Priced anywhere from $150k to $275k depending on the drive types and configuration. We have a total of 70 or so of these frames as they are referred to, spread out in 3 datacenters in delaware alone. But then again, while our budget is small... its an enterprise level system, so it gets an enterprise level budget. A weekend's worth of full backups exceeds 50 TB at my site alone.
Wargames are Wargames, those with military, especially naval experience know that there is a predetermined script to any wargame. While it may not define the outcome, it provides a scenario which both the attacking/defending sides can exercise their ability to perform said function.
One many occasion, and this being us vs us submarines, our newer and more advanced 688i class sub would be outfitted with an augmentation device. This device would mimic the acoustics of a whole nother class of submarines and provide an immediate ability to locate/identify a non-exercise friendly (in case an intruder comes into the wargame). Most notably to make us sound like a diesel (both surfaced and silent) to help train the opposing sub in hunting the elusive diesel, or defending against its silent but deadly nature.
The most technologically advanced submarines available to any country can always be outwitted or out maneuvered. The equipment is only as good as its operators. hence, why we drill SO, SO, SO much.
~Been there, done that... 'Lant Fleet Radioman 94-00
US Navy ELF system (for use with submarines) transmits a 3 character message every 5 minutes.
note - its not 3 chars/5 minutes, its retransmitted several times on a cycle over the course of the five minutes so that if the receiver loses track on the signal for a moment, you don't end up having to wait for another whole 5 minute stretch.
Its not a really big deal that ELF is going away, as noted above its really an ultra secure, ultra reliable means to pass short, encrypted and predefined message to submarines far out of communications range.
Personally, Why isn't technology like this being adapted to fight SPAM. Maybe the FBI is trying to keep tools like this under wraps so they can continue to use it against people, rather than knowledge of its existance being a deterrent... double-edged-sword i guess.
I'm honestly curious how serious the extortionists were... The scheme sounds very half-hatched to me...
Quote -> "So your argument is that capitalism is bad because it doesn't do things until they're necessary?"
- No, Capitalism works where there is money to be made. In harder times, capitalism works to create a market for where money can be made. I see 'x' cost of putting broadband in my town (Cecilton, MD)... if the provider works with delaware, the cost drops significantly (no bridges to run cable across). They see bigger areas of potential product buyers elsewhere, hence the 'x' dollars are sent to the other area. Capitalist doesn't do things until there is money to be made. You wouldn't make a CO in rural montana DSL capable if only 3 customers were within the distance range for the type of DSL you wanted to provide would you? No... not until say... a couple housing developments were created so that you now have a couple hundred possible customers...
As for the IP Crunch and IPv6. I don't argue one bit that there is a substantial endeavour both technically and monetarily, Although I don't argue its required right now, but in the world proposed by the topic originator, I would find it hard to believe that we wouldn't have an IP crunch, heck maybe even a crunch of biblical proportions... let me give a possible example...
- obviously a nationalized ISP network would take more than a day to complete, but in the transition time, wouldn't our wonderful capitalist market then go wild with internetworked devices for the consumer and business, now that everyone is peering off of each other (presuming the scenario proposed by the original post). Now when all these devices flood the market, how does IP get handled without a broadly capable IP protocol.
There has to be a statistic somewhere about what the current average IP consumption rate is... Everyone projects we'll run out of IP's soon, but I really wonder what those stats look like... Anyone got any hints on that?
Nonetheless, if every Tom, Dick and Harry jumped on the national internet network with all our newly devised devices from cars and lawn mowers requiring public IP's, not to mention that since we are all paying for it anyway, why not put up a website for my business (Jim's Lunch).. even though I couldn't justify the cost of a website for my business in the former capitalist network...
Anywho, enough of my rambling... am i making any more sense?
Well, Nationalizing things (if it ever did happen in the near future)... would result in a couple things, IMHO... let me explain my theory...
By skimming off jobs, I mean that by somewhat centralizing the operation, there wouldn't be the same amount of openings for network technicians, sales reps, help desk techs and soforth...
Optimally, I would presume that when XYZ group or government office prepared the transition plan, they'd say well.. there are 100 different DSL ISP's in the NYC area, we don't need all 300 sales reps to cover the city, now that we are streamlined and in one office... 100 should be able to do the job...
- there went 200 jobs... granted, thats a purely uncalculated number... but just to show the point... if there's a bunch of isp's covering an area, each with 3 sales reps... why in the world would the agency/group keep all of them?
