2) The definition of "tiny" is up for debate, but in this case most people refer to The Netherlands as "small". It's about twice the size of New Jersey, both in landmass and population.
I'm more of a Gonie than an American- a state even twice the size of New Jersey seems laughably small to those of us out here on the West Coast. But my real point is- radio waves do not respect borders....
As in the low country of Europe. It won't matter one whit to their TV users- it's a tiny country and there are plenty of other analog signals still coming in from Germany, Denmark, France and England.
Have you dropped a sinble nuke the USSR would have sent you back to the sotne age.
USSR's rockets only had a 20% successfull launch rate- the ones blowing up on the pad would have won that war for us.
And all of us. And them
If we had done so *before* Russia had stolen our nuclear weapon plans in 1954, we would have stayed on top.
Which is why the US did not do it in the first place.
And because of that, Russia's now paying at least as big, or bigger, price than we are because they too are infidels and cowards in the point of view of the people who now control events.
People moving jobs mean they are free to do whatever they want,
Unless they were already doing whatever they wanted to do, in which case you've just forced them into doing something they don't want to do to keep body and soul together.
they no longer have to stay in a job that is not of their liking for whatever reason.
Unless, of course, the job that they were doing to begin with was what they wanted to do, until it was outsourced- in which case they just might figure their next best job is suidcide bomber.
I fail to see how this is a bad development.
Only because you've never actually been satisfied with the job you were doing.
Not really worth buying until they were designed and made in Taiwan- all of these companies now use parts from elsewhere.
airplanes (Cessna, Boing, Lokheed),
Who all just assemble planes from parts made in Japan and China.
movies (gasp, Hollywood),
Which has been taping in Canada for the last couple of decades because American movie sets are too expensive.
music (RIAA!)
I'll give you music- but it's not exactly MANUFACTURING, more of an ART- and even then the cheapest way to get your CD cut is to ship the MP3s elsewhere.
weapons
Smith & Wesson's chief factory is in Shanghai.
software (Oracle, Microsoft, Google, Sybase)
Bangalore and Hydrabad and Chennai. Sybase isn't even an AMERICAN company, they're CANADIAN.
network hardware (Cisco, Lucent)
Fled for the welcoming shores of Singapore long ago.
web-services (EBay, Amazon).
Ok, they're here, but they're not American only- they've got data centers all over the world now. Geographic backup is important for user experience.
Enough for you? All of this is made in America with only some of the most routine and least interesting bits outsourced to other countries.
Not a single thing you mentioned, except for music, is actually Made in America- and the routine and least interesting bits are what provide the factory jobs to have a middle class to sell to. Henry Ford realized that with the Model T and a company-wide minimum wage that assured that his factory workers could afford to drive Model Ts- it seems modern America has forgotten that.
And only because they aren't good enough yet...
Ah, yes, the common complaint of the cheap labor movement: Americans are too stupid to do the routine bits, so we have to outsource them.
Not that there is anything wrong with being "packaged in America".
Except for one small thing- patriotism is missing.
Haven't you heard? Bush (aka president pubes) is finished. You can't talk like that anymore. The world is returning to sanity.
If by "sanity" you mean witnessing and living with the effects of the Islamic Reformation going through their own version of the 30 years war, then you're right.
Not tht Bush would have made any difference at all in that- he's too big of a coward to do what it would take to save Iraq, let alone the rest of the world, from the Islamic Reformation. For that, the United States would need to pick a side, stick by that side, and hope that eventually that side would sell us oil again after the war is over. As opposed to only being on our own side, and fighting for whatever side has the oil currently even when that means we're supporting opposing sects in the Reformation and supplying guns to both sides.
Exactly. And thus, the correct tactic for ending war is to attack the politicians responsible rather than the opposing army or the civilians. Which is why instead of sending bin Laden's relatives home after 9-11, we should have kept them for hostages and publically executed one a day until we found one he actually cared enough about to surrender for.
We the world failed to stop buying crappy USian products. And now every USian thinks they are the world. If we had left the US an economic disaster instead of an economic powerhouse, they wouldn't have been bullying anyone.
When, in the last 40 years, has America made a product worth buying? Everything stamped "Made in America" should really be stamped "Packaged in America".
You make a lot of assumptions based on very little information. First the small startup I work for would be out of money by now if we had used US or European resources. (Great idea but not a whole lot of funding.)
That's something that really always bothered me. I did make the *wrong* assumption that you worked for a larger company- but the general trend is towards providing not enough funds for R&D as is, and this general trend just means that there will be LESS funding available. Capitalism sucks at R&D near as I can tell.
As for me- I've bailed. I've now accepted a civil service job because I can't handle having to compete with people who earn less than $10/hr.
