There is no proof he was pointing a gun at a cop. Even in that situation, there is a review of the evidence. There is no evidence here. Just accusation. If you think accusation is enough under the constitution, you just don't understand it. More probably, or obviously, you are comfortable with this violation. That makes you a supporter of dictatorship, a bootlicker.
And what does that have to do with the 5th Amendment? Or are you saying that the constitution is no longer valid? You realize that means you are a revolutionary insurgent against America I hope.
And so have countless others. We don't attack China, Myanmar, any handful of countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia. There is a significant difference between being the proximate cause of death, and not intervening in a bad situation because it can't be made better from without.
Give me a break. Any government in power will view those trying to overthrow it as insurgents/revolutionaries/terrorists whatever.
Secondly, The Sons of Liberty attacked non-military targets with violence and the destruction of property. Tar and feathering, throwing extremely valuable goods into Boston Bay, all to make a political point. While the goal was to establish a nation based on freedom and representation, the tactic would still be labeled terrorism today by the government it attacked.
Finally, the constitution applies to everyone, not just those ideologically in sync with present administration. To take the supreme law of the land and shred it, is more dangerous to America than any physical attack because it lays the groundwork for the deprivation of life, liberty, and property at the President's whim.
I have no idea what the CIA knows and THAT is the point. The Supreme law of the land, the law that makes America what it is, says that the govenment MUST present its evidence in open court in a fair trial.
You sir are unpatriotic and unAmerican. You shit on every principal our founding fathers fought and die for. Please take your "government can kill anyone it wants without proving they're bad people" to N. Korea where it belongs.
Unbelievable. The constitution is the supreme law of the land. You are saying it is OK for the government to ignore the constitution which makes it nothing more than a piece of paper with words on it. If you really think freedom and liberty are that quaint, you should live in a country without them where the president can have jailed or killed on a whim, like N. Korea, because you are an unpatriotic anti-American dupe.
Dude, take a reading comprehension refresher course. The phrase you cite refers to members of the US armed forces and nobody else, plus it is an entirely independent clause from the portion that says nobody will be killed, jailed, or have their stuff taken away without a fair trial.
* That provision only applies to people in the American Armed Forces.
* Yemen is not a battlefield, in fact, we support the freedom killing, own population murdering dictator of that fine America friendly government
* There is no evidence other than the bald assertion that this guy did anything other than speak, but who gives a rip about the first amendment when the 5th means nothing?
There is absolutely nothing legal, moral, or wise about this. Rather, it violates the very core principals of America and is nothing but a murder of a person for thought crime. Which is very stupid -- the party line of this administration could well be the thought crime of the next, and if all it takes is the president's word that you are a criminal, the streets will run red after every election.
For the record, it is my opinion that those dirtbags Bush & Cheney should join Obama in trial for war crimes and crimes against America. I will never under any circumstances vote for a member of the Republican or Democratic parties (Kucinich or Paul being the only exceptions due to their long term track record, but promises to establish such a record from within either party will be met with only derision and skepticsm from me). These two parties are plainly just two sides of the same coin with a bunch of political theater thrown in to make people think there is some actual difference between them. The proof is that we would be better off constitutionally today if a Republican had succeeded Bush because then the Democrats could go back to play acting that that they actually care about civil rights and give a little push back. The most damning evidence against Democrats is how they let Obama extend Bush's constitutional atrocities with nary a peep of protest.
For the record, it is my opinion that those dirtbags Bush & Cheney should join Obama in trial for war crimes and crimes against America. I will never under any circumstances ever vote for a member of the Republican or Democratic parties -- Two sides of the same coin with a bunch of political theater thrown in to make people think there is some actual difference between them. The proof is that we would be better off constitutionally today if a Republican had succeeded Bush because then the Democrats could go back to pretending to care about civil rights and give a little push back. The most damning evidence against Democrats is how they let Obama extend Bush's constitutional atrocities.
