"Drug dealers do it all the time to establish a customer base by giving potential clientele a cheap sample of an expensive product in the hopes they'll stick with that supplier."
I agree with the point you are trying to make but you chose a terrible example. I hear this all the time but from my experience it's propoganda spread by advocates of the "war on drugs". Drug dealers have absolutely no reason to run "loss leaders" to entice new customers their biggest problem is getting enough stock to satisfy their existing customers.
"The policy for the mandatory clean feed was written and put in place after he was given the portfolio."
That was my point, combined with fact that the NBN was "in the works" under Howard it debunks the OP's "coincidence" idea.
"What evidence do you have to support your claim?"
Conroy maybe the altar boy but Fielding is the rabid preacher who has got labor by the short and curlys (Hanson did pretty much the same thing to the liberals). The greens and the liberals have both stated they will not support a mandatory filter and they intend to block it in the senate - so it's not going anywhere fast. - That, the balance of power thing and the preference deals are all public knowledge but are certainly not proof positive.
Perhaps I've watched to much "Yes Minister" but the test of my armchair theory will be if Fielding consistently votes with Labor on the big ticket items that are opposed by the liberals but supported by the greens. I don't hear Conroy personally supporting a mandatory filter (especially recently), what I hear is another Peter Garrett, ie: someone going through the motions of demonstrating party loyalty. Here is a random article from a quick "fielding filter" search on google, try and find where Conroy personally supports it, go to the end and read what Fielding said.
"He's a headkicker - a politician who is in it for the politics"
I agree wholeheartedly but you have to get close to someone to kick them in the head, why else would he be forging ahead with what he knows will not pass the senate other than to kick someone's head? - Have any Machevellian theories as to who that someone is?
I left HS in 76, just after the oil crisis and the same year that the gang of four lost control of a famine infested China, since then I've seen bubbles pop, I've seen nations go broke, Japan make a decent car, the USSR military machine reduced to rust. There used to be a saying, "if the US economy sneezes the world catches a cold". As far as I can tell the US economy has just had a seizure, fell into a coma, and is still heavily sedated. Everyone else is hoping some Chinese medicine will save them.
"Senator Conroy's handiwork?" - I wish politics was that simple...
1) Conroy rarely comments on the filter because he does not support it. The only reason a filter is being "trialed" is to placate senator Fielding from the "Family First" party who under certain circumstances can hold the balance of power in the senate. (ie: the govt of the day is buying his vote by spending ~$100K on his pet project). It's political theater that most people expect to see die in the senate (including Telstra, who called it a 'pipedream'). One of the IPS's who is taking part in the trial is iiNet who's CEO wanted to take part in order to "prove it was unworkable".
2) The NBN has been in the works longer than Conroy has been in his position. When Telstra leaned it was not going to be handed the contract on a silver platter they very publicly refused to play by the rules of the tender. Personally I applaud both our current and previous governments for refusing to bend over for a large corporation.
How does a religious nutter like fielding get elected in the first place? - Culled from wikipedia: "In Victoria, Family First, the Christian Democrats and the DLP allocated their senate preferences to Labor, in order to help ensure the re-election of the number three Labor Senate candidate, Jacinta Collins, a Catholic who has conservative views on some social issues such as abortion. In exchange, Labor gave its Senate preferences in Victoria to Family First ahead of the Greens, expecting Family First to be eliminated before these preferences were distributed. In the event, however, Labor and Democrat preferences helped Family First's Steve Fielding beat the Green's David Risstrom to win the last Victorian Senate seat and become Family First's first Federal parliamentarian."
In otherwords Fielding was a pawn that nobody expected to win, let alone hold the balance of power! Now that he does, both sides of the house come knocking on his door in an attempt to sway his vote.
"The government that decided to follow the US into Iraq WAS kicked out. The prime minister even lost his own seat. wtf are you on about?"
