That's a pretty bold statement, got anything to back it up?
The Revolution will not be televised. You can watch it on google video.
Additionally, the broadcasts are located on youtube, tough to find but worth it.
And as always there are many more reports from people actually there. You're going to have to commit your own research project to gain some of this information, but I've given you a start on at least that part.
To be fair to the opposition, you will also here "debunkings". It will be up to you to research and make your own decisions.
Ultimately I disagree with several decisions Chavez has made, but he is hugely popular. It isn't up for us to decide, but the people. He is the first president who has done anything for the poor, and they are quite thrilled. The local councils are very intriguing.
I could say a lot more, but the information is out there to find. Youtube is an excellent resource if you speak the language, or have a translator (thank you friends...:)
I have a lot of interesting information, I wasn't exactly prepared for a full scale blowout on Slashdot. At least when I'm arguing with the opposition they understand the issues.
Although I have been wrong a few times in this thread, so there you go with that.
Article 74: Statutes whose abrogation are requested on the initiative of a number of voters constituting at least 10% of the voters registered in the civil and electoral registry, or by the President* of the Republic taken at a meeting of the Cabinet, shall be submitted to a referendum for its abrogation in whole or in part. Decrees with the force of law issued by the President of the Republic, making use of the authority prescribed under article 236, section 8 of this Constitution, may also be submitted to an abrogatory referendum, when it is requested by a number of voters constituting at least 5% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry. In order for the abrogatory referendum to be valid, a number of voters constituting at least 40% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry shall be essential. It shall not be possible to submit budget laws to an abrogatory referendum, neither those establishing or modifying taxes, relating to public credit, to amnesty, the protection, guaranteeing and developing human rights, nor those which ratify international treaties. There shall not be more than one abrogatory referendum on the same matter during the same constitutional term.
I always respect your slashdot comments, I have you listed as a friend and enjoy your input, but you are really out of line.
Here we go,
Complaining about it would only make them look like whiners. Is this the best you can do?
Participation 75% of registered voters participated in the December 2006 election. More than 15,000 Communal Councils formed in 2006 that give neighborhoods power to make local decisions. Massive community participation in government social missions.
Free and Fair Elections Eleven internationally observed national elections in last eight years. Government promotes voter registration. Independent National Electoral Council oversees elections. Standardized voting machines nationwide produce paper trail. Opposition claims of fraud exhaustively investigated. Constitution provides for recall of any elected official.
Freedom of Press Hundreds of new independent community media outlets. 2005 reform increased state control of airwaves. Media highly polarized. Private media strongly critical of Chávez, supported coup in 2002 and oil lockout in 2002-2003. Public media strongly supportive. Non-renewal of RCTV license widely criticized; decision is constitutional.
Varied Political Parties 77 parties participated in December 2006 election. Chávez wants to consolidate support in one "United Socialist Party," says parties that don't join "can leave."
Freedom of Assembly, Expression, Speech No extralegal retaliation by Chávez after 2002 coup. Political repression much decreased. Freedom to demonstrate highly respected. PROVEA, Venezuelan NGO, reports 4.5% of 1300 demonstrations in 2006 were "repressed, blocked, or obstructed," a 70% decrease from 1997-98.
Private Property Constitutional requirement of payment for nationalization honored. Opposition fears of unpaid expropriation not borne out. 2001 Land Law calls for unused state land and large, unproductive latifundio holdings to be redistributed to campesinos. Government promises to compensate at market rate for land.
Equality Constitution covers gender, rights for the poor, campesinos, and indigenous, but omits race. Tremendous improvements for poor. Society still machista, individualist, and discriminatory. Treatment of non-Chávez supporters questionable: some government institutions do not employ people who supported 2004 Recall Referendum.
Checks and Balances Five independent, autonomous branches of government. Grant of temporary "rule by decree" power criticized by opposition and U.S., but is constitutional; used by at least three other presidents. Chávez criticized for reform of Supreme Court; critics claim court stacking.
Transparency Chávez fairly transparent, but many government officials are not. Little progress curing government and police corruption inherited from past. One of highest crime rates in the world; no improvement under Chávez. Prison conditions still abusive.
Constitution 1999 Constitution written with massive popular participation; passed with 72% support in referendum. Protects human rights and democracy; promotes social justice. Chávez has explicitly followed the Constitution. Constitutional Reform can start in National Assembly or at request of 15% of registered voters.