I'm in state government- I'd say I'm paid at perhaps 75% of what I'd be making in private industry. But I've got a kid with cerebral palsy- I need the health insurance.
It's apparently not hell enough- if war was hell enough everybody would be so afraid of it that nobody would ever offend anybody else enough to start one. Which is why I'm FOR the use of nukes.
Not enough- we failed to leave nukes behind. And so now every piss-poor terrorist thinks we're soft. If we had left Vietnam a smoking ruin instead of a functional government, we wouldn't have to compete with them now AND we would have had a precident for any other revolution.
Then you've got the wrong login name. It should be The Ugly Free Traitor, as you've given up on being American.
If a candidate has been with his or her previous employer for less than a year, they better have a good reason or I'll pass.
And you think "You pay more" is not a good reason, despite the fact that by going to Bangalore you obviously think that profit means more than loyalty? How incredibly hypocritical.
If they've jumped to a couple jobs are more in the last year, forget it. I won't waste my time.
So, to sum it up, you want the cheapest costs you can get (else you wouldn't be bothering with Bangalore in the first place) but if the stupid dot heads actually try to stick up for themselves and jump jobs to get better pay, you'll dump them like a hot potato. Actually, I take it back- you're completely consistent in your own self-interest.
Well, I find that odd because where I live it's about impossible to get a civil service position due to good bennies.. but I don't doubt you.
Good bennies- but I can see their point about the rest of the compensation being pretty rotten- especially since (I'm the new guy so I didn't have to go through this) they had a wage step freeze for the past 4 years.
But turnover is the real project killer. But what did they expect? Worker Loyalty after they proved that they had no loyalty? The strange part though is how this infects EVERYTHING- I moved to government for stability, but my sub-sub-department of application developers has a 26% annual turnover rate; for the simple reason that in America we've destroyed the loyalty of the workforce! Now we're doing the same in India. If you treat people like widgets, expect them to act like widgets- and move to the most ecconomically efficient place for them to be.
They lost in excess of 3 million dollars. That's not "poor baby" money. Their customers were hurt; their reputation was damaged.
Money is a myth- it's not like they lost any LIVES. Get a grip and get some perspective, guys. You failed to do your due dilligence and you paid for it. Financial dealings in a chaotic market are not the end-all-be-all of the universe.
Oh, poor babies. Unable to make trades, whatever will they do?. I swear, the banking industry sure has an inflated sense of self. They got what they deserve for their arrogance.
And there's been aircraft carriers, too. Do we need to worry about the al qieda fighter jets, too?
Possibly. Which is why we've been cutting off their bank accounts whenever we find them.
You don't think the Russians worry about Al-Qieda?
Why should they? Al Qaida beat them 12 years ago and they haven't had a problem since they did what Al Qaida wanted (Get out of Afghanistan!).
While vigilance about border security is likely a good thing, I personally think you've leapt over "vigilance" and straight into Clancy-inspired paranoia.
I'll believe we have good border security again when nobody can get in or out without passing through customs with pre-verified RFID tags. I'm very paranoid- because I'm Roman Catholic and know my history. The world blames us for the Crusades, but never asks what political situation led up to the Crusades.
You wanted wealth fairly distributed & I wanted to know if you wanted beauty, talent fairly distributed as well.
It already is for those with the spiritual eyes to see. Either all human beings are equally valuable, or the whole race is doomed to sin and destruction.
Well, setting aside your dubious assessment of US coastal patrol capabilities for the moment, it's a pretty long way from buying old freighters to buying military vessels. Anyone with the right amount of money can do the former, the latter is a wee bit harder.
Not THAT much harder. I've seen MiGs on Ebay.
After all, the Russians don't exactly want their subversive elements using their old hardware against them.
We're talking al Qaida, not the Chechnyans.
I'd wager that the Tamil Tiger navy is a far more effective military force than this so-called "navy".
Possibly- but right now I've got grave doubts about US border security and the effectiveness of the US Military in general do do anything at all.
I'm just pointing out that offshoring everything (in some cases, including design, I think I pointed out that Cisco IP Telephony research was being done in Chennai) might just be a bad idea. I'm well aware of the magnet situation- as well as the resistor problem and the capacitor problem (one of which really bit us recently thanks to a Taiwanese motherboard manufacturer who had pirated his electrolyte recipie).
As for your WWII airplane example- given the threat posed by Islamic Fascism, we should have been doing that 5 years ago. The political will to actually manufacture our own gear just isn't there anymore- nobody's left to be patriotic.
Slashdot Mirror
2) The definition of "tiny" is up for debate, but in this case most people refer to The Netherlands as "small". It's about twice the size of New Jersey, both in landmass and population.
I'm more of a Gonie than an American- a state even twice the size of New Jersey seems laughably small to those of us out here on the West Coast. But my real point is- radio waves do not respect borders....