Nationalization would provide some good things though, in my opinion... (is there a better term than nationalization?) I think it would alleviate some of the strain the end users (residential and business alike) have to bear when there are network outages.
for example, Jim's diner loses his DSL connection, calls Jerry's ISP. Jerry's ISP(just another reseller/router) troubleshoots the problem for an hour, determines its the true provider... Verizon, they call in a problem to verizon, after an hour of troubleshooting, verizon thinks its related to a recent router configuration change, takes another hour to back out the changes but the problem isn't resolved, 2 hours later they realize its just someone who hijacked the IP address and they then go about getting it switched back.
Under a single agency/group's control, it would have to be assumed that network operations would be far more streamlined. Granted, thats only an assumption... but since we are dreaming of nationalization... i might as well dream wide and bright..;-)
Does this make more sense? or am I still out to lunch...
Ok, so I can get a dry paid into my house for less than cable or DSL... but how much is the monthly cost for my local ISP to plug me into their backbone..
As well, how much will it cost for me to get them to let me have ALL of the 2 megabits my dry pair is capable of?
in theory, just like the topic of these posts.. it should be very cheap since the isp only has to run 6 ft of cable to plug me into a router interface and 1 minute of time to put me into their routing table... but alas... this is theory...
I must add, we're waiting for those Baby Bells and Time Warners to broadly adopt IPv6 too...
I would dare say that capitalism is working relatively well
From a capitalist standpoint, we are spreading the broadband network far and wide wherever there is enough money to be made to cover the cost of the upgrade and the CEO's perks package...
From an end user perspective, this capitalist view sucks... I live in an area where there is enough demand in my eyes to justify the cost of bringing high speed into the area, but according to my phone and cable providers, I am wrong... there are bigger money fish to fry...
This is like communism, looks good on paper... I think it is completely possible this is what the future holds, but at this point there is too much capitalist profit to be made, and far, FAR too many jobs that will get skimmed off by nationalizing/federalizing communications systems.
Well said... I was hoping this recommending was down this thread.
As I read through the responses here regarding blacklists, Obviously it will be inherent that at least a good portion of mail administrators will quickly block the block...
Here's my 2 cents... have groups like ARIN who control the IP's and are informed as to when an IP hijacking has occurred... why don't they create a ~whitelist~ of sorts.
Effectively a centralized database of recently restored IP blocks that have been used illegally and have now been returned to rightful owners. Some will probably still continue to be blacklisted because the legitimate hosts aren't as legitimate as we'd like, but at least it would provide the oppurtunity to restore order alot easier...
note - i saw used illegally in the sense that it was hijacked, notsomuch used for spam, pr0n or others socially-negative hosting, while it may include the latter... it doesn't need to be...
God I miss my sandbox and Tonka Trucks... heck, even GI Joe's and Tinker Toys aren't what they used to be...
To think... with the technological advances we have with effects and displays that go along with the gaming arena these days... someone has to revert to nothing short of a cattleprod to 'spice up' the experience...
Many have mentioned having properly updated machines and providing copies of free games.
How have people managed keeping the copies of software legal? Do most LAN parties even care or do they take a "you use illegal software at your own risk" approaches.
Or is there even a way to prove someone is not legally owning a game? I.e. its completely legal to make a backup copy of a cd, and/or use patches to remove cd checks from games, is it not?
Whats the right/wrong way to handle this? should it matter?
In this scenario, we are given the facts that this will be roughly 100-150 people and obviously performed at a commercial space...
I am curious how we can apply some of the information tossed in here. Many responders have mentioned power and networking as one of their greatest concerns...
Networking - Having a networking guru is obviously wise, as few will argue that it may be simple to setup a linksys broadband router, but organizing and subnetting several hundred ip's could be hairy. Simply put, negotiating the services of a net-dude is an obvious thing to do...
Power - How do you plan this? Most of the even most technically savvy don't usually measure the power usage of our desktops. We load up the power strip until it pops the strip or the breaker, if it continues to pop we find a solution) extension cord, new outlet/circuit, heavier wiring/breaker). In this situation, one is forced into the confines of a commercial/retail area (Hotel conference room/school gymnasium/rental hall). Most of which are rarely designed with large power consumption in mind.
So, whats the threshold of network user size that you would recommend getting a net geek involved? 20-30 people? 50 people? as long as your are switching the network vice using ultracheap hubs, how far can you go on a broadband switch/router before it can't handle the traffic load? My guess, if you go over 30 people or so, and/or go outside your group of friends and acquaintances... get a geek for networking...
