I do. Quite a lot actually. I used to download it from p2p networks - started back in the early days of p2p sharing at college over 10 years ago now, when no one really knew much about it, so you could download mp3s at lightning speed on the university networks in the engineering computer labs on software like WinMX and so on. No one was monitoring that traffic, and everyone was doing it.
When the iTunes music store came out I stopped downloading music, and I mean *completely stopped*, from p2p networks. Part of it was that the heyday was over - now there were floods of crappy encodes, and poisoned tracks and so on, so it was a bit of a hassle. The other part was that I was genuinely honest when I said "make it easy, cheap and convenient and I will buy downloadable music" - and the iTunes music store did that. When the whole store went DRM free (on the music side, at least), I even purchased copies of many of the albums I had downloaded all those years ago. I continue to buy music on the iTunes store since I feel that it is worth the price that it's sold for. I have also occasionally used other online download stores for some material that is not available on iTunes, like many of the live Counting Crows performances, for example.
Apple got it right when they said "make it available cheaply and conveniently and people will buy it" when everyone (as in, the music industry) was telling them "but why would people buy it if they can get it for free on p2p networks". It's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but they did get the record industry to play ball, and the rest is history.
The store isn't a huge profit generator for Apple (it's profitable, but it's barely a scratch compared to the profitability of the iPods and iPhones that the store really exists for), but it works.
I know for certain I'm not the only person who decided it was well worth it - they are selling songs by the barrel.
So, your [sic] not a regular person? Your [sic] what, part of a big company that does hundred of thousands of dollars in business with apple, so if you dropped your mouse, they are there picking it up for you?
My closing sentence was a circular connection back to my initial paragraphs about myself; I realise on second reading I could have dropped one of the "alsos" from either that line or the penultimate paragraph to make it more clear, although in my first story the Applecare was for a business, and in the second one it was for a home user.
The point was to challenge the anonymous OP's assertion that Apple's customer support is merely "Macs for dummies".
As I say, simply the fact that a company fixed a fault with your product. I'm not saying you're particularly out of the ordinary in being happy with this service- I'm saying this lowers the bar because they've simply done the bare minimum required of them when not only should they be resolving an issue, but should be compensating you for having to suffer the inconvenience of facing an issue you shouldn't have had to in the first place.
There's another name for that: being an entitled ass. Setting out with the mindset that the world owes you something for... being you, leads to that sort of attitude.
Why should Apple "compensate you for your inconvenience"? They fixed the product, as they should do but the world isn;t always perfect and smooth. Sometimes things break, sometimes things don;t go 100% to plan. This doesn't mean the world owes you if unexpected things happen.
Apple (and microsoft, in the case of broken 360s, replaced with newer ones) have done exactly what they are meant to when faced with a CS issue. To have it resolved effectively and then saying "right, now what else are you going to do to make me happy?" is going beyond CS and into the realm of "the customer is always right, even when they're wrong".
It reminds me of Tuesday maintenance on the WoW servers, with frothing demands for compensation and free game time if the servers don;t come back up at precisely the time in the original estimate, or even that they go down *at all* for maintenance.
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Re: iPhone 4 antenna - note that I am not arguing the lack of a design issue. Clearly an external metal antenna that is easy to detune is a flaw in the antenna design. My point is that it affected a very small number of people in very specific circumstances (and in areas where the older iPhone that the 4 replaced couldn't even receive a signal in perfect conditions). Apple addressed the media hype engine that is wasn't a phenomenon unique to the iPhone, and then fixed it by offering free bumpers which eliminate the problem. The other solution offered was to return the phone for a full refund and no penalty for early contract termination, due to phone fault. For the vast majority of people though, there was no issue, and they got a free case out of it.
I buy lots of things from lots of vendors, but I don;t have an entitled attitude. I've had a number of repairs and warranty situations and in general they have been very positive - it's not unique to Apple. I expect that things be put right, but I'm also not going to chase them down for some sense that I "deserve" something because I was the victim of circumstance.
So, in "karma burning" territory, I have had positive CS from Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Maxtor, Citroen, Virgin, United Airlines and several others.
I had negative CS from Sky, AoL and Freeserve.
I consider the CS received from the first batch to be excellent, and I didn't feel like they should be "going out of their way to make me feel special". They fixed my issues and did it graciously and effortlessly on my part. The second set though... not so good.
