I agree with you that the EU is now about more than free trade. They are attempting political, military, and possibly cultural unity. In short, they want to become one nation - like America. Whether they can achieve this or even really want to reamins to be seen. However, since this was an economic discussion topic, I didn't want to get into all that. There are poeple who say that France and Germany will someday be one country, and some people who say that will never happen in a million years. There are people who say that if Quebec were to break off from Canada a lot of Western Canada would apply for admission to the US. Who knows?
As for the economics, this stuff has exceptions to the exceptions, so it always depends on the two countries you are talking about. My understanding is its easier for a Canadian to work legally in Britain than for an Italian (that's the commonwealth thing working). Also, since I was in San Diego, California for awhile my view of the free flow of labor between Mexico and California is probably different than someone in Idaho. Although that might have changed since 9/11.
Trade is less restricted between States in the US than it is between EU countries, and trade between EU countries is less restricted than that between the US and Canada or Mexico. Howver, the eventual goal of both free trade groups is unrestricted trade within the zone - including labor.
Re:It's all about the money
on
NARAS vs. the RIAA
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
While I'm all in favor of curbing rent-seeking behavior and having a more balanced copyright system, the idea that intellectual property is not property doesn't make any sense. Property is anything one has ownership of (the right to exclude, sell ir transfer, and use). Thia makes intellectual property a type of property.
Its true that intellectual property is not real estate (known in law as real property) but there is also personal property, and there is monetary property, and I'm sure other types as well I can't think of off the top of my head. Are you going to try and convince me now that the 1s and 0s that make up your bank account are not property because they exist as money only due to government regulation and you can't stick a fork in them? How about transferring it to me then!!??!
Copyright is a temporary property right granted by government. How long that grant should be, or whether it should exist at all, is a subject for debate. In its current state, though, its property. Just as when my landlord grants me the "privilege" of using his apartment for a month in return for his monetary benefit, and government grants me the "privilege" of using a work I created in return for their benefit of me having created it. A landlord's "license" confers me no real property, but just the right to temporarily use his property. A better example is a life estate, if you're familiar with it (a person can legally inherit the right to real property, but only for their lifetime, then it passes to someone else as dictated by the original owner). In fact, a life estate in real property almost exactly mirrors a copyright grant in intellectual property, with the public domain serving as the recipient of the remainder after the owner of the life estate (the copyright owner) dies.
I may be getting over a few people's heads here, but it would probably be more useful for a debate on intellectual property to not try and define it as something else, but to instead discuss what the specific rights, responsibilties, regulation and ownership periods should be...
The EU is not a country - yet - but a coordinated free trade zone. For an economic comparisoon, a proper comparison would be between NAFTA and the EU, which are much more similar in size. Also, by the time the EU lets in the "poor" Eastern European countries to increase its size the US will have let some "poor" South or Central American country into NAFTA by then, and they will remain relatively equal in size.
This entire analysis of population ignores the fact that the US/NAFTA is by far the largest economy on earth, and that Europe needs the US more than the US need Europe (which is the true test of any negotiation)
However, it does raise two interesting points of demographics - First, through NAFTA, hemispheric considerations, and other factors the US is slowly coming to be less a European country in North America and more of an "Americas" country. This will only increase as immigration from Latin America increases. The latest US census figure really show this (Hispanics are now the second largest minority in America). The US always has a natural empathy for countries where more of its immigrants came from. The "special" relationship with Britain and Israel. Ireland and Poland being such good friends of the US, etc. Now the countries of Latin America. This always makes good domestic and international sense for the U.S.
Secondly, higher standards of living mean fewer children - both the U.S. and Europe aren't having enough children domestically to maintain their existing populations (neither is Russia and its dying for it, but thats another matter). Immigration is therefore key to any population growth, especially immigration from Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East. Population growth is therefore tied to the ability to absorb immigrant populations into your country, educate them, and make them productive members of your workforce. In this area, nobody has ever been better than the US, and Europe has a long way to go.