As in the low country of Europe. It won't matter one whit to their TV users- it's a tiny country and there are plenty of other analog signals still coming in from Germany, Denmark, France and England.
Have you dropped a sinble nuke the USSR would have sent you back to the sotne age.
USSR's rockets only had a 20% successfull launch rate- the ones blowing up on the pad would have won that war for us.
And all of us. And them
If we had done so *before* Russia had stolen our nuclear weapon plans in 1954, we would have stayed on top.
Which is why the US did not do it in the first place.
And because of that, Russia's now paying at least as big, or bigger, price than we are because they too are infidels and cowards in the point of view of the people who now control events.
People moving jobs mean they are free to do whatever they want,
Unless they were already doing whatever they wanted to do, in which case you've just forced them into doing something they don't want to do to keep body and soul together.
they no longer have to stay in a job that is not of their liking for whatever reason.
Unless, of course, the job that they were doing to begin with was what they wanted to do, until it was outsourced- in which case they just might figure their next best job is suidcide bomber.
I fail to see how this is a bad development.
Only because you've never actually been satisfied with the job you were doing.
Computers (Intel, IBM, AMD, Sun, SGI, Compaq, HP, Digital),
Not really worth buying until they were designed and made in Taiwan- all of these companies now use parts from elsewhere.
airplanes (Cessna, Boing, Lokheed),
Who all just assemble planes from parts made in Japan and China.
movies (gasp, Hollywood),
Which has been taping in Canada for the last couple of decades because American movie sets are too expensive.
music (RIAA!)
I'll give you music- but it's not exactly MANUFACTURING, more of an ART- and even then the cheapest way to get your CD cut is to ship the MP3s elsewhere.
weapons
Smith & Wesson's chief factory is in Shanghai.
software (Oracle, Microsoft, Google, Sybase)
Bangalore and Hydrabad and Chennai. Sybase isn't even an AMERICAN company, they're CANADIAN.
network hardware (Cisco, Lucent)
Fled for the welcoming shores of Singapore long ago.
web-services (EBay, Amazon).
Ok, they're here, but they're not American only- they've got data centers all over the world now. Geographic backup is important for user experience.
Enough for you? All of this is made in America with only some of the most routine and least interesting bits outsourced to other countries.
Not a single thing you mentioned, except for music, is actually Made in America- and the routine and least interesting bits are what provide the factory jobs to have a middle class to sell to. Henry Ford realized that with the Model T and a company-wide minimum wage that assured that his factory workers could afford to drive Model Ts- it seems modern America has forgotten that.
And only because they aren't good enough yet...
Ah, yes, the common complaint of the cheap labor movement: Americans are too stupid to do the routine bits, so we have to outsource them.
Not that there is anything wrong with being "packaged in America".
Except for one small thing- patriotism is missing.
Haven't you heard? Bush (aka president pubes) is finished. You can't talk like that anymore. The world is returning to sanity.
If by "sanity" you mean witnessing and living with the effects of the Islamic Reformation going through their own version of the 30 years war, then you're right.
Not tht Bush would have made any difference at all in that- he's too big of a coward to do what it would take to save Iraq, let alone the rest of the world, from the Islamic Reformation. For that, the United States would need to pick a side, stick by that side, and hope that eventually that side would sell us oil again after the war is over. As opposed to only being on our own side, and fighting for whatever side has the oil currently even when that means we're supporting opposing sects in the Reformation and supplying guns to both sides.
Thank you- I hadn't seen those before. Isn't it strange that the only way to buy American in clothes is on the internet?
Yep- the Gatling Gun was the first WMD.
Exactly. And thus, the correct tactic for ending war is to attack the politicians responsible rather than the opposing army or the civilians. Which is why instead of sending bin Laden's relatives home after 9-11, we should have kept them for hostages and publically executed one a day until we found one he actually cared enough about to surrender for.
We the world failed to stop buying crappy USian products. And now every USian thinks they are the world. If we had left the US an economic disaster instead of an economic powerhouse, they wouldn't have been bullying anyone.
When, in the last 40 years, has America made a product worth buying? Everything stamped "Made in America" should really be stamped "Packaged in America".
You make a lot of assumptions based on very little information. First the small startup I work for would be out of money by now if we had used US or European resources. (Great idea but not a whole lot of funding.)
That's something that really always bothered me. I did make the *wrong* assumption that you worked for a larger company- but the general trend is towards providing not enough funds for R&D as is, and this general trend just means that there will be LESS funding available. Capitalism sucks at R&D near as I can tell.
As for me- I've bailed. I've now accepted a civil service job because I can't handle having to compete with people who earn less than $10/hr.