Economic Human Rights Poverty and unemployment down, minimum wage and social spending up. Venezuela declared itself free of illiteracy in October 2005. Free universal education, including university. Free universal health care and drug rehabilitation. More than 180,000 cooperatives registered since 1998.
Community and Workplace Democracy Chávez requires communities to organize to receive government aid. Co-ops, community councils, and co-managed factories promoted with state incentives. Government encourages endogenous development based on democracy and collective production.
I really have other things I need to attend to right now, if you want to message me, or email me or something I can provide you with much more information. Really, I'm fighting off enough other comments, and I do have some work to do.:)
Article 74: Statutes whose abrogation are requested on the initiative of a number of voters constituting at least 10% of the voters registered in the civil and electoral registry, or by the President* of the Republic taken at a meeting of the Cabinet, shall be submitted to a referendum for its abrogation in whole or in part. Decrees with the force of law issued by the President of the Republic, making use of the authority prescribed under article 236, section 8 of this Constitution, may also be submitted to an abrogatory referendum, when it is requested by a number of voters constituting at least 5% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry. In order for the abrogatory referendum to be valid, a number of voters constituting at least 40% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry shall be essential. It shall not be possible to submit budget laws to an abrogatory referendum, neither those establishing or modifying taxes, relating to public credit, to amnesty, the protection, guaranteeing and developing human rights, nor those which ratify international treaties. There shall not be more than one abrogatory referendum on the same matter during the same constitutional term.
Next..
that he is not renewing the license of an anti-Hugo television station.
What do you want specifically on that one? How they assisted in the coup? I can compile some videos for you but it's going to take some time. The Revolution will not be Televised does a good job, watch that and research this on your own.
Which of these is the red light?
There are tendencies toward dictatorship and democracy. The people are the only ones who can decide what to do, and we know what they think. They support him overwhelmingly.
A television station that does not think Hugo is all sunshine and roses is no longer in service for no good reason I can discover and is being replaced by a government run station.
You omit many facts my friend.
Well, except he does not like the soaps..."He called the station's soap operas "pure poison" that promote capitalism, according to AP."
I agree with him, although I think they should be free to choose what to watch.
I'll have to look into that, I appreciate you posting the video. The only calls for violence I've heard has been from the opposition, and with the coup in 2002 being started by the crazier in the opposition shooting at the opposition to say Chavistas did it, you can understand why I may be skeptical.
The governement that robs Peter to pay Paul can usually count on the support of Paul. Chavez nationalized all sorts of large landownings to redistribute to barrio dwellers (who know little about farming but vote early and often), so Venezuela is undergoing a food crisis (if you grow too much food your land gets taken and becomes unproductive, farms become less productive, so the price increases, so the government puts caps on the price, so farmers grow less food; go to 2)
There are undergoing a food crisis, but they can eat. It is the better level goods, sugar and many meats that are unavailable.
But I would argue the ability for so many more of the people in the Barrios to get food is the cause of the food shortage. When you have to eat with a lot more people, the imports have to increase at the same speed and they are not.
So Chavez is nationalizing many small farms, and changing the goods to be vegetables to feed the revolution. It's quite interesting stuff, BBC had a good documentary on it.
Fascinating. If they had been better at it, presenting opposing viewpoints to their own in a way that make them seem ridiculous (words like "conspiracy theorists believe that [x] and that aliens cloned Elvis so he could kill JFK with a nuclear laser pistol", so that [x] seems preposterous, for instance) rather than denying anything was happening, they might have had more success... scary.
That's why I started studying it. It was almost a success, and the World Bank supported the Carmona government. It was truly very scary.
There are also documents that we assisted, but there are varying degrees of value to them because it's so hard to piece it together from what very little we have from the FOIA.
RCTV's most infamous effort to topple Chavez came during the April 11, 2002, coup attempt against him. For two days before the putsch, RCTV preempted regular programming and ran wall-to-wall coverage of a general strike aimed at ousting Chavez. A stream of commentators spewed nonstop vitriolic attacks against him -- while permitting no response from the government.
Then RCTV ran nonstop ads encouraging people to attend a march on April 11 aimed at toppling Chavez and broadcast blanket coverage of the event. When the march ended in violence, RCTV and Globovision ran manipulated video blaming Chavez supporters for scores of deaths and injuries.
