Well I often have reasons for saying what I say, I also have a lot more reasons and a lot more to say, but I'm in a busy period at the moment.
You don't have to agree with everything, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether their opinion is right or not is generally a very different matter.
Besides we have a come a lot closer than were we started off.
About culture well not sick as in baby raping, but that came along with AIDS, and the belief that Having sex with / raping a virgin will cure Aids.
On the other hand if you refer to violence or theft, I have more comments on that. For instance you can say "oh the naughty white people subjugated the black people when they arrived in South Africa"
Well the black people only took the land away from the Khoi and San people, there's a pile of handy evidence in the form of bushmen paintings in caves across the country eg Drakensburg, by the time the white people rocked up on the scene, the KhoiSan had already been pushed into the west of the country.
Building the Zulu nation was not peaceful either as it was done by conquering the neighbouring tribes. I'm sure some surrendered but things must have been bad because the Matabele (IIRC) decided to leave SA and that's why they are in Zimbabwe today, they may now be regretting that move.
Further north I know for a fact that neighbouring villages (encouraged / aided by Arabs) fought each other with the victors giving the losers to the Arabs as slaves in return for their help. Canabalism did exist (and this including hunting and killing people) and still does in the DRC, did you know if you eat your enemy's (fore)arms you get his power? Although some woudl say don't knock it until you've tried it is not a tradition that I'd care to foster.
Tribal societies are not big on individual property rights, to this day there is still communal ownership in SA, everything belonged to the tribe, very hard to steal
things that belong to you, therefore there was no "theft" as there is today.
A lot of these things were stopped / severely reduced by the interfering colonialists.
I really don't know how bad the brain drain is, but I know that the sanctions on SA hurt it badly, of course what is so stupid about sanctions is that the entire economy suffers, which means that the entire workforce (civilian population) suffers. The only way this can bring about change is indirectly - it agitates the masses, when you are unemployed you may as well join the struggle.
I wish I had studied history if you know where to look you can find out many interesting things. I am currently wondering what impact the fact that most of the liberation movements in Africa (including the ANC - heck they are still in an tripartheid alliance with Cosatu & the SA Communist Party) had socialist/ communist ideals. There is no denying that the Soviet Union & China backed the liberation movements - some of the "liberation movements" leaders died there, they were educated there, they got arms from there, etc.
There was less chance of the old order allowing communists take over South Africa than you jumping to the moon. Talk about caught between a rock and a hard place.
Then the Soviet Union dissolves about 1990, suddenly communism doesn't work anymore, and the ANC had to rethink its ideas / policys. Fortuitous, I think so.
About my good point, thank you - you'd be amazed how many people don't look at the complete picture they can only interpret events / circumstances in isolation (often out of context). That and a lack of common sense certainly do not help the world. So many stupid problems so many simple answers but not enough implementation.
Aids policy. Yes I believe that it is definitely incompetence. I agree the leadership is not what it should be, some of the best black leaders got out of politics and into business, where they undoubt ably do quite well with their struggle credentials, the governments economic empowerment policies etc. That is why they left they could get further in business than in politics.
I think the same, incompetence is what is ruining SA, preventing it from getting anywhere near its true potential. Eg the Defence force, has gone from being the most powerful on the continent to number two or three. No arms deal is going to fix that there is already a shortage of pilots etc.
The government does not understand that it is about skills, know how, and training not just equipment. Besides as there is not enough budget for fuel they don't get to do as much flying as they should.
About genuine transformation (I hate this word it is so unspecific it could mean anything) define an amount of the variable you would like to see under black control in a certain number of years and I'll tell you if I think it'll happen or not. My bet is say 50% in ten years that won't happen.
If that's what they want in ten years and is all their patience will stretch to, they will run out of patience.
School children in prison. Does someone who is of school going age and who should be in school count? Because the prison system is a total stuff up (See Groot Vlei inquiry into prisons.) There are so many juveniles (ie under 18 and should be in school) in with the general adult population.
Then there are the babies in prison, normally born in prison to their inmate mothers or newly born when their mothers are put in prison.
I hardly think the situation has been improving (Desai commission)in the prisons and Dullar Omar was working the wrong kind of magic in the judicial system.
