except that they admitted NOTHING. They are claiming that it was a mistake, not out and out lying and cheating. Good Lord, they sound like GM, Daimler, Audi, Toyota, Putin, etc.
China will always cheat. That is why we also need to be aware of what is going on with them at all time. This is no different than how they act with their gymnasts. Or how they act in space, or on the sprately islands that belong to other nations.
One thing that so many miss on these studies is that if more than 15% of the vehicles charge in the daytime, then the grid and possibly energy, is not enough. It will demand major money to be spent.
It is for that very reason why I am opposed to subsidies for hybrids, or any general purpose EV with less than 100 MPC. And ideally, any large subsidy should be ONLY for vehicles with 150+ MPC. They are the ones that will actually lower the costs of delivered electricity.
And yet, numerous studies by EIA, and others, show that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Over and over, they have said that the grid can EASILY handle converting 100% of our vehicles to EV, so long as more than 85% of the cars charge at night. Here you go. Here is a link explaining the most CURRENT study proving you wrong.
Ok, so many things wrong here:
1), In Hawaii, that 1-2 battery pack is enough to power their homes at nighttime. The reason is that they pretty much have no HVAC. They are currently prohibited from adding Solar and then selling to back to the utility. However, if they add batteries for the home, and have the car, then they do NOT need the local utility. And with.38/KWH, these are MUCH cheaper to run for home.
2) nearly all homes in America do NOT need to have increased power lines to handle an electric car. The reason is that nearly all of our homes have 200 amps and can handle a dryer AND an electric oven. Even at the same time.
For charging an EV at home, all you need is a 240 V/40 A, just like on Dryers, and then have the car autocharge after 1 AM.
What does not make sense is why so many ppl hate Tesla and scream that anybody who sees economic value in it, to be a fanbois.
Please provide a link that shows that MB has been going with the same tech as Tesla and it has to be residential. Because if that is true, then it means that this story is a total lie by Daimler.
Hawaii has electricity at.38/kWh, and gas is expensive. A lot of the east coast has.20 differentials as well.
Hopefully , Tesla hard targets Hawaii for solar, battery and car. It really makes good sense there. From there they can target NY, NJ, MA, etc.
Nice thought, but their plan has been to grow, rather than manage, energy. Oddly, a few power companies have figured out that the old ways do not work for them, but are still fighting change.
First, I never said Solar. I said AE. It COULD be Solar, but it can also be wind, hydro, whatever. More importantly, HVACs use 1/2 to 2/3 of a buildings energy. By requiring a NEW building to have on-site AE energy equal to HVAC's energy, it allows builders to choose between:
1) insulating better ( R-30 in the walls aerogel based windows, etc),
2) using better forms of HVAC such as geo-thermal heatpumps,
3) using large amounts of AE,
4) OR various combinations within.
And since this is replacing the energy/money that would go out, this is NOT a tax, but simply requiring that ppl live cleaner, and pay up-front.
Secondly, I mostly agree about SpaceX, HOWEVER, the fact is, that they are doing INNOVATIVE work such as landing and re-use of the equipment. More importantly, spaceX's REAL innovation, like Tesla's and Solar Cities, is NOT seen. It is in their manufacturing.
3) Before the roadster came out, ppl said that Tesla would NEVER get off the ground like Musk promised.
Then when Roadster hit the market, they said that the Model S would NEVER go for under 100K like Musk promised.
Now, ppl say that it will NEVER be down to the 35K like Musk promises.
If you are SO sure about your beliefs, then please short Tesla (and Solar City). Ideally, you should short Tesla in the next 2 weeks if you have any real belief and want to avoid being a hypocrite.
You have to be kidding.
Tesla has a supercharger that charges 80% in 40 minutes or less.
Likewise, their batteries are not only, the cheapest per KW, but also lasting the longest of any li-ion in vehicles.
Spacex is working towards landing first stage as well as the capsule and re-using it quickly.
Nobody had a pusher abort system that can be used for landing on earth as well as mars and the moon.
In addition, nobody has done a full stage methane engine, but Tesla is testing theirs now.
now, we have solar city. At this time, I would not call them innovative, but that could change.
So, musk companies are adding massively to american economy, while others continue to outsource, while killing off R&D.
Spot on. We should NOT have variable taxes. Just a simple %. And as to subsidies, all of them should be limited time and designed to only start an industry.
These are subsidies that gov offers. He has not stolen anything.
In addition, Kock broths get more than that EACH YEAR. Do you think that the neo-cons are going after them? And no, the tea-party will not be going after Musk OR kock brothers. As such, the GOP will be split on this.
