I think you are talking past one another. Much of the interest in LLVM has come at the expense of GCC. So while GCC is not "abandoning" the GPL, certainly there seems to be a certain flow in actual users toward less-restrictive licenses. I have personally been affected by this, choosing FreeBSD rather than Linux for my server because of ZFS.
I think the nationalism is a hard-learned lesson from long ago... other than some dry academic reasons, there is little tying the entire US together. While there is plenty of anti-immigrant sentiment in the US, I think the strong vein of pro-immigration comes from a blunt reality: the majority of people can directly trace back one or more ancestors who came from another country. Anyone who wants to tie themselves nationalistically to the Statue of Liberty only has to be told that it has a pro-immigration slogan as one of it's most prominent features. It's also self-sustaining... once 10% or so of the population is an immigrant for a long period of time, it becomes normal. More importantly, it becomes impossible to become nostalgic for the "good old days" before immigration. Even the anti-immigrant sentiment that you get today is more anti-Hispanic than anything else.
I have no doubt that other countries have a more progressive attitude towards sex equality, but that wasn't what I was addressing. That's why I added the disclaimer to my comment about not knowing how history will judge us.
Yeah, that's a good point. You are in the government sphere. I'm kind of surprised it is legal to pay a public school teacher to drive traffic to any website, educational or not.
Are we talking about pay in this story? No. Employment and pay is somewhere that discrimination is (mostly) considered unacceptable. This does not apply to performers.
But right now, girls are losing out due to other factors (historical, societal, biological?). Presumably you have two objectives: a) Bring up the girls while, b) Not pushing down the boys
So the boys get exactly what they had before: a chance at programming instruction. If the incentives work, the girls get access to jobs that have traditionally been the domain of the boys. That the boys have to now share the teaching resources given to the girls is sort of the point...
The ideal situation is that the top boys will still stick with programming, but the top girls will now have a shot. The lower-tier boys will lose out unless additional teaching resources are provided. Again, that is sort of the point. They can compete in some of the slots that have just been freed up in the fields of education and nursing.
It's hard to say without understanding more. Why are you trying to help these white people get better grades? Is there some problem you are addressing or are you just being a racist dick?
LOL, yes the totally non-discriminatory police would have to arrest you... after all, this is a land of absolutes and you broke the law so that you could obey the law:)
, then there is the distinct possibility that the teacher will deny access to the class for some male students and recruit female students to take their places.
Well, that would be the injustice, not the incentive to recruit women. If resources are scarce, then some fair method of rationing should be employed. First come, first serve. Random lottery. That sort of thing.
That's just it - I can't make a blanket statement about it without knowing the details. Why are they trying to pay the males more? Is their a greater wrong they are trying to correct or are they just trying to be dicks? In truth, it's an absurd hypothetical.
There certainly is a lot of money changing hands in the scouts. They are non-profits, but everything costs money and you may have even had some of their cookies. Regarding bathrooms, except for public restrooms, they are all private. Many establishments will not let the general public use their restrooms.
Society has decided that sometimes discrimination is bad, sometimes it is unpleasant but necessary, and sometimes it is even good. There is no black and white here. People who think that the message from others has been "Discrimination = Bad" haven't really been paying attention.
Separate but equal was discredited a long time ago. Anyone who has ever seen the line for a mens vs a ladies room can immediately see that the situation is not equal. Boy scouts and girl scouts are not equal. Accepted norms of dress and appearance are not equal.
Absence of an incentive is not really a "penalty". They aren't excluding boys in any way, simply adding a little something extra for people who actually get girls to participate.
Tell that to the Girl Scouts. Or the Boy Scouts for that matter. Mens rooms, ladies rooms. I don't know how history will judge us, but currently society is quite comfortable treating men and women separately.
The Iraq analogy is pretty flawed, as Iraq would be asserting their morals upon a democratic population. USA's target is an authoritarian government. If you need an Iraq analogy, it would be like the government of Iraq sending people in the US spam SMS messages espousing the virtues of Islam. Annoying, to be sure, but not exactly a breathtaking intrusion on sovereignty.
Slashdot Mirror
Now you are talking past me as well.
If a project has no users, what matter is it which license it uses?
I think you are talking past one another. Much of the interest in LLVM has come at the expense of GCC. So while GCC is not "abandoning" the GPL, certainly there seems to be a certain flow in actual users toward less-restrictive licenses. I have personally been affected by this, choosing FreeBSD rather than Linux for my server because of ZFS.