On the GigE card front, I am aware they needed to fix the issue - my post was a reply to the OP who was challenging someone to provide any positive Apple CS response - I simply listed the ones I could think of. They sent me the GigE card, but then they also replaced the logic board at a time that was convenient to me - the Gig card was simply to keep me up and running until we were past a heavy edit deadline. They could have been inflexible and said "sure we can fix it under warranty, but you have to send it in or take it to an authorised repair shop". They chose an option that worked well for me, that they didn't have to take. Given that they should be providing good CS, it's nice to see that they do.
I wasn't talking about the magsafe end of the connector, I was referencing a situation with someone I know who complained that he had to "berate" Apple to get them to replace the wall-socket end of his power supply because his normal method of removal was to pull it out of the wall via the cord and it eventually frayed and stopped working.
As far as magsafe goes (and the previous generation of the connector with the pin and ring), there was clearly a design flaw in a part that sees such frequent connection and disconnection and cable movement - the cord was too flimsy at the point where the cable boot meets the cable itself, so it could kink and gradually cause it to get damaged and short out. Apple has covered this with an out-of-warranty free replacement, which is clearly the least they need to do.
Where do you get the impression that I "demand a low bar" from customer service? Talking about my positive experiences at the times I've needed it is far from the conclusive proof necessary to draw that conclusion. You try to downplay Apple's actions in each of my stories, pushing the bar higher, or stating that what they did was standard procedure and thus not exceptional, but I have to wonder - what else are they meant to do? The laptop warranty replacement outside of the time was painless. Didn;t need to argue with them, didn;t need to try to convince them, didn't need multiple calls; they simply arranged to replace it and it was seamless and painless, leaving my brother very happy. Other than throwing themselves on their sword, what else do you think they should do? Making the process smooth and genial, as all customer service should be, as well as giving a satisfactory outcome is the whole goal I thought?
And now you jump into the antenna issue again. The "design flaw" that causes the phone to lose signal if you detune the antenna and are standing in a signal area that the previous iPhone would never have been able to get reception in the first place. Ok, so the external antenna is more susceptible to detuning than other phones (but it's not unique to the iPhone 4, or even the iPhone in general, just more extreme due to external antenna), and you claim they should have taken every single iPhone back and replaced it.... with what? The iPhone 4 design hasn;t changed at all, so what should they send out in return? Another "broken" iPhone 4? What about the millions of people who aren't having any reception issues? They investigated and determined that the bumpers cured the problem (well, they reduced the detuning - you can't eliminate it) and offered free bumpers to all iPhone 4 users to fix the issue for those who were having issues. From the number of complaints about it, the bumpers were clearly adequate to solve the problem. For the millions of others who didn;t see an issue, they got a free case out of it. The antenna is better than the iPhone 3G's one, and picks up signal in much lower reception areas, but it does have a weakness when the signal is that low. I suspect the iPhone 5 will address that. I hardly think they're "lowering the bar" of customer service by giving out free cases that cure the problem, as opposed to totally redesigning, manufacturing and shipping out new phones - how long do you think that would take, especially for these customers who are apparently seriously struggling with the phone and need it fixed zomg right nao! Especially when it can be fixed in 5 minutes with a case.
I think you're just looking for excuses to trash them.
No, I don;t think it's sensationalism just because it's anti-Apple - more because of the way the article is portrayed. I agree that this memo paints Apple poorly (but then, it is an internal memo and part of an ongoing issue, so we ultimately don;t know what Apple's policy will be, we can only go by this email), but the claim is the nicely cherry picked "don;t remove the malware" headline.
It would be more accurate to lead with "Apple internal memo urges customers to deal with their own problems" or something - the memo does also go into some detail on educating customers about malware and so on.
This is not just an Apple thing - the way MS gets treated in sensationalist journalism is equally bad, and it lowers the standard of the site overall to be running with stuff like thins, since it polarises the user base and turns into an echo chamber, so you end up with laughably false statements being modded up +5, and calm and considered discourse that runs counter to the prevailing trends gets modded troll or offtopic.
I'm not aiming to give Apple a free pass - if this is their ultimate policy on malware then it's stupid, but I expect a higher standard of journalism when covering stories - I expect I'm wishing for a train that will never come on that front though.
Not at all, but look at the headline, and compare it to the actual content. While he does indicate in the article itself that Apple's stance on this is "ongoing investigation", he jumps right to the punchline and cherry picks some nice juicy bits out.
