The 1000 multiple point is in regards to that there are other positions in the world other than top corporate CEOs that make mega bucks. Its clear that in sports, etc. there are a few that are somewhat "worth" their extra cost. Sports teams are willing to pay a premium for that extra-good player.
And I say such an attitude is elitist, and angainst the American Constitution, which claims that all are equal and are to be treated equally. Capitalism itself is anti-American and discriminatory in the extreme- originally racist, but now elitist. It needs to be replaced if we are ever going to actually achieve freedom.
Labor will be more in surplus if the government decides what people should buy and where people should work. When the government decides more, people decide less. Easy equation.
But not a very truthfull equation when one option for government is to maximize employment instead of profit.
Well, I can't argue for those who are greedy. If you say all are greedy and dark in heart, why trust a few government officials (often easily the most corrupt of people). If you say everyone is like that when they are born, I agree with you:). It takes a supernatural change of heart for people to do good.
Right now- it's become quite obvious that it's the corporate world, not the governmental world, that is the most easily coruptable. And it's easy to see why- we've set up the system to reward evil behavior and punish good behavior. NONE of this has anything to do with being born evil or with God- it has to do with the economic system that humans invented and humans can change at will.
I don't dispute CEO / co-founder statistics. The average basketball superstar probably earns 1000 times minimum wage.
True enough- and I see the NBA as a microcosm of what's going on in the business world- the worst, most individualistic players are paid the highest, and those who are honored just to be on the team and who are true team players, are paid the worst. The question is why any logical economic system would allow such a large discrepancy between basically interchangable parts to begin with- and whether it is right to do so.
Well, you'll probably still have that for a while - the big bosses paying themselves generously. But like I said, the most efficient company will win at the end.
Not the way the system is currently set up- the most efficient company will be put out of business by the least efficient company making the most efficient methods illegal by bribing the politicians with campaign contributions.
A nuclear missile doesn't have to be extremely complex- or high quality- to do a lot of damage. A little C-4 and a centrifuge goes a long way in that technology.
Also, since the rest of the world looks down upon countries spreading nukes, I don't think China will be selling nukes or nuke capable missle technology any time soon.
My understanding is that they already are- to Pakistan, who in turn markets to whoever wants the technology. MAD only works if you're willing to go through with the destruction- and since nobody is, the field is wide open for terrorists to take over.
Management is unnecessary, for the most part- assemble a team who actually knows how to do their jobs and who WANTS to work towards a goal, and you don't need any management at all.
Really? What? Go to WalMart some time and just *try* to find a product Made in America. Try to find a TV set Made in America. A car where all the components were Made in America. A refridgerator Made in America. A shirt or pants Made in America. NONE of these things are Made in America anymore- assembled here from foreign parts sources, sometimes (automobile industry does this). Packaged in America- sure. But what's hidden in those factory output numbers is that nothing is actually MADE here anymore.
I'd love to hire you- if I had the $500/hr myself to pay you I would, instead I have to mow my lawn myself. I have no problem with hiring people at the same rate I earn, $20/hr, to save me equivalent time, however, and do whenever I can afford to. I certainly would not lower my rate and lose money- and neither would I expect it of anybody else.
Value to stockholders is worthless if it causes the country those stockholders live in to fall to violent revolution- and I have no doubt that's where the economy of the United States and the evil of the NYSE is heading.
I had plenty of choices of where to work. Granted, not as many as I would have in the dot-com days, but I was by no means beholden to any particular place.
Lucky you- a dilligent search while I was unemployed proved to me that only government was still hiring- 2,600 resumes out, only one successfull job search.
Wow, you must have had some pretty crappy jobs to make such a generalization. It certainly hasn't been the case for me.
Possible, but with the fatal flaw in the stock market, not probable. That flaw being the quarterly report. It's killed every project that I've worked on since graduating from college.
People who are harder to replace tend to get higher salaries. What's your point?
Lying MBAs are a dime a dozen- they aren't that hard to replace, nobody is.
The salary a typical CEO makes it only a small fraction of the total amount a company makes. It's generally well worth it, considering how much a good CEO affects a company's performance.