While I sympathise with some of what the government is trying to do, trying on its own is not nearly good enough, unless you succeed you are not helping things or getting anywhere. Its a very bad thing. It could be infectious the
whole of Africa seems to get it eventually, by far the majority have been
stuffed up through war or mismanagement, Angola, DRC, Mozambique, Zambia,
Zimbabwe, Malawi, that's southern africa.
West africa has had some fun as well recently siera leone, Ivory Coast, Nigeria seem to be able
to spawn enough fraudsters / drug pushers for export purposes. I recall Somalia,
Rwanda, Ethiopia, and Eritrea in east Africa, and that is a very incomplete
list, I only really care about Southern Africa, once you get a few thousand
kilometres away I stop paying close attention.
People laid off. I was talking pre 11 Sep. Don't recall white garbage men/
toilet cleaners / petrol pumpers unless you count owner / managers or self
employed, although still no toilet cleaners.
How about delivery drivers, I've done that, quite a few guys doing that to make
ends meet after being laid off / retiring. While doing that I met a lot of
white security guards. I don't know if that's quite equivalent but guarding
stuff (especially in SA) is dangerous.
Besides at an exchange rate of ZAR10+ = USD 1 I know lots of people who go to UK
, US to work these same shitty jobs because when they come back they actually
have some money.
Can't say that if I was eg an ace computer programmer with a degree in Computer
Science, and couldn't;t get anything but a shitty job in SA that I wouldn't
rather go work a shitty job in the US so that I could pay off my borrowings
quicker, and and if I was offered a green card and a real job I would take it.
Law of self preservation.
One must also bear in mind that SA is following an economic policy of low
inflation controlled by a high interest rate of course high interest rate means
low growth, its supposed to lower inflation but that's not happening so why
bother you basically have stagflation (except minimal growth does exist).
People want jobs they couldn't care about inflation especially as now they have
no jobs and inflation.
Mugabe and Mbeki. You are correct that Mugabe doesn't care about his economy, he
is clinging to power, and things are quickly getting really bad in Zim (think
"the house is burning" and I'm not just referring to farm houses).
Interestingly enough, on SABC Africa they had a Zimbabwean n and he let slip
that "we (in zim) were only liberated when Mbeki came to power" in other words
they were scared of misbehaving with the apartheid government next door, and
they were even scared of the government of national unity under Nelson Mandela.
That says more than I care to think about.
Another thing about Mbeki is that large parts of the world think he's a fool, eg
the middle east. Who's he kidding about the African Century / Nepad. He won't
fix the leaks in his own roof but he wants to renovate the whole block, roof
first block later mr president.
However If I was president of SA I would have told him "I'll put you in the
worst SA prison if you don't come quietly and live on this farm in the middle
of nowhere in SA." If he ignored that and he couldn't be grabbed, I'd have him
shot. I do not feel that this is unreasonable as 6 million are starving in his
country due to his actions and policies, and "drought" or no drought there has
been no starvation in that country since it was colonised, and there have been
plenty of droughts during that time. Add to the 6 million the damage done to
the economies of the surrounding countries. And warning him of imprisonment/
assassination and I'd think he'd listen and if he didn't his successor sure
would.
Emigration and crime. Have you ever traveled over "thah beeg watah" or even to a
neighbouring country? I've done both and I've felt safer in every country than
in this one, although I don't think Zimbabwe counts anymore. Might have been
scared of their driving eg two trucks, one overtaking the other on a bridge,
while you are driving towards the bridge, talk about "applying the brakes"
and the two trucks still bumped into each other in order to avoid causing a
three vehicle accident. Other people who have been overseas have told me that
"you can let your guard down" (after a few days) and when you come back there
is conscious readjustment process which you must undergo. I felt exactly the
same thing and this after 3.5 weeks.
This could be a reason why it has become the "norm".
Mboweni is a funny guy
"Patriots" I see what you are saying. They should be honest and say "there are
things I like / love about SA, but the bad outweighs the good as far as I am
concerned, and I am unwilling to take the good with the bad"
They are selfish but self preservation is a difficult thing to overcome, I'm not
one who is into self-sacrifice.
Putting down roots overseas yes it'll happen, they may come back on holiday
though.
Arms Deal. I am aware that counter trade deals are a big thing apparently they
were big in the USSR as well, apparently they didn't work too well. And I can
tell you one thing for sure is that no one's pulled a fast one on those
Europeans. they've done their sums all right, there will be some investment in
SA, but believe you me its all in the price (just like an infomercial).
