Stop trolling. I mean, if it takes real Amiga staff to assemble the hardware in order for something to be called an Amiga, then there never was any Amigas at all in the first place. Ever noticed the "made on the Philippines" on the back of your old Amiga that you stuffed into the closet? Also, remember how Amiga themselves actually used to be a third party developer of Commodore products? Amiga was and always has been a third party product.
Just face it, it a real official Amiga product. That's what the license to use the Amiga trademark which Eyetech has acquired from Amiga Inc. means. End of story.
>> The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of >> it as such or not. > > Oh yeah? And my daddy is stronger than your > daddy! Lalalala-I-can't-hear-you! > > What the hell kind of argument was that > supposed to be?
You say "no new Amigas" and then my reply is that it is per definition new Amigas as they own the trademark and noone but them define what an "Amiga" is.
> An Amiga was a home computer system that ran > AmigaOS. The same company made both the > hardware and the OS. The hardware was a custom > job, as all computers back then, and the OS was > dependent on custom chips and tightly coupled > to the Amiga hardware. The hardware and the OS > were made for eachother.
That is what *you* think an "Amiga" is but like I said, the meaning of the trademark isn't defined by you.
Sure, what you're talking about *used* to be the definition. But then, please wake up and realize that the definition has been redefined.
> Those days are over. THANK GOD! Unless some > industry giant or inhumanly rich hardware > genius comes along and pulls out the fastest, > most advanced and cheapest hardware anyone's > ever seen - and can keep up with development > and pricing - then "new Amiga hardware" is > something to fear.
Now that is per definition FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), period.
> AmigaOS is all that is left today, and you > simply cannot have avoided that nobody makes or > is planning to make any hardware with AmigaOS > in mind, especially not Amiga Inc. Instead > AmigaOS will run on third party hardware. No, > you haven't missed that.
So, are you saying that Eyetech's AmigaOne hasn't been made with AmigaOS4 in mind? Please don't even mention MAI, Eyetech wouldn't have chosen their design if it didn't suit AmigaOS4. I'm sorry but, the AmigaOne has been made available to Amiga users for one purpose and one purpose only; to run AmigaOS4.
>>> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000" >>> motherboards are still praised somewhere on >>> the horribly outdated amiga.com web site. >> >> You should really try reading the official >> information available from Amiga Inc. before >> citisizing them. Your speculations are not >> appreciated, Seehund. > Oh well. Here [amiga.com] is my "speculation."
That is an old section of the website, of course you will find outdated information there. I'm sure even you are competent enough to find the new AmigaOne section which is here: http://os.amiga.com/products/one/
I mean, I can look at the news archive of Amiga.org or even slashdot, does the fact that they have old information mean that they are outdated? No.
> While you read it and weep, please note the old > humourous references to an operating system > based on "AmigaDE". It's really good for a > laugh.
AmigaOS4.2 will have AmigaDE support. That means this information is still pretty much valid as they are talking about a future product.
> Ooooh, they've got that embarrassing old > Zico [amiga.com] joke still up there! "AmigaOS > will run on... ummm... a computer... with some > processor of some kind... And a next generation > Matrox GFX card! That's mighty important!"
You're reading the corporate part of the Amiga website, of course they present simple concepts. Why would a potential investor be interested in more details?
Anyway, all of this are parts of the former design. Try pointing your browser to http://www.amiga.com and then navigate from there. If anything is outdated, then it is your bookmarks.
Oh, BTW: AmigaOne stuff is AmigaOS4 related, not corporate related.
>> That should read; "In order for your product >> to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the >> hardware vendor has to:". > Which is synonymous in this case. What the FUCK > is your problem?
Let me put it like this:
That should be "What the COPULATING is your problem?".
If you still can't see it, let's just end this argument right now.
>> AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no >> idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT >> have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed >> product. > "we will require, as part of the licence > conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is > purchased with all boards sold that are capable > of running it." [amiga.com]
Oh for christ sake! Of course I meant that you can sell the very same piece of hardware either as AmigaOS4 licensed (distributed with AmigaOS4 and the hardware verification bits) or unlicensed (without AmigaOS4 and the hardware verification bits). This means that even if you license your hardware, you can still sell it without AmigaOS4 just as long as you don't distribute any AmigaOS4 hardware verification binaries with it. Licensing your hardware does NOT restrict your hardware to be distributed with AmigaOS only, period.
> I've had it with you. I have said THE EXACT > SAME FUCKING THING as quoted above FOR EIGHT > DAMN MONTHS, and I even said IN THE VERY SAME > POST that you're replying to, and you start > babbling about me failing to understand?
Yes, you are failing to understand the difference in what we're both saying. Things isn't always about what you say but rather *how* you say it. Saying "you have to be an AmigaOS vendor in order to license your hardware" is the same thing as "hardware with the AmigaOS4 hardware verification binaries installed must be distributed with AmigaOS4", but at the same time it isn't. You're saying the right things in the wrong way and I do believe this is intentional.
> Amiga Inc has NOTHING to do with AmigaOS apart > from the trademark and license.
They OWN the AmigaOS, isn't it relevant enough? They provide support for AmigaOS3.9 on classic Amiga hardware today and they will be providing support for AmigaOS4.0 on AmigaOne hardware tomorrow.
> "Amiga Inc ALLOWS anyone to become an AMIGA > HARDWARE manufacturer"? And you compare the > AmigaOS situation with Apple's OWN HARDWARE? > And you top it off with basically saying "it > doesn't suck because it sucks less than another > totally unrelated and incomparable and > irrelevant thing that really sucks"?
Exactly. I mean, if they suck more, why don't you have a petition against them instead?
> Begone. You made me SHOUT. My brain hurts.
Don't blame me because you are emotionally involved.
Well, that obviously got messed up completely, here comes a revised version.:-)
> This "story" is horribly misleading, it's almost
> as if somebody made a cut-n-paste from the
> Eyetech marketing...
>
> No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will
> make any "new Amigas."
Hmmm... I wonder who is the one misleading. "No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid. The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not.
> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000"
> motherboards are still praised somewhere on the
> horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund.
> In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of
> hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:".
> Get a license from Amiga Inc., both for himself
> and his hardware.
Naturally.
> Become an AmigaOS vendor, distribute AmigaOS
> together with his hardware and provide software
> support.
AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product. Eyetech themselves are taking preorders of their AmigaOne boards with Linux preinstalled as we "speak". What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well. Of course you're only allowed to distribute these hardware verification binaries along with AmigaOS4.
The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services.
There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images. However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful?
I'm sorry Seehund but YOU are the one misleading and I really wish you would stop this stupid petition thing with people beeing mad because they purchased an IBook and expected AmigaOS4 to run on it.
> This "story" is horribly misleading, it's almost
> as if somebody made a cut-n-paste from the
> Eyetech marketing...
>
> No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will
> make any "new Amigas."
Hmmm... I wonder who is the one misleading. "No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid. The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not.
> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000"
> motherboards are still praised somewhere on the
> horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund.
> In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of
> hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:".
> Get a license from Amiga Inc., both for himself
> and his hardware.
Naturally.
> Become an AmigaOS vendor, distribute AmigaOS
> together with his hardware and provide software
> support.
AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to.
You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product. Eyetech themselves are taking preorders of their AmigaOne boards with Linux preinstalled as we "speak". What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well. Of course you're only allowed to distribute these hardware verification binaries along with AmigaOS4.
The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services.
There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images. However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful?
I'm sorry Seehund but YOU are the one misleading and I really wish you would stop this stupid petition thing with people beeing mad because they purchased an IBook and expected AmigaOS4 to run on it.
