Nevertheless, the BBC is independant of the government and posts whatever news it wants to. It frequently posts bad things about the government without fear of being shut down.
Hey - exactly. It's a long time since I read the books and I don't think I ever really completed them or even appreciated them fully at that age. I'll get round to the Tolkien canon some time but I've got quite a pile of books forming so I look to these articles to fill in and summarise until I have the time.
Thanks for publishing your list. There are more than a few areas you mention where I was thinking along the same lines but didn't have a reference to hand. None of which greatly detracts from my enjoyment of the films, but as a fan, it's interesting to see how much license the director takes and another fan's informed opinions.
If anything, I put this together for other interested parties (i.e. other purists) to check out. It's not intended as an attack on Jackson...though I do rue a few decisions he made. I don't think that's such a crime.
I enjoyed the movies. I enjoyed reading this list. There's no need to start telling people to "get a life".
Because, frankly, I don't care that you (or the six billion plus you speak for) don't care. I liked it.
By your post you are simply a kid at best and an ignorant computer science major wannabe at worst......you neither use *BSD whatsoever... nor use *BSD 100% of the time for every task......Your high school friends or fellow freshman in college are idiots......most likely you are nothing more than some computer tech support moron who is trying to pass himself off as a real programmer/CIO/power user/etc.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll be sure to give it the consideration it's worth.
For twenty minutes. That, my friend is not a shafting of your computer. The most catastrophic failure of an OS, besides erasing the user data, occured and the machine was up and running again in twenty minutes. I think that says a lot about the simplicity of the system. The procedure to restore the system was a simple three-step procedure too boot, easily done via phone. Without destroying the system like in Dell computers. I don't know if they're like that still, but a pal got so tired of it, he bought a separate drive for user data on his Dell.
Again, with respect, I disagree. Having a system that worked be reduced to a system that hangs on reboot is 'shafted' in my opinion. If the underlying system was largely unaffected then good for you. I'm happy for you that you were able to restore it to a satisfactory state in a matter of minutes but, to my mind, it still got the shaft and required fairly technical intervention to fix. I don't want to branch off this current subject and talk about other Apple updates suffice to say that some of them did not go without a hitch and if I was an Apple user I would not be happy about that.
[snip] - support - that's good for you, shurely.
As you see, I don't argue that Apple and its products are perfect. But they are very easy to use, relatively cheap and quite sturdy. Also, they keep their value a lot better than other computers, and that gives me an edge in the upgrade cycle.
I'm not keen to open another front but I think it is suffice to say that I'm not sure if Apple ~"residual values" are that much of a boon. I think if you plan systems carefully then you can usually ameliorate the upgrade cycle.
You admit that they might be a good alternative in a lot of situations, but not all. Of course I agree to that, nothing is perfect in everything. But this system is dead-easy to use, very intuitive, has a strong user base, extremely good *nix support for professionals. There aren't a lot of areas this system wouldn't fit in. Lately, I have undertood why so many in the IT business don't like Apple. They are afraid of downsizing. Quick example: at work we do IT. The programmers, designers use Mac OS X, since they pick and maintain their own systems. The rest of us, have to use IS' XP solution. One member of the IS group has even stated that the latest worm attack was caused by a Mac program (An w2k worm), and the boss asked me if that was true because if it was we would have to ban Macs. I told him that it was a blatant lie and showed the proof. He then askedhow many viruses and worms there were for Mac, and got a bit slack-jawed when I said None for Mac OS X.
I hear that! And if you think that sucks try being a FreeBSD user reading Slashdot. (It's dead? Huh. I'm quietly confident it's not.)
I guess what I'm saying is: pick your battles. Macs aren't The Solution, like everything they have their strengths and weaknesses. I've spent literally hours been told how great Macs are and all it leaves me with is a cold feeling that Apple and it's user community could and would take much larger strides if they toned down the fervour a bit.
For me, the fact that other people I know use them gives me more free time and less irritating phonecalls. Now I can pick up the phone and know that it most likely isn't a call for help.
I have also discovered the joy of computing again, and that is important to me.
Great, good for you. I get a similar kind of feeling, myself.
I'm being honest here: the notion that I may ever "iPod my BMW" will, whenever I get round to it, be written as a clause denoting brain death in my DNR. But I would, at some point, give Macs a real go and take an interest if the community and advertising was less bombastic. And the sad thing is for you guys is that I know I'm not alone in this opinion. Please just tone it down a little. With any luck it'll spread about and you won't be t
Pretty mild namecalling. But still, I gave in to my baser impulses and shouldn't call names. So I hereby apologize for that. I'm sorry.
Thanks, apology accepted.
I bought a frickin' car. I didn't join their "community." I have found other Subaru owners that are very helpful, but that doesn't negate the fact that it would be easy for me to pick out the worst of the whole and paint them with the "dickhead" epithet. I didn't have that experience. Your idea that buying iron means you're obliged to be in a community of any kind is odd.
This is where I think the car-computer analogy goes as far as it can. If you're into a particular computer system then I think you probably want to get involved at some level in the community or even if you don't, I still think you are going to rely on the community in some capacity for help at some stage. I think this happens with cars too to some extent... people who are interested in something tend to want to learn more about it, advance their usage of it, and therefore form communities. I don't think there exists an obligation to join but I do think you miss out on a lot if you don't.
Besides, as I've written elsewhere, if you think the Mac community is nothing but mindless fanboys, you're wrong. I'd like to know where a dickhead-free body of users of any platform exists.
I don't. I've spoken at length about Apple stuff with people that clearly know their stuff. I've also been talked at by people who don't. The general trend I've observed is devotion. Which, like it or like it not, I find off-putting if it leads to the overhyping I've talked about here or elsewhere in this thread.