I think it could be better spent as well. The other thing about paying them
(Europe) is that most of R40bn leaves SA and then stays in europe. If we spent
if locally it would spend a lot more time in the country, mr helicopter
designer who lives in pretoria buys a house the guy who sells the house, buys
another house and some furniture, the guy who sells the furniture pays his
workers and
spends the rest on sending his son to University of Pretoria. The money stays in
SA and does more, maybe that's what the counter trade deal is supposed to help,
but the europeans nailed SA on the trade agreement (port, sherry), I bet they
made out big on this too recalled all the Merc's at discount prices eg half
off? Besides what do we need submarines for?
But your comparison to the "imports" arms deal of the apartheid "in house"
weapons program brings us pretty much full circle, things may have changed, but
they have stayed the same.
And of course we've just trashed SA's reputation between us.
But hey I figure out that "plain old text" works better than html.
First of sorry for saying that you don't live in SA when you are proudly South African.
Secondly I now understand why slashdot has the reputation it does
Propaganda existed then in an overt from, now in exist in a more subtle form, unless you are black and you dare to question the government you are automatically racist, if you are black you get labelled an elitist or or some such thing which implies that they are against everything the government does, especially the good things.
Odd how come certain things never get reported, while other things get reported on. Selective reporting is both a form of censorship and a form of
propaganda.
About the bombings bit, I never said they didn't happen , I said they also happened more recently.
about the bulldozers bit you should be a bit more specific to avoid misunderstandings.
I don't deny that bad things happened under the apartheid government, what I am saying is that they arecontinuing to happen under the present
government albeit in different guises.
eg the Army had to be called in afterthe police ran out of reinforcements at a recentmatric after party of 3 schools.
what the hell is that about, the *army* is needed to sort it out. search on matric & / strandfontein.
I enjoy the way you compare the economic situation of a country enduring sanctions to one which became the darling of the world.
btw inflation is officially at over 15% we could well end up were we were, even though circumstance are vastly different.
Besides that debt can be reduced by selling off the assets eg Eskom, Telkom, Transnet, any other government corporation that you care to name. So I
wouldn't worry about the debt that the present government inherited when viewed against the assets which it inherited.
You mention Aids, has anyone managed to get Mbeki to utter the words himself "HIV causes AIDS"?
Poverty does feed into crime, but I recently decided that a lot of crime has nothing to do with poverty, eg cash in transit heists, knocking offmillions
at a time is not about poverty, greed perhaps, but not poverty.
I was wondering the other day just where the country would have been economically were it not for sanctions, probably a lot better with less poverty.
Which is why I now subscribe to the view that sanctions are not very due to them not being selective.
Aids is more about education imho and not that degree / diploma type education, simple HIV causes AIDS, safe sex, abstinence type of education.
There is some but not enough.
Back to fear, how come people tell me that riding some trains makes them sick ie they go to the bathroom when they get to work and are physically
sick, and that they live in fear in their homes - of crime?
You end off by stating that you'd rather fear crime than your government, earlier having pointed out that the government used to be feared you missed
the option that I would have chosen, live in fear of neither!
The point of 750 killed while not a good thing pales in comparison to our murder rate.
How many people are detained in prison awaiting trial, because the cant afford bail, I'm not a betting man but some would put money on it, that it is a
heck of a lot more than 10 000. What about them? This is due to the Justice system (courts, state prosecutes) being indisarray that's where that backlog comes from.
Statistics SA is in a mess, I've met the guy who has been asked to go up there and fix it.
Eskom after giving anexperienced employee a golden handshake in order to get their numbers right, and employing someone else (numbers again) has
to employ this person as a consultant to come in after the shift is over and fix certain mistakes. I hope he doesn't work at Koeberg.
Well I bet the half a million laid off over the last few years don't see themselves as better off, you're going to tell me that they are white?
If you want me to be all doom and gloom how about in 5 years time? Aids should be having more of an impact then, unemployment will be worse.
We'll see if Zimbabwe goes pop and a couple million more will stream into the country. That's a result of Thabo Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy". SAsupplies Zimbabwe with electricity, SA has loaned them big money, if SA wanted to they could have yanked the leash
and Zimbabwe wouldn't have got into such a deep mess.