Whatever. Apparently you're self-love myopia is too great to perceive the parallel. The only difference between an insurgent/terrorist/etc and a "founding father"/freedom fighter/etc., is winning and writing history.
And like every other mid-east country, we're doing our darndest to make an enemy of Pakistan as well. Maybe we should. It would serve you neo-cons right to get a little ass-kicking by someone who isn't 1/100th your size. The sad fact is, reasonable Americans will suffer for your evil, shortsighted, and retarded actions.
No one doubts Awlaki was participating in actions against the US as a member of an enemy combatant organization.
Citation?
Oh yeah right, there has been no presentation of evidence of any kind (although note, a fair trial is the only presentation that matters -- still, there's been nothing but the equivalent of the cops saying "He's a bad guy").
No -- All we have is the President's word. Is that like the word that there were WMDs in Iraq? "Read my lips, No new taxes?" "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Blah blah blah. If you think you can trust the government to be truthful, you are too retarded to be allowed to vote, drive, and possibly even walk.
Give me a break. If a group of people proposed the violent overthrow of the American government in order to establish a new and distinct country within the old borders of the US, they would be called terrorists. How is that different from the colonists' acts?
In the end, no universal conclusions, judgments or definitive statements can be made about the Sons of Liberty. Were they a terrorist organization? The British certainly believed they were. After all, the Sons were advocating overthrow of the status quo government and independence for the thirteen colonies. Were they a patriotic organization? Many American colonists certainly believed they were. The Sons represented to them the American freedom fighter personified, fighting for their rights and ultimate independence. It should be noted that the Loyalists also had their version of Committees of Correspondence and Sons of Liberty namely: the United Empire Loyalists.
You got proof, I mean other than the unsubstantiated claims of our government, that Al-awlaki is guilty of anything other than speech? No you don't.
So now we are in the situation where a person who says "The US Evil" is subject to execution without trial. There goes the first amendment, and the 5th. Which one should go next you un-American prick?
Al Quaeda is an existential threat to America in the way a paper airplane is an existential threat to a battleship. There is no army marching in NY city hacking up women. Blah blah blah. The only thing we are doing right now is making darn sure that people will have a reason to hate us and want to hurt us. All this shit is making us less safe and shredding the constitution. It might take 100 years, but seriously, America is over. We are leaving the Republic stage and entering the Dictator stage.
Are you a total retard or just too doped up on your "America Fuck Yeah" bong? The assertion that countless civilians have been killed is obvious beyond the need for citation. But how about a look at what some of our "heros" have done recently (I know abu ghraib is probably too far back for your memory).
Sadly, although he should have been executed, the latest in the group to be sentenced will get 7 years, 4 with good time, and credit for time served. If this happened in America, he'd be branded a serial killer and would get the death penalty in states that have it -- seriously, show the dried up finger he kept as trophy to a jury and they'd be wanting to inject him personally.
Instead, since it was only innocent Afghanistans, fuck it, slap 'em on the wrist and call them heros. I tell you this, if an Afghan family member of one of the victims tracked Andrew Holmes down and blew his brains out, I'd be contributing to that family member's defense costs because justice sure wasn't served here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/09/24/1811217/soldier-gets-7-years-in-afghan.html
You have no knowledge he was an enemy of the state. You only know what the government tells you. That's not knowledge, that's being a good little sheep.
Secondly, it is totally true that he spoke angrily about the US. Here, let me do that too: The US and its policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are pure are evil.
Shall I be executed? Do I not have a 1st amendment right to my opinion? Aw-alaki was murdered for thought crimes and unsubstantiated allegations. If you don't see that as dangerous, you're a fucking idiot.
And finally, no commander in chief will ever pay for their crimes. Obama assured everyone in the CIA right after he was elected that their war crimes would be forgiven. So in the end, you're argument boils down to "The President can kill anyone and there's nothing you can do about it."
That's anti-America, unpatriotic, and shameful. You should feel deep shame.
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Sure he can if doesn't mind getting shot for thought crimes.