[snip]
I said he posed a question: 'MacOS amazes me, but not as much as peoples resistance to it amazes me.' Did you think OP was just thinking and accidentally carried on typing?
That is a statement, not a question. You can infer a question, but he didn't pose a question. Posing a question is an explicit act. Commenting on an offered opinion is not answering a question, so I don't need a question to give a response. I was just saying you didn't answer a posed question. I wouldn't even have answered this, but you challenged me and I had to preserve my honor.
Ngggh! Do we have to argue over semantics?:)
Very well. I think OP posed a question. pose. I pick 1a: to present for attention or consideration <let me pose a question>. pose I pick v.tr. 2: To set forth in words; propound: pose a question. Do I have to link to 'question' as well or are you satisfied that it's 'an expression of inquiry that invites or calls for a reply'?
Those are the two online dictionaries I use the most. If you've got another source that we can both check then let me know. I maintain that the OP posed a question. True there wasn't a question mark but I think they were wondering aloud on a public forum. For why if not to seek an answer?
I disagree. But kudos to you for assuming offence on someone else's behalf and jumping in!
Come on. Work with me. This is a public forum. You didn't write a private message, and I found it likely to be offensive (I was not personally offended.). Obviously, so did a moderator. Yet you'd rather attribute it to all those mean Mac users and not consider your own behavior.
I'm trying to. I honestly think it was neither offensive nor flamebait. And as far as I can tell neither did the person I was replying to. This is apple.slashdot, I fully expect criticism of Apple or Apple users' attitudes to be moderated such. I don't attribute that to 'mean Mac users' just retardates in general. I think
OK, Mr. Hairsplitter, let me amend my comment to be more precise:
Oh good: opening with name calling.
Choosing to resist a type of computer because you don't like the attitude of some of its users is pretty stupid.
Not really, no. It's been my experience so far that the best judges of a system are the users (as opposed to the manufacturers, adverts, limited reviews, people responsible for their purchase etc.). If I don't trust their judgement because it appears flawed then I reserve the right to resist (in the sense that I choose not to buy one and if someone asks my opinion on them I'll answer how I please). Another experience of mine is that, in some way, belonging to a community surrounding a system is also very helpful. If I don't like the vociferous users in a community I choose not to want to join in.
There. It still works.
No, it really doesn't. It's not 'stupid' either.
It's simply that I find a lot of the users' advocacy myopic and off-putting.
OK, but how does that indicate anything at all about the platform's usefulness to you? When I was car shopping, I went to a Subaru user's board and thought most of the people there were arrogant dickheads. Didn't stop me from considering, and buying, a Subaru.
Really. Are you going to want to join their community then? Are you going to want to go to them for help, tips, advice? Are you honestly telling me that on finding a board full of Subaru-owning (/Subaru fanboys(?)) 'arrogant dickheads' you wanted in on that experience?
I'm not sure the computer-car analog fits all that well here... but if you don't like the users and you have a viable alternative option you consider to be as good then the user community itself becomes a factor.
And tellingly, I dare to post this opinion, I answer a posed question, and it's 'flamebait'.
You didn't answer a posed question. I went back and looked at said flamebait's parent, and it doesn't even contain a single question mark.
Interesting criterion for determining if a question has been asked. Feel free to omit a reply to this if you can't find a question in my previous sentence to answer. I said he posed a question: 'MacOS amazes me, but not as much as peoples resistance to it amazes me.' Did you think OP was just thinking and accidentally carried on typing?
You just wrote a really insulting response to someone else's opinion.
I disagree. But kudos to you for assuming offence on someone else's behalf and jumping in!
That's not just a neutral opinion, and it could reasonably be contrued as flamebait (Here's a free tip: you are usually in flamebait territory whenever you use the phrase "people like you.").
Firstly, I don't think you're in a position to be handing out 'free tips'. But then again: who'd pay.
Secondly, I said 'people like you' because that's what I meant. I was specifically talking about users like the OP. If you want to read an offensive connotation into that or see that as 'flamebait' then that's really up to you. As it happens it has sparked off a discussion between myself and OP. I don't see any flames there... but I guess it's all subjective.
But you just go ahead and enjoy thinking you're being persecuted for nobly standing up for truth.
But here's the point: it didn't shaft my computer.
Respectfully, I disagree. You said that the security update you applied overwrote files causing the system to hang on reboot. I know you were able to pull out some discs and fix the error but nevertheless the update did render your computer unusable. I think it's largely irrelevant that you were able to fix it easily because that must take into account your abilities (if you're particularly adept at some subject then everything is easy; if you wanted it to "just work" then it didn't). What I do know is that I wouldn't be happy that I had to fix it in the first place and that somebody else clearly didn't find it so easy to fix. Not using a Mac day-to-day I don't know if this sort of solution is common knowledge but it doesn't look like it.
What I'm saying, as I said before, is that I find it weird that anyone would appear to be happy that they found it relatively easy to fix a problem that should never have occurred in the first place.
[snip] - I generally agree with everything up to...
And most important; currently they are an underdog that has to fight to convince people about their products.
I think it's great that there's a community that believe in their systems and even champion their cause. You're one of the more level-headed I've spoken with. But I think it's profoundly detrimental to whatever goals it (Apple & community) may have that it should breed such rabid apologists and intolerance to criticism. You say they have to 'fight' to convince people about their products (a task also taken to by their user community). Tone down the rhetoric a touch and more people will listen.
[snip]
But, above all, I do not believe that Apple is perfect in any way. They are just currently the best alternative by far.
For you.
It's things like this. And BTW it's a good job I don't give a crap about karma:) They're not the best alternative by far. They maybe a good alternative in a lot of situations but they're most emphatically not The Solution.