Every CEO I've ever seen that was paid that much was affecting performance negatively merely by soaking up money that could be better used for new research and development or to actually pay the workers a living wage.
Perhaps you should lookup the effects of that many nukes going off at once. I would not be that good for the USA as a lot of the lighter fallout would make it to the USA.
The fallout can be engineered out of the system if you use the correct fissionable materials- simply by having half-lifes in the resulting radiation so short as to be meaningless by the time the fallout gets halfway around the world.
Research Nuclear war before you speak on the subject again as your use of the term 'carpet bombing' in relation to nuclear weapons shows your ignorance.
I have- apparently far more than you if you still think fallout from US weapons has a half life of more than 6 days.
Job market alone shows that Wages Sink- because jobs move to the lowest possible wage COUNTRY. We have the fewest people working as a percentage of the population since 1933- when you add up the unemployed that the federal government has moved to the DISABLED and DISPLACED roles to hide their numbers. By far, in the 1950s when you could count on a college-to-retirement job, and could actually sign a 30 year mortgage with a hope of paying it off instead of becoming homeless and losing your investment, you were better off. Regardless of what the fake "standard of living" statistics say.
Ah, like others, you misunderstand my handle- I HACK Marx. Marx was a good starting point; but his system needed an engineer's eye as well as an economist's eye; it degrades too soon into the same old eliteism, because it too fails at the purpose of an economy- which is NOT to provide security for the few and uncertainty for the many.
That's why outsourcing CEOs isn't worth it. In general, the US is very good at business management, and people believe in the ability of those like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. There aren't that many CEO names coming from other countries, which is why those jobs aren't going overseas.
In other words, it's mere marketing- and I haven't bought Tylenol for a LONG time because I don't believe that brand=quality, and neither should you. Same goes for CEOs- any yahoo of the street could do a better job than these LYING MBA SCUM. Unless, of course, you define being good at business management as the ability to rip off the conumer, the workers, and the stockholder to provide for multi-million dollar golden parachutes.
Uh, CEO's don't do labor. Labor is toil. Golf is not toil. Spas are not toil. Driving your porche is not toil. Cracking the whip is not toil. Though it may be hard work.
And thus their salaries are utterly unjustified- so we should outsource their positions. As we should with anybody whose salary is greater than the absolute minimum we can push it to, right?
My microeconomics course was taught by a true capitalist who believed that fewer companies making fewer products was bad news for the country- which is what we currently have. Go take a look in a Walmart sometime- I challenge you to find a SINGLE PRODUCT MADE IN AMERICA. Our manufacturing ability has decreased- the only reason American Firms are able to employ fewer people here to make products is because all of the factories are in CHINA. This is good news to people like you- until you lose your job and your house.
1a. Nobody has a choice where they work- they work where they can because labor is in surplus.
1b. No employer is moral- their only god is money and their only rule of morality is profit.
2. According to the Department of Labor- the average CEO now makes 417 times minimum wage.
3. Not even the Japanese have noticed yet that the guy earning the most money is the most efficient person to cut- but I hope the stockholders here do soon.
Why is there a breakpoint? Those who are for outsourcing tell us that cost is always the driving force, not quality. So no, there is no breakpoint, that's a lie- cost is the only factor that counts. Lower costs- regardless of what it costs society or the nation. Well, you can always save a lot more in costs by outsourcing the guy who makes 400 times what everybody else does- outsourcing a single CEO is worth the same as outsourcing 400 other people.
Very good- that's the point. That's what outsourcing teaches us- cost is better. Lower cost is ALWAYS better. We can't take out all of their missiles with one pre-emptive strike- because China builds and maintains them for less than we can.
When you have enough to destroy the earth 5 times over, cutting it in 1/2 doesn't really make a damn bit of difference.
If we truly had enough to destroy the earth five times over, what's to stop us from say, carpet bombing China, one per square mile, all at once? That would give you a 100% success rate at taking out their missiles, their manufacturing capability, and 1/6th of the world's population, all at once.