After military rebels overthrew Chavez and he disappeared from public view for two days, RCTV's biased coverage edged fully into sedition. Thousands of Chavez supporters took to the streets to demand his return, but none of that appeared on RCTV or other television stations. RCTV News Director Andres Izarra later testified at National Assembly hearings on the coup attempt that he received an order from superiors at the station: "Zero pro-Chavez, nothing related to Chavez or his supporters.... The idea was to create a climate of transition and to start to promote the dawn of a new country." While the streets of Caracas burned with rage, RCTV ran cartoons, soap operas and old movies such as "Pretty Woman." On April 13, 2002, Granier and other media moguls met in the Miraflores palace to pledge support to the country's coup-installed dictator, Pedro Carmona, who had eliminated the Supreme Court, the National Assembly and the Constitution.
Would a network that aided and abetted a coup against the government be allowed to operate in the United States? The U.S. government probably would have shut down RCTV within five minutes after a failed coup attempt -- and thrown its owners in jail. Chavez's government allowed it to continue operating for five years, and then declined to renew its 20-year license to use the public airwaves. It can still broadcast on cable or via satellite dish.
On the government's side, Venezuela's minister of communication and information, William Lara, cited the many laws RCTV had broken, not least the showing of "pornography" (erotically charged soap opera) during children's TV-watching hours, not to mention participation in the 2002 anti-Chávez coup.
Ah, the pornography charge as well as the other charge. You're correct, my mistake. Both of which were reasons given.
Hey, our president hasn't gotten his approval ratings out of the mid 30 percent range in years, yet we haven't several consecutive days' worth of continually growing protests in our streets. You might want to hold back on that "wide popular support" assertion.
How does that hold to logic at all? You can't compare our protests to theirs. We are sufficiently isolated. They are not.
Do you know anything of Venezuela's protesting? There's an awful lot on it. It's a minority, although the disagreement in the closing for RCTV is a majority. You can look up the polls, I've posted one in another comment.
He isn't blocking RCTV, they will move to satellite and continue to broadcast. They will not be available to lower income levels, but hopefully the new station TVes will still show their views without inciting violence or assassination against a democratically elected government with wide popular support.
Except, wasn't that the later reason? I thought the initial reason given was because they showed soap operas which were offensive to the public moral good.
I've never heard that. RCTV does show a lot of trashy dramas the public loves. That's why the support is so widespread, but I've never heard that as a justification.
And how long before he "doesn't renew" YouTube's license?
He's not killing the station! They are moving to satellite! Why not speak about the facts rationally?
There's an argument to be made about how this is wrong. The opposition should be enabled to speak, if not by RCTV, a private enterprise, but then by TVes. If they cannot communicate on TVes, then that is a real injustice.
Interesting, First is was for showing him in a bad light. Now it is for participating in a Coup.
The opposition came onto RCTV and thanked them for all their help. Marcel Granier told the station not to air anything positive to Chavez that day. They lied about how he resigned, which was the justification used by the military to support the coup.
People quit over these decisions.
I seriously wonder why they people who run that station hasn't been arrested.
Chavez would have had to arrest all of the Private stations, which as you will surely agree is against Freedom of speech. He was waiting for the renewal of RCTV, which the United States has the right to non-renew or provide as well. As do many other places that do it for political reasons that we don't discuss because they are U.S. client states.
But it is a very difficult thing to prove. Watch it yourself, and make up your own mind. The coverage is on youtube.
Ahhh, maybe they didn't participate but rather aired stuff that wasn't favorable to the almighty himself.
So watch the coverage. What do you think based on their lies about him resigning, and their lies about the Chavistas firing on the opposition?
Well, then we are back to the he didn't renew it because they criticized him.
You tell us if you're away of it instead of alluding to it. What are the facts?
I find it extremely ironic that the person who called Bush evil is now Evil and is being protested by the millions in his own country.
A minority, in mostly rich areas, but still important, yes.
The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand and dismiss the fact that this is government censorship.
The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand at television stations assisting in the coup of a democratically elected leader.
Actually, we need to get high and mighty about defending democracy EVERYWHERE. It's not a sometimes kind of thing. Either you have convictions, or you don't.
The conviction that should be defended is freedom of speech here, and it is true the opposition deserves a place to be enabled to speak. I support this, and hopefully TVes the new station will allow the opposition a lot of time to discuss their opinions and views, but not inciting violence against a Democratically elected regime.