If he "likes windows and writes about it" then he sure does like his negative Apple stories too. Funny that - pro MS, anti-Apple... Now, I'm not accusing him of being a shill - I think the word is thrown around far too frequently and cynically around here (and note, I did not call him so in my OP), but there's not much positive coming from him on OS X, and plenty negative. One might suggest if he's that unhappy with OS X that he simply stop using it, or reporting on it, but those ad impressions are all important for the people who pay him I guess.
I've got no problem with positive MS writers, goodness I even know people who work for the small, Redmond-based software startup, but there's lately been an undertow of "sensationalise anything negative about Apple" in the tech press of late, this being one of those occasions (of course, alongside the usual tiresome Apple gadget hype, but when is that new?).
What I mean, and I think you know, is the constant stream that Apple users are "sheep" or "worship at the altar of jobs" or that "OS X is a toy OS" or "Apple users have been duped into using Apple products because there are absolutely no redeeming features or other thought processes, it's all marketing". You know, the usual stuff, all very common on slashdot.
Surprisingly there's very little critique of users who use other OSes, certainly not to this extent.
It reaches a point that you need to fill your post with disclaimers and very specific language, lest someone harp on you for some perceived misstep - for example, any time Apple's contributions to Webkit are mentioned you have to point out that yes, I know it's GPL and Apple *have* to release changes, and that *yes* I know it was an open source project beforehand that was adopted by them and that not everything was magically created by them. You get the idea. This is what I mean in defending my choice of OS - you simply cannot say "I use OS X and am happy with it, because it fit my needs better than the alternatives" without someone coming in and *telling* you (often with quite colourful language) that you're wrong.
Don;t even need to do that - just pop open the terminal and kill the process then trash the app, or use Activity Monitor to kill it. Don;t even need to reboot. Reset Safari to kill any porn links or malware bookmarks it added and job done.
You are correct, the OS X software firewall is off by default, and it should be on. However, it is mitigated somewhat because all the remote services (file sharing, ftp, ssh, remote login etc) are all off by default. This doesn't excuse the lack of default on, however.
Welcome to our world. I agree that the OP is spreading Windows FUD like it's going out of style, but I guess you just got a taste for what it;s like to be a Mac/iOS user for a few minutes on slashdot. You just have to roll with it - some people just get set in a "xxx sucks/is evil!" mindset and you can't really argue with it.
FTR, I am ambivalent about other people's operating system choice: use what works for you. I do find though, that I have to defend my own choice of OS far more often than I ever give a negative opinion of any other OS out there, especially on slashdot. It does get wearisome.
They gave me a free GigE card (at their suggestion) when I had problems with the built in ethernet on the logic board on a Powermac G5 and didn't have the time to take it in for repair because it was an edit machine.
They replaced my brother's iBook, 3 days out of warranty, because it was close to the expiry date and it was unfortunate.
They shipped a fresh set of Universal Binary Final Cut Studio disks to me for postage cost when the Intel switch came about, so we wouldn't have to buy the newer version of the suite to be able to run it natively.
Oh I'm sure I have a few more.
They also do "Macs form [sic] dummies" for those who yank their power cord from the wall socket by the cable and wonder why it frays and catches fire, or who throw their laptop in a bag with no case and wonder why the surface gets all scratched and so on.
They also deal with regular people who have hardware and software problems.
Enough said, although the internal memo from Apple smacks of "cover our ass" legal hot footing - they pretty much say "go look this up on the internet", which is not a great response, although this isn't actually a public response. No doubt there will be something forthcoming soon.
AppleCare techs *have* responded to people about how to remove it, although I guess that's not policy now, although given that it's still "an issue in progress" I expect these are temporary policies while they hammer something out - like a malware tool, or some specific legal thing. No doubt it will be trotted out every time a security issue comes up, along with the trolls saying things like "it takes years for apple to respond to any security vulnerability" (+5 insightful). mmm. Tasty truthiness!
No, there was nothing worthwhile to reply to - the GP post is just so laughably, wildly inaccurate that it might as well be one of Glenn Beck's Blackboard talking points.
I think "cool story bro" succinctly gives the level of reply suitable for that fact-free rant that somehow got +5.
Yes, it is - because this trojan (not a virus, this is a simple trojan) is very, very unsophisticated - it installs itself as a regular application into your Applications folder. Step 5 is just to delete things like the installer package which will probably be in downloads, or some other user-space location (and which cannot run on its own) to ensure no one runs it again accidentally.
I don;t think you realise just how basic this trojan really is - it's simply not like the insidious malware you can sometimes get on PCs that hides, modifies system files, prevents you opening malware removal tools etc. That's not to say we won;t see that in the future on OS X, but this malware is almost the same as switching on the universal access reversed high contrast colour scheme and saying "you have malware! pay us $50 to remove it and make your screen go normal!"
