It is because Apple has Foxxcon manufacturer and assemble
It's because it's Apple. Somewhat defensible if you're coming from the standpoint of Apple being a high-profit, high-profile company, so they're in a great position to do something about it. But some ignore the fact that workers are just as abused building Xboxes and Androids as they are iPhones, and just like to bitch at Apple.
Of course, that same western factory worker's pay, benefits, and conditions is why it's so expensive to make anything here. Western standard of living and OSHA is why all the jobs are going overseas, because nobody here is willing to take a pay cut to keep their job.
Germany puts the lie to that corporatist bullshit:
How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much
In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germanyâ(TM)s big three car companiesâ"BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagenâ"are very profitable.
And that's not from some dirty fucking hippie rag like Mother Jones, that's from Forbes.
The problem isn't that American workers aren't competitive, the problem is executive greed.
But we all knew that already. Cheap shipping, cheap third world labor and international communications were all available in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. But we didn't see the gutting of America's manufacturing base until unions were busted, marginal tax rates (91% under Eisenhower) were slashed to less than 30%, and corporatist "free trade" laws were passed that puts Americans in competition with third world labor without giving Americans third world price tags on goods, housing or services.
Capitalism is redistribution of wealth - to the top. An economic system where the CEO of Wal-Mart makes many times the average employee is not a problem. A system where the CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in one month than the average employee does in his or her entire lifetime is obscene.
Demanding a detailed description of what you saw was a red herring. Whether or not someone has been to China, it's basic common sense that you shouldn't trust an inspection when the company being inspected is in on the inspection. It would be like the FDA telling Tyson in advance that it was going to inspect a chicken farm, or the Department of Labor telling Wal-Mart in advance that it would be talking to some of its workers in one of its stores.
I wouldn't trust those results either, for the same reasons.
Unions only work when there is a limited supply of workers.
Eh? If there's a limited supply of workers, companies wont be as free to abuse their workforce, thus eliminating the main reason to have a union in the first place. So if labor is plentiful, there's no point in forming a union. If labor is tight, there's no point in forming a union.
No, you'll find lots of like-minded fundies that are whiny assed titty bitches when it comes to the amount of sex (or even worse, gay sex) on TV. Completely ignoring the fact that they can change channels and that TV's have been programmable for content for almost 20 years.
No factory workers - wage slave or otherwise - work at the Golden Gate.
Just sayin'.
Doubt many depressed people in China make a point of seeking out a Foxconn building for a suicide attempt.
Just sayin'.
Which means these Golden Gate Bridge, Empire State Building comparisons are completely irrelevant at best and deliberate misdirection at worst.
Just sayin'.
Now, if you have a story on suicide rates amongst Wal-Mart workers or something, then by all means share it so we could have an actual analogy here..........
The Empire State Building also has nets, does that mean all of NYC is a giant sweat shop filled with despair and misery?
If I wanted to make an irrelevant comparison, sure. How many sweatshops are inside the Empire State Building? Do depressed people who don't work actually work at Foxconn nevertheless travel to their factories for suicide attempts?
Oooh, you insufferable cunts, always pointing to others. OJ to judge: Yes I committed murder, but there are also other murderers. So it's OK.
And if there were worse killings going on right outside the courthouse but for some reason the DA and the cops didn't give a shit - OJ would have a point.
This isn't a "everybody else does it so it's okay" defense, it's a "why are you directing 100% of the outrage at one player when there many others at least as guilty". But you knew that already, since the parent poster was perfectly clear:
While Apple bashing is always fun, let us remember that Apple is not the only FoxConn client. So while you may revel in this negative publicity of APPLE, would you be as thrilled to hear that your Xbox 360, your PS3, your Wii, and your Kindle are also built at those same FoxConn factories? Whatever dirt is uncovered will not only tarnish the fruit company but also plenty of other tech titans from HP to Microsoft. So does your umbrage only extend to Apple Inc? My guess is that you will not be metering your indignation equally.
The gulf has seen bad spills before (Ixtoc I). Oil seeps into gulf naturally. The Gulf of Mexico does get oil in it all the time and has been for 1000s of years. It might be one of the best places to have a spill.
Like saying Chernobyl was no big deal because you get radiation standing next to a microwave. Sometimes I wonder how people manage to type something like that and have enough brain power to keep their lungs functioning.....
Per kilowatt nuclear is the safest when all things are taken into account.
What are you smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? Nuclear is the most expensive power source - by far - when you actually consider all of the actual costs. Insurance, regulation, subsidization, storage of waste, refining, construction of new plants...
But safer?!? In some alternate dimension where solar plants have suffered explosions that spew radiological waste resulting in evacuations and decades of containment of the surrounding area?