The fastest route to bringing Venezuela back to reality is simply to stop buying Citgo products. Dry up the money. Dry up Chavez...
But make sure you understand the situation. It's a worthwhile discussion to have, but I would argue we should be buying Citgo products. Remember, his approval rating is 65% approval. We should be supporting who the people want in power.
Here is the latest from Dataanlisis.
President Chavez's performance in office continues to be viewed positively by nearly two-thirds of the population, despite a 70% rejection of the non-renewal of the TV broadcast license of RCTV, according to the Venezuelan polling firm Datanalisis. Also, a new Latinobarometro poll finds that Latin Americans view Venezuela as the friendliest country in the Americas.
64.7% of Venezuelans viewed Chavez's performance in office positively in March and 29.6% viewed it negatively, explained Datanalisis Director Luis Vicente Leon to Venezuela's foreign press association today. The survey was conducted between March 12 and 23, among 1,300 Venezuelans of all socio-economic levels, with a margin of error of 2.7%.
A breakdown of the population's perception of the country's current situation shows that opinions about Venezuela are still sharply divided along class lines. In the country's upper class--known as "A/B" among Venezuelan demographers--only 38.2% of this group views the country's situation positively. The perception is progressively more positive, the lower people's income, so that in the country's largest and poorest class, known as "E," 68.9% view the country's situation positively.
However, when asked how Venezuelans view their personal situation, an overwhelming majority (over 60%) in all classes view it as positive.
While Chavez continues to enjoy high levels of support, opposition parties are the least respected institutions in the country, with only 26.8% of the population viewing them positively. Among the most favorably viewed institutions are the church, at 80%, and private enterprise, between 75 and 88%, depending on the sector.
With regard to the government's performance in various areas, the most favorable areas were social programs, such as in education, food, and health, with approval ratings of 68.8%, 64.7%, and 64.2% respectively. The government received its lowest score in the area of providing personal security, with a mere 8.4% approval rating.
Another area where the government received a low approval rating was its decision not to renew the broadcast license of the private TV channel RCTV, whose license expires on May 27th. Nearly 70% of Venezuelans disapprove of the decision, while only 16.4% support it. The RCTV survey was conducted separately between April 9 and 16.
According to Leon, RCTV is the country's most popular TV channel and those who watch the channel are much more concerned about losing its soap operas and game shows than its political programming. "Chavez will not come out of this unhurt with regard to his popularity," said Leon and added that this was perhaps the most unpopular decision Chavez has made during his entire presidency.
In other controversial matters, a large majority of Chavez supporters are in favor of the president's effort to create a unified socialist party, with 64.7% indicating approval and only 13.9% opposed. The rest did not indicate their preference.
This Datanalisis survey was financed by subscribers to Datanalisis's newsletter, which goes out to about 300 of Venezuela's main private businesses.
And please don't think I'm defending Chavez himself in any ways, but let's remember that Thatcher refused to renew the license of Thames Television. True, their license was lost for capitalist reasons (not being profitable enough), and RCTV was removed for political reasons, but many would argue that those reasons are not really all that different.
Good point, but it was still wrong in my mind.
Chavez is authoritarian, heavy-handed and a bit megalomaniacal.
There are authoritarian tendencies, and democratic ones. Your statement is too harsh in my mind.
I'm sure you thought that was deep, but dude, put down the stick, exhale, and re-read your lines.
There isn't anything deep about it, it just happens to be true.
You know, like this...
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons--a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million--who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
By the Creator of the Public Relations Industry, and Nephew of Sigmund Freud, Mr. Edward Bernays
Slashdot Mirror
That's a pretty bold statement, got anything to back it up?
The Revolution will not be televised. You can watch it on google video.
Additionally, the broadcasts are located on youtube, tough to find but worth it.
And as always there are many more reports from people actually there. You're going to have to commit your own research project to gain some of this information, but I've given you a start on at least that part.
To be fair to the opposition, you will also here "debunkings". It will be up to you to research and make your own decisions.
Ultimately I disagree with several decisions Chavez has made, but he is hugely popular. It isn't up for us to decide, but the people. He is the first president who has done anything for the poor, and they are quite thrilled. The local councils are very intriguing.
:)
I could say a lot more, but the information is out there to find. Youtube is an excellent resource if you speak the language, or have a translator (thank you friends...
I have a lot of interesting information, I wasn't exactly prepared for a full scale blowout on Slashdot. At least when I'm arguing with the opposition they understand the issues.