How about when a paper leaks that says government wants 51% (currently 2%) of mine ownership to be in black hands in ten years, later they back off
and say "it was anopening position" it's already too late! The Rand takes a knock, the share market dips, a major mining dealdoesn't go through. How do you think this impacts the economy which is about the only chance there is of relieving poverty.
You make the point of white people complaining and emigrating problem is that if things get too bad people do emigrate, and the people that can
emigrate are exactly the people the country needs to stay, its all the fault of ANC who are only to happy to see this happen, Australia hasplenty of ex- SA's already, New Zealand is bit easier to get into, and Canada just loves the doctors it gets at a bargain rate. As I said they love this situation.
SA on the other hand does not love this situation, you say so what when some white business mangets hijacked, complains, nothing gets done, you
telhim to emigrate, guess what he will emigrate! Kiss a couple more jobs goodbye and a chunk of tax money that could have improved the lives of others.
And I would like to know wtf R40 billion is being spent on arms for? SA obviously doesn't care what happens in Zim, so who else is there? Going to
invade Botswana, because they sure as hell wont invade SA.
How's that for debt reduction?
btw I edited it after I got to the doom and gloom comment and now the whole thing is pretty negative, sorry about that.
But as I always say at least the weather is good man.
You are correct that the laws have changed, obviously the government has too.
But you should probably keep your mouth shut as you obviously do not live here.
You would then be aware of some of the really bad things that happen now.
eg in the past various groups had to use different train carriages, now no one can use trains on certain lines anymore because they throw people off trains now, this either results in death or loss of limbs.
I agree that they no longer use bulldozers when they evict people, they employ people to use hammers and crowbars - put it down to job creation policies.
Why do you think the bombings have stopped, there were a large number of them two years ago eg Planet Hollywood, New York Bagel spring to mind in particular due to the fact that they were the work of a Muslim group which is obviously now very important to Americans.
The average citizen now fears not the laws and the enforcing of them but the lack of the rule of law.
Feel free to provoke more examples from me.
Yes Mandela is gone, I never thought that the sun shone out his backside, or that he was even a great president. He was however a decent president, a good leader, and a great unifier. It's true that you never realise how good you've got it until things change.
Slashdot Mirror
Well either the government is out to get you, you a crypto provider?
Or something is wrong with your setup or perhaps the ABSA POP in you area.
You on Windoze? Internet Exploder / Nutscrape?
Well I often have reasons for saying what I say, I also have a lot more reasons
,
/
/
/
and a lot more to say, but I'm in a busy period at the moment.
You don't have to agree with everything, everyone is entitled to their own
opinion, whether their opinion is right or not is generally a very different
matter.
Besides we have a come a lot closer than were we started off.
About culture well not sick as in baby raping, but that came along with AIDS,
and the belief that Having sex with / raping a virgin will cure Aids.
On the other hand if you refer to violence or theft, I have more comments on
that. For instance you can say "oh the naughty white people subjugated the black
people when they arrived in South Africa"
Well the black people only took the land away from the Khoi and San people,
there's a pile of handy evidence in the form of bushmen paintings in caves across the
country eg Drakensburg, by the time the white people rocked up on the scene
the KhoiSan had already been pushed into the west of the country.
Building the Zulu nation was not peaceful either as it was done by conquering
the neighbouring tribes. I'm sure some surrendered but things must have been bad
because the Matabele (IIRC) decided to leave SA and that's why they are in Zimbabwe
today, they may now be regretting that move.
Further north I know for a fact that neighbouring villages (encouraged / aided
by Arabs) fought each other with the victors giving the losers to the Arabs as
slaves in return for their help. Canabalism did exist (and this including hunting
and killing people) and still does in the DRC, did you know if you eat your enemy's
(fore)arms you get his power? Although some woudl say don't knock it until you've
tried it is not a tradition that I'd care to foster.
Tribal societies are not big on individual property rights, to this day there is
still communal ownership in SA, everything belonged to the tribe, very hard to steal
things that belong to you, therefore there was no "theft" as there is today.
A lot of these things were stopped / severely reduced by the interfering
colonialists.
I really don't know how bad the brain drain is, but I know that the sanctions on
SA hurt it badly, of course what is so stupid about sanctions is that the entire
economy suffers, which means that the entire workforce (civilian population)
suffers. The only way this can bring about change is indirectly - it agitates the
masses, when you are unemployed you may as well join the struggle.
