It's pointless. The hoaxpushers would just make some excuse to sell more books and videos, anf the hoaxfollowers would gobble it up. I'd rather they spend the weight and space on another instrument package and tell the doubters to all go F themselves.
I doubt that the moon landings actually occurred. However, I am not a nut. I'm not saying they *didn't* occur. I'm merely stating that I am not convinved they did occur.
OK. You are not a nut. You're just ignorant of the facts.
For example, if the space suits that nasa had in the 60s were good enough to allow a person to pass through the van allen belt, then why are they not good enough to allow someone to don one and clean up Three Mile Island?
I've never ever heard that asked. I did a quick web search and could not find this comparison being made anywhere. Do you even know that there are different types of radiation? You realize that the astronauts were also in a space capsule? Why would you even make this comparison?
Again, I'm not saying that I have any definitive evidence either. I'm merely stating that I don't trust the US government to always tell me the truth.
That isn't even a valid premise in a rational debate.
Just go to www.clavius.org.
In this case, I wouldn't mind some independent verification by non-US scientists.
So you don't trust ANY U.S. scientist? They are ALL in on the conspiracy? Can you not see how childish that is? And, yes, that's a POV where I truly begin to suspect mental health.
If they can see it through a telescope and they are independent of the US government, then that would add a lot weight to that side of the argument.
Just go to www.clavius.org.
What I don't get is how everyone here is so quick to dismiss any person who doubts the government as a nut.
Because it is more than just trusting the government. Do you have any idea how many people were involved directly in the lunar program, and how many more independently monitored the whole thing?
And the "evidence" used to claim it was a hoax should be laugable to anyone with even a moderate education. There's also greater truths about human nature and the viability of vast conspiracies that trump any preconceived notions of governmental trustworthiness.
I thought science was based on not blindly believing authority but instead being able to independently verify things.
This isn't science. And if you must insist it is, the it's also bad science to blindly DISTRUST a source. The government is not ALL bad and they don't ALWAYS lie.
Actually, I found the studio where they faked the moon landings! It's on sound stage D in the abandoned movie studios in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.;-)
Well, hypocrisy means "feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not", so I'm not sure you are using the correct word. It's the hoaxpushers who fit that description a little more closely as they claim to believe the hoax, but then peddle their books and videos. I consider them to be more the ultimate cynics than hypocrites, though.
It's all about analyzing independent events based on available evidence for that event. That the government lied on something else does not automatically mean they lied about the moon landings. So, yeah, you can trust that the government didn't lie about Apollo, and at the same time conclude that the government lied about many other things around the same time, such as events in Vietnam. The government is not a big single monolith as much as it may seem that way at times.
And calling it "blind" trust is an insulting strawman. You are assuming people who believe the moon landings happened did no analysis of the existing facts. There is ample evidence of it. All the hoaxpushers claims can be answered and debunked. The very idea of such a vast conspiracy holding for this length of time is, if not impossible, improbable to the point where you can safely discount it. This issue is NOT existing in a vacuum (so to speak) where it all comes down to ideological trust or distrust in the government.
If you try to decide on the moon landings based on whether you, in general, trust or distrust governments, you've compressed the world to a single bit of information. That's not a very rational or insightful approach, is it? Sounds a bit lossy to me.
They are just another stripe of ideologue, and you cannot discuss things with ideologues. You cannot reason with them. They are immune to facts. They have abdicated critical thinking in favor of the comfortable easy fog of unthink.
It's a reaction to something, but I have not yet decided what. Perhaps the complexity of the modern world, or the dismalness of human condition.
The sad, pathetic thing is that about 9 out of 10 people you meet these days are ideologues. I don't even discuss current events with people in the real world anymore. There's no point. People cannot discuss a topic in detail. They have to plug you into some simplisitc ideological slot, and then trot out the standard mantras, and that's the full and complete extent of most poeple powers of debate.
Everyone is missing the whole point of this discussion/event/conspiracy theory.
No, we're not.
By majority of comments posted here are merely to malign or otherwise insult the people who think the event was faked.
That's because you have to be a bloody fool to believe they were faked. Thousands of people were involved in the Apollo landings. You simply cannot maintain a conspiracy with that many peoiple involved. You can stop the debate right there.
I begin to wonder if anyone here even HAS an open mind anymore, or if they've all turned to mindless sheep (obligatory Dilbert reference).
What's the old saying? Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out?
Why would you accept something as rote simply because your self-biased government said so?