Although I have been wrong a few times in this thread, so there you go with that.
Rule by Decree revisited,
e zuela#TITLE_IV_PUBLIC_POWER
Article 74: Statutes whose abrogation are requested on the initiative of a number of voters constituting at least 10% of the voters registered in the civil and electoral registry, or by the President* of the Republic taken at a meeting of the Cabinet, shall be submitted to a referendum for its abrogation in whole or in part. Decrees with the force of law issued by the President of the Republic, making use of the authority prescribed under article 236, section 8 of this Constitution, may also be submitted to an abrogatory referendum, when it is requested by a number of voters constituting at least 5% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry. In order for the abrogatory referendum to be valid, a number of voters constituting at least 40% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry shall be essential. It shall not be possible to submit budget laws to an abrogatory referendum, neither those establishing or modifying taxes, relating to public credit, to amnesty, the protection, guaranteeing and developing human rights, nor those which ratify international treaties. There shall not be more than one abrogatory referendum on the same matter during the same constitutional term.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ven
I always respect your slashdot comments, I have you listed as a friend and enjoy your input, but you are really out of line.
Here we go,
Complaining about it would only make them look like whiners. Is this the best you can do?
Participation
75% of registered voters participated in the December 2006 election. More than 15,000 Communal Councils formed in 2006 that give neighborhoods power to make local decisions. Massive community participation in government social missions.
Free and Fair Elections
Eleven internationally observed national elections in last eight years. Government promotes voter registration. Independent National Electoral Council oversees elections. Standardized voting machines nationwide produce paper trail. Opposition claims of fraud exhaustively investigated. Constitution provides for recall of any elected official.
Freedom of Press
Hundreds of new independent community media outlets. 2005 reform increased state control of airwaves. Media highly polarized. Private media strongly critical of Chávez, supported coup in 2002 and oil lockout in 2002-2003. Public media strongly supportive. Non-renewal of RCTV license widely criticized; decision is constitutional.
Varied Political Parties
77 parties participated in December 2006 election. Chávez wants to consolidate support in one "United Socialist Party," says parties that don't join "can leave."
Freedom of Assembly, Expression, Speech
No extralegal retaliation by Chávez after 2002 coup. Political repression much decreased. Freedom to demonstrate highly respected. PROVEA, Venezuelan NGO, reports 4.5% of 1300 demonstrations in 2006 were "repressed, blocked, or obstructed," a 70% decrease from 1997-98.
Private Property
Constitutional requirement of payment for nationalization honored. Opposition fears of unpaid expropriation not borne out. 2001 Land Law calls for unused state land and large, unproductive latifundio holdings to be redistributed to campesinos. Government promises to compensate at market rate for land.
Equality
Constitution covers gender, rights for the poor, campesinos, and indigenous, but omits race. Tremendous improvements for poor. Society still machista, individualist, and discriminatory. Treatment of non-Chávez supporters questionable: some government institutions do not employ people who supported 2004 Recall Referendum.
Checks and Balances
Five independent, autonomous branches of government. Grant of temporary "rule by decree" power criticized by opposition and U.S., but is constitutional; used by at least three other presidents. Chávez criticized for reform of Supreme Court; critics claim court stacking.
Transparency
Chávez fairly transparent, but many government officials are not. Little progress curing government and police corruption inherited from past. One of highest crime rates in the world; no improvement under Chávez. Prison conditions still abusive.
Constitution
1999 Constitution written with massive popular participation; passed with 72% support in referendum. Protects human rights and democracy; promotes social justice. Chávez has explicitly followed the Constitution. Constitutional Reform can start in National Assembly or at request of 15% of registered voters.
Economic Human Rights
Poverty and unemployment down, minimum wage and social spending up. Venezuela declared itself free of illiteracy in October 2005. Free universal education, including university. Free universal health care and drug rehabilitation. More than 180,000 cooperatives registered since 1998.
Community and Workplace Democracy
Chávez requires communities to organize to receive government aid. Co-ops, community councils, and co-managed factories promoted with state incentives. Government encourages endogenous development based on democracy and collective production.
Original source / relevant link:
Yes! Magazine
What the FUCK are you talking about? What drug
Here are some documents, http://www.venezuelafoia.info/english.html
:)
I really have other things I need to attend to right now, if you want to message me, or email me or something I can provide you with much more information. Really, I'm fighting off enough other comments, and I do have some work to do.