There ain't no other choice right now that will meet demand and not generate CO2.
Tautology that's contradicted by existing technologies that, in many cases, have been around for decades. We can dramatically reduce our energy consumption (mass transit, rail over highways, better insulation) while investing in green energy (energy needs greatest on hot, sunny days).
Eh, a decent modern reactor with modern safeguards isn't going to see those sorts of problems, or at least they become much less likely.
Eh, that's like saying your new house with your new shingles will weather much better than shingles put up in the 80's. Sure, your roof may be new, materials have advanced in the last 30 years - but you're still susceptible to the same problems: wind, water, snow....meltdown, waste storage...
Besides, the biggest design flaws will always be with nuclear power, no matter how advanced reactors get: human greed and hubris. The disasters at Three Mile Island, Fukishima, and Chernobyl were all avoidable with the technology available at the time. Corners will be cut to save a buck and officials will still hop back and forth between working for regulatory agencies and the companies being regulated.
Because in the 50's the rest of the world was still recovering from WWII
Then offshoring would have started immediately after WWII, not until the 80's and 90's. Why settle for third world labor with third world education and third world infrastructure when you can have at least first world education in recovering Europe, as people there would have been desperate for jobs.
It's just a crazy coincidence that our manufacturing base was moved overseas after unions were gutted, after marginal tax rates were slashed, and after "free trade" laws were passed....
How much telecommunications infrastructure does it take to call up a factory on the other side of the planet and say "ship 10,000 widgets to New York next month"? Furthermore, you free trade apologists speak as if China and Vietnam et all all had modern infrastructure and power and telecommunications already there.
To paraphrase Bill Hicks, your rationalizations are beneath you. And thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.
Corporations use H1-B visas for the same reason they offshore: getting foreigners to do the same job for less money. Yet you never hear of VP's getting fired and replaced with cheap MBA's from India at 1/10th the cost....
The reality is simply this: finding good people in the tech sector is very hard when you want to pay them below market rates
Fixed that up a bit, as the whole purpose of the H1-B visa program is to depress wages. See: when companies like IBM laid off 5,000 workers while continuing to import foreign labor.
There is no shortage of engineers, only a shortage of companies willing to pay for what they want to get. But Human Resources comes to save the day - by drawing up a big list of job requirements like a graduate degree and five years experience, yet offers $40,000 to start. Then they're shocked, shocked! when they face a shortage of "qualified" American applicants and thus turn to H1-B.....
This program should have been terminated, with prejudice, after the Dot Com crash. Then again after the economy collapsed in 2008.
Slashdot Mirror
It's because it's Apple. Somewhat defensible if you're coming from the standpoint of Apple being a high-profit, high-profile company, so they're in a great position to do something about it. But some ignore the fact that workers are just as abused building Xboxes and Androids as they are iPhones, and just like to bitch at Apple.
How many results are you going to find for 'world trade center bombing news'?
You apparently have a different idea of what a good point is than the rest of us do.
Germany puts the lie to that corporatist bullshit:
And that's not from some dirty fucking hippie rag like Mother Jones, that's from Forbes.
The problem isn't that American workers aren't competitive, the problem is executive greed.
But we all knew that already. Cheap shipping, cheap third world labor and international communications were all available in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. But we didn't see the gutting of America's manufacturing base until unions were busted, marginal tax rates (91% under Eisenhower) were slashed to less than 30%, and corporatist "free trade" laws were passed that puts Americans in competition with third world labor without giving Americans third world price tags on goods, housing or services.
Capitalism is redistribution of wealth - to the top. An economic system where the CEO of Wal-Mart makes many times the average employee is not a problem. A system where the CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in one month than the average employee does in his or her entire lifetime is obscene.
Demanding a detailed description of what you saw was a red herring. Whether or not someone has been to China, it's basic common sense that you shouldn't trust an inspection when the company being inspected is in on the inspection. It would be like the FDA telling Tyson in advance that it was going to inspect a chicken farm, or the Department of Labor telling Wal-Mart in advance that it would be talking to some of its workers in one of its stores.
I wouldn't trust those results either, for the same reasons.
Eh? If there's a limited supply of workers, companies wont be as free to abuse their workforce, thus eliminating the main reason to have a union in the first place. So if labor is plentiful, there's no point in forming a union. If labor is tight, there's no point in forming a union.
Unless that's the actual point....
And your indignation will be impressive when it it's aimed at every other giant tech company that uses Foxconn as opposed to just Apple.
No, you'll find lots of like-minded fundies that are whiny assed titty bitches when it comes to the amount of sex (or even worse, gay sex) on TV. Completely ignoring the fact that they can change channels and that TV's have been programmable for content for almost 20 years.