Right, so it's even more like OS X than Android is like Linux, thus not negating my point at all, which was that if Linux popularity can be boosted by counting smartphones and tablets like the GP claimed, then OS X can have the same thing applied due to iOS smartphones and tablets.
Yes, I did RTFA, I have also personally experienced the fake website trying to trick me into downloading that trojan.
That's the key word there - trojan - you'll note that I was asking about viruses in the wild, not trojans (of which I can think of a few for OS X, this MacProtector, also called Mac Defender sometimes, being one of them).
It is *supremely easy* to uninstall.
1. Open activity monitor/terminal/process management of choice and kill/force quit the process. 2. Drag trojan app to trash (it's in the Applications folder) 3. Empty Trash. 4. Open user accounts pane in system prefs to check nothing was added to login items. If anything there, delete it. 5. Do a search of your HD to make sure all mentions of MacProtector are gone. 6. Profit.
It's easy. It's just an app with no quit button - it doesn;t do anything sophisticated to prevent you from killing it with the terminal or by force quit, or stop you from opening those apps. It is also in plain sight and easy to delete.
The reason people like this have been going to the trouble is that some people have been fooled into buying an app that "removes" the malware. They have been running this scam on Windows for some time - this is just the first time we've seen this particular trojan on OS X.
And the Apple forums have about 200 reports... out of a user base of multiple millions. It's all relative - this is like Sarah Palin saying that the population of of an endangered species had doubled, so why the concern about oil drilling, when neglecting to mention that doubling a small number is still a small number.
I'm now downplaying the severity of security issues, as they are clearly important, but "malware explosion" this is not.
It really won't - I have seen it in action on Safari and it's really nothing an antivirus/antimalware can stop since it's no different to any other interactive website, just the content is malicious rather than desired. It would only be at the point where the user downloaded and ran the installer, which the website has to convince you to do, that an AV/malware program could really step in. Up to that point it's purely social engineering.
The only "smug and self important" posts I see in this thread are from Apple haters, who in turn are posting mocking posts about how people who use Macs claim "they're immune" and "made perfect!" and "can't possibly go wrong!" when Mac users really don;t claim that - it is hyperbole that is pushed on us bu Mac haters and then used against us as if we were the ones who stated it in the first place.
I believe it stems from extending the ad campaign "it just works" to it's ultimate, literal conclusion that makes Apple Haters think that Apple users thus believe that nothing can ever go wrong, or that there are literally zero imperfections or hiccups, which I can assure you having been around the Mac community for many, many years is not the case in the slightest. Even spending 5 minutes in a room with 100 Mac users you'll find 100 "this annoys me" comments.
I think it should really be "it just works.... most of the time, and with minimal hassle, better than my previous computer".
It's a trojan that you need to download, unpack and then manually install, giving your admin password along the way.
Other than taking away the user's ability to install software (hey, isn;t everyone yelling about how evil Apple is for going for a walled harden approach on iOS?), I fail to see what they can do here, other than educating users on the dangers of installing untrusted software.
I am all for railing hard on security - if there are security issues they need to be dealt with (like the change in behaviour of Safari if 'open safe files' is checked - I do not believe any file from the internet can be classified as 'safe'), but this is such a very big storm in a socially engineered teacup.
Another user posted a screenshot of what you see if you click on a link that takes you to the malicious server (I got sent to one via clicking an image in Google Image Search, for example): http://imagebin.org/153902 It clearly uses your UA string to detect what OS you have and displays an appropriate con. The one I was shown actually animated, with a progress bar moving along as it "found" the malware you can see in the image and then "completed" to show that dialog box.
The security culture is going to have to change, but since when is that new? Social engineering is an enormous hurdle to computer security.
So, let me be clear - there is no "security update to combat that problem" that Apple will "eventually" release. Did you even read anything about it at all before posting? Oh wait, this is/. - I'm amazed you even read the summary.
So in that case, we can count the tablets and phones that iOS runs on towards the OS X total, right?
The way that Linux is related to Android is almost *exactly* comparable to the way OS X relates to iOS. If you count one that way, then the other has to count too.
Slashdot Mirror
I do. Quite a lot actually. I used to download it from p2p networks - started back in the early days of p2p sharing at college over 10 years ago now, when no one really knew much about it, so you could download mp3s at lightning speed on the university networks in the engineering computer labs on software like WinMX and so on. No one was monitoring that traffic, and everyone was doing it.