You got the rating, now where is the informative reference? Newspaper articles? Historical accounts? Can you please supply a link?
e zuela
To what specifically? You ask, I will provide.
I want to know, because should I be worried that he is trying to get his term limits removed
Yes, that is definitely a tendency towards Dictatorship. The people will need to fight that.
that he can currently rule by decree
Well, the Venezuelan Constitution is clear on that.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ven
Article 74: Statutes whose abrogation are requested on the initiative of a number of voters constituting at least 10% of the voters registered in the civil and electoral registry, or by the President* of the Republic taken at a meeting of the Cabinet, shall be submitted to a referendum for its abrogation in whole or in part. Decrees with the force of law issued by the President of the Republic, making use of the authority prescribed under article 236, section 8 of this Constitution, may also be submitted to an abrogatory referendum, when it is requested by a number of voters constituting at least 5% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry. In order for the abrogatory referendum to be valid, a number of voters constituting at least 40% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry shall be essential. It shall not be possible to submit budget laws to an abrogatory referendum, neither those establishing or modifying taxes, relating to public credit, to amnesty, the protection, guaranteeing and developing human rights, nor those which ratify international treaties. There shall not be more than one abrogatory referendum on the same matter during the same constitutional term.
Next..
that he is not renewing the license of an anti-Hugo television station.
What do you want specifically on that one? How they assisted in the coup? I can compile some videos for you but it's going to take some time. The Revolution will not be Televised does a good job, watch that and research this on your own.
Which of these is the red light?
There are tendencies toward dictatorship and democracy. The people are the only ones who can decide what to do, and we know what they think. They support him overwhelmingly.
A television station that does not think Hugo is all sunshine and roses is no longer in service for no good reason I can discover and is being replaced by a government run station.
You omit many facts my friend.
Well, except he does not like the soaps..."He called the station's soap operas "pure poison" that promote capitalism, according to AP."
I agree with him, although I think they should be free to choose what to watch.
I'll have to look into that, I appreciate you posting the video. The only calls for violence I've heard has been from the opposition, and with the coup in 2002 being started by the crazier in the opposition shooting at the opposition to say Chavistas did it, you can understand why I may be skeptical.
Thank you.
The governement that robs Peter to pay Paul can usually count on the support of Paul. Chavez nationalized all sorts of large landownings to redistribute to barrio dwellers (who know little about farming but vote early and often), so Venezuela is undergoing a food crisis (if you grow too much food your land gets taken and becomes unproductive, farms become less productive, so the price increases, so the government puts caps on the price, so farmers grow less food; go to 2)
There are undergoing a food crisis, but they can eat. It is the better level goods, sugar and many meats that are unavailable.
But I would argue the ability for so many more of the people in the Barrios to get food is the cause of the food shortage. When you have to eat with a lot more people, the imports have to increase at the same speed and they are not.
So Chavez is nationalizing many small farms, and changing the goods to be vegetables to feed the revolution. It's quite interesting stuff, BBC had a good documentary on it.
Fascinating. If they had been better at it, presenting opposing viewpoints to their own in a way that make them seem ridiculous (words like "conspiracy theorists believe that [x] and that aliens cloned Elvis so he could kill JFK with a nuclear laser pistol", so that [x] seems preposterous, for instance) rather than denying anything was happening, they might have had more success... scary.
That's why I started studying it. It was almost a success, and the World Bank supported the Carmona government. It was truly very scary.
There are also documents that we assisted, but there are varying degrees of value to them because it's so hard to piece it together from what very little we have from the FOIA.
I could post some if you care.
Very true,
o =2054 although there are many voices of this, including watching the actual broadcasts which you can do on... Youtube!
RCTV's most infamous effort to topple Chavez came during the April 11, 2002, coup attempt against him. For two days before the putsch, RCTV preempted regular programming and ran wall-to-wall coverage of a general strike aimed at ousting Chavez. A stream of commentators spewed nonstop vitriolic attacks against him -- while permitting no response from the government.
Then RCTV ran nonstop ads encouraging people to attend a march on April 11 aimed at toppling Chavez and broadcast blanket coverage of the event. When the march ended in violence, RCTV and Globovision ran manipulated video blaming Chavez supporters for scores of deaths and injuries.