Here are a few things I (I, me, personally) don't like. They're not cheap. Don't give me the spiel about being able to run the latest and greatest on older models: I've seen it and it's not pretty. If I want Unix (and I do) I run a *BSD which allows me to offset my knowledge in setting up and running against cost. I don't like the all-in-one monitor boxes of some models. Yes, I've heard from Apple fans that they're easily upgradable and expandable internally; no, I never bought it. And shock, horror(!):) I don't even like some of the design. These are just a few things off the top of my head... but they do factor in my purchasing decisions.
Here's a true story that should go some way to explaining my views. One friend of mine was telling me about his new Windows XP box that was the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use. A couple of weeks later he was reinstalling. A while ago another friend was showing off a RedHat 9 box. It too was the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use. While he was swivelled round on his chair talking to me it kernel panicked and crashed. More recently, another friend was demonstrating his Apple laptop running OS X. Do I need to tell you it too was: the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use? A nasty graphics bug (large "unpainted" section of the screen after viewing some photos) covered a significant portion of the screen and refused to go away. The look on his face, I can only describe as wounded terror. The moral of this story is don't overhype your system, and especially: don't always defend it to the hilt.
If there's something good about someone's system: I'm interested. If there's nothing bad about someone's system: I'm not.
MacOS amazes me, but not as much as peoples resistance to it amazes me.
Why? A security update shafted your only computer but you appear pleased that it was only somewhat shafted and unusable.
I can't speak for everyone else but I can tell you why I resist Macs: it's because of people like you. Frankly, I find your amazement at MacOS and blind belief in Apple frightening. And when I read accounts like yours I genuinely wonder if some sort of brainwashing was involved.
I'm not really the best person to ask about the Darwin thing because without ever having tried it out I don't really feel qualified to comment in any depth. Although AFAIK the main development centres on OpenDarwin (OpenDarwin.org) with various offshoots complementing the original Darwin project (fink.sf.net , XDarwin.org). As for the x86 emulating PowerPC scene I think PearPC (PearPC.net) seems to be _the_ place. But I'm afraid I'm something of an Apple-phobe (like the hardware but think it's sold at a high premium; like the concepts; can't stand the overzealous Apple advocates).
Typing 'q' to exit man: yeah I can see what you mean. The thing is man uses whatever pager you have set. So typically you're viewing man pages with less or more. And because I use less to view text files I soon learned what most of the keys do. But I still hit 'h' for help every now and then. It can be confusing. If you really want to drive yourself nuts try using vi to edit something. But don't enter into vi lightly and especially not without knowing to press [Esc] [:] [q] [!] in sequence to exit (without saving) - no, I'm not kidding! Some people make the argument that it's important to learn things like vi because sometimes that's all you'll have to work with. I tend to think it's a cruel and unusual punishment but I can see their point. So I'll learn to use all of it properly one day but stick to something like ee easy editor in the mean time.
One idea I had a while back was to alias *nix commands to their dos equivalents e.g. (off the top of my head)
but I soon just adapted without this (apart from cls - I habitually flick that in for some reason). Of course as I switch from one environment to another I invariably dir or ls in error if I'm not thinking. But any learning curve is soon offset whenever I need to write a little script to do something and get nasty flashbacks of DOS batch files and monkeying around with weird for loops, errorlevels, and gotos. Using *nix means I've got access to multiple scripting languages and syntax I'm more familiar with.
I'm with you on your rant! The ideal system _should_ shield newbies from that point where you've no idea what to do next or really what you're doing and if it might prove dangerous. Unix has that to a certain extent by being designed as a mulitple user OS where theoretically you need root to really shaft things. But at some point you're always going to have to use that power to make important changes. One thing's for sure: being dumped in a *nix shell with no GUI backup and all the associated help features that that can bring is not always easy for beginners. At the other end of the scale I'm often driven half crazy by some software features that are designed to help and be user friendly. This depends on what I'm trying to achieve, but generally I'd say give me command line options over dialog checkboxes and "wizards" any day! I've done a bit of Human Computer Interaction before and the holy grail is an OS that provides both ease-of-use for newbies and extended options for the more adept. Some say it's OSX. I choose not to comment:) IMO, it's not setting up a *BSD system for the first time - I think you have to really want to learn (but that said, once up and running and if it booted straight into a desktop like KDE that'd be a lot closer to that goal).
Re: handbook. Yeah the handbook is really good like that. Even if you just want to pick up a few Unix basics it's a good read because a lot of the stuff is portable to similar systems. I guess you might find some *BSD users / "gurus/wizards" not that newbie friendly... sometimes I see one word answers (typically a command or man section) and RTFM (where it wouldn't have killed the replier to elaborate a little). Personally, I haven't had that experience but
There's another guy collecting suggestions too - I saw it someone's.sig - slashdotemail@gmail.com I think. I have no idea what he's going to do with them but I sent him a few and he thanked me for the list. I think I suggested 'Smartdot'.
I think the Darwin thing is coming on and making advancements. I had a skim of an O'Reilly book 'OSX for Unix Geeks' and it had a chapter on getting X up and running... using Fink(?) which I think maybe be similar to Gentoo emerge (back on topic!). Looks like they might have KDE working as well.
As for the *BSDs Free, Open, Net etc. if you liked DOS then you should get on just fine. It can take a while to get to know the *nix alernatives to DOS commands and where things are kept but I found it soon becomes comfortable. And the best thing is that you're soon able to weild the power and then you don't want to go back! I don't know if this works for you - but I've found keeping a notebook can be really handy for esoteric command switches, useful sequences of piped commands, temporary changes I'm not sure about etc. Just a thought - it's saved me a lot of time.
If you do decide to give FreeBSD a whirl I recommend going through the handbook as it covers a lot of Unix basics as well. FreeBSDDiary is well worth a look too. If it wasn't for a few big commercial programs I could happily switch from XP to FreeBSD and KDE. These days it's that good.