There is no proof he was pointing a gun at a cop. Even in that situation, there is a review of the evidence. There is no evidence here. Just accusation. If you think accusation is enough under the constitution, you just don't understand it. More probably, or obviously, you are comfortable with this violation. That makes you a supporter of dictatorship, a bootlicker.
And what does that have to do with the 5th Amendment? Or are you saying that the constitution is no longer valid? You realize that means you are a revolutionary insurgent against America I hope.
And so have countless others. We don't attack China, Myanmar, any handful of countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia. There is a significant difference between being the proximate cause of death, and not intervening in a bad situation because it can't be made better from without.
Give me a break. Any government in power will view those trying to overthrow it as insurgents/revolutionaries/terrorists whatever.
Secondly, The Sons of Liberty attacked non-military targets with violence and the destruction of property. Tar and feathering, throwing extremely valuable goods into Boston Bay, all to make a political point. While the goal was to establish a nation based on freedom and representation, the tactic would still be labeled terrorism today by the government it attacked.
Finally, the constitution applies to everyone, not just those ideologically in sync with present administration. To take the supreme law of the land and shred it, is more dangerous to America than any physical attack because it lays the groundwork for the deprivation of life, liberty, and property at the President's whim.
I have no idea what the CIA knows and THAT is the point. The Supreme law of the land, the law that makes America what it is, says that the govenment MUST present its evidence in open court in a fair trial.
You sir are unpatriotic and unAmerican. You shit on every principal our founding fathers fought and die for. Please take your "government can kill anyone it wants without proving they're bad people" to N. Korea where it belongs.
Unbelievable. The constitution is the supreme law of the land. You are saying it is OK for the government to ignore the constitution which makes it nothing more than a piece of paper with words on it. If you really think freedom and liberty are that quaint, you should live in a country without them where the president can have jailed or killed on a whim, like N. Korea, because you are an unpatriotic anti-American dupe.
He tried essentially with the ACLU suit but the government never promised to abide by the constitution, rather, they had it dismissed.
He would have to be some kind of stupid to turn himself in to the group that promised to kill him on site in violation of the law.
In essence, when the president turned us into a nation not of laws but of vigilantism, it lost all moral ground.
Dude, take a reading comprehension refresher course. The phrase you cite refers to members of the US armed forces and nobody else, plus it is an entirely independent clause from the portion that says nobody will be killed, jailed, or have their stuff taken away without a fair trial.
And you this how? Oh yeah, the President said so. Since when did that become actual evidence rather than mere assertion?
There is absolutely nothing legal, moral, or wise about this. Rather, it violates the very core principals of America and is nothing but a murder of a person for thought crime. Which is very stupid -- the party line of this administration could well be the thought crime of the next, and if all it takes is the president's word that you are a criminal, the streets will run red after every election.
For the record, it is my opinion that those dirtbags Bush & Cheney should join Obama in trial for war crimes and crimes against America. I will never under any circumstances vote for a member of the Republican or Democratic parties (Kucinich or Paul being the only exceptions due to their long term track record, but promises to establish such a record from within either party will be met with only derision and skepticsm from me). These two parties are plainly just two sides of the same coin with a bunch of political theater thrown in to make people think there is some actual difference between them. The proof is that we would be better off constitutionally today if a Republican had succeeded Bush because then the Democrats could go back to play acting that that they actually care about civil rights and give a little push back. The most damning evidence against Democrats is how they let Obama extend Bush's constitutional atrocities with nary a peep of protest.
For the record, it is my opinion that those dirtbags Bush & Cheney should join Obama in trial for war crimes and crimes against America. I will never under any circumstances ever vote for a member of the Republican or Democratic parties -- Two sides of the same coin with a bunch of political theater thrown in to make people think there is some actual difference between them. The proof is that we would be better off constitutionally today if a Republican had succeeded Bush because then the Democrats could go back to pretending to care about civil rights and give a little push back. The most damning evidence against Democrats is how they let Obama extend Bush's constitutional atrocities.
All of the deaths relating to an incipient civil war in Iraq are proximately caused by us.