When the iTunes music store came out I stopped downloading music, and I mean *completely stopped*, from p2p networks. Part of it was that the heyday was over - now there were floods of crappy encodes, and poisoned tracks and so on, so it was a bit of a hassle. The other part was that I was genuinely honest when I said "make it easy, cheap and convenient and I will buy downloadable music" - and the iTunes music store did that. When the whole store went DRM free (on the music side, at least), I even purchased copies of many of the albums I had downloaded all those years ago. I continue to buy music on the iTunes store since I feel that it is worth the price that it's sold for. I have also occasionally used other online download stores for some material that is not available on iTunes, like many of the live Counting Crows performances, for example.
Apple got it right when they said "make it available cheaply and conveniently and people will buy it" when everyone (as in, the music industry) was telling them "but why would people buy it if they can get it for free on p2p networks". It's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but they did get the record industry to play ball, and the rest is history.
The store isn't a huge profit generator for Apple (it's profitable, but it's barely a scratch compared to the profitability of the iPods and iPhones that the store really exists for), but it works.
I know for certain I'm not the only person who decided it was well worth it - they are selling songs by the barrel.
So, your [sic] not a regular person? Your [sic] what, part of a big company that does hundred of thousands of dollars in business with apple, so if you dropped your mouse, they are there picking it up for you?
My closing sentence was a circular connection back to my initial paragraphs about myself; I realise on second reading I could have dropped one of the "alsos" from either that line or the penultimate paragraph to make it more clear, although in my first story the Applecare was for a business, and in the second one it was for a home user.
The point was to challenge the anonymous OP's assertion that Apple's customer support is merely "Macs for dummies".
Also, might I suggest this oatmeal comic: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling
It might help your future posts on message boards involving text.
I was with you all the way up to vi vs emacs. Now you are my sworn enemy! I will not sit at the same table as you.
As I say, simply the fact that a company fixed a fault with your product. I'm not saying you're particularly out of the ordinary in being happy with this service- I'm saying this lowers the bar because they've simply done the bare minimum required of them when not only should they be resolving an issue, but should be compensating you for having to suffer the inconvenience of facing an issue you shouldn't have had to in the first place.
There's another name for that: being an entitled ass. Setting out with the mindset that the world owes you something for... being you, leads to that sort of attitude.
Why should Apple "compensate you for your inconvenience"? They fixed the product, as they should do but the world isn;t always perfect and smooth. Sometimes things break, sometimes things don;t go 100% to plan. This doesn't mean the world owes you if unexpected things happen.
Apple (and microsoft, in the case of broken 360s, replaced with newer ones) have done exactly what they are meant to when faced with a CS issue. To have it resolved effectively and then saying "right, now what else are you going to do to make me happy?" is going beyond CS and into the realm of "the customer is always right, even when they're wrong".
It reminds me of Tuesday maintenance on the WoW servers, with frothing demands for compensation and free game time if the servers don;t come back up at precisely the time in the original estimate, or even that they go down *at all* for maintenance.
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Re: iPhone 4 antenna - note that I am not arguing the lack of a design issue. Clearly an external metal antenna that is easy to detune is a flaw in the antenna design. My point is that it affected a very small number of people in very specific circumstances (and in areas where the older iPhone that the 4 replaced couldn't even receive a signal in perfect conditions). Apple addressed the media hype engine that is wasn't a phenomenon unique to the iPhone, and then fixed it by offering free bumpers which eliminate the problem. The other solution offered was to return the phone for a full refund and no penalty for early contract termination, due to phone fault. For the vast majority of people though, there was no issue, and they got a free case out of it.
I buy lots of things from lots of vendors, but I don;t have an entitled attitude. I've had a number of repairs and warranty situations and in general they have been very positive - it's not unique to Apple. I expect that things be put right, but I'm also not going to chase them down for some sense that I "deserve" something because I was the victim of circumstance.
So, in "karma burning" territory, I have had positive CS from Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Maxtor, Citroen, Virgin, United Airlines and several others.
I had negative CS from Sky, AoL and Freeserve.
I consider the CS received from the first batch to be excellent, and I didn't feel like they should be "going out of their way to make me feel special". They fixed my issues and did it graciously and effortlessly on my part. The second set though... not so good.