Maybe if our minimum wage was 24 cents per hour, we could too. But right now- how many of those missiles can fly?
Cheaper is better, is the lesson that outsourcing teaches us- can we make them cheaper? Can we make a jet fighter for say, $10,000 instead of $10 million? That's what it will take to gain the market- and that's where Chinese ICBMs are ahead of ours- not in accuracy, but in cost.
The system is a myth- and like any myth, it can be molded to the ends we wish. Yes, under this system which fails utterly to take into account the law of thermodynamics, prosperity must eventually die- but under a different system, one hacked by true engineers rather than soothsayers, economists, and brokerage houses who all think they can fortell the future- what of that system? Now add it peer-to-peer exchanges rather than a market, what does that make?
If we weren't importing from Country X, that person could go back to being a farmer just like all of his ancestors. But instead, they take up the land for factories and leave these poor people with the slave wages of industrialization at it's worst. Worse than slave wages- at least slave owners have to pay for food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
And if you believe that, I've got some Enron stock to sell you at $80 a share. The upper class will ALWAYS soak up the majority of any money made from actually selling stuff, and they will pay the least that they can get away with legally. If wages go up in India- well there are plenty of other poor countries to move to after laying everybody in India off as well.
Costs will sink until *people* are paid fairly for what they do.
Nobody has ever gotten paid fairly for what they do- in capitalism there is always a layer of useless managers, making tens or even thousands of times what you make, above you soaking up the cash before it can get to you. Wages never rise- they sink.
Why are we dismantling them then? Why didn't we use them to take out Saddam and Ossama if they are so good? Why are we building an anti-missile shield if we can take out every one of China's missiles in a pre-emptive strike?
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The 1000 multiple point is in regards to that there are other positions in the world other than top corporate CEOs that make mega bucks. Its clear that in sports, etc. there are a few that are somewhat "worth" their extra cost. Sports teams are willing to pay a premium for that extra-good player.
And I say such an attitude is elitist, and angainst the American Constitution, which claims that all are equal and are to be treated equally. Capitalism itself is anti-American and discriminatory in the extreme- originally racist, but now elitist. It needs to be replaced if we are ever going to actually achieve freedom.
Labor will be more in surplus if the government decides what people should buy and where people should work. When the government decides more, people decide less. Easy equation.
:). It takes a supernatural change of heart for people to do good.
But not a very truthfull equation when one option for government is to maximize employment instead of profit.
Well, I can't argue for those who are greedy. If you say all are greedy and dark in heart, why trust a few government officials (often easily the most corrupt of people). If you say everyone is like that when they are born, I agree with you
Right now- it's become quite obvious that it's the corporate world, not the governmental world, that is the most easily coruptable. And it's easy to see why- we've set up the system to reward evil behavior and punish good behavior. NONE of this has anything to do with being born evil or with God- it has to do with the economic system that humans invented and humans can change at will.
I don't dispute CEO / co-founder statistics. The average basketball superstar probably earns 1000 times minimum wage.
True enough- and I see the NBA as a microcosm of what's going on in the business world- the worst, most individualistic players are paid the highest, and those who are honored just to be on the team and who are true team players, are paid the worst. The question is why any logical economic system would allow such a large discrepancy between basically interchangable parts to begin with- and whether it is right to do so.
Well, you'll probably still have that for a while - the big bosses paying themselves generously. But like I said, the most efficient company will win at the end.
Not the way the system is currently set up- the most efficient company will be put out of business by the least efficient company making the most efficient methods illegal by bribing the politicians with campaign contributions.
A nuclear missile doesn't have to be extremely complex- or high quality- to do a lot of damage. A little C-4 and a centrifuge goes a long way in that technology.
Also, since the rest of the world looks down upon countries spreading nukes, I don't think China will be selling nukes or nuke capable missle technology any time soon.
My understanding is that they already are- to Pakistan, who in turn markets to whoever wants the technology. MAD only works if you're willing to go through with the destruction- and since nobody is, the field is wide open for terrorists to take over.