So many ppl are polarized about him. They either hate him because he is successful, or they love him because he is innovative. Look at how fast these postings have jumped.
LOL.
DO you really think that 7K makes a difference to the average buyer of a Model S? Nope.
However, where the model S has sold, it HAS cut the sales of Lexus, Caddies, Porsche Panamera, etc. IOW, cars that are of the same class are way down in sales. And with the Model X coming in 2 months, it should kill off sales like Escalade, along with the Cayennes, etc.
Within 2 year, the Model 3, at a price of $35K, will be at the average price of a car sold in America. That will make a HUGE difference not only to buyers, but to other car makers.
They forgot the benefit that it gets us out of the Middle East. That sandtrap is a massive waste of resources that I hate is being subsidized.
If only the Middle East were our main source of oil... it isn't.* And even with the shift to electric vehicles and solar power, petrochemicals are still vitally important industrial feedstocks, and thus a stable Middle East is still of prime economic interest to the West.
If we quit burning oil/nat gas, America will not need to import any oil. We have plenty for all of the other uses.
The subsidies you want to pay, then, is to the frackers, and shale oil extractors. Not to some dot.bomb Paypal wiz kid who's the new Paul Allen.
LOL. Uh, no. We need to STOP subsidies on oil AND Solar TODAY, along with changing the subsidies on Wind, other AE, EVs, Energy Storage, and nat gas use in Commercial Vehicles.
By stopping subsidies for oil and in fact, raising the gas/diesel taxes so that they support the roads properly, it will encourage Americans to move off ICE.
Likewise, we should stop the EV/hybrid subsidies, and instead, simply offer up a limited time subsidy based on range. Hybrids keep us tied to oil. And EVs like the leaf will actually cost us MORE down the road due to their small amount of storage. Instead, we should offer up $3.5K for any vehicle below 100 MPC based on EPA rating. Then offer up $7k for vehicles between 100-149 MPC. Finally, for anything that gets 150 MPC on-up, they should get $14K.
In addition, we should provide limited time subsidies for COMMERCIAL vehicles, or any LARGE passenger vehicle, for using Nat Gas, and within 3 years, only for series hybrids using Nat Gas. This will allow for these vehicles to stop using diesel (which we import via oil imports), and the series hybrid will get them moving towards electric which will allow us to stop using nat gas down the road.
Wind should be stopped in 2-4 years.
And then Energy Storage should be given a LIMITED TIME subsidy that starts high and drops every year. In addition, it should be different based on usage (residential vs commercial vs utility, with Utility and Commercial being the more valuable).
Not only should it be a % like it is for regular ppl, but, we should jump that % up for environmentally sensitive land, and drop it for land that is not.
In addition, we should require that drillers and piping companies be held responsible for their actions. Yet, we do not.
You must be one of the paid russian trolls.
1) 90s was about the internet being opened.
2) the only real manufacturing that we lost during the 90s was steel.
3) it was during 00's that America lost the majority of our manufacturing, due to tax codes that W/neo-cons passed (and is STILL on the books).
4) manufacturing is REQUIRED by nations to keep designs going.
What is needed is to remove subsidies for OLD technology and then have limited time subsidies for any new tech that we want to develop. For example, we SHOULD use subsidies to get Thorium/Molten Salt reactors going. Likewise, we SHOULD use subsidies to get Energy Storage going. The difference is that these should ONLY be used on products from nations that do not block ours or dumps theirs on our markets.
Actually, Apple, Microsoft, and Google have taken billions in money from the feds.
In addition:
1) Solar City is only everybody's buildings. Also, we should stop the Solar subsidies since many companies no longer need them. Far better is to simply require that all new buildings below 6 stories to have enough on-site AE to equal their HVAC's energy usage.
2) SpaceX is the cheapest launch system going. Bar none. And they are about to be even cheaper. So far, SpaceX has actually SAVED the feds more money than it has costs them.
3) Tesla's Model S and X is currently for the upper middle class to wealthy. Probably it is the upper 1/3 that affords these. OTOH, in about 2 years, it will be the upper 2/3 that affords them.
Finally, claiming that it is the POOR that pay for these subsidies is a joke. Right now, in America, the bottom 50% pay NOTHING in the federal taxes. So, like the rest of your post, total BS.
And it would be irresponsible for Musk to NOT take the subsidies. Where the real problem is, that gov, feds and states, are giving these out. Hell, the fossil fuel industry gets 8B / year. That should be stopped NOW.
Slashdot Mirror
Baidu is NOT like Google. Google innovates while Baidu simply copies others and then tries to take credit.
except that they admitted NOTHING. They are claiming that it was a mistake, not out and out lying and cheating. Good Lord, they sound like GM, Daimler, Audi, Toyota, Putin, etc.