On the GigE card front, I am aware they needed to fix the issue - my post was a reply to the OP who was challenging someone to provide any positive Apple CS response - I simply listed the ones I could think of. They sent me the GigE card, but then they also replaced the logic board at a time that was convenient to me - the Gig card was simply to keep me up and running until we were past a heavy edit deadline. They could have been inflexible and said "sure we can fix it under warranty, but you have to send it in or take it to an authorised repair shop". They chose an option that worked well for me, that they didn't have to take. Given that they should be providing good CS, it's nice to see that they do.
I wasn't talking about the magsafe end of the connector, I was referencing a situation with someone I know who complained that he had to "berate" Apple to get them to replace the wall-socket end of his power supply because his normal method of removal was to pull it out of the wall via the cord and it eventually frayed and stopped working.
As far as magsafe goes (and the previous generation of the connector with the pin and ring), there was clearly a design flaw in a part that sees such frequent connection and disconnection and cable movement - the cord was too flimsy at the point where the cable boot meets the cable itself, so it could kink and gradually cause it to get damaged and short out. Apple has covered this with an out-of-warranty free replacement, which is clearly the least they need to do.
Where do you get the impression that I "demand a low bar" from customer service? Talking about my positive experiences at the times I've needed it is far from the conclusive proof necessary to draw that conclusion. You try to downplay Apple's actions in each of my stories, pushing the bar higher, or stating that what they did was standard procedure and thus not exceptional, but I have to wonder - what else are they meant to do? The laptop warranty replacement outside of the time was painless. Didn;t need to argue with them, didn;t need to try to convince them, didn't need multiple calls; they simply arranged to replace it and it was seamless and painless, leaving my brother very happy. Other than throwing themselves on their sword, what else do you think they should do? Making the process smooth and genial, as all customer service should be, as well as giving a satisfactory outcome is the whole goal I thought?
And now you jump into the antenna issue again. The "design flaw" that causes the phone to lose signal if you detune the antenna and are standing in a signal area that the previous iPhone would never have been able to get reception in the first place.
Ok, so the external antenna is more susceptible to detuning than other phones (but it's not unique to the iPhone 4, or even the iPhone in general, just more extreme due to external antenna), and you claim they should have taken every single iPhone back and replaced it.... with what? The iPhone 4 design hasn;t changed at all, so what should they send out in return? Another "broken" iPhone 4? What about the millions of people who aren't having any reception issues? They investigated and determined that the bumpers cured the problem (well, they reduced the detuning - you can't eliminate it) and offered free bumpers to all iPhone 4 users to fix the issue for those who were having issues. From the number of complaints about it, the bumpers were clearly adequate to solve the problem. For the millions of others who didn;t see an issue, they got a free case out of it. The antenna is better than the iPhone 3G's one, and picks up signal in much lower reception areas, but it does have a weakness when the signal is that low. I suspect the iPhone 5 will address that.
I hardly think they're "lowering the bar" of customer service by giving out free cases that cure the problem, as opposed to totally redesigning, manufacturing and shipping out new phones - how long do you think that would take, especially for these customers who are apparently seriously struggling with the phone and need it fixed zomg right nao! Especially when it can be fixed in 5 minutes with a case.
I think you're just looking for excuses to trash them.
No, I don;t think it's sensationalism just because it's anti-Apple - more because of the way the article is portrayed. I agree that this memo paints Apple poorly (but then, it is an internal memo and part of an ongoing issue, so we ultimately don;t know what Apple's policy will be, we can only go by this email), but the claim is the nicely cherry picked "don;t remove the malware" headline.
It would be more accurate to lead with "Apple internal memo urges customers to deal with their own problems" or something - the memo does also go into some detail on educating customers about malware and so on.
This is not just an Apple thing - the way MS gets treated in sensationalist journalism is equally bad, and it lowers the standard of the site overall to be running with stuff like thins, since it polarises the user base and turns into an echo chamber, so you end up with laughably false statements being modded up +5, and calm and considered discourse that runs counter to the prevailing trends gets modded troll or offtopic.
I'm not aiming to give Apple a free pass - if this is their ultimate policy on malware then it's stupid, but I expect a higher standard of journalism when covering stories - I expect I'm wishing for a train that will never come on that front though.
Not at all, but look at the headline, and compare it to the actual content. While he does indicate in the article itself that Apple's stance on this is "ongoing investigation", he jumps right to the punchline and cherry picks some nice juicy bits out.