I wish I had studied history if you know where to look you can find out many
interesting things. I am currently wondering what impact the fact that most of the
liberation movements in Africa (including the ANC - heck they are still in an
tripartheid alliance with Cosatu & the SA Communist Party) had socialist
communist ideals. There is no denying that the Soviet Union & China backed the
liberation movements - some of the "liberation movements" leaders died there,
they were educated there, they got arms from there, etc.
There was less chance of the old order allowing communists take over South
Africa than you jumping to the moon. Talk about caught between a rock and a
hard place.
Then the Soviet Union dissolves about 1990, suddenly communism doesn't work
anymore, and the ANC had to rethink its ideas / policys. Fortuitous, I think so.
About my good point, thank you - you'd be amazed how many people don't look at
the complete picture they can only interpret events / circumstances in
isolation (often out of context). That and a lack of common sense certainly do
not help the world. So many stupid problems so many simple answers but not
enough implementation.
Aids policy. Yes I believe that it is definitely incompetence. I agree the
leadership is not what it should be, some of the best black leaders got out of
politics and into business, where they undoubt ably do quite well with their
struggle credentials, the governments economic empowerment policies etc.
That is why they left they could get further in business than in politics.
I think the same, incompetence is what is ruining SA, preventing it from getting
anywhere near its true potential. Eg the Defence force, has gone from being the
most powerful on the continent to number two or three. No arms deal is going to
fix that there is already a shortage of pilots etc.
The government does not understand that it is about skills, know how, and
training not just equipment. Besides as there is not enough budget for fuel
they don't get to do as much flying as they should.
About genuine transformation (I hate this word it is so unspecific it could mean
anything) define an amount of the variable you would like to see under black control
in a certain number of years and I'll tell you if I think it'll happen or not.
My bet is say 50% in ten years that won't happen.
If that's what they want in ten years and is all their patience will stretch to,
they will run out of patience.
School children in prison. Does someone who is of school going age and who
should be in school count? Because the prison system is a total stuff up (See
Groot Vlei inquiry into prisons.) There are so many juveniles (ie under 18 and
should be in school) in with the general adult population.
Then there are the babies in prison, normally born in prison to their inmate
mothers or newly born when their mothers are put in prison.
I hardly think the situation has been improving (Desai commission)in the prisons
and Dullar Omar was working the wrong kind of magic in the judicial system.
While I sympathise with some of what the government is trying to do, trying on
its own is not nearly good enough, unless you succeed you are not helping
things or getting anywhere. Its a very bad thing. It could be infectious the
whole of Africa seems to get it eventually, by far the majority have been
stuffed up through war or mismanagement, Angola, DRC, Mozambique, Zambia,
Zimbabwe, Malawi, that's southern africa.
West africa has had some fun as well recently siera leone, Ivory Coast, Nigeria
seem to be able
to spawn enough fraudsters / drug pushers for export purposes. I recall Somalia,
Rwanda, Ethiopia, and Eritrea in east Africa, and that is a very incomplete
list, I only really care about Southern Africa, once you get a few thousand
kilometres away I stop paying close attention.
People laid off. I was talking pre 11 Sep. Don't recall white garbage men
toilet cleaners / petrol pumpers unless you count owner / managers or self
employed, although still no toilet cleaners.
How about delivery drivers, I've done that, quite a few guys doing that to make
ends meet after being laid off / retiring. While doing that I met a lot of
white security guards. I don't know if that's quite equivalent but guarding
stuff (especially in SA) is dangerous.
Besides at an exchange rate of ZAR10+ = USD 1 I know lots of people who go to UK
, US to work these same shitty jobs because when they come back they actually
have some money.
Can't say that if I was eg an ace computer programmer with a degree in Computer
Science, and couldn't;t get anything but a shitty job in SA that I wouldn't
rather go work a shitty job in the US so that I could pay off my borrowings
quicker, and and if I was offered a green card and a real job I would take it.
Law of self preservation.
One must also bear in mind that SA is following an economic policy of low
inflation controlled by a high interest rate of course high interest rate means
low growth, its supposed to lower inflation but that's not happening so why
bother you basically have stagflation (except minimal growth does exist).
People want jobs they couldn't care about inflation especially as now they have
no jobs and inflation.
Mugabe and Mbeki. You are correct that Mugabe doesn't care about his economy, he
is clinging to power, and things are quickly getting really bad in Zim (think
"the house is burning" and I'm not just referring to farm houses).