China will always cheat. That is why we also need to be aware of what is going on with them at all time. This is no different than how they act with their gymnasts. Or how they act in space, or on the sprately islands that belong to other nations.
One thing that so many miss on these studies is that if more than 15% of the vehicles charge in the daytime, then the grid and possibly energy, is not enough. It will demand major money to be spent.
It is for that very reason why I am opposed to subsidies for hybrids, or any general purpose EV with less than 100 MPC. And ideally, any large subsidy should be ONLY for vehicles with 150+ MPC. They are the ones that will actually lower the costs of delivered electricity.
And yet, numerous studies by EIA, and others, show that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Over and over, they have said that the grid can EASILY handle converting 100% of our vehicles to EV, so long as more than 85% of the cars charge at night.
Here you go. Here is a link explaining the most CURRENT study proving you wrong.
Ok, so many things wrong here: .38/KWH, these are MUCH cheaper to run for home.
1), In Hawaii, that 1-2 battery pack is enough to power their homes at nighttime. The reason is that they pretty much have no HVAC. They are currently prohibited from adding Solar and then selling to back to the utility. However, if they add batteries for the home, and have the car, then they do NOT need the local utility. And with
2) nearly all homes in America do NOT need to have increased power lines to handle an electric car. The reason is that nearly all of our homes have 200 amps and can handle a dryer AND an electric oven. Even at the same time.
For charging an EV at home, all you need is a 240 V/40 A, just like on Dryers, and then have the car autocharge after 1 AM.
What does not make sense is why so many ppl hate Tesla and scream that anybody who sees economic value in it, to be a fanbois.
Yes, but hybrids are pure junk and have nothing to do with Tesla.
Please provide a link that shows that MB has been going with the same tech as Tesla and it has to be residential. Because if that is true, then it means that this story is a total lie by Daimler.
Google for 'Daimler makes electric batteries' and you will find that lg makes them for Daimler.
this will be the end of Daimler. They do not make their own batteries.
However , batteries are a cheap way to buffer varying demand. In addition, flow batteries are becoming cheap.
Hawaii has electricity at .38/kWh, and gas is expensive. A lot of the east coast has .20 differentials as well.
Hopefully , Tesla hard targets Hawaii for solar, battery and car. It really makes good sense there. From there they can target NY, NJ, MA, etc.
Nice thought, but their plan has been to grow, rather than manage, energy. Oddly, a few power companies have figured out that the old ways do not work for them, but are still fighting change.
That is NOT execution. That is INNOVATION.
Hell, Tesla Opensources and others do not take it.
First, I never said Solar. I said AE. It COULD be Solar, but it can also be wind, hydro, whatever. More importantly, HVACs use 1/2 to 2/3 of a buildings energy. By requiring a NEW building to have on-site AE energy equal to HVAC's energy, it allows builders to choose between:
1) insulating better ( R-30 in the walls aerogel based windows, etc),
2) using better forms of HVAC such as geo-thermal heatpumps,
3) using large amounts of AE,
4) OR various combinations within.
And since this is replacing the energy/money that would go out, this is NOT a tax, but simply requiring that ppl live cleaner, and pay up-front.
Secondly, I mostly agree about SpaceX, HOWEVER, the fact is, that they are doing INNOVATIVE work such as landing and re-use of the equipment. More importantly, spaceX's REAL innovation, like Tesla's and Solar Cities, is NOT seen. It is in their manufacturing.
3) Before the roadster came out, ppl said that Tesla would NEVER get off the ground like Musk promised.
Then when Roadster hit the market, they said that the Model S would NEVER go for under 100K like Musk promised. Now, ppl say that it will NEVER be down to the 35K like Musk promises.
If you are SO sure about your beliefs, then please short Tesla (and Solar City). Ideally, you should short Tesla in the next 2 weeks if you have any real belief and want to avoid being a hypocrite.
You have to be kidding.
Tesla has a supercharger that charges 80% in 40 minutes or less. Likewise, their batteries are not only, the cheapest per KW, but also lasting the longest of any li-ion in vehicles.
Spacex is working towards landing first stage as well as the capsule and re-using it quickly. Nobody had a pusher abort system that can be used for landing on earth as well as mars and the moon. In addition, nobody has done a full stage methane engine, but Tesla is testing theirs now.
now, we have solar city. At this time, I would not call them innovative, but that could change.
So, musk companies are adding massively to american economy, while others continue to outsource, while killing off R&D.
Spot on. We should NOT have variable taxes. Just a simple %. And as to subsidies, all of them should be limited time and designed to only start an industry.