I think the nationalism is a hard-learned lesson from long ago... other than some dry academic reasons, there is little tying the entire US together. While there is plenty of anti-immigrant sentiment in the US, I think the strong vein of pro-immigration comes from a blunt reality: the majority of people can directly trace back one or more ancestors who came from another country. Anyone who wants to tie themselves nationalistically to the Statue of Liberty only has to be told that it has a pro-immigration slogan as one of it's most prominent features. It's also self-sustaining... once 10% or so of the population is an immigrant for a long period of time, it becomes normal. More importantly, it becomes impossible to become nostalgic for the "good old days" before immigration. Even the anti-immigrant sentiment that you get today is more anti-Hispanic than anything else.
I have no doubt that other countries have a more progressive attitude towards sex equality, but that wasn't what I was addressing. That's why I added the disclaimer to my comment about not knowing how history will judge us.
Yeah, that's a good point. You are in the government sphere. I'm kind of surprised it is legal to pay a public school teacher to drive traffic to any website, educational or not.
I think that reinforces my point?
Are we talking about pay in this story? No. Employment and pay is somewhere that discrimination is (mostly) considered unacceptable. This does not apply to performers.
That's exactly my point - that certain forms of sexual discrimination are perfectly acceptable in the US.
Actually in Europe
Fair enough. But if you scroll alllllll the way up it was started as a thread about the situation in the US.
I agree. We as a society definitely have chosen to forbid sex discrimination in the workplace.
But right now, girls are losing out due to other factors (historical, societal, biological?). Presumably you have two objectives:
a) Bring up the girls while,
b) Not pushing down the boys
So the boys get exactly what they had before: a chance at programming instruction. If the incentives work, the girls get access to jobs that have traditionally been the domain of the boys. That the boys have to now share the teaching resources given to the girls is sort of the point...
The ideal situation is that the top boys will still stick with programming, but the top girls will now have a shot. The lower-tier boys will lose out unless additional teaching resources are provided. Again, that is sort of the point. They can compete in some of the slots that have just been freed up in the fields of education and nursing.
It's hard to say without understanding more. Why are you trying to help these white people get better grades? Is there some problem you are addressing or are you just being a racist dick?
Well, we do have mens social clubs which forbid women. There are also women-only gyms and yoga centers. Not sure what their bathroom policies are :)
LOL, yes the totally non-discriminatory police would have to arrest you... after all, this is a land of absolutes and you broke the law so that you could obey the law :)
, then there is the distinct possibility that the teacher will deny access to the class for some male students and recruit female students to take their places.
Well, that would be the injustice, not the incentive to recruit women. If resources are scarce, then some fair method of rationing should be employed. First come, first serve. Random lottery. That sort of thing.
Google is every bit as private - in fact IMHO more-so since they don't claim non-profit tax exempt status.
That's just it - I can't make a blanket statement about it without knowing the details. Why are they trying to pay the males more? Is their a greater wrong they are trying to correct or are they just trying to be dicks? In truth, it's an absurd hypothetical.
No money changes hands in those examples...
There certainly is a lot of money changing hands in the scouts. They are non-profits, but everything costs money and you may have even had some of their cookies. Regarding bathrooms, except for public restrooms, they are all private. Many establishments will not let the general public use their restrooms.
Society has decided that sometimes discrimination is bad, sometimes it is unpleasant but necessary, and sometimes it is even good. There is no black and white here. People who think that the message from others has been "Discrimination = Bad" haven't really been paying attention.
If I chose to go to a strip club, I would feel appropriate tipping the (female) dancers but not the (male) bouncers with my privately owned dollars.
No, man, you have to get a random dance from either a dude or a lady. And they have to be a random age and weight. No discrimination allowed :)
Nevertheless, if we all used the same restroom our lines would all be the same.
Separate but equal was discredited a long time ago. Anyone who has ever seen the line for a mens vs a ladies room can immediately see that the situation is not equal. Boy scouts and girl scouts are not equal. Accepted norms of dress and appearance are not equal.
However penalizing boys
Absence of an incentive is not really a "penalty". They aren't excluding boys in any way, simply adding a little something extra for people who actually get girls to participate.
Wish I had mod points. Some people can't handle a world that is shades of grey.
Tell that to the Girl Scouts. Or the Boy Scouts for that matter. Mens rooms, ladies rooms. I don't know how history will judge us, but currently society is quite comfortable treating men and women separately.
The Iraq analogy is pretty flawed, as Iraq would be asserting their morals upon a democratic population. USA's target is an authoritarian government. If you need an Iraq analogy, it would be like the government of Iraq sending people in the US spam SMS messages espousing the virtues of Islam. Annoying, to be sure, but not exactly a breathtaking intrusion on sovereignty.