If he "likes windows and writes about it" then he sure does like his negative Apple stories too. Funny that - pro MS, anti-Apple... Now, I'm not accusing him of being a shill - I think the word is thrown around far too frequently and cynically around here (and note, I did not call him so in my OP), but there's not much positive coming from him on OS X, and plenty negative. One might suggest if he's that unhappy with OS X that he simply stop using it, or reporting on it, but those ad impressions are all important for the people who pay him I guess.
I've got no problem with positive MS writers, goodness I even know people who work for the small, Redmond-based software startup, but there's lately been an undertow of "sensationalise anything negative about Apple" in the tech press of late, this being one of those occasions (of course, alongside the usual tiresome Apple gadget hype, but when is that new?).
What I mean, and I think you know, is the constant stream that Apple users are "sheep" or "worship at the altar of jobs" or that "OS X is a toy OS" or "Apple users have been duped into using Apple products because there are absolutely no redeeming features or other thought processes, it's all marketing". You know, the usual stuff, all very common on slashdot.
Surprisingly there's very little critique of users who use other OSes, certainly not to this extent.
It reaches a point that you need to fill your post with disclaimers and very specific language, lest someone harp on you for some perceived misstep - for example, any time Apple's contributions to Webkit are mentioned you have to point out that yes, I know it's GPL and Apple *have* to release changes, and that *yes* I know it was an open source project beforehand that was adopted by them and that not everything was magically created by them. You get the idea. This is what I mean in defending my choice of OS - you simply cannot say "I use OS X and am happy with it, because it fit my needs better than the alternatives" without someone coming in and *telling* you (often with quite colourful language) that you're wrong.
Don;t even need to do that - just pop open the terminal and kill the process then trash the app, or use Activity Monitor to kill it. Don;t even need to reboot. Reset Safari to kill any porn links or malware bookmarks it added and job done.
You are correct, the OS X software firewall is off by default, and it should be on. However, it is mitigated somewhat because all the remote services (file sharing, ftp, ssh, remote login etc) are all off by default. This doesn't excuse the lack of default on, however.
Welcome to our world. I agree that the OP is spreading Windows FUD like it's going out of style, but I guess you just got a taste for what it;s like to be a Mac/iOS user for a few minutes on slashdot. You just have to roll with it - some people just get set in a "xxx sucks/is evil!" mindset and you can't really argue with it.
FTR, I am ambivalent about other people's operating system choice: use what works for you. I do find though, that I have to defend my own choice of OS far more often than I ever give a negative opinion of any other OS out there, especially on slashdot. It does get wearisome.
They gave me a free GigE card (at their suggestion) when I had problems with the built in ethernet on the logic board on a Powermac G5 and didn't have the time to take it in for repair because it was an edit machine.
They replaced my brother's iBook, 3 days out of warranty, because it was close to the expiry date and it was unfortunate.
They shipped a fresh set of Universal Binary Final Cut Studio disks to me for postage cost when the Intel switch came about, so we wouldn't have to buy the newer version of the suite to be able to run it natively.
Oh I'm sure I have a few more.
They also do "Macs form [sic] dummies" for those who yank their power cord from the wall socket by the cable and wonder why it frays and catches fire, or who throw their laptop in a bag with no case and wonder why the surface gets all scratched and so on.
They also deal with regular people who have hardware and software problems.
Enough said, although the internal memo from Apple smacks of "cover our ass" legal hot footing - they pretty much say "go look this up on the internet", which is not a great response, although this isn't actually a public response. No doubt there will be something forthcoming soon.
AppleCare techs *have* responded to people about how to remove it, although I guess that's not policy now, although given that it's still "an issue in progress" I expect these are temporary policies while they hammer something out - like a malware tool, or some specific legal thing. No doubt it will be trotted out every time a security issue comes up, along with the trolls saying things like "it takes years for apple to respond to any security vulnerability" (+5 insightful). mmm. Tasty truthiness!
No, there was nothing worthwhile to reply to - the GP post is just so laughably, wildly inaccurate that it might as well be one of Glenn Beck's Blackboard talking points.
I think "cool story bro" succinctly gives the level of reply suitable for that fact-free rant that somehow got +5.
Yes, it is - because this trojan (not a virus, this is a simple trojan) is very, very unsophisticated - it installs itself as a regular application into your Applications folder. Step 5 is just to delete things like the installer package which will probably be in downloads, or some other user-space location (and which cannot run on its own) to ensure no one runs it again accidentally.