Yes, that was 2007. Sorry you missed the memo but we also had an election in 2004. - The name Mark Latham ring any bells?
Relevant quote from link: "The election result was a triumph for Howard, who in December 2004 became Australia's second-longest serving Prime Minister, and who saw the election result as a vindication of his policies, particularly his decision to join in the 2003 invasion of Iraq."
Thanks for the link, the Age is one of our better rags. Notice the last sentance - "Senator Conroy's spokesman, Tim Marshall, has consistently failed to respond to requests for comment on the issue.".
I have said from the beginning that Conroy does not support this, however going through the motions of a "trial" is the price KRuddy must pay to get senator Fielding on side for a majority in the Senate. Conroy has provided what Fielding wanted and is now trying to point the media back at Fielding, by the time the next election comes around the only thing people will remeber about Fielding will be his failed attempt to censor the net.
"You know it is bad when children's groups want clean feed as well."
All "childern's groups" are not created equal, for example Fielding is from the "Family First" party but he represents religious nutters.
"they knew the greens have no chance at winning government. they supported them for the senate."
Ahhhh timmarthy, your flame has burnt your brain out again. If you had a glimmer of understanding about how the Australian political system works on preferential voting you would realise the glaring error in that statement. Now run off and look at how in the end Howard was "hated" by the people who voted for him, so much so that he was only the second PM to ever lose his own seat.
Nobody turned up except the tinfoil hat types because most people who know anything about it also know it's not going to pass the senate. The entire project was set up to plactate senator Fielding from the "Family First" party. Because of the current make-up of the senate he gets to be "the decider" in certain political stand-offs. The previous government did something similar because belive it or not some people do want the govt to censor the net, and they have themselves a senator.
"Something has to be done before you all just give up all of your rights!
If the "Family First" party was more popular then I might think about getting off my arse, but as it stands my "rights" are intact and are likely to stay that way.
"Come on, there was 1/2 a million for the anti Iraq rallies, I guess since the public couldn't stop the government on that one they just can't be bothered anymore."
As with the US, Aussies had a chance to show their displeasure at the war by kicking the bums out at the next election, they chose not to do so.
"[Does this mean]the existence of black holes has been proven beyond theory or any possible conjecture?"
Science doesn't "prove" anything and "beyond theory or any possible conjecture" implies something super-natural or divine but yes the existance of black holes has been accepted by science for several decades. You cannot please everyone so I am sure there are still a few who deny the existance of black holes due to the long tail of skepticisim
Australia's sugar industry is not subsidised, they use waste that was previously burnt off before harvest to power the mills, they want to expand to other forms of waste and use their generatoer all year round but as always there are arguments over what should be considered "waste".
Hear, hear! Answering with a rant about how unions and MS are in bed together does nothing to releive this woman of her ignorance.
Re:What masses, specifically, have botnets destroy
on
Botnets As "eWMDs"
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· Score: 3, Insightful
New Orleans was 10 feet underwater from Katrina which is a tad more serious than no power or tap water. Outside the west many cities don't have running water to any but the weathiest of thier residents, let alone fridges in every kitchen. "Law enforcement" would have been much better served if the enforcers were handing out bottled water.
Basic adult minimums: Breath once a minute, drink once a day, eat once a week.
Mod parent up. This reccuring political theater is played by BOTH major parties and is all about winning senate deadlocks, specifically this 'project' is the price KRuddy is paying for Fielding's vote. KRuddy & Conroy do not belive in this anymore than Howard's mob did when they tried the same thing a few years ago.
Slashdot Mirror
My bad, I assumed you were talking about illegal "drug dealers". If we are talking legal drugs the tabacoo companies are legendary "pushers".
"Drug dealers do it all the time to establish a customer base by giving potential clientele a cheap sample of an expensive product in the hopes they'll stick with that supplier."
I agree with the point you are trying to make but you chose a terrible example. I hear this all the time but from my experience it's propoganda spread by advocates of the "war on drugs". Drug dealers have absolutely no reason to run "loss leaders" to entice new customers their biggest problem is getting enough stock to satisfy their existing customers.