No beer, no foul? Think yourself lucky emerge tried to hump my leg:(
Posters being able to mod' down their own comments: great idea! That's a good suggestion for that guy who's asking for ideas on how to remake Slashdot.
Gentoo emerge: yeah I like their Portage thing. I've never really used Gentoo but I've had it recommended to me several times - which is when I heard about their ports thing. If I ever get round to it, Gentoo would be something I'd like to try (along with maybe LFS and Slack).
However, FreeBSD makes me very happy - it has the excellent ports collection (similar to Gentoo's Portage) and it's typically a real pleasure to use. Once you get into it, the syntax isn't really a problem. Occasionally I pull up a man page or two (another good thing on FreeBSD) but that's it. The only thing I find is that if I haven't installed anything for a while I get out of the habit of updating things and running checks (but that's just me being lazy really.)
I honestly wouldn't prefer a GUI for ports (even though I use Windows XP on a daily basis too). FreeBSD is just so well laid out in/usr/ports that it's quicker to type. Sometimes I reference the ports page or the relevant section of the handbook. It might look a bit daunting at first but for typical usage it's just cvsup to update the ports skeleton on the local box and then portupgrade (or cd'ing to the directory in the skeleton ports tree) to install your stuff and then a bit of housekeeping. Or there's sysinstall. I'd imagine emerge would be similar fare (the quality of either ports system depends on the port maintainers who keep the ports up-to-date and do any necessary customization).
But hey - if emerge this-is-cool delivered a cold one to my desk I'd have Gentoo up and running by tomorrow(!) and looping that line in a little script!
And with that, off I go; I've still got to rely on sneakernet to fetch my beer:)
I see what you're saying. It'd be nice if someone always had the patience to ask "why?" but I think the onus remains with the poster to elaborate.
Sometimes 'overrated' goes hand-in-hand with 'punishment' (of sorts). For instance, today I moderated a post down that had been moderated up to '+4 Informative' (IIRC) as 'Overrated' because it was factually, and therefore totally, incorrect. The poster of that comment was corrected and then asked for their earlier post to be moderated down. I know trying to stop the spread of FUD and untruths on somewhere like/. is probably in wikipedia as a definition for 'futility' but in lieu of a 'Wrong' moderation, 'Overrated' is probably the best alternative for people that don't seeing 'informative' posts at +5 because people moderating don't know any better. That's just spreading stupidity!
Okay, why IS Emerge cool? (And for that matter, what is it?:)
Seriously? It's a Gentoo Linux thing. In simple terms emerge is an installer. AFAIK it's similar to the ports / packages system in FreeBSD (actually, maybe it's closer to portupgrade). It provides a relatively easy way to configure and install stuff (because it handles compilation, dependency checking, installation etc.) It is pretty cool (because it takes the headaches out of installing stuff).
I think what the original poster was saying with
emerge this-is-cool
was: "I'll install / try this (Gentoo 2005) out because I think it's cool."
Or maybe there's something in Gentoo's Portage called "this-is-cool" and the poster flicked between xterms at an inopportune moment and posted to Slashdot. We may never know!
As a good poster, you earned a bonus: you are allowed to speak slightly "louder" than other people. In most cases, this is because you've earned it. But with that right comes a responsibility - you have to justify that bonus score. The louder you speak, the more likely you are to be moderated down, unless you're sufficiently interesting to prompt the moderators to let you keep your bonus score. This is how the system is designed to work: you can't just rack up karma, and then post nonsense.
Personally, I mod' things as overrated when I think they are just that. Chances are that _if_ I'd have seen the "emerge is cool" post early on and _if_ it had a value of 2 I'd have thought that was overrated. What does that one-liner add to the discussion?
Somebody, somewhere thinks something is cool. Well... great. No explanation why they think it's cool. No insight offered. No interesting snippet of information imparted. There's a place where people can log their unqualified opinions and every waking thoughts: blogs.
Evidently, there's aleady a tried and tested way to distribute TV shows.
Why should they waste more license-payers money developing their own? That's not clever at all.
Besides have you seen the quality of shows the BBC has produced recently? For every gem there are ninety-nine turds.
They're turning up long after the party started and they've brought shitty refreshments that they'll only share if you take them exactly as they prescribe.
Man, if only BitTorrent was feasible when MST3K was around.
Yeah but at least it is now and the tape trading scene surrounding it has embraced it. Visual quality can sometimes be a bit dubious as most of the stuff is from VHS rips but they're all sized nicely so each show fits on a CD.
There seems to be an agreement that nothing commercially avaialble is traded (i.e. the shows that made it to DVD). Seems fair.
Suprnova seems to have the entire season 1 and season 2 episodes available.
It will probably just adapt and become more objectionable. It's too lucrative a practice for it not to do so.
There are already alternatives out there that supplement the advert breaks and no doubt there are more in development. Product placement, for example, would probably increase.
Popular programmes are now "sponsored by _____" such and such a product with advertising shown between the programme and the advert breaks themselves.
A lot of TV is now branded with a permanent logo. To advertising people this is probably just more space they could fill and sell. I wouldn't be surprised if ticker tape displays or banners were introduced either.
You're dealing with the sort of people that thought subliminal advertising was a good idea and make the adverts sound louder than the TV shows. There is no ultimate low.
Sometimes I wonder if you should have a test to operate/own a PC...
From your description it appears that the test was practical-based and your friend failed. The result being he effectively revoked his own privileges as a user - usable speed, 'net connection etc.
Sounds like the test worked just fine. Would that this self-policing outcome be the default for all ignorant people using computers and the clueless simply disconnect themselves from the Internet.
Slashdot Mirror
Pearl Harbour? Daredevil? In a Top 50?