Power.. how do you measure what power you would need? for example... a lan party of 60... if you want to put 2 pc's on each power strip, that will draw X amps, and x amps per power strip will allow you to put Y power strips on one Z rated circuit in your area (conference room/gym/hall). How much amperage does your average gaming machine draw? How do we figure these out? and how do we convince hotel maintenance that we really do need 47,000 amps of 120 VAC. Would it be wise to either enlist the maintenance tech for your location (if knowledgeable enough) or even hiring an outside electrician to manage the power? Obviously everyone wants to keep costs at a minimum... whats the best route for the original scenario...
Anywho... I'm looking at these responses very carefully, as I don't know of any regularly held LAN parties within a 50 mile radius of me, and am thinking about trying to organize one...
Some of the things I have come across in surfing for information...
- Some LAN parties advertise the use of a device that will check the load of your PC. Effectively, if your section or area draws too much power, they test the devices draw and appear to easily be able to isolate the offending juice hog.
- Many LAN parties advertise long hours or several days. If you are hosting this somewhere other than a hotel or large metropolitan area, how DO you arrange for lodging/sleep accomodations.
Anyway... my 3 cents...
For those who REALLY want a.MIL domain name...
Having spent a good deal of time in the US Navy dealing with the fun of keeping seperated, classified and unclassified networks, I can tell you exactly how much of a threat this problem is, to national security..
None. At the very worst, as pointed out in earlier posts... slashdotting a public domain.mil site (like http://chinfo.navy.mil/) would only serve to seriously tick off servicemembers family's, and the average run of the mill PR guys for the navy.
Classified servers, sites, and networks are encrypted before they ever touch the same cables as the internet. In many cases, they never DO touch the same cables, but.. Yes, alot of that -classified- traffic passes over the same lines as your average slashdot post, BUT... its highly encrypted before it ever gets there (encryption level and equipment obviously varied by classification level, some data doesn't even get to TOUCH a networked computer).
As well, a LARGE portion of the.mil domain's are setup to ONLY see traffic from another authorized.mil network (usually managed by IP address's). If your.mil network needs access to see my network, as well as getting the usual userids and passwords, my net admins need to talk to yours, and put your 1.2.3.xxx address into our firewall.
So, the threat here? The threat is really only to the fact that its completely possible to now have a bazillion "yourname.yourwebsite.mil" websites running around... And this wouldn't HURT anything persay, because most.mil websites are acronyms like "subhqnorva.navy.mil" (for Submarine Squadron Headquarters Norfolk Virginia).
US Military bungle? Yes
National Security Threat? Minimal...
Do you really want a.mil domain? Gee, only if you want to cause unnecessary trouble for a government trying to prepare for war...
Slashdot Mirror
One backs up a Petabyte with something like this...
C ategoryDisplay?storeId=1&catalogId=-840&langId=-1& dualCurrId=73&categoryId=2058932&x=6&y=11
http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
Priced anywhere from $150k to $275k depending on the drive types and configuration. We have a total of 70 or so of these frames as they are referred to, spread out in 3 datacenters in delaware alone. But then again, while our budget is small... its an enterprise level system, so it gets an enterprise level budget. A weekend's worth of full backups exceeds 50 TB at my site alone.
Wargames are Wargames, those with military, especially naval experience know that there is a predetermined script to any wargame. While it may not define the outcome, it provides a scenario which both the attacking/defending sides can exercise their ability to perform said function. One many occasion, and this being us vs us submarines, our newer and more advanced 688i class sub would be outfitted with an augmentation device. This device would mimic the acoustics of a whole nother class of submarines and provide an immediate ability to locate/identify a non-exercise friendly (in case an intruder comes into the wargame). Most notably to make us sound like a diesel (both surfaced and silent) to help train the opposing sub in hunting the elusive diesel, or defending against its silent but deadly nature. The most technologically advanced submarines available to any country can always be outwitted or out maneuvered. The equipment is only as good as its operators. hence, why we drill SO, SO, SO much. ~Been there, done that... 'Lant Fleet Radioman 94-00
US Navy ELF system (for use with submarines) transmits a 3 character message every 5 minutes.
note - its not 3 chars/5 minutes, its retransmitted several times on a cycle over the course of the five minutes so that if the receiver loses track on the signal for a moment, you don't end up having to wait for another whole 5 minute stretch.
Its not a really big deal that ELF is going away, as noted above its really an ultra secure, ultra reliable means to pass short, encrypted and predefined message to submarines far out of communications range.
Coming from a SubLant Fleet Radioman 94-00.
Personally, Why isn't technology like this being adapted to fight SPAM. Maybe the FBI is trying to keep tools like this under wraps so they can continue to use it against people, rather than knowledge of its existance being a deterrent... double-edged-sword i guess. I'm honestly curious how serious the extortionists were... The scheme sounds very half-hatched to me...
But hey.. we were kindof dreaming from the start, weren't we?