I haven't heard that before, got a link?
"The policy for the mandatory clean feed was written and put in place after he was given the portfolio."
That was my point, combined with fact that the NBN was "in the works" under Howard it debunks the OP's "coincidence" idea.
"What evidence do you have to support your claim?"
Conroy maybe the altar boy but Fielding is the rabid preacher who has got labor by the short and curlys (Hanson did pretty much the same thing to the liberals). The greens and the liberals have both stated they will not support a mandatory filter and they intend to block it in the senate - so it's not going anywhere fast. - That, the balance of power thing and the preference deals are all public knowledge but are certainly not proof positive.
Perhaps I've watched to much "Yes Minister" but the test of my armchair theory will be if Fielding consistently votes with Labor on the big ticket items that are opposed by the liberals but supported by the greens. I don't hear Conroy personally supporting a mandatory filter (especially recently), what I hear is another Peter Garrett, ie: someone going through the motions of demonstrating party loyalty. Here is a random article from a quick "fielding filter" search on google, try and find where Conroy personally supports it, go to the end and read what Fielding said.
"He's a headkicker - a politician who is in it for the politics"
I agree wholeheartedly but you have to get close to someone to kick them in the head, why else would he be forging ahead with what he knows will not pass the senate other than to kick someone's head? - Have any Machevellian theories as to who that someone is?
I left HS in 76, just after the oil crisis and the same year that the gang of four lost control of a famine infested China, since then I've seen bubbles pop, I've seen nations go broke, Japan make a decent car, the USSR military machine reduced to rust. There used to be a saying, "if the US economy sneezes the world catches a cold". As far as I can tell the US economy has just had a seizure, fell into a coma, and is still heavily sedated. Everyone else is hoping some Chinese medicine will save them.
Yep, also the Greens preferences helped push him over the finish line.
"Senator Conroy's handiwork?" - I wish politics was that simple...
1) Conroy rarely comments on the filter because he does not support it. The only reason a filter is being "trialed" is to placate senator Fielding from the "Family First" party who under certain circumstances can hold the balance of power in the senate. (ie: the govt of the day is buying his vote by spending ~$100K on his pet project). It's political theater that most people expect to see die in the senate (including Telstra, who called it a 'pipedream'). One of the IPS's who is taking part in the trial is iiNet who's CEO wanted to take part in order to "prove it was unworkable".
2) The NBN has been in the works longer than Conroy has been in his position. When Telstra leaned it was not going to be handed the contract on a silver platter they very publicly refused to play by the rules of the tender. Personally I applaud both our current and previous governments for refusing to bend over for a large corporation.
How does a religious nutter like fielding get elected in the first place? - Culled from wikipedia: "In Victoria, Family First, the Christian Democrats and the DLP allocated their senate preferences to Labor, in order to help ensure the re-election of the number three Labor Senate candidate, Jacinta Collins, a Catholic who has conservative views on some social issues such as abortion. In exchange, Labor gave its Senate preferences in Victoria to Family First ahead of the Greens, expecting Family First to be eliminated before these preferences were distributed. In the event, however, Labor and Democrat preferences helped Family First's Steve Fielding beat the Green's David Risstrom to win the last Victorian Senate seat and become Family First's first Federal parliamentarian."
In otherwords Fielding was a pawn that nobody expected to win, let alone hold the balance of power! Now that he does, both sides of the house come knocking on his door in an attempt to sway his vote.
wanker.
"your rebuttal stills fails to point out the supposed flaw in my original post."
Your posts still fail to reflect reality, so what else is new?
"The government that decided to follow the US into Iraq WAS kicked out. The prime minister even lost his own seat. wtf are you on about?"
Yes, that was 2007. Sorry you missed the memo but we also had an election in 2004. - The name Mark Latham ring any bells?