This is a strawman fallacy. You assume we haven't analyzed the claims of the hoaxpushers. You assume we have not visited places like www.clavius.org and gotten informed. You should not make such foolish assumptions.
I personally think a healthy dose of skepticism is needed today.
You used the key word yourself: HEALTHY. Believing that the moon landings were some sort of vast and impossible conspiracy is not healthy- it's mental degeneration, and quite often bred from extreme anti-governmental ideology.
It always strikes me as funny how so many people subscribe fully to the moon landing, then turn around and refuse to believe that the Bible is God's Word (or something else that is based wholly on belief).
Good gravy! Where to even begin deconstructing THIS logical fallacy! For one thing, you are assuming the hoax debunkers are in the same set as the Bible thumpers. In my experience these are close to being mutally exclusive sets.
I think it goes hand-in-hand with university level education today. Today's system teaches vocational trades. It no longer teaches people how to think for themselves.
And now were in the Standard Diatribe Against Society zone so common to ideological rants. Wake me when it's over.
Did you know that all doctorates used to be in Philosophy or the art of thinking clearly? It is still called a PhD to this day. Hence, very few people know how to think logically.
Zzzzzzzz...
I am not saying that I know how to think properly either, but at least I know the problem is there.
No, the problem is that people like hoaxfollowers cannot think in terms of discrete events. To them, the government is not to be trusted. Period. They cannot see that the moon landings happened AND still distrust the government on other things. Ideologues like them can rarely even perceive the passage of time. The government is doing dishonest things now, so all government actions throughout history must be the same. It's like Muslims hating modern day Christians for the Crusades. There's no perception of distictness between different points in time. It's all one hazy amorphous mass.
Do you think it's beyond our government to deceive you? Do you think the goverment has nothing to hide?
Another strawman. No, of course not, but claiming the the moon landings happened is not the same as giving the government a pass on all things. It's called analyzing an event based on the relevant evidence, and avoiding the generalized ideological appraoch such as "the gummint done lies sometimes, so they done lied about the moon landings."
The point of this post, this discussion, this conspiracy theory, is to get you to logically and scientifically deduce the truth from the chaff.
Yes, and eventually you reach a point where the truth lies revealed. *You* have to accept that many of us have reached that point.
It is an exercise in skepticism.
So exercise some skepticism in the other direction and admit the hoaxpushers are just trying to sell books and videos, and their foloowers are ignorant. Occam's Razor alone gets you this one.
Don't get angry that someone debates your postion and resort to name-calling, defend it.
It's not anger- it's frustration that people could believe such nonsense, especially people on Slashdot who have access to all the information on the Internet at their fingertips.
Debate is a wonderfull tool for being able to see an issue from all sides, sharpening your mind, and learning something you didn't fully understand before.
You miss the crucial point, though. Many of us have already learned the facts, and arrived at the conclusion that the landings happened. The facts are there, and the claims of the hoaxpushers lie in tattered ruins.
I am merely asking that you accept the possibilities, and not damn them because they are not what you believe.
We damn them because they refuse to accept readily available facts. It's not about belief. This isn't religion. There is no faith in the government. There is, however, solid and endless evidence and epirically proven aspects about how humanity works that makes the vast conspiracy theory (and vast conspiracies in genral) completely unworkable.
...by Saint Rafael Agustus while studying tonal progressions in Gregorian chants. In 1687 to be exact. He had a small printing run done of his book. The title roughly translates as "The Cultural Artifice Of Regulated Motes".
Unfortuneately, St. Agustus' tome was overshadowed by the publication Isaac Newton's "Principia Mathematica".
There was small second printing of the Agustus book in 1695, but *that* was knocked out of the public eye by Newton's sequel "Principia Mathematica And The Chamber Of Secrets."
They're taking an already extant organism, "hollowing it out" as it were, and seeing if it can live and reproduce normally with a series of increasingly customized (and minimal) genetic material. Not creating something from nothing.
[Insert favorite quip about how Microsoft "invented" Windows here.]
...for the minature, concealable mini-Tesla coil / electronics zapper. Wander your cart over to a distant aisle, and give the prattling little beastie a good kick in its highly shock sensitive CMOS ass.
No, what we need is journalists that aren't brainlocked by ideology or simple stupidity. Yeah, many today say things "we don't want to hear" because it's lunacy and lies, not because it's some sort of unimagined or shocking truth.
"Journalist" has become a laughable profession that people trust even less than lawyers. At least you can hire your own lawyer.
Slashdot Mirror
It's pointless. The hoaxpushers would just make some excuse to sell more books and videos, anf the hoaxfollowers would gobble it up. I'd rather they spend the weight and space on another instrument package and tell the doubters to all go F themselves.