- No, Capitalism works where there is money to be made. In harder times, capitalism works to create a market for where money can be made. I see 'x' cost of putting broadband in my town (Cecilton, MD)... if the provider works with delaware, the cost drops significantly (no bridges to run cable across). They see bigger areas of potential product buyers elsewhere, hence the 'x' dollars are sent to the other area. Capitalist doesn't do things until there is money to be made. You wouldn't make a CO in rural montana DSL capable if only 3 customers were within the distance range for the type of DSL you wanted to provide would you? No... not until say... a couple housing developments were created so that you now have a couple hundred possible customers...
As for the IP Crunch and IPv6. I don't argue one bit that there is a substantial endeavour both technically and monetarily, Although I don't argue its required right now, but in the world proposed by the topic originator, I would find it hard to believe that we wouldn't have an IP crunch, heck maybe even a crunch of biblical proportions... let me give a possible example...
- obviously a nationalized ISP network would take more than a day to complete, but in the transition time, wouldn't our wonderful capitalist market then go wild with internetworked devices for the consumer and business, now that everyone is peering off of each other (presuming the scenario proposed by the original post). Now when all these devices flood the market, how does IP get handled without a broadly capable IP protocol.
There has to be a statistic somewhere about what the current average IP consumption rate is... Everyone projects we'll run out of IP's soon, but I really wonder what those stats look like... Anyone got any hints on that?
Nonetheless, if every Tom, Dick and Harry jumped on the national internet network with all our newly devised devices from cars and lawn mowers requiring public IP's, not to mention that since we are all paying for it anyway, why not put up a website for my business (Jim's Lunch).. even though I couldn't justify the cost of a website for my business in the former capitalist network... Anywho, enough of my rambling... am i making any more sense?
By skimming off jobs, I mean that by somewhat centralizing the operation, there wouldn't be the same amount of openings for network technicians, sales reps, help desk techs and soforth...
Optimally, I would presume that when XYZ group or government office prepared the transition plan, they'd say well.. there are 100 different DSL ISP's in the NYC area, we don't need all 300 sales reps to cover the city, now that we are streamlined and in one office... 100 should be able to do the job...
- there went 200 jobs... granted, thats a purely uncalculated number... but just to show the point... if there's a bunch of isp's covering an area, each with 3 sales reps... why in the world would the agency/group keep all of them?
Nationalization would provide some good things though, in my opinion... (is there a better term than nationalization?) I think it would alleviate some of the strain the end users (residential and business alike) have to bear when there are network outages.
for example, Jim's diner loses his DSL connection, calls Jerry's ISP. Jerry's ISP(just another reseller/router) troubleshoots the problem for an hour, determines its the true provider... Verizon, they call in a problem to verizon, after an hour of troubleshooting, verizon thinks its related to a recent router configuration change, takes another hour to back out the changes but the problem isn't resolved, 2 hours later they realize its just someone who hijacked the IP address and they then go about getting it switched back.
Under a single agency/group's control, it would have to be assumed that network operations would be far more streamlined. Granted, thats only an assumption... but since we are dreaming of nationalization... i might as well dream wide and bright.. ;-)
Does this make more sense? or am I still out to lunch...
As well, how much will it cost for me to get them to let me have ALL of the 2 megabits my dry pair is capable of?
in theory, just like the topic of these posts.. it should be very cheap since the isp only has to run 6 ft of cable to plug me into a router interface and 1 minute of time to put me into their routing table... but alas... this is theory...
I would dare say that capitalism is working relatively well
From a capitalist standpoint, we are spreading the broadband network far and wide wherever there is enough money to be made to cover the cost of the upgrade and the CEO's perks package...
From an end user perspective, this capitalist view sucks... I live in an area where there is enough demand in my eyes to justify the cost of bringing high speed into the area, but according to my phone and cable providers, I am wrong... there are bigger money fish to fry...
This is like communism, looks good on paper... I think it is completely possible this is what the future holds, but at this point there is too much capitalist profit to be made, and far, FAR too many jobs that will get skimmed off by nationalizing/federalizing communications systems.
As I read through the responses here regarding blacklists, Obviously it will be inherent that at least a good portion of mail administrators will quickly block the block...
Here's my 2 cents... have groups like ARIN who control the IP's and are informed as to when an IP hijacking has occurred... why don't they create a ~whitelist~ of sorts.
Effectively a centralized database of recently restored IP blocks that have been used illegally and have now been returned to rightful owners. Some will probably still continue to be blacklisted because the legitimate hosts aren't as legitimate as we'd like, but at least it would provide the oppurtunity to restore order alot easier...
note - i saw used illegally in the sense that it was hijacked, notsomuch used for spam, pr0n or others socially-negative hosting, while it may include the latter... it doesn't need to be...