Ever heard the expression 'you can't polish a turd'?
From the site:
PEARL HARBOUR
You'll be checking your carpet for water.
Because you'll soil yourself in protest?
Ha!
Tell it to Greg Dyke.
Hey - exactly. It's a long time since I read the books and I don't think I ever really completed them or even appreciated them fully at that age. I'll get round to the Tolkien canon some time but I've got quite a pile of books forming so I look to these articles to fill in and summarise until I have the time.
Thanks for publishing your list. There are more than a few areas you mention where I was thinking along the same lines but didn't have a reference to hand. None of which greatly detracts from my enjoyment of the films, but as a fan, it's interesting to see how much license the director takes and another fan's informed opinions.
FTFA:
I enjoyed the movies. I enjoyed reading this list. There's no need to start telling people to "get a life".
Because, frankly, I don't care that you (or the six billion plus you speak for) don't care. I liked it.
By your post you are simply a kid at best and an ignorant computer science major wannabe at worst... ...you neither use *BSD whatsoever... nor use *BSD 100% of the time for every task... ...Your high school friends or fellow freshman in college are idiots... ...most likely you are nothing more than some computer tech support moron who is trying to pass himself off as a real programmer/CIO/power user/etc.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll be sure to give it the consideration it's worth.
Happy Christmas!
You missed "times infinity... squared!"
I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything! :)
For twenty minutes. That, my friend is not a shafting of your computer. The most catastrophic failure of an OS, besides erasing the user data, occured and the machine was up and running again in twenty minutes. I think that says a lot about the simplicity of the system. The procedure to restore the system was a simple three-step procedure too boot, easily done via phone. Without destroying the system like in Dell computers. I don't know if they're like that still, but a pal got so tired of it, he bought a separate drive for user data on his Dell.
Again, with respect, I disagree. Having a system that worked be reduced to a system that hangs on reboot is 'shafted' in my opinion. If the underlying system was largely unaffected then good for you. I'm happy for you that you were able to restore it to a satisfactory state in a matter of minutes but, to my mind, it still got the shaft and required fairly technical intervention to fix. I don't want to branch off this current subject and talk about other Apple updates suffice to say that some of them did not go without a hitch and if I was an Apple user I would not be happy about that.
[snip] - support - that's good for you, shurely.
As you see, I don't argue that Apple and its products are perfect. But they are very easy to use, relatively cheap and quite sturdy. Also, they keep their value a lot better than other computers, and that gives me an edge in the upgrade cycle.
I'm not keen to open another front but I think it is suffice to say that I'm not sure if Apple ~"residual values" are that much of a boon. I think if you plan systems carefully then you can usually ameliorate the upgrade cycle.
You admit that they might be a good alternative in a lot of situations, but not all. Of course I agree to that, nothing is perfect in everything. But this system is dead-easy to use, very intuitive, has a strong user base, extremely good *nix support for professionals. There aren't a lot of areas this system wouldn't fit in. Lately, I have undertood why so many in the IT business don't like Apple. They are afraid of downsizing. Quick example: at work we do IT. The programmers, designers use Mac OS X, since they pick and maintain their own systems. The rest of us, have to use IS' XP solution. One member of the IS group has even stated that the latest worm attack was caused by a Mac program (An w2k worm), and the boss asked me if that was true because if it was we would have to ban Macs. I told him that it was a blatant lie and showed the proof. He then askedhow many viruses and worms there were for Mac, and got a bit slack-jawed when I said None for Mac OS X.
I hear that! And if you think that sucks try being a FreeBSD user reading Slashdot. (It's dead? Huh. I'm quietly confident it's not.)
I guess what I'm saying is: pick your battles. Macs aren't The Solution, like everything they have their strengths and weaknesses. I've spent literally hours been told how great Macs are and all it leaves me with is a cold feeling that Apple and it's user community could and would take much larger strides if they toned down the fervour a bit.
For me, the fact that other people I know use them gives me more free time and less irritating phonecalls. Now I can pick up the phone and know that it most likely isn't a call for help.
I have also discovered the joy of computing again, and that is important to me.
Great, good for you. I get a similar kind of feeling, myself.
I'm being honest here: the notion that I may ever "iPod my BMW" will, whenever I get round to it, be written as a clause denoting brain death in my DNR. But I would, at some point, give Macs a real go and take an interest if the community and advertising was less bombastic. And the sad thing is for you guys is that I know I'm not alone in this opinion. Please just tone it down a little. With any luck it'll spread about and you won't be t
Pretty mild namecalling. But still, I gave in to my baser impulses and shouldn't call names. So I hereby apologize for that. I'm sorry.
Thanks, apology accepted.
I bought a frickin' car. I didn't join their "community." I have found other Subaru owners that are very helpful, but that doesn't negate the fact that it would be easy for me to pick out the worst of the whole and paint them with the "dickhead" epithet. I didn't have that experience. Your idea that buying iron means you're obliged to be in a community of any kind is odd.
This is where I think the car-computer analogy goes as far as it can. If you're into a particular computer system then I think you probably want to get involved at some level in the community or even if you don't, I still think you are going to rely on the community in some capacity for help at some stage. I think this happens with cars too to some extent... people who are interested in something tend to want to learn more about it, advance their usage of it, and therefore form communities. I don't think there exists an obligation to join but I do think you miss out on a lot if you don't.
Besides, as I've written elsewhere, if you think the Mac community is nothing but mindless fanboys, you're wrong. I'd like to know where a dickhead-free body of users of any platform exists.
I don't. I've spoken at length about Apple stuff with people that clearly know their stuff. I've also been talked at by people who don't. The general trend I've observed is devotion. Which, like it or like it not, I find off-putting if it leads to the overhyping I've talked about here or elsewhere in this thread.