Management is unnecessary, for the most part- assemble a team who actually knows how to do their jobs and who WANTS to work towards a goal, and you don't need any management at all.
Really? What? Go to WalMart some time and just *try* to find a product Made in America. Try to find a TV set Made in America. A car where all the components were Made in America. A refridgerator Made in America. A shirt or pants Made in America. NONE of these things are Made in America anymore- assembled here from foreign parts sources, sometimes (automobile industry does this). Packaged in America- sure. But what's hidden in those factory output numbers is that nothing is actually MADE here anymore.
I'd love to hire you- if I had the $500/hr myself to pay you I would, instead I have to mow my lawn myself. I have no problem with hiring people at the same rate I earn, $20/hr, to save me equivalent time, however, and do whenever I can afford to. I certainly would not lower my rate and lose money- and neither would I expect it of anybody else.
Value to stockholders is worthless if it causes the country those stockholders live in to fall to violent revolution- and I have no doubt that's where the economy of the United States and the evil of the NYSE is heading.
I had plenty of choices of where to work. Granted, not as many as I would have in the dot-com days, but I was by no means beholden to any particular place.
Lucky you- a dilligent search while I was unemployed proved to me that only government was still hiring- 2,600 resumes out, only one successfull job search.
Wow, you must have had some pretty crappy jobs to make such a generalization. It certainly hasn't been the case for me.
Possible, but with the fatal flaw in the stock market, not probable. That flaw being the quarterly report. It's killed every project that I've worked on since graduating from college.
People who are harder to replace tend to get higher salaries. What's your point?
Lying MBAs are a dime a dozen- they aren't that hard to replace, nobody is.
The salary a typical CEO makes it only a small fraction of the total amount a company makes. It's generally well worth it, considering how much a good CEO affects a company's performance.
Every CEO I've ever seen that was paid that much was affecting performance negatively merely by soaking up money that could be better used for new research and development or to actually pay the workers a living wage.
Perhaps you should lookup the effects of that many nukes going off at once. I would not be that good for the USA as a lot of the lighter fallout would make it to the USA.
The fallout can be engineered out of the system if you use the correct fissionable materials- simply by having half-lifes in the resulting radiation so short as to be meaningless by the time the fallout gets halfway around the world.
Research Nuclear war before you speak on the subject again as your use of the term 'carpet bombing' in relation to nuclear weapons shows your ignorance.
I have- apparently far more than you if you still think fallout from US weapons has a half life of more than 6 days.
Is this some kind of "In soviet russia..." jokes?
Nope, Labor is in surplus and has been for about 40 years now, it's just getting worse is all.
Employers vary. Some are more or less moral. Your choice - see 1a. They do have cooperative societies all over the world these days, I believe.
I can't find a single employer who is based on morality rather than profit- such an employer would quickly be bought out.
And? Unless you can show that someone else being rich actually harms you, I fail to see the problem.
Hoarding money at the expense of your workers harms your workers- the people who actually earned you that money. EVERY time.
The only trouble is the people making the decision s are the ones getting the most money; that's just the way it works.
Then obviously, it, the system, is broken to the extent that it, the system, needs replacing.
Job market alone shows that Wages Sink- because jobs move to the lowest possible wage COUNTRY. We have the fewest people working as a percentage of the population since 1933- when you add up the unemployed that the federal government has moved to the DISABLED and DISPLACED roles to hide their numbers. By far, in the 1950s when you could count on a college-to-retirement job, and could actually sign a 30 year mortgage with a hope of paying it off instead of becoming homeless and losing your investment, you were better off. Regardless of what the fake "standard of living" statistics say.
Ah, like others, you misunderstand my handle- I HACK Marx. Marx was a good starting point; but his system needed an engineer's eye as well as an economist's eye; it degrades too soon into the same old eliteism, because it too fails at the purpose of an economy- which is NOT to provide security for the few and uncertainty for the many.
That's why outsourcing CEOs isn't worth it. In general, the US is very good at business management, and people believe in the ability of those like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. There aren't that many CEO names coming from other countries, which is why those jobs aren't going overseas.