Slashdot Mirror
Stop trolling. I mean, if it takes real Amiga staff to assemble the hardware in order for something to be called an Amiga, then there never was any Amigas at all in the first place. Ever noticed the "made on the Philippines" on the back of your old Amiga that you stuffed into the closet? Also, remember how Amiga themselves actually used to be a third party developer of Commodore products? Amiga was and always has been a third party product. Just face it, it a real official Amiga product. That's what the license to use the Amiga trademark which Eyetech has acquired from Amiga Inc. means. End of story.
>> The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of
>> it as such or not.
>
> Oh yeah? And my daddy is stronger than your
> daddy! Lalalala-I-can't-hear-you!
>
> What the hell kind of argument was that
> supposed to be?
You say "no new Amigas" and then my reply is that it is per definition new Amigas as they own the trademark and noone but them define what an "Amiga" is.
> An Amiga was a home computer system that ran
> AmigaOS. The same company made both the
> hardware and the OS. The hardware was a custom
> job, as all computers back then, and the OS was
> dependent on custom chips and tightly coupled
> to the Amiga hardware. The hardware and the OS
> were made for eachother.
That is what *you* think an "Amiga" is but like I said, the meaning of the trademark isn't defined by you.
Sure, what you're talking about *used* to be the definition. But then, please wake up and realize that the definition has been redefined.
> Those days are over. THANK GOD! Unless some
> industry giant or inhumanly rich hardware
> genius comes along and pulls out the fastest,
> most advanced and cheapest hardware anyone's
> ever seen - and can keep up with development
> and pricing - then "new Amiga hardware" is
> something to fear.
Now that is per definition FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), period.
> AmigaOS is all that is left today, and you
> simply cannot have avoided that nobody makes or
> is planning to make any hardware with AmigaOS
> in mind, especially not Amiga Inc. Instead
> AmigaOS will run on third party hardware. No,
> you haven't missed that.
So, are you saying that Eyetech's AmigaOne hasn't been made with AmigaOS4 in mind? Please don't even mention MAI, Eyetech wouldn't have chosen their design if it didn't suit AmigaOS4. I'm sorry but, the AmigaOne has been made available to Amiga users for one purpose and one purpose only; to run AmigaOS4.
>>> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000"
>>> motherboards are still praised somewhere on
>>> the horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
>>
>> You should really try reading the official
>> information available from Amiga Inc. before
>> citisizing them. Your speculations are not
>> appreciated, Seehund.
> Oh well. Here [amiga.com] is my "speculation."
That is an old section of the website, of course you will find outdated information there. I'm sure even you are competent enough to find the new AmigaOne section which is here: http://os.amiga.com/products/one/
I mean, I can look at the news archive of Amiga.org or even slashdot, does the fact that they have old information mean that they are outdated? No.
> While you read it and weep, please note the old
> humourous references to an operating system
> based on "AmigaDE". It's really good for a
> laugh.
AmigaOS4.2 will have AmigaDE support. That means this information is still pretty much valid as they are talking about a future product.
> Ooooh, they've got that embarrassing old
> Zico [amiga.com] joke still up there! "AmigaOS
> will run on... ummm... a computer... with some
> processor of some kind... And a next generation
> Matrox GFX card! That's mighty important!"
You're reading the corporate part of the Amiga website, of course they present simple concepts. Why would a potential investor be interested in more details?
Anyway, all of this are parts of the former design. Try pointing your browser to http://www.amiga.com and then navigate from there. If anything is outdated, then it is your bookmarks.
Oh, BTW: AmigaOne stuff is AmigaOS4 related, not corporate related.
>> That should read; "In order for your product
>> to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the
>> hardware vendor has to:".
> Which is synonymous in this case. What the FUCK
> is your problem?
Let me put it like this:
That should be "What the COPULATING is your problem?".
If you still can't see it, let's just end this argument right now.
>> AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no
>> idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT
>> have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed
>> product.