These are subsidies that gov offers. He has not stolen anything.
In addition, Kock broths get more than that EACH YEAR. Do you think that the neo-cons are going after them? And no, the tea-party will not be going after Musk OR kock brothers. As such, the GOP will be split on this.
So many ppl are polarized about him. They either hate him because he is successful, or they love him because he is innovative. Look at how fast these postings have jumped.
LOL.
DO you really think that 7K makes a difference to the average buyer of a Model S? Nope.
However, where the model S has sold, it HAS cut the sales of Lexus, Caddies, Porsche Panamera, etc. IOW, cars that are of the same class are way down in sales. And with the Model X coming in 2 months, it should kill off sales like Escalade, along with the Cayennes, etc.
Within 2 year, the Model 3, at a price of $35K, will be at the average price of a car sold in America. That will make a HUGE difference not only to buyers, but to other car makers.
If only the Middle East were our main source of oil... it isn't.* And even with the shift to electric vehicles and solar power, petrochemicals are still vitally important industrial feedstocks, and thus a stable Middle East is still of prime economic interest to the West.
If we quit burning oil/nat gas, America will not need to import any oil. We have plenty for all of the other uses.
The subsidies you want to pay, then, is to the frackers, and shale oil extractors. Not to some dot.bomb Paypal wiz kid who's the new Paul Allen.
LOL. Uh, no. We need to STOP subsidies on oil AND Solar TODAY, along with changing the subsidies on Wind, other AE, EVs, Energy Storage, and nat gas use in Commercial Vehicles.
By stopping subsidies for oil and in fact, raising the gas/diesel taxes so that they support the roads properly, it will encourage Americans to move off ICE.
Likewise, we should stop the EV/hybrid subsidies, and instead, simply offer up a limited time subsidy based on range. Hybrids keep us tied to oil. And EVs like the leaf will actually cost us MORE down the road due to their small amount of storage. Instead, we should offer up $3.5K for any vehicle below 100 MPC based on EPA rating. Then offer up $7k for vehicles between 100-149 MPC. Finally, for anything that gets 150 MPC on-up, they should get $14K.
In addition, we should provide limited time subsidies for COMMERCIAL vehicles, or any LARGE passenger vehicle, for using Nat Gas, and within 3 years, only for series hybrids using Nat Gas. This will allow for these vehicles to stop using diesel (which we import via oil imports), and the series hybrid will get them moving towards electric which will allow us to stop using nat gas down the road.
Wind should be stopped in 2-4 years.
And then Energy Storage should be given a LIMITED TIME subsidy that starts high and drops every year. In addition, it should be different based on usage (residential vs commercial vs utility, with Utility and Commercial being the more valuable).
Not only should it be a % like it is for regular ppl, but, we should jump that % up for environmentally sensitive land, and drop it for land that is not.
In addition, we should require that drillers and piping companies be held responsible for their actions. Yet, we do not.
Really? In what way is a company that actually makes things, an added layer?
You must be one of the paid russian trolls.
1) 90s was about the internet being opened.
2) the only real manufacturing that we lost during the 90s was steel.
3) it was during 00's that America lost the majority of our manufacturing, due to tax codes that W/neo-cons passed (and is STILL on the books).
4) manufacturing is REQUIRED by nations to keep designs going.
What is needed is to remove subsidies for OLD technology and then have limited time subsidies for any new tech that we want to develop. For example, we SHOULD use subsidies to get Thorium/Molten Salt reactors going. Likewise, we SHOULD use subsidies to get Energy Storage going. The difference is that these should ONLY be used on products from nations that do not block ours or dumps theirs on our markets.
Actually, Apple, Microsoft, and Google have taken billions in money from the feds.
In addition:
1) Solar City is only everybody's buildings. Also, we should stop the Solar subsidies since many companies no longer need them. Far better is to simply require that all new buildings below 6 stories to have enough on-site AE to equal their HVAC's energy usage.
2) SpaceX is the cheapest launch system going. Bar none. And they are about to be even cheaper. So far, SpaceX has actually SAVED the feds more money than it has costs them.
3) Tesla's Model S and X is currently for the upper middle class to wealthy. Probably it is the upper 1/3 that affords these. OTOH, in about 2 years, it will be the upper 2/3 that affords them.
Finally, claiming that it is the POOR that pay for these subsidies is a joke. Right now, in America, the bottom 50% pay NOTHING in the federal taxes. So, like the rest of your post, total BS.
And it would be irresponsible for Musk to NOT take the subsidies. Where the real problem is, that gov, feds and states, are giving these out. Hell, the fossil fuel industry gets 8B / year. That should be stopped NOW.