In other words, it's mere marketing- and I haven't bought Tylenol for a LONG time because I don't believe that brand=quality, and neither should you. Same goes for CEOs- any yahoo of the street could do a better job than these LYING MBA SCUM. Unless, of course, you define being good at business management as the ability to rip off the conumer, the workers, and the stockholder to provide for multi-million dollar golden parachutes.
Uh, CEO's don't do labor. Labor is toil. Golf is not toil. Spas are not toil. Driving your porche is not toil. Cracking the whip is not toil. Though it may be hard work.
And thus their salaries are utterly unjustified- so we should outsource their positions. As we should with anybody whose salary is greater than the absolute minimum we can push it to, right?
My microeconomics course was taught by a true capitalist who believed that fewer companies making fewer products was bad news for the country- which is what we currently have. Go take a look in a Walmart sometime- I challenge you to find a SINGLE PRODUCT MADE IN AMERICA. Our manufacturing ability has decreased- the only reason American Firms are able to employ fewer people here to make products is because all of the factories are in CHINA. This is good news to people like you- until you lose your job and your house.
1a. Nobody has a choice where they work- they work where they can because labor is in surplus.
1b. No employer is moral- their only god is money and their only rule of morality is profit.
2. According to the Department of Labor- the average CEO now makes 417 times minimum wage.
3. Not even the Japanese have noticed yet that the guy earning the most money is the most efficient person to cut- but I hope the stockholders here do soon.
Why is there a breakpoint? Those who are for outsourcing tell us that cost is always the driving force, not quality. So no, there is no breakpoint, that's a lie- cost is the only factor that counts. Lower costs- regardless of what it costs society or the nation. Well, you can always save a lot more in costs by outsourcing the guy who makes 400 times what everybody else does- outsourcing a single CEO is worth the same as outsourcing 400 other people.
Very good- that's the point. That's what outsourcing teaches us- cost is better. Lower cost is ALWAYS better. We can't take out all of their missiles with one pre-emptive strike- because China builds and maintains them for less than we can.
When you have enough to destroy the earth 5 times over, cutting it in 1/2 doesn't really make a damn bit of difference.
If we truly had enough to destroy the earth five times over, what's to stop us from say, carpet bombing China, one per square mile, all at once? That would give you a 100% success rate at taking out their missiles, their manufacturing capability, and 1/6th of the world's population, all at once.
Maybe if our minimum wage was 24 cents per hour, we could too. But right now- how many of those missiles can fly?
Cheaper is better, is the lesson that outsourcing teaches us- can we make them cheaper? Can we make a jet fighter for say, $10,000 instead of $10 million? That's what it will take to gain the market- and that's where Chinese ICBMs are ahead of ours- not in accuracy, but in cost.
The system is a myth- and like any myth, it can be molded to the ends we wish. Yes, under this system which fails utterly to take into account the law of thermodynamics, prosperity must eventually die- but under a different system, one hacked by true engineers rather than soothsayers, economists, and brokerage houses who all think they can fortell the future- what of that system? Now add it peer-to-peer exchanges rather than a market, what does that make?
If we weren't importing from Country X, that person could go back to being a farmer just like all of his ancestors. But instead, they take up the land for factories and leave these poor people with the slave wages of industrialization at it's worst. Worse than slave wages- at least slave owners have to pay for food, clothing, shelter and medical care.
And if you believe that, I've got some Enron stock to sell you at $80 a share. The upper class will ALWAYS soak up the majority of any money made from actually selling stuff, and they will pay the least that they can get away with legally. If wages go up in India- well there are plenty of other poor countries to move to after laying everybody in India off as well.
Costs will sink until *people* are paid fairly for what they do.
Nobody has ever gotten paid fairly for what they do- in capitalism there is always a layer of useless managers, making tens or even thousands of times what you make, above you soaking up the cash before it can get to you. Wages never rise- they sink.
Why are we dismantling them then? Why didn't we use them to take out Saddam and Ossama if they are so good? Why are we building an anti-missile shield if we can take out every one of China's missiles in a pre-emptive strike?