> "we will require, as part of the licence
> conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is
> purchased with all boards sold that are capable
> of running it." [amiga.com]
Oh for christ sake! Of course I meant that you can sell the very same piece of hardware either as AmigaOS4 licensed (distributed with AmigaOS4 and the hardware verification bits) or unlicensed (without AmigaOS4 and the hardware verification bits). This means that even if you license your hardware, you can still sell it without AmigaOS4 just as long as you don't distribute any AmigaOS4 hardware verification binaries with it. Licensing your hardware does NOT restrict your hardware to be distributed with AmigaOS only, period.
> I've had it with you. I have said THE EXACT
> SAME FUCKING THING as quoted above FOR EIGHT
> DAMN MONTHS, and I even said IN THE VERY SAME
> POST that you're replying to, and you start
> babbling about me failing to understand?
Yes, you are failing to understand the difference in what we're both saying. Things isn't always about what you say but rather *how* you say it. Saying "you have to be an AmigaOS vendor in order to license your hardware" is the same thing as "hardware with the AmigaOS4 hardware verification binaries installed must be distributed with AmigaOS4", but at the same time it isn't. You're saying the right things in the wrong way and I do believe this is intentional.
> Amiga Inc has NOTHING to do with AmigaOS apart
> from the trademark and license.
They OWN the AmigaOS, isn't it relevant enough? They provide support for AmigaOS3.9 on classic Amiga hardware today and they will be providing support for AmigaOS4.0 on AmigaOne hardware tomorrow.
> "Amiga Inc ALLOWS anyone to become an AMIGA
> HARDWARE manufacturer"? And you compare the
> AmigaOS situation with Apple's OWN HARDWARE?
> And you top it off with basically saying "it
> doesn't suck because it sucks less than another
> totally unrelated and incomparable and
> irrelevant thing that really sucks"?
Exactly. I mean, if they suck more, why don't you have a petition against them instead?
> Begone. You made me SHOUT. My brain hurts.
Don't blame me because you are emotionally involved.
Well, that obviously got messed up completely, here comes a revised version. :-)
> This "story" is horribly misleading, it's almost
> as if somebody made a cut-n-paste from the
> Eyetech marketing...
>
> No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will
> make any "new Amigas."
Hmmm... I wonder who is the one misleading. "No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid. The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not.
> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000"
> motherboards are still praised somewhere on the
> horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund.
> In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of
> hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:".
> Get a license from Amiga Inc., both for himself
> and his hardware.
Naturally.
> Become an AmigaOS vendor, distribute AmigaOS
> together with his hardware and provide software
> support.
AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product. Eyetech themselves are taking preorders of their AmigaOne boards with Linux preinstalled as we "speak". What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well. Of course you're only allowed to distribute these hardware verification binaries along with AmigaOS4.
The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services.
There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images. However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful?
I'm sorry Seehund but YOU are the one misleading and I really wish you would stop this stupid petition thing with people beeing mad because they purchased an IBook and expected AmigaOS4 to run on it.
> This "story" is horribly misleading, it's almost > as if somebody made a cut-n-paste from the > Eyetech marketing... > > No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will > make any "new Amigas." Hmmm... I wonder who is the one misleading. "No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid. The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not. > I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000" > motherboards are still praised somewhere on the > horribly outdated amiga.com web site. You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund. > In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of > hardware, a hardware vendor has to: That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:". > Get a license from Amiga Inc., both for himself > and his hardware. Naturally. > Become an AmigaOS vendor, distribute AmigaOS > together with his hardware and provide software > support. AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product. Eyetech themselves are taking preorders of their AmigaOne boards with Linux preinstalled as we "speak". What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well. Of course you're only allowed to distribute these hardware verification binaries along with AmigaOS4. The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images. However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful? I'm sorry Seehund but YOU are the one misleading and I really wish you would stop this stupid petition thing with people beeing mad because they purchased an IBook and expected AmigaOS4 to run on it.