No factory workers - wage slave or otherwise - work at the Golden Gate.
Just sayin'.
Doubt many depressed people in China make a point of seeking out a Foxconn building for a suicide attempt.
Just sayin'.
Which means these Golden Gate Bridge, Empire State Building comparisons are completely irrelevant at best and deliberate misdirection at worst.
Just sayin'.
Now, if you have a story on suicide rates amongst Wal-Mart workers or something, then by all means share it so we could have an actual analogy here..........
Shorter Rakishi:
If I wanted to make an irrelevant comparison, sure. How many sweatshops are inside the Empire State Building? Do depressed people who don't work actually work at Foxconn nevertheless travel to their factories for suicide attempts?
Obviously, exploited Foxconn workers who wonder why nobody gives a shit about them unless they're building an Apple device, obviously.
And if there were worse killings going on right outside the courthouse but for some reason the DA and the cops didn't give a shit - OJ would have a point.
This isn't a "everybody else does it so it's okay" defense, it's a "why are you directing 100% of the outrage at one player when there many others at least as guilty". But you knew that already, since the parent poster was perfectly clear:
Looks like you proved his point on indignation.
Like saying Chernobyl was no big deal because you get radiation standing next to a microwave. Sometimes I wonder how people manage to type something like that and have enough brain power to keep their lungs functioning.....
What are you smoking, and did you bring enough for everyone? Nuclear is the most expensive power source - by far - when you actually consider all of the actual costs. Insurance, regulation, subsidization, storage of waste, refining, construction of new plants...
But safer?!? In some alternate dimension where solar plants have suffered explosions that spew radiological waste resulting in evacuations and decades of containment of the surrounding area?
Tautology that's contradicted by existing technologies that, in many cases, have been around for decades. We can dramatically reduce our energy consumption (mass transit, rail over highways, better insulation) while investing in green energy (energy needs greatest on hot, sunny days).
The way isn't the problem here, it's the will.
See this newfangled structural device that could be used for solar panels....
Nuclear power isn't cost effective - it's corporate welfare and a shiny toy for pedants.
And the cost of constructing nuclear plants - billions.
And the cost of containing nuclear waste - for hundreds of years - billions.
Per plant.
When are energy needs the greatest? On hot, sunny days.
How long will the nuclear waste from these plants have to be stored?
Less space than solar panels placed on already-existing roofs?
Like storing and monitoring nuclear waste from hundreds to thousands of years, the true cost of insurance which is born by taxpayers....
Eh, that's like saying your new house with your new shingles will weather much better than shingles put up in the 80's. Sure, your roof may be new, materials have advanced in the last 30 years - but you're still susceptible to the same problems: wind, water, snow....meltdown, waste storage...
Besides, the biggest design flaws will always be with nuclear power, no matter how advanced reactors get: human greed and hubris. The disasters at Three Mile Island, Fukishima, and Chernobyl were all avoidable with the technology available at the time. Corners will be cut to save a buck and officials will still hop back and forth between working for regulatory agencies and the companies being regulated.
And it had been hundreds of years since Japan had seen an earthquake of that magnitude in that area. What could possibly go wrong?
You mean the willful ignorance of the revolving door in nuclear power regulation or the willful ignorance of skirting safety measures to save a buck?
Then offshoring would have started immediately after WWII, not until the 80's and 90's. Why settle for third world labor with third world education and third world infrastructure when you can have at least first world education in recovering Europe, as people there would have been desperate for jobs.
It's just a crazy coincidence that our manufacturing base was moved overseas after unions were gutted, after marginal tax rates were slashed, and after "free trade" laws were passed....
Are you?
How much telecommunications infrastructure does it take to call up a factory on the other side of the planet and say "ship 10,000 widgets to New York next month"? Furthermore, you free trade apologists speak as if China and Vietnam et all all had modern infrastructure and power and telecommunications already there.
To paraphrase Bill Hicks, your rationalizations are beneath you. And thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.
Corporations use H1-B visas for the same reason they offshore: getting foreigners to do the same job for less money. Yet you never hear of VP's getting fired and replaced with cheap MBA's from India at 1/10th the cost....
Fixed that up a bit, as the whole purpose of the H1-B visa program is to depress wages. See: when companies like IBM laid off 5,000 workers while continuing to import foreign labor.
There is no shortage of engineers, only a shortage of companies willing to pay for what they want to get. But Human Resources comes to save the day - by drawing up a big list of job requirements like a graduate degree and five years experience, yet offers $40,000 to start. Then they're shocked, shocked! when they face a shortage of "qualified" American applicants and thus turn to H1-B.....
This program should have been terminated, with prejudice, after the Dot Com crash. Then again after the economy collapsed in 2008.