OK. You are not a nut. You're just ignorant of the facts.
For example, if the space suits that nasa had in the 60s were good enough to allow a person to pass through the van allen belt, then why are they not good enough to allow someone to don one and clean up Three Mile Island?
I've never ever heard that asked. I did a quick web search and could not find this comparison being made anywhere. Do you even know that there are different types of radiation? You realize that the astronauts were also in a space capsule? Why would you even make this comparison?
Again, I'm not saying that I have any definitive evidence either. I'm merely stating that I don't trust the US government to always tell me the truth.
That isn't even a valid premise in a rational debate.
Just go to www.clavius.org.
In this case, I wouldn't mind some independent verification by non-US scientists.
So you don't trust ANY U.S. scientist? They are ALL in on the conspiracy? Can you not see how childish that is? And, yes, that's a POV where I truly begin to suspect mental health.
If they can see it through a telescope and they are independent of the US government, then that would add a lot weight to that side of the argument.
Just go to www.clavius.org.
What I don't get is how everyone here is so quick to dismiss any person who doubts the government as a nut.
Because it is more than just trusting the government. Do you have any idea how many people were involved directly in the lunar program, and how many more independently monitored the whole thing?
And the "evidence" used to claim it was a hoax should be laugable to anyone with even a moderate education. There's also greater truths about human nature and the viability of vast conspiracies that trump any preconceived notions of governmental trustworthiness.
I thought science was based on not blindly believing authority but instead being able to independently verify things.
This isn't science. And if you must insist it is, the it's also bad science to blindly DISTRUST a source. The government is not ALL bad and they don't ALWAYS lie.
Actually, I found the studio where they faked the moon landings! It's on sound stage D in the abandoned movie studios in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. ;-)
Well, hypocrisy means "feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not", so I'm not sure you are using the correct word. It's the hoaxpushers who fit that description a little more closely as they claim to believe the hoax, but then peddle their books and videos. I consider them to be more the ultimate cynics than hypocrites, though.
It's all about analyzing independent events based on available evidence for that event. That the government lied on something else does not automatically mean they lied about the moon landings. So, yeah, you can trust that the government didn't lie about Apollo, and at the same time conclude that the government lied about many other things around the same time, such as events in Vietnam. The government is not a big single monolith as much as it may seem that way at times.
And calling it "blind" trust is an insulting strawman. You are assuming people who believe the moon landings happened did no analysis of the existing facts. There is ample evidence of it. All the hoaxpushers claims can be answered and debunked. The very idea of such a vast conspiracy holding for this length of time is, if not impossible, improbable to the point where you can safely discount it. This issue is NOT existing in a vacuum (so to speak) where it all comes down to ideological trust or distrust in the government.
If you try to decide on the moon landings based on whether you, in general, trust or distrust governments, you've compressed the world to a single bit of information. That's not a very rational or insightful approach, is it? Sounds a bit lossy to me.
Even the Clementine probe could only resolve a blob.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020628.html
I beleive they recently took a lunar image with the Hubble, so I think there may be some sort of damping available for very birght objects.
They are just another stripe of ideologue, and you cannot discuss things with ideologues. You cannot reason with them. They are immune to facts. They have abdicated critical thinking in favor of the comfortable easy fog of unthink.
It's a reaction to something, but I have not yet decided what. Perhaps the complexity of the modern world, or the dismalness of human condition.
The sad, pathetic thing is that about 9 out of 10 people you meet these days are ideologues. I don't even discuss current events with people in the real world anymore. There's no point. People cannot discuss a topic in detail. They have to plug you into some simplisitc ideological slot, and then trot out the standard mantras, and that's the full and complete extent of most poeple powers of debate.
No, we're not.
By majority of comments posted here are merely to malign or otherwise insult the people who think the event was faked.
That's because you have to be a bloody fool to believe they were faked. Thousands of people were involved in the Apollo landings. You simply cannot maintain a conspiracy with that many peoiple involved. You can stop the debate right there.
I begin to wonder if anyone here even HAS an open mind anymore, or if they've all turned to mindless sheep (obligatory Dilbert reference).
What's the old saying? Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out?
Why would you accept something as rote simply because your self-biased government said so?
This is a strawman fallacy. You assume we haven't analyzed the claims of the hoaxpushers. You assume we have not visited places like www.clavius.org and gotten informed. You should not make such foolish assumptions.
I personally think a healthy dose of skepticism is needed today.