Whatever. Apparently you're self-love myopia is too great to perceive the parallel. The only difference between an insurgent/terrorist/etc and a "founding father"/freedom fighter/etc., is winning and writing history.
And like every other mid-east country, we're doing our darndest to make an enemy of Pakistan as well. Maybe we should. It would serve you neo-cons right to get a little ass-kicking by someone who isn't 1/100th your size. The sad fact is, reasonable Americans will suffer for your evil, shortsighted, and retarded actions.
Fucker should have been taken out behind the chemical sheds and shot. You are an evil person if you can't admit that thousands upon thousands of people have been killed. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fas.org%2Fsgp%2Fcrs%2Fmideast%2FRS22537.pdf&rct=j&q=UN%20estimate%20of%20civilian%20deaths%20in%20iraq&ei=UYyHTqXDE8PZiALd1LG2DA&usg=AFQjCNEz56oCvO-9hI_9sqKq_CipyCDO0w
Citation?
Oh yeah right, there has been no presentation of evidence of any kind (although note, a fair trial is the only presentation that matters -- still, there's been nothing but the equivalent of the cops saying "He's a bad guy").
No -- All we have is the President's word. Is that like the word that there were WMDs in Iraq? "Read my lips, No new taxes?" "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Blah blah blah. If you think you can trust the government to be truthful, you are too retarded to be allowed to vote, drive, and possibly even walk.
A virtual +1 Insightful to you sir.
You got proof, I mean other than the unsubstantiated claims of our government, that Al-awlaki is guilty of anything other than speech? No you don't.
So now we are in the situation where a person who says "The US Evil" is subject to execution without trial. There goes the first amendment, and the 5th. Which one should go next you un-American prick?
Yeah and you're next. Because they say so. And no, you can't contest or even know the charges against you.
Al Quaeda is an existential threat to America in the way a paper airplane is an existential threat to a battleship. There is no army marching in NY city hacking up women. Blah blah blah. The only thing we are doing right now is making darn sure that people will have a reason to hate us and want to hurt us. All this shit is making us less safe and shredding the constitution. It might take 100 years, but seriously, America is over. We are leaving the Republic stage and entering the Dictator stage.
Are you a total retard or just too doped up on your "America Fuck Yeah" bong? The assertion that countless civilians have been killed is obvious beyond the need for citation. But how about a look at what some of our "heros" have done recently (I know abu ghraib is probably too far back for your memory).
How about this group of Hero Soldiers in Afghanistan who murdered innocents for fun, took photos, and kept body parts as trophies: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/photos/the-kill-team-photos-20110327/0859078
Sadly, although he should have been executed, the latest in the group to be sentenced will get 7 years, 4 with good time, and credit for time served. If this happened in America, he'd be branded a serial killer and would get the death penalty in states that have it -- seriously, show the dried up finger he kept as trophy to a jury and they'd be wanting to inject him personally.
Instead, since it was only innocent Afghanistans, fuck it, slap 'em on the wrist and call them heros. I tell you this, if an Afghan family member of one of the victims tracked Andrew Holmes down and blew his brains out, I'd be contributing to that family member's defense costs because justice sure wasn't served here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/09/24/1811217/soldier-gets-7-years-in-afghan.html
You have no knowledge he was an enemy of the state. You only know what the government tells you. That's not knowledge, that's being a good little sheep.
Secondly, it is totally true that he spoke angrily about the US. Here, let me do that too: The US and its policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are pure are evil.
Shall I be executed? Do I not have a 1st amendment right to my opinion? Aw-alaki was murdered for thought crimes and unsubstantiated allegations. If you don't see that as dangerous, you're a fucking idiot.
And finally, no commander in chief will ever pay for their crimes. Obama assured everyone in the CIA right after he was elected that their war crimes would be forgiven. So in the end, you're argument boils down to "The President can kill anyone and there's nothing you can do about it."
That's anti-America, unpatriotic, and shameful. You should feel deep shame.