That is a statement, not a question. You can infer a question, but he didn't pose a question. Posing a question is an explicit act. Commenting on an offered opinion is not answering a question, so I don't need a question to give a response. I was just saying you didn't answer a posed question. I wouldn't even have answered this, but you challenged me and I had to preserve my honor.
Ngggh! Do we have to argue over semantics? :)
Very well. I think OP posed a question.
pose. I pick 1a: to present for attention or consideration <let me pose a question>.
pose I pick v.tr. 2: To set forth in words; propound: pose a question.
Do I have to link to 'question' as well or are you satisfied that it's 'an expression of inquiry that invites or calls for a reply'?
Those are the two online dictionaries I use the most. If you've got another source that we can both check then let me know. I maintain that the OP posed a question. True there wasn't a question mark but I think they were wondering aloud on a public forum. For why if not to seek an answer?
Come on. Work with me. This is a public forum. You didn't write a private message, and I found it likely to be offensive (I was not personally offended.). Obviously, so did a moderator. Yet you'd rather attribute it to all those mean Mac users and not consider your own behavior.
I'm trying to. I honestly think it was neither offensive nor flamebait. And as far as I can tell neither did the person I was replying to. This is apple.slashdot, I fully expect criticism of Apple or Apple users' attitudes to be moderated such. I don't attribute that to 'mean Mac users' just retardates in general. I think
OK, Mr. Hairsplitter, let me amend my comment to be more precise:
Oh good: opening with name calling.
Choosing to resist a type of computer because you don't like the attitude of some of its users is pretty stupid.
Not really, no. It's been my experience so far that the best judges of a system are the users (as opposed to the manufacturers, adverts, limited reviews, people responsible for their purchase etc.). If I don't trust their judgement because it appears flawed then I reserve the right to resist (in the sense that I choose not to buy one and if someone asks my opinion on them I'll answer how I please). Another experience of mine is that, in some way, belonging to a community surrounding a system is also very helpful. If I don't like the vociferous users in a community I choose not to want to join in.
There. It still works.
No, it really doesn't. It's not 'stupid' either.
OK, but how does that indicate anything at all about the platform's usefulness to you? When I was car shopping, I went to a Subaru user's board and thought most of the people there were arrogant dickheads. Didn't stop me from considering, and buying, a Subaru.
Really. Are you going to want to join their community then? Are you going to want to go to them for help, tips, advice? Are you honestly telling me that on finding a board full of Subaru-owning (/Subaru fanboys(?)) 'arrogant dickheads' you wanted in on that experience?
I'm not sure the computer-car analog fits all that well here... but if you don't like the users and you have a viable alternative option you consider to be as good then the user community itself becomes a factor.
You didn't answer a posed question. I went back and looked at said flamebait's parent, and it doesn't even contain a single question mark.
Interesting criterion for determining if a question has been asked. Feel free to omit a reply to this if you can't find a question in my previous sentence to answer. I said he posed a question: 'MacOS amazes me, but not as much as peoples resistance to it amazes me.' Did you think OP was just thinking and accidentally carried on typing?
You just wrote a really insulting response to someone else's opinion.
I disagree. But kudos to you for assuming offence on someone else's behalf and jumping in!
That's not just a neutral opinion, and it could reasonably be contrued as flamebait (Here's a free tip: you are usually in flamebait territory whenever you use the phrase "people like you.").
Firstly, I don't think you're in a position to be handing out 'free tips'. But then again: who'd pay.
Secondly, I said 'people like you' because that's what I meant. I was specifically talking about users like the OP. If you want to read an offensive connotation into that or see that as 'flamebait' then that's really up to you. As it happens it has sparked off a discussion between myself and OP. I don't see any flames there... but I guess it's all subjective.
But you just go ahead and enjoy thinking you're being persecuted for nobly standing up for truth.
Ha! Hardly. They're just my opinions.
But here's the point: it didn't shaft my computer.
Respectfully, I disagree. You said that the security update you applied overwrote files causing the system to hang on reboot. I know you were able to pull out some discs and fix the error but nevertheless the update did render your computer unusable. I think it's largely irrelevant that you were able to fix it easily because that must take into account your abilities (if you're particularly adept at some subject then everything is easy; if you wanted it to "just work" then it didn't). What I do know is that I wouldn't be happy that I had to fix it in the first place and that somebody else clearly didn't find it so easy to fix. Not using a Mac day-to-day I don't know if this sort of solution is common knowledge but it doesn't look like it.
What I'm saying, as I said before, is that I find it weird that anyone would appear to be happy that they found it relatively easy to fix a problem that should never have occurred in the first place.
[snip] - I generally agree with everything up to...
And most important; currently they are an underdog that has to fight to convince people about their products.
I think it's great that there's a community that believe in their systems and even champion their cause. You're one of the more level-headed I've spoken with. But I think it's profoundly detrimental to whatever goals it (Apple & community) may have that it should breed such rabid apologists and intolerance to criticism. You say they have to 'fight' to convince people about their products (a task also taken to by their user community). Tone down the rhetoric a touch and more people will listen.
[snip]
But, above all, I do not believe that Apple is perfect in any way. They are just currently the best alternative by far.
For you.
It's things like this. And BTW it's a good job I don't give a crap about karma :) They're not the best alternative by far. They maybe a good alternative in a lot of situations but they're most emphatically not The Solution.
Here are a few things I (I, me, personally) don't like. They're not cheap. Don't give me the spiel about being able to run the latest and greatest on older models: I've seen it and it's not pretty. If I want Unix (and I do) I run a *BSD which allows me to offset my knowledge in setting up and running against cost. I don't like the all-in-one monitor boxes of some models. Yes, I've heard from Apple fans that they're easily upgradable and expandable internally; no, I never bought it. And shock, horror(!) :) I don't even like some of the design. These are just a few things off the top of my head... but they do factor in my purchasing decisions.