After military rebels overthrew Chavez and he disappeared from public view for two days, RCTV's biased coverage edged fully into sedition. Thousands of Chavez supporters took to the streets to demand his return, but none of that appeared on RCTV or other television stations. RCTV News Director Andres Izarra later testified at National Assembly hearings on the coup attempt that he received an order from superiors at the station: "Zero pro-Chavez, nothing related to Chavez or his supporters.... The idea was to create a climate of transition and to start to promote the dawn of a new country." While the streets of Caracas burned with rage, RCTV ran cartoons, soap operas and old movies such as "Pretty Woman." On April 13, 2002, Granier and other media moguls met in the Miraflores palace to pledge support to the country's coup-installed dictator, Pedro Carmona, who had eliminated the Supreme Court, the National Assembly and the Constitution.
Would a network that aided and abetted a coup against the government be allowed to operate in the United States? The U.S. government probably would have shut down RCTV within five minutes after a failed coup attempt -- and thrown its owners in jail. Chavez's government allowed it to continue operating for five years, and then declined to renew its 20-year license to use the public airwaves. It can still broadcast on cable or via satellite dish.
From http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artn
that's assuming that they were legitimately democratically elected, unlike say our president for two elections running.
Not even the opposition charges that he isn't legitimate. He is widely popular from polls, as well as the many elections he's won.
On the government's side, Venezuela's minister of communication and information, William Lara, cited the many laws RCTV had broken, not least the showing of "pornography" (erotically charged soap opera) during children's TV-watching hours, not to mention participation in the 2002 anti-Chávez coup.
Ah, the pornography charge as well as the other charge. You're correct, my mistake. Both of which were reasons given.
Thank you for the clarification.
Hey, our president hasn't gotten his approval ratings out of the mid 30 percent range in years, yet we haven't several consecutive days' worth of continually growing protests in our streets. You might want to hold back on that "wide popular support" assertion.
How does that hold to logic at all? You can't compare our protests to theirs. We are sufficiently isolated. They are not.
Do you know anything of Venezuela's protesting? There's an awful lot on it. It's a minority, although the disagreement in the closing for RCTV is a majority. You can look up the polls, I've posted one in another comment.
I think that RCTV was smart by using Youtube to get their message out after they were forced to shut down.
Chavistas are using the internet as well, like this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vryo4U-NZvc
The mayor of Caracas calling for violent protest against the closing of RCTV.
How long before Venezuela blocks YouTube?
He isn't blocking RCTV, they will move to satellite and continue to broadcast. They will not be available to lower income levels, but hopefully the new station TVes will still show their views without inciting violence or assassination against a democratically elected government with wide popular support.
Except, wasn't that the later reason? I thought the initial reason given was because they showed soap operas which were offensive to the public moral good.
I've never heard that. RCTV does show a lot of trashy dramas the public loves. That's why the support is so widespread, but I've never heard that as a justification.
Sources?
And how long before he "doesn't renew" YouTube's license?
He's not killing the station! They are moving to satellite! Why not speak about the facts rationally?
There's an argument to be made about how this is wrong. The opposition should be enabled to speak, if not by RCTV, a private enterprise, but then by TVes. If they cannot communicate on TVes, then that is a real injustice.
Interesting, First is was for showing him in a bad light. Now it is for participating in a Coup.
The opposition came onto RCTV and thanked them for all their help. Marcel Granier told the station not to air anything positive to Chavez that day. They lied about how he resigned, which was the justification used by the military to support the coup.
People quit over these decisions.
I seriously wonder why they people who run that station hasn't been arrested.
Chavez would have had to arrest all of the Private stations, which as you will surely agree is against Freedom of speech. He was waiting for the renewal of RCTV, which the United States has the right to non-renew or provide as well. As do many other places that do it for political reasons that we don't discuss because they are U.S. client states.
But it is a very difficult thing to prove. Watch it yourself, and make up your own mind. The coverage is on youtube.
Ahhh, maybe they didn't participate but rather aired stuff that wasn't favorable to the almighty himself.
So watch the coverage. What do you think based on their lies about him resigning, and their lies about the Chavistas firing on the opposition?
Well, then we are back to the he didn't renew it because they criticized him.
You tell us if you're away of it instead of alluding to it. What are the facts?
I find it extremely ironic that the person who called Bush evil is now Evil and is being protested by the millions in his own country.
A minority, in mostly rich areas, but still important, yes.
The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand and dismiss the fact that this is government censorship.
The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand at television stations assisting in the coup of a democratically elected leader.