Interestingly enough, on SABC Africa they had a Zimbabwean n and he let slip
that "we (in zim) were only liberated when Mbeki came to power" in other words
they were scared of misbehaving with the apartheid government next door, and
they were even scared of the government of national unity under Nelson Mandela.
That says more than I care to think about.
Another thing about Mbeki is that large parts of the world think he's a fool, eg
the middle east. Who's he kidding about the African Century / Nepad. He won't
fix the leaks in his own roof but he wants to renovate the whole block, roof
first block later mr president.
However If I was president of SA I would have told him "I'll put you in the
worst SA prison if you don't come quietly and live on this farm in the middle
of nowhere in SA." If he ignored that and he couldn't be grabbed, I'd have him
shot. I do not feel that this is unreasonable as 6 million are starving in his
country due to his actions and policies, and "drought" or no drought there has
been no starvation in that country since it was colonised, and there have been
plenty of droughts during that time. Add to the 6 million the damage done to
the economies of the surrounding countries. And warning him of imprisonment
assassination and I'd think he'd listen and if he didn't his successor sure
would.
Emigration and crime. Have you ever traveled over "thah beeg watah" or even to a
neighbouring country? I've done both and I've felt safer in every country than
in this one, although I don't think Zimbabwe counts anymore. Might have been
scared of their driving eg two trucks, one overtaking the other on a bridge,
while you are driving towards the bridge, talk about "applying the brakes"
and the two trucks still bumped into each other in order to avoid causing a
three vehicle accident. Other people who have been overseas have told me that
"you can let your guard down" (after a few days) and when you come back there
is conscious readjustment process which you must undergo. I felt exactly the
same thing and this after 3.5 weeks.
This could be a reason why it has become the "norm".
Mboweni is a funny guy
"Patriots" I see what you are saying. They should be honest and say "there are
things I like / love about SA, but the bad outweighs the good as far as I am
concerned, and I am unwilling to take the good with the bad"
They are selfish but self preservation is a difficult thing to overcome, I'm not
one who is into self-sacrifice.
Putting down roots overseas yes it'll happen, they may come back on holiday
though.
Arms Deal. I am aware that counter trade deals are a big thing apparently they
were big in the USSR as well, apparently they didn't work too well. And I can
tell you one thing for sure is that no one's pulled a fast one on those
Europeans. they've done their sums all right, there will be some investment in
SA, but believe you me its all in the price (just like an infomercial).
I think it could be better spent as well. The other thing about paying them
(Europe) is that most of R40bn leaves SA and then stays in europe. If we spent
if locally it would spend a lot more time in the country, mr helicopter
designer who lives in pretoria buys a house the guy who sells the house, buys
another house and some furniture, the guy who sells the furniture pays his
workers and
spends the rest on sending his son to University of Pretoria. The money stays in
SA and does more, maybe that's what the counter trade deal is supposed to help,
but the europeans nailed SA on the trade agreement (port, sherry), I bet they
made out big on this too recalled all the Merc's at discount prices eg half
off? Besides what do we need submarines for?
But your comparison to the "imports" arms deal of the apartheid "in house"
weapons program brings us pretty much full circle, things may have changed, but
they have stayed the same.
And of course we've just trashed SA's reputation between us.
But hey I figure out that "plain old text" works better than html.