Here's a true story that should go some way to explaining my views. One friend of mine was telling me about his new Windows XP box that was the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use. A couple of weeks later he was reinstalling. A while ago another friend was showing off a RedHat 9 box. It too was the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use. While he was swivelled round on his chair talking to me it kernel panicked and crashed. More recently, another friend was demonstrating his Apple laptop running OS X. Do I need to tell you it too was: the best thing ever, rock stable, never crashed, and easy to use? A nasty graphics bug (large "unpainted" section of the screen after viewing some photos) covered a significant portion of the screen and refused to go away. The look on his face, I can only describe as wounded terror. The moral of this story is don't overhype your system, and especially: don't always defend it to the hilt.
If there's something good about someone's system: I'm interested. If there's nothing bad about someone's system: I'm not.
Yes it is but that's _not_ what I said.
'...I can tell you why I resist Macs'...
That's not: refuse to use; have never used; will never own; will recoil whenever I see one.
It's simply that I find a lot of the users' advocacy myopic and off-putting.
And tellingly, I dare to post this opinion, I answer a posed question, and it's 'flamebait'.
Why? A security update shafted your only computer but you appear pleased that it was only somewhat shafted and unusable.
I can't speak for everyone else but I can tell you why I resist Macs: it's because of people like you. Frankly, I find your amazement at MacOS and blind belief in Apple frightening. And when I read accounts like yours I genuinely wonder if some sort of brainwashing was involved.
I'm not really the best person to ask about the Darwin thing because without ever having tried it out I don't really feel qualified to comment in any depth. Although AFAIK the main development centres on OpenDarwin (OpenDarwin.org) with various offshoots complementing the original Darwin project (fink.sf.net , XDarwin.org). As for the x86 emulating PowerPC scene I think PearPC (PearPC.net) seems to be _the_ place. But I'm afraid I'm something of an Apple-phobe (like the hardware but think it's sold at a high premium; like the concepts; can't stand the overzealous Apple advocates).
Typing 'q' to exit man: yeah I can see what you mean. The thing is man uses whatever pager you have set. So typically you're viewing man pages with less or more. And because I use less to view text files I soon learned what most of the keys do. But I still hit 'h' for help every now and then. It can be confusing. If you really want to drive yourself nuts try using vi to edit something. But don't enter into vi lightly and especially not without knowing to press [Esc] [:] [q] [!] in sequence to exit (without saving) - no, I'm not kidding! Some people make the argument that it's important to learn things like vi because sometimes that's all you'll have to work with. I tend to think it's a cruel and unusual punishment but I can see their point. So I'll learn to use all of it properly one day but stick to something like ee easy editor in the mean time.
One idea I had a while back was to alias *nix commands to their dos equivalents e.g. (off the top of my head)
but I soon just adapted without this (apart from cls - I habitually flick that in for some reason). Of course as I switch from one environment to another I invariably dir or ls in error if I'm not thinking. But any learning curve is soon offset whenever I need to write a little script to do something and get nasty flashbacks of DOS batch files and monkeying around with weird for loops, errorlevels, and gotos. Using *nix means I've got access to multiple scripting languages and syntax I'm more familiar with.
I'm with you on your rant! The ideal system _should_ shield newbies from that point where you've no idea what to do next or really what you're doing and if it might prove dangerous. Unix has that to a certain extent by being designed as a mulitple user OS where theoretically you need root to really shaft things. But at some point you're always going to have to use that power to make important changes. One thing's for sure: being dumped in a *nix shell with no GUI backup and all the associated help features that that can bring is not always easy for beginners. At the other end of the scale I'm often driven half crazy by some software features that are designed to help and be user friendly. This depends on what I'm trying to achieve, but generally I'd say give me command line options over dialog checkboxes and "wizards" any day! I've done a bit of Human Computer Interaction before and the holy grail is an OS that provides both ease-of-use for newbies and extended options for the more adept. Some say it's OSX. I choose not to comment:) IMO, it's not setting up a *BSD system for the first time - I think you have to really want to learn (but that said, once up and running and if it booted straight into a desktop like KDE that'd be a lot closer to that goal).
Re: handbook. Yeah the handbook is really good like that. Even if you just want to pick up a few Unix basics it's a good read because a lot of the stuff is portable to similar systems. I guess you might find some *BSD users / "gurus/wizards" not that newbie friendly... sometimes I see one word answers (typically a command or man section) and RTFM (where it wouldn't have killed the replier to elaborate a little). Personally, I haven't had that experience but
There's another guy collecting suggestions too - I saw it someone's .sig - slashdotemail@gmail.com I think. I have no idea what he's going to do with them but I sent him a few and he thanked me for the list. I think I suggested 'Smartdot'.
I think the Darwin thing is coming on and making advancements. I had a skim of an O'Reilly book 'OSX for Unix Geeks' and it had a chapter on getting X up and running... using Fink(?) which I think maybe be similar to Gentoo emerge (back on topic!). Looks like they might have KDE working as well.
As for the *BSDs Free, Open, Net etc. if you liked DOS then you should get on just fine. It can take a while to get to know the *nix alernatives to DOS commands and where things are kept but I found it soon becomes comfortable. And the best thing is that you're soon able to weild the power and then you don't want to go back! I don't know if this works for you - but I've found keeping a notebook can be really handy for esoteric command switches, useful sequences of piped commands, temporary changes I'm not sure about etc. Just a thought - it's saved me a lot of time.
If you do decide to give FreeBSD a whirl I recommend going through the handbook as it covers a lot of Unix basics as well. FreeBSDDiary is well worth a look too. If it wasn't for a few big commercial programs I could happily switch from XP to FreeBSD and KDE. These days it's that good.
