Most drives are pretty good at not making coasters, even with dodgy media, they just slow down. So if you seen one burn take 3:03 and another at 3:30 it's because it had to slow down to adapt to the media.
The media you see in the store today with arbitary stickers saying it's 40X isn't the same as the media I expect to see in a month or two. I'm not saying that CMC can't make good media, just that the stuff you can buy today marked at 40X was the same stuff that was marked 32X a week before.
Their DVD burners are make by Ricoh. Practically all the +R/+RW writers out there are made by Ricoh, and sold by Aopen, Philips, Sony, Memorex, Verbatim etc.
If you pay a premium for this OEM drive just because it has a certain name on it you are foolish.
On the -R/-RW side the drives are practically all made by Pioneer.
Most of the drives I've evaluated have serious problems writing the current media from CMC Magnetics (check ATIP disc info in your burner software). This media is being sold by Imation/Memorex and a bunch of others, all there media from 16X to 40X identifies itself with the same code. Most drive won't even try 40X on this media, locking down to 24X or 32X, those that do try 40X can't always sustain it, especially on the outer edge.
Also seen problems with Ritek 40X sold by TDK.
Given that CMC and Ritek probably represent 95%+ of the market things aren't too good.
Some higher grade media should arrive shortly (I hope).
The Verbatim 40X (Mitshibishi Chemical Corp. MMC) is the best I've seen so far, I'd recommend the media on the spindle. Verbatim is one of the few companies that makes it's own media, so you know what you've bought without loading it into a drive to check the ATIP codes.
Most of the media on the market is total shit. CMC sell's a lot under the Imation/Memorex/BrandX names even selling it as "40X". Most drives can't do these at 40X, it's going to take a while for quality 40/48X media to arrive. Many vendor are using the same ATIP idendifier codes over 4 to 6 generations of media, so its real hard to determine what you have bought. I can't begin to imagine the problems people are having at 48X, I'd recommend you test what you've written whenever using a new drive/media combination.
700MB at 40X is about 3:03 minutes, the TEAC is no speed demon writing the TOC often meaning it can get beaten by 32X drives (3:30 - 3:45). The NEC 40x (9100A) is a rocket, on certain media it can do 700MB in 2:45.
The Ricoh 5125 drive which is sold by Sony (DRU120), Philips (228), HP (200i), Memorex etc. does 2.4X and completes DVD+R and +RW 4.7GB (Really 4.38GB isn't it!) in 25 minutes.