Actually, we need to get high and mighty about defending democracy EVERYWHERE. It's not a sometimes kind of thing. Either you have convictions, or you don't.
The conviction that should be defended is freedom of speech here, and it is true the opposition deserves a place to be enabled to speak. I support this, and hopefully TVes the new station will allow the opposition a lot of time to discuss their opinions and views, but not inciting violence against a Democratically elected regime.
I have been watching many of the videos on Youtube.
If anyone wants to see some interesting ones, I have them. This one is particularly interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vryo4U-NZvc
The fastest route to bringing Venezuela back to reality is simply to stop buying Citgo products. Dry up the money. Dry up Chavez...
But make sure you understand the situation. It's a worthwhile discussion to have, but I would argue we should be buying Citgo products. Remember, his approval rating is 65% approval. We should be supporting who the people want in power.
Here is the latest from Dataanlisis.
President Chavez's performance in office continues to be viewed positively by nearly two-thirds of the population, despite a 70% rejection of the non-renewal of the TV broadcast license of RCTV, according to the Venezuelan polling firm Datanalisis. Also, a new Latinobarometro poll finds that Latin Americans view Venezuela as the friendliest country in the Americas.
64.7% of Venezuelans viewed Chavez's performance in office positively in March and 29.6% viewed it negatively, explained Datanalisis Director Luis Vicente Leon to Venezuela's foreign press association today. The survey was conducted between March 12 and 23, among 1,300 Venezuelans of all socio-economic levels, with a margin of error of 2.7%.
A breakdown of the population's perception of the country's current situation shows that opinions about Venezuela are still sharply divided along class lines. In the country's upper class--known as "A/B" among Venezuelan demographers--only 38.2% of this group views the country's situation positively. The perception is progressively more positive, the lower people's income, so that in the country's largest and poorest class, known as "E," 68.9% view the country's situation positively.
However, when asked how Venezuelans view their personal situation, an overwhelming majority (over 60%) in all classes view it as positive.
While Chavez continues to enjoy high levels of support, opposition parties are the least respected institutions in the country, with only 26.8% of the population viewing them positively. Among the most favorably viewed institutions are the church, at 80%, and private enterprise, between 75 and 88%, depending on the sector.
With regard to the government's performance in various areas, the most favorable areas were social programs, such as in education, food, and health, with approval ratings of 68.8%, 64.7%, and 64.2% respectively. The government received its lowest score in the area of providing personal security, with a mere 8.4% approval rating.
Another area where the government received a low approval rating was its decision not to renew the broadcast license of the private TV channel RCTV, whose license expires on May 27th. Nearly 70% of Venezuelans disapprove of the decision, while only 16.4% support it. The RCTV survey was conducted separately between April 9 and 16.
According to Leon, RCTV is the country's most popular TV channel and those who watch the channel are much more concerned about losing its soap operas and game shows than its political programming. "Chavez will not come out of this unhurt with regard to his popularity," said Leon and added that this was perhaps the most unpopular decision Chavez has made during his entire presidency.
In other controversial matters, a large majority of Chavez supporters are in favor of the president's effort to create a unified socialist party, with 64.7% indicating approval and only 13.9% opposed. The rest did not indicate their preference.
This Datanalisis survey was financed by subscribers to Datanalisis's newsletter, which goes out to about 300 of Venezuela's main private businesses.
And please don't think I'm defending Chavez himself in any ways, but let's remember that Thatcher refused to renew the license of Thames Television. True, their license was lost for capitalist reasons (not being profitable enough), and RCTV was removed for political reasons, but many would argue that those reasons are not really all that different.
Good point, but it was still wrong in my mind.
Chavez is authoritarian, heavy-handed and a bit megalomaniacal.
There are authoritarian tendencies, and democratic ones. Your statement is too harsh in my mind.
I was always told that the revolution would not be televised.
:)
5 689805144
Well, isn't that an interesting statement
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=583239054
The movie a Revolution will not be televised about the April 2002 coup.
he'd be the guy who shut down the live television channel
You mean, didn't renew the license of the station that assisted in the coup of April 2002.
I'm sure you thought that was deep, but dude, put down the stick, exhale, and re-read your lines.
There isn't anything deep about it, it just happens to be true.
You know, like this...
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons--a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million--who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
By the Creator of the Public Relations Industry, and Nephew of Sigmund Freud, Mr. Edward Bernays