No beer, no foul? Think yourself lucky emerge tried to hump my leg :(
Posters being able to mod' down their own comments: great idea! That's a good suggestion for that guy who's asking for ideas on how to remake Slashdot.
Gentoo emerge: yeah I like their Portage thing. I've never really used Gentoo but I've had it recommended to me several times - which is when I heard about their ports thing. If I ever get round to it, Gentoo would be something I'd like to try (along with maybe LFS and Slack).
However, FreeBSD makes me very happy - it has the excellent ports collection (similar to Gentoo's Portage) and it's typically a real pleasure to use. Once you get into it, the syntax isn't really a problem. Occasionally I pull up a man page or two (another good thing on FreeBSD) but that's it. The only thing I find is that if I haven't installed anything for a while I get out of the habit of updating things and running checks (but that's just me being lazy really.)
I honestly wouldn't prefer a GUI for ports (even though I use Windows XP on a daily basis too). FreeBSD is just so well laid out in /usr/ports that it's quicker to type. Sometimes I reference the ports page or the relevant section of the handbook. It might look a bit daunting at first but for typical usage it's just cvsup to update the ports skeleton on the local box and then portupgrade (or cd'ing to the directory in the skeleton ports tree) to install your stuff and then a bit of housekeeping. Or there's sysinstall. I'd imagine emerge would be similar fare (the quality of either ports system depends on the port maintainers who keep the ports up-to-date and do any necessary customization).
But hey - if emerge this-is-cool delivered a cold one to my desk I'd have Gentoo up and running by tomorrow(!) and looping that line in a little script!
And with that, off I go; I've still got to rely on sneakernet to fetch my beer :)
I see what you're saying. It'd be nice if someone always had the patience to ask "why?" but I think the onus remains with the poster to elaborate.
Sometimes 'overrated' goes hand-in-hand with 'punishment' (of sorts). For instance, today I moderated a post down that had been moderated up to '+4 Informative' (IIRC) as 'Overrated' because it was factually, and therefore totally, incorrect. The poster of that comment was corrected and then asked for their earlier post to be moderated down. I know trying to stop the spread of FUD and untruths on somewhere like /. is probably in wikipedia as a definition for 'futility' but in lieu of a 'Wrong' moderation, 'Overrated' is probably the best alternative for people that don't seeing 'informative' posts at +5 because people moderating don't know any better. That's just spreading stupidity!
Okay, why IS Emerge cool? (And for that matter, what is it? :)
Seriously? It's a Gentoo Linux thing. In simple terms emerge is an installer. AFAIK it's similar to the ports / packages system in FreeBSD (actually, maybe it's closer to portupgrade). It provides a relatively easy way to configure and install stuff (because it handles compilation, dependency checking, installation etc.) It is pretty cool (because it takes the headaches out of installing stuff).
I think what the original poster was saying with
was: "I'll install / try this (Gentoo 2005) out because I think it's cool."
Or maybe there's something in Gentoo's Portage called "this-is-cool" and the poster flicked between xterms at an inopportune moment and posted to Slashdot. We may never know!
And the FAQ says:
As a good poster, you earned a bonus: you are allowed to speak slightly "louder" than other people. In most cases, this is because you've earned it. But with that right comes a responsibility - you have to justify that bonus score. The louder you speak, the more likely you are to be moderated down, unless you're sufficiently interesting to prompt the moderators to let you keep your bonus score. This is how the system is designed to work: you can't just rack up karma, and then post nonsense.
Personally, I mod' things as overrated when I think they are just that. Chances are that _if_ I'd have seen the "emerge is cool" post early on and _if_ it had a value of 2 I'd have thought that was overrated. What does that one-liner add to the discussion?
Somebody, somewhere thinks something is cool. Well... great. No explanation why they think it's cool. No insight offered. No interesting snippet of information imparted. There's a place where people can log their unqualified opinions and every waking thoughts: blogs.
Evidently, there's aleady a tried and tested way to distribute TV shows.
Why should they waste more license-payers money developing their own? That's not clever at all.
Besides have you seen the quality of shows the BBC has produced recently? For every gem there are ninety-nine turds.
They're turning up long after the party started and they've brought shitty refreshments that they'll only share if you take them exactly as they prescribe.
Yeah but at least it is now and the tape trading scene surrounding it has embraced it. Visual quality can sometimes be a bit dubious as most of the stuff is from VHS rips but they're all sized nicely so each show fits on a CD.
There seems to be an agreement that nothing commercially avaialble is traded (i.e. the shows that made it to DVD). Seems fair.
Suprnova seems to have the entire season 1 and season 2 episodes available.
And in some cases before it even gets aired in the US... today, for example.
It will probably just adapt and become more objectionable. It's too lucrative a practice for it not to do so.
There are already alternatives out there that supplement the advert breaks and no doubt there are more in development. Product placement, for example, would probably increase.
Popular programmes are now "sponsored by _____" such and such a product with advertising shown between the programme and the advert breaks themselves.
A lot of TV is now branded with a permanent logo. To advertising people this is probably just more space they could fill and sell. I wouldn't be surprised if ticker tape displays or banners were introduced either.
You're dealing with the sort of people that thought subliminal advertising was a good idea and make the adverts sound louder than the TV shows. There is no ultimate low.
From your description it appears that the test was practical-based and your friend failed. The result being he effectively revoked his own privileges as a user - usable speed, 'net connection etc.
Sounds like the test worked just fine. Would that this self-policing outcome be the default for all ignorant people using computers and the clueless simply disconnect themselves from the Internet.
Stop it - you're making Rob Smith cry!
(This may or may not be funny - as evidenced above I have oh so little idea about what I'm talking about.)