I don;t think you realise just how basic this trojan really is - it's simply not like the insidious malware you can sometimes get on PCs that hides, modifies system files, prevents you opening malware removal tools etc. That's not to say we won;t see that in the future on OS X, but this malware is almost the same as switching on the universal access reversed high contrast colour scheme and saying "you have malware! pay us $50 to remove it and make your screen go normal!"
Right, so it's even more like OS X than Android is like Linux, thus not negating my point at all, which was that if Linux popularity can be boosted by counting smartphones and tablets like the GP claimed, then OS X can have the same thing applied due to iOS smartphones and tablets.
Yes, I did RTFA, I have also personally experienced the fake website trying to trick me into downloading that trojan.
That's the key word there - trojan - you'll note that I was asking about viruses in the wild, not trojans (of which I can think of a few for OS X, this MacProtector, also called Mac Defender sometimes, being one of them).
It is *supremely easy* to uninstall.
1. Open activity monitor/terminal/process management of choice and kill/force quit the process.
2. Drag trojan app to trash (it's in the Applications folder)
3. Empty Trash.
4. Open user accounts pane in system prefs to check nothing was added to login items. If anything there, delete it.
5. Do a search of your HD to make sure all mentions of MacProtector are gone.
6. Profit.
It's easy. It's just an app with no quit button - it doesn;t do anything sophisticated to prevent you from killing it with the terminal or by force quit, or stop you from opening those apps. It is also in plain sight and easy to delete.
The reason people like this have been going to the trouble is that some people have been fooled into buying an app that "removes" the malware. They have been running this scam on Windows for some time - this is just the first time we've seen this particular trojan on OS X.
now = not
Damn typo.
And the Apple forums have about 200 reports... out of a user base of multiple millions. It's all relative - this is like Sarah Palin saying that the population of of an endangered species had doubled, so why the concern about oil drilling, when neglecting to mention that doubling a small number is still a small number.
I'm now downplaying the severity of security issues, as they are clearly important, but "malware explosion" this is not.
I'd love to get a cite on that. What viruses, exactly?
I am genuinely curious.
Cool story bro.
It really won't - I have seen it in action on Safari and it's really nothing an antivirus/antimalware can stop since it's no different to any other interactive website, just the content is malicious rather than desired. It would only be at the point where the user downloaded and ran the installer, which the website has to convince you to do, that an AV/malware program could really step in. Up to that point it's purely social engineering.
These trojans, you mean. Not viruses.
The only "smug and self important" posts I see in this thread are from Apple haters, who in turn are posting mocking posts about how people who use Macs claim "they're immune" and "made perfect!" and "can't possibly go wrong!" when Mac users really don;t claim that - it is hyperbole that is pushed on us bu Mac haters and then used against us as if we were the ones who stated it in the first place.
I believe it stems from extending the ad campaign "it just works" to it's ultimate, literal conclusion that makes Apple Haters think that Apple users thus believe that nothing can ever go wrong, or that there are literally zero imperfections or hiccups, which I can assure you having been around the Mac community for many, many years is not the case in the slightest. Even spending 5 minutes in a room with 100 Mac users you'll find 100 "this annoys me" comments.
I think it should really be "it just works.... most of the time, and with minimal hassle, better than my previous computer".
The "hole" here is the user.
It's a trojan that you need to download, unpack and then manually install, giving your admin password along the way.
Other than taking away the user's ability to install software (hey, isn;t everyone yelling about how evil Apple is for going for a walled harden approach on iOS?), I fail to see what they can do here, other than educating users on the dangers of installing untrusted software.
I am all for railing hard on security - if there are security issues they need to be dealt with (like the change in behaviour of Safari if 'open safe files' is checked - I do not believe any file from the internet can be classified as 'safe'), but this is such a very big storm in a socially engineered teacup.
Another user posted a screenshot of what you see if you click on a link that takes you to the malicious server (I got sent to one via clicking an image in Google Image Search, for example): http://imagebin.org/153902
It clearly uses your UA string to detect what OS you have and displays an appropriate con. The one I was shown actually animated, with a progress bar moving along as it "found" the malware you can see in the image and then "completed" to show that dialog box.
The security culture is going to have to change, but since when is that new? Social engineering is an enormous hurdle to computer security.
So, let me be clear - there is no "security update to combat that problem" that Apple will "eventually" release. Did you even read anything about it at all before posting? Oh wait, this is /. - I'm amazed you even read the summary.
So in that case, we can count the tablets and phones that iOS runs on towards the OS X total, right?
The way that Linux is related to Android is almost *exactly* comparable to the way OS X relates to iOS. If you count one that way, then the other has to count too.