You used the key word yourself: HEALTHY. Believing that the moon landings were some sort of vast and impossible conspiracy is not healthy- it's mental degeneration, and quite often bred from extreme anti-governmental ideology.
It always strikes me as funny how so many people subscribe fully to the moon landing, then turn around and refuse to believe that the Bible is God's Word (or something else that is based wholly on belief).
Good gravy! Where to even begin deconstructing THIS logical fallacy! For one thing, you are assuming the hoax debunkers are in the same set as the Bible thumpers. In my experience these are close to being mutally exclusive sets.
I think it goes hand-in-hand with university level education today. Today's system teaches vocational trades. It no longer teaches people how to think for themselves.
And now were in the Standard Diatribe Against Society zone so common to ideological rants. Wake me when it's over.
Did you know that all doctorates used to be in Philosophy or the art of thinking clearly? It is still called a PhD to this day. Hence, very few people know how to think logically.
Zzzzzzzz...
I am not saying that I know how to think properly either, but at least I know the problem is there.
No, the problem is that people like hoaxfollowers cannot think in terms of discrete events. To them, the government is not to be trusted. Period. They cannot see that the moon landings happened AND still distrust the government on other things. Ideologues like them can rarely even perceive the passage of time. The government is doing dishonest things now, so all government actions throughout history must be the same. It's like Muslims hating modern day Christians for the Crusades. There's no perception of distictness between different points in time. It's all one hazy amorphous mass.
Do you think it's beyond our government to deceive you? Do you think the goverment has nothing to hide?
Another strawman. No, of course not, but claiming the the moon landings happened is not the same as giving the government a pass on all things. It's called analyzing an event based on the relevant evidence, and avoiding the generalized ideological appraoch such as "the gummint done lies sometimes, so they done lied about the moon landings."
The point of this post, this discussion, this conspiracy theory, is to get you to logically and scientifically deduce the truth from the chaff.
Yes, and eventually you reach a point where the truth lies revealed. *You* have to accept that many of us have reached that point.
It is an exercise in skepticism.
So exercise some skepticism in the other direction and admit the hoaxpushers are just trying to sell books and videos, and their foloowers are ignorant. Occam's Razor alone gets you this one.
Don't get angry that someone debates your postion and resort to name-calling, defend it.
It's not anger- it's frustration that people could believe such nonsense, especially people on Slashdot who have access to all the information on the Internet at their fingertips.
Debate is a wonderfull tool for being able to see an issue from all sides, sharpening your mind, and learning something you didn't fully understand before.
You miss the crucial point, though. Many of us have already learned the facts, and arrived at the conclusion that the landings happened. The facts are there, and the claims of the hoaxpushers lie in tattered ruins.
I am merely asking that you accept the possibilities, and not damn them because they are not what you believe.
We damn them because they refuse to accept readily available facts. It's not about belief. This isn't religion. There is no faith in the government. There is, however, solid and endless evidence and epirically proven aspects about how humanity works that makes the vast conspiracy theory (and vast conspiracies in genral) completely unworkable.
This is the sort of situation for which discrete assassins were invented.
Great Deities, AC, it was just a joke! Sheesh!!!
Sheesh. The Internet gets less jolly with each passing week. :-(
Besiades, all a truly smart VR pr0n computer would care about is collecting the fees, so it would not exclude even a loser like me. So there. :-P Ha!
The people who push the hoax are trying to sell books and videos. Their followers are mentally ill. Simple facts will affect neither.
The hoax pushers are no better than preachers, imams and other drug dealers.
...by Saint Rafael Agustus while studying tonal progressions in Gregorian chants. In 1687 to be exact. He had a small printing run done of his book. The title roughly translates as "The Cultural Artifice Of Regulated Motes".
Unfortuneately, St. Agustus' tome was overshadowed by the publication Isaac Newton's "Principia Mathematica".
There was small second printing of the Agustus book in 1695, but *that* was knocked out of the public eye by Newton's sequel "Principia Mathematica And The Chamber Of Secrets."
And this helps me get laid more how?
This gets me closer to a completely immersive VR pr0n experience how?
I wish the brains of the world would turn their minds to dealing with what is truly important and useful.
[Insert favorite quip about how Microsoft "invented" Windows here.]
...for the minature, concealable mini-Tesla coil / electronics zapper. Wander your cart over to a distant aisle, and give the prattling little beastie a good kick in its highly shock sensitive CMOS ass.
"Journalist" has become a laughable profession that people trust even less than lawyers. At least you can hire your own lawyer.