First of sorry for saying that you don't live in SA when you are proudly South African. Secondly I now understand why slashdot has the reputation it does Propaganda existed then in an overt from, now in exist in a more subtle form, unless you are black and you dare to question the government you are automatically racist, if you are black you get labelled an elitist or or some such thing which implies that they are against everything the government does, especially the good things. Odd how come certain things never get reported, while other things get reported on. Selective reporting is both a form of censorship and a form of propaganda. About the bombings bit, I never said they didn't happen , I said they also happened more recently. about the bulldozers bit you should be a bit more specific to avoid misunderstandings. I don't deny that bad things happened under the apartheid government, what I am saying is that they arecontinuing to happen under the present government albeit in different guises. eg the Army had to be called in afterthe police ran out of reinforcements at a recentmatric after party of 3 schools. what the hell is that about, the *army* is needed to sort it out. search on matric & / strandfontein. I enjoy the way you compare the economic situation of a country enduring sanctions to one which became the darling of the world. btw inflation is officially at over 15% we could well end up were we were, even though circumstance are vastly different. Besides that debt can be reduced by selling off the assets eg Eskom, Telkom, Transnet, any other government corporation that you care to name. So I wouldn't worry about the debt that the present government inherited when viewed against the assets which it inherited. You mention Aids, has anyone managed to get Mbeki to utter the words himself "HIV causes AIDS"? Poverty does feed into crime, but I recently decided that a lot of crime has nothing to do with poverty, eg cash in transit heists, knocking offmillions at a time is not about poverty, greed perhaps, but not poverty. I was wondering the other day just where the country would have been economically were it not for sanctions, probably a lot better with less poverty. Which is why I now subscribe to the view that sanctions are not very due to them not being selective. Aids is more about education imho and not that degree / diploma type education, simple HIV causes AIDS, safe sex, abstinence type of education. There is some but not enough. Back to fear, how come people tell me that riding some trains makes them sick ie they go to the bathroom when they get to work and are physically sick, and that they live in fear in their homes - of crime? You end off by stating that you'd rather fear crime than your government, earlier having pointed out that the government used to be feared you missed the option that I would have chosen, live in fear of neither! The point of 750 killed while not a good thing pales in comparison to our murder rate. How many people are detained in prison awaiting trial, because the cant afford bail, I'm not a betting man but some would put money on it, that it is a heck of a lot more than 10 000. What about them? This is due to the Justice system (courts, state prosecutes) being indisarray that's where that backlog comes from. Statistics SA is in a mess, I've met the guy who has been asked to go up there and fix it. Eskom after giving anexperienced employee a golden handshake in order to get their numbers right, and employing someone else (numbers again) has to employ this person as a consultant to come in after the shift is over and fix certain mistakes. I hope he doesn't work at Koeberg. Well I bet the half a million laid off over the last few years don't see themselves as better off, you're going to tell me that they are white? If you want me to be all doom and gloom how about in 5 years time? Aids should be having more of an impact then, unemployment will be worse. We'll see if Zimbabwe goes pop and a couple million more will stream into the country. That's a result of Thabo Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy". SAsupplies Zimbabwe with electricity, SA has loaned them big money, if SA wanted to they could have yanked the leash and Zimbabwe wouldn't have got into such a deep mess. How about when a paper leaks that says government wants 51% (currently 2%) of mine ownership to be in black hands in ten years, later they back off and say "it was anopening position" it's already too late! The Rand takes a knock, the share market dips, a major mining dealdoesn't go through. How do you think this impacts the economy which is about the only chance there is of relieving poverty. You make the point of white people complaining and emigrating problem is that if things get too bad people do emigrate, and the people that can emigrate are exactly the people the country needs to stay, its all the fault of ANC who are only to happy to see this happen, Australia hasplenty of ex- SA's already, New Zealand is bit easier to get into, and Canada just loves the doctors it gets at a bargain rate. As I said they love this situation. SA on the other hand does not love this situation, you say so what when some white business mangets hijacked, complains, nothing gets done, you telhim to emigrate, guess what he will emigrate! Kiss a couple more jobs goodbye and a chunk of tax money that could have improved the lives of others. And I would like to know wtf R40 billion is being spent on arms for? SA obviously doesn't care what happens in Zim, so who else is there? Going to invade Botswana, because they sure as hell wont invade SA. How's that for debt reduction? btw I edited it after I got to the doom and gloom comment and now the whole thing is pretty negative, sorry about that. But as I always say at least the weather is good man.
You are correct that the laws have changed, obviously the government has too. But you should probably keep your mouth shut as you obviously do not live here. You would then be aware of some of the really bad things that happen now. eg in the past various groups had to use different train carriages, now no one can use trains on certain lines anymore because they throw people off trains now, this either results in death or loss of limbs. I agree that they no longer use bulldozers when they evict people, they employ people to use hammers and crowbars - put it down to job creation policies. Why do you think the bombings have stopped, there were a large number of them two years ago eg Planet Hollywood, New York Bagel spring to mind in particular due to the fact that they were the work of a Muslim group which is obviously now very important to Americans. The average citizen now fears not the laws and the enforcing of them but the lack of the rule of law. Feel free to provoke more examples from me. Yes Mandela is gone, I never thought that the sun shone out his backside, or that he was even a great president. He was however a decent president, a good leader, and a great unifier. It's true that you never realise how good you've got it until things change.