I'm in state government- I'd say I'm paid at perhaps 75% of what I'd be making in private industry. But I've got a kid with cerebral palsy- I need the health insurance.
It's apparently not hell enough- if war was hell enough everybody would be so afraid of it that nobody would ever offend anybody else enough to start one. Which is why I'm FOR the use of nukes.
Parent deserves a ( -5 asshole ) mod.
Too freakin' bad, free traitor. I call them like I see them; outsourcers deserve no better.
Not enough- we failed to leave nukes behind. And so now every piss-poor terrorist thinks we're soft. If we had left Vietnam a smoking ruin instead of a functional government, we wouldn't have to compete with them now AND we would have had a precident for any other revolution.
I maintain a development team in Bangalore.
Then you've got the wrong login name. It should be The Ugly Free Traitor, as you've given up on being American.
If a candidate has been with his or her previous employer for less than a year, they better have a good reason or I'll pass.
And you think "You pay more" is not a good reason, despite the fact that by going to Bangalore you obviously think that profit means more than loyalty? How incredibly hypocritical.
If they've jumped to a couple jobs are more in the last year, forget it. I won't waste my time.
So, to sum it up, you want the cheapest costs you can get (else you wouldn't be bothering with Bangalore in the first place) but if the stupid dot heads actually try to stick up for themselves and jump jobs to get better pay, you'll dump them like a hot potato. Actually, I take it back- you're completely consistent in your own self-interest.
Well, I find that odd because where I live it's about impossible to get a civil service position due to good bennies.. but I don't doubt you.
Good bennies- but I can see their point about the rest of the compensation being pretty rotten- especially since (I'm the new guy so I didn't have to go through this) they had a wage step freeze for the past 4 years.
But turnover is the real project killer. But what did they expect? Worker Loyalty after they proved that they had no loyalty? The strange part though is how this infects EVERYTHING- I moved to government for stability, but my sub-sub-department of application developers has a 26% annual turnover rate; for the simple reason that in America we've destroyed the loyalty of the workforce! Now we're doing the same in India. If you treat people like widgets, expect them to act like widgets- and move to the most ecconomically efficient place for them to be.
Yes, but it's not like lives are at stake- these things happen, and should be taken in stride.
They lost in excess of 3 million dollars. That's not "poor baby" money. Their customers were hurt; their reputation was damaged.
Money is a myth- it's not like they lost any LIVES. Get a grip and get some perspective, guys. You failed to do your due dilligence and you paid for it. Financial dealings in a chaotic market are not the end-all-be-all of the universe.
Oh, poor babies. Unable to make trades, whatever will they do?. I swear, the banking industry sure has an inflated sense of self. They got what they deserve for their arrogance.
And there's been aircraft carriers, too. Do we need to worry about the al qieda fighter jets, too?
Possibly. Which is why we've been cutting off their bank accounts whenever we find them.
You don't think the Russians worry about Al-Qieda?
Why should they? Al Qaida beat them 12 years ago and they haven't had a problem since they did what Al Qaida wanted (Get out of Afghanistan!).
While vigilance about border security is likely a good thing, I personally think you've leapt over "vigilance" and straight into Clancy-inspired paranoia.
I'll believe we have good border security again when nobody can get in or out without passing through customs with pre-verified RFID tags. I'm very paranoid- because I'm Roman Catholic and know my history. The world blames us for the Crusades, but never asks what political situation led up to the Crusades.
You wanted wealth fairly distributed & I wanted to know if you wanted beauty, talent fairly distributed as well.
It already is for those with the spiritual eyes to see. Either all human beings are equally valuable, or the whole race is doomed to sin and destruction.
Well, setting aside your dubious assessment of US coastal patrol capabilities for the moment, it's a pretty long way from buying old freighters to buying military vessels. Anyone with the right amount of money can do the former, the latter is a wee bit harder.
Not THAT much harder. I've seen MiGs on Ebay.
After all, the Russians don't exactly want their subversive elements using their old hardware against them.
We're talking al Qaida, not the Chechnyans.
I'd wager that the Tamil Tiger navy is a far more effective military force than this so-called "navy".
Possibly- but right now I've got grave doubts about US border security and the effectiveness of the US Military in general do do anything at all.
I'm just pointing out that offshoring everything (in some cases, including design, I think I pointed out that Cisco IP Telephony research was being done in Chennai) might just be a bad idea. I'm well aware of the magnet situation- as well as the resistor problem and the capacitor problem (one of which really bit us recently thanks to a Taiwanese motherboard manufacturer who had pirated his electrolyte recipie).
As for your WWII airplane example- given the threat posed by Islamic Fascism, we should have been doing that 5 years ago. The political will to actually manufacture our own gear just isn't there anymore- nobody's left to be patriotic.