I guess i'm just trying to not have to ask an electrician... maybe i can find an electrician thats a geek too.... shouldn't be too hard, eh?
To think... with the technological advances we have with effects and displays that go along with the gaming arena these days... someone has to revert to nothing short of a cattleprod to 'spice up' the experience...
How have people managed keeping the copies of software legal? Do most LAN parties even care or do they take a "you use illegal software at your own risk" approaches.
Or is there even a way to prove someone is not legally owning a game? I.e. its completely legal to make a backup copy of a cd, and/or use patches to remove cd checks from games, is it not?
Whats the right/wrong way to handle this? should it matter?
In this scenario, we are given the facts that this will be roughly 100-150 people and obviously performed at a commercial space... I am curious how we can apply some of the information tossed in here. Many responders have mentioned power and networking as one of their greatest concerns... Networking - Having a networking guru is obviously wise, as few will argue that it may be simple to setup a linksys broadband router, but organizing and subnetting several hundred ip's could be hairy. Simply put, negotiating the services of a net-dude is an obvious thing to do... Power - How do you plan this? Most of the even most technically savvy don't usually measure the power usage of our desktops. We load up the power strip until it pops the strip or the breaker, if it continues to pop we find a solution) extension cord, new outlet/circuit, heavier wiring/breaker). In this situation, one is forced into the confines of a commercial/retail area (Hotel conference room/school gymnasium/rental hall). Most of which are rarely designed with large power consumption in mind. So, whats the threshold of network user size that you would recommend getting a net geek involved? 20-30 people? 50 people? as long as your are switching the network vice using ultracheap hubs, how far can you go on a broadband switch/router before it can't handle the traffic load? My guess, if you go over 30 people or so, and/or go outside your group of friends and acquaintances... get a geek for networking... Power.. how do you measure what power you would need? for example... a lan party of 60 ... if you want to put 2 pc's on each power strip, that will draw X amps, and x amps per power strip will allow you to put Y power strips on one Z rated circuit in your area (conference room/gym/hall). How much amperage does your average gaming machine draw? How do we figure these out? and how do we convince hotel maintenance that we really do need 47,000 amps of 120 VAC. Would it be wise to either enlist the maintenance tech for your location (if knowledgeable enough) or even hiring an outside electrician to manage the power? Obviously everyone wants to keep costs at a minimum... whats the best route for the original scenario...
Anywho... I'm looking at these responses very carefully, as I don't know of any regularly held LAN parties within a 50 mile radius of me, and am thinking about trying to organize one...
Some of the things I have come across in surfing for information...
- Some LAN parties advertise the use of a device that will check the load of your PC. Effectively, if your section or area draws too much power, they test the devices draw and appear to easily be able to isolate the offending juice hog.
- Many LAN parties advertise long hours or several days. If you are hosting this somewhere other than a hotel or large metropolitan area, how DO you arrange for lodging/sleep accomodations.
Anyway... my 3 cents...
For those who REALLY want a .MIL domain name...
Having spent a good deal of time in the US Navy dealing with the fun of keeping seperated, classified and unclassified networks, I can tell you exactly how much of a threat this problem is, to national security..
None. At the very worst, as pointed out in earlier posts... slashdotting a public domain .mil site (like http://chinfo.navy.mil/) would only serve to seriously tick off servicemembers family's, and the average run of the mill PR guys for the navy.
Classified servers, sites, and networks are encrypted before they ever touch the same cables as the internet. In many cases, they never DO touch the same cables, but.. Yes, alot of that -classified- traffic passes over the same lines as your average slashdot post, BUT... its highly encrypted before it ever gets there (encryption level and equipment obviously varied by classification level, some data doesn't even get to TOUCH a networked computer).
As well, a LARGE portion of the .mil domain's are setup to ONLY see traffic from another authorized .mil network (usually managed by IP address's). If your .mil network needs access to see my network, as well as getting the usual userids and passwords, my net admins need to talk to yours, and put your 1.2.3.xxx address into our firewall.
So, the threat here? The threat is really only to the fact that its completely possible to now have a bazillion "yourname.yourwebsite.mil" websites running around... And this wouldn't HURT anything persay, because most .mil websites are acronyms like "subhqnorva.navy.mil" (for Submarine Squadron Headquarters Norfolk Virginia).
US Military bungle? Yes
National Security Threat? Minimal...
Do you really want a .mil domain? Gee, only if you want to cause unnecessary trouble for a government trying to prepare for war...