That said, many European nations are sick of being bullied by the US (rightly so) and will work together more often in the future for their own interests rather than caving to the US. And since a little humility once in awhile is a good thing, this is in the interests of the US, too.
Slashdot Mirror
As for the economics, this stuff has exceptions to the exceptions, so it always depends on the two countries you are talking about. My understanding is its easier for a Canadian to work legally in Britain than for an Italian (that's the commonwealth thing working). Also, since I was in San Diego, California for awhile my view of the free flow of labor between Mexico and California is probably different than someone in Idaho. Although that might have changed since 9/11.
Trade is less restricted between States in the US than it is between EU countries, and trade between EU countries is less restricted than that between the US and Canada or Mexico. Howver, the eventual goal of both free trade groups is unrestricted trade within the zone - including labor.
While I'm all in favor of curbing rent-seeking behavior and having a more balanced copyright system, the idea that intellectual property is not property doesn't make any sense. Property is anything one has ownership of (the right to exclude, sell ir transfer, and use). Thia makes intellectual property a type of property. Its true that intellectual property is not real estate (known in law as real property) but there is also personal property, and there is monetary property, and I'm sure other types as well I can't think of off the top of my head. Are you going to try and convince me now that the 1s and 0s that make up your bank account are not property because they exist as money only due to government regulation and you can't stick a fork in them? How about transferring it to me then!!??! Copyright is a temporary property right granted by government. How long that grant should be, or whether it should exist at all, is a subject for debate. In its current state, though, its property. Just as when my landlord grants me the "privilege" of using his apartment for a month in return for his monetary benefit, and government grants me the "privilege" of using a work I created in return for their benefit of me having created it. A landlord's "license" confers me no real property, but just the right to temporarily use his property. A better example is a life estate, if you're familiar with it (a person can legally inherit the right to real property, but only for their lifetime, then it passes to someone else as dictated by the original owner). In fact, a life estate in real property almost exactly mirrors a copyright grant in intellectual property, with the public domain serving as the recipient of the remainder after the owner of the life estate (the copyright owner) dies. I may be getting over a few people's heads here, but it would probably be more useful for a debate on intellectual property to not try and define it as something else, but to instead discuss what the specific rights, responsibilties, regulation and ownership periods should be...
The EU is not a country - yet - but a coordinated free trade zone. For an economic comparisoon, a proper comparison would be between NAFTA and the EU, which are much more similar in size. Also, by the time the EU lets in the "poor" Eastern European countries to increase its size the US will have let some "poor" South or Central American country into NAFTA by then, and they will remain relatively equal in size.
This entire analysis of population ignores the fact that the US/NAFTA is by far the largest economy on earth, and that Europe needs the US more than the US need Europe (which is the true test of any negotiation)
However, it does raise two interesting points of demographics - First, through NAFTA, hemispheric considerations, and other factors the US is slowly coming to be less a European country in North America and more of an "Americas" country. This will only increase as immigration from Latin America increases. The latest US census figure really show this (Hispanics are now the second largest minority in America). The US always has a natural empathy for countries where more of its immigrants came from. The "special" relationship with Britain and Israel. Ireland and Poland being such good friends of the US, etc. Now the countries of Latin America. This always makes good domestic and international sense for the U.S.
Secondly, higher standards of living mean fewer children - both the U.S. and Europe aren't having enough children domestically to maintain their existing populations (neither is Russia and its dying for it, but thats another matter). Immigration is therefore key to any population growth, especially immigration from Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East. Population growth is therefore tied to the ability to absorb immigrant populations into your country, educate them, and make them productive members of your workforce. In this area, nobody has ever been better than the US, and Europe has a long way to go.
That said, many European nations are sick of being bullied by the US (rightly so) and will work together more often in the future for their own interests rather than caving to the US. And since a little humility once in awhile is a good thing, this is in the interests of the US, too.