Relevant quote from link: "The election result was a triumph for Howard, who in December 2004 became Australia's second-longest serving Prime Minister, and who saw the election result as a vindication of his policies, particularly his decision to join in the 2003 invasion of Iraq."
Great stuff, you should write for "the Onion".
It's your right to protest but having seen the same political theater many time before I firmly belive you are tilting at windmills.
Thanks for the link, the Age is one of our better rags. Notice the last sentance - "Senator Conroy's spokesman, Tim Marshall, has consistently failed to respond to requests for comment on the issue.".
I have said from the beginning that Conroy does not support this, however going through the motions of a "trial" is the price KRuddy must pay to get senator Fielding on side for a majority in the Senate. Conroy has provided what Fielding wanted and is now trying to point the media back at Fielding, by the time the next election comes around the only thing people will remeber about Fielding will be his failed attempt to censor the net.
"You know it is bad when children's groups want clean feed as well."
All "childern's groups" are not created equal, for example Fielding is from the "Family First" party but he represents religious nutters.
"they knew the greens have no chance at winning government. they supported them for the senate."
Ahhhh timmarthy, your flame has burnt your brain out again. If you had a glimmer of understanding about how the Australian political system works on preferential voting you would realise the glaring error in that statement. Now run off and look at how in the end Howard was "hated" by the people who voted for him, so much so that he was only the second PM to ever lose his own seat.
Nobody turned up except the tinfoil hat types because most people who know anything about it also know it's not going to pass the senate. The entire project was set up to plactate senator Fielding from the "Family First" party. Because of the current make-up of the senate he gets to be "the decider" in certain political stand-offs. The previous government did something similar because belive it or not some people do want the govt to censor the net, and they have themselves a senator.
"Something has to be done before you all just give up all of your rights!
If the "Family First" party was more popular then I might think about getting off my arse, but as it stands my "rights" are intact and are likely to stay that way.
"Come on, there was 1/2 a million for the anti Iraq rallies, I guess since the public couldn't stop the government on that one they just can't be bothered anymore."
As with the US, Aussies had a chance to show their displeasure at the war by kicking the bums out at the next election, they chose not to do so.
"[The green left] are the type that rabidly supported rudd during the election"
Ummm, wouldn't they rabidly support the greens?
"[Does this mean]the existence of black holes has been proven beyond theory or any possible conjecture?"
Science doesn't "prove" anything and "beyond theory or any possible conjecture" implies something super-natural or divine but yes the existance of black holes has been accepted by science for several decades. You cannot please everyone so I am sure there are still a few who deny the existance of black holes due to the long tail of skepticisim
Australia's sugar industry is not subsidised, they use waste that was previously burnt off before harvest to power the mills, they want to expand to other forms of waste and use their generatoer all year round but as always there are arguments over what should be considered "waste".
Of course you should be able to sue but it would be unfortunate if you were able to win.
Leagal does not mean unregulated, there are plenty of expansion opportunities for an imaganitive politician.
Contrary examples everywhere. Noteworthy scientists are used to being "torn down" and often it IS personal.
"Wasn't finding water and methane in the same place once the litmus test for life on exoplanets?"
Methane & Oxygen.
Hear, hear! Answering with a rant about how unions and MS are in bed together does nothing to releive this woman of her ignorance.
New Orleans was 10 feet underwater from Katrina which is a tad more serious than no power or tap water. Outside the west many cities don't have running water to any but the weathiest of thier residents, let alone fridges in every kitchen. "Law enforcement" would have been much better served if the enforcers were handing out bottled water.
Basic adult minimums: Breath once a minute, drink once a day, eat once a week.
Mod parent up. This reccuring political theater is played by BOTH major parties and is all about winning senate deadlocks, specifically this 'project' is the price KRuddy is paying for Fielding's vote. KRuddy & Conroy do not belive in this anymore than Howard's mob did when they tried the same thing a few years ago.