business doesn't work on moral grounds, it works on legal grounds.
Finally you see my point.
I operate on my own moral beleifs. I'm sorry if they don't intersect with yours or the law. I'll do it even if I get in trouble because of it. I know I support artists. That's all I need to know. I know I don't support the RIAA. That's all they need to know. I'll be damned if I am going to be stopped from enjoying an artists work because I haven't paid for a license to enjoy it. I will, on the other hand, support an artists hard work by going to concerts. Being called a thieving bastard because I download music off the internet is a cheap shot. I am probably one of the most honest and generous people you could get to know. I just don't lay down for corporations because they want me to. Sue me.
You obviously didn't stop to think about it. A cure is a one time thing. Treatments can last a lifetime. Where's the money now? Pharmaceutical companies are MARKETING medicine like it's cola. Tell me with a straight face that there isn't something wrong with that.
If the artists don't want to exchange ideas freely, then you cannot force them to do so.
THE ARTISTS DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM CD SALES! Besides that I am not forcing artists to do a damn thing. I believe I have the right to share in an idea without having to buy a license first.
If you continue robbing them of their ability to be compensated, you will destroy music as we now know it. You could just as easily achieve the same end by NOT SUPPORTING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY WE HAVE NOW. You are NOT entitled to their music, so you shouldn't be downloading it, copying it, or anything else. You should simply choose not to purchase or listen to it. They don't get support, they either have to evolve or, if enough people get fed up enough with them, they'll die.
You still don't get it. I am choosing not to support the record companies. I support the artists. I go to their concerts. I buy their tshirts. That's where their money comes from. I don't feel bad for making rich distibuting companies richer. I don't believe in the system and I am not going to support it, but it is a lie to say I am not supporting the artists.
That's what the music theives don't understand. In the unlikely event that the individual complaining really does believe their misguided ideology and isn't just a cheap, theiving bastard, they don't understand that by ilegally sharing music, they are stomping the artist's decision to disseminate their music as they see fit right into the ground.
This is ridiculous. You exaggerate the importance of the means of distribution. It's not like Artists are really looking for someone to get rich off them. It's just the norm to release records. The artists aren't in some moral battle to distribute their music. They just want people to listen to them and to make money. The only people losing out on p2p sharing is the RIAA and I don't feel bad at all, considering they don't actually make anything. They are mass copiers. They sell copies. That's it.
You're not a great, moral arbiter. It's the artist's choice, and if you really care about freedom, you have to respect that, even if the artist's decision was a stupid one. Otherwise, you're just a different group forcing a different sort of immoral authority.
Seriously, get over it. I still sense that you think morality is bound by law.
nobody wants people to go without food, healthcare, shelter, education... what we differ on is how best to accomplish those goals.
Really? Explain the tax cuts for the rich, the medicare bill, and the underfunded education bill then. I don't see any compassion in any of those things. I just see this administration helping the rich, screwing the elderly, screwing children, and destroying any environment that we may have left.
You would think so wouldn't you. This is a perfect description of a neocon though. Another good description of a neocon would be "radical" and yet that is another word not commonly associated with conservative, hence "neoconservative".
BS. Homosexuality hasn't been eliminated from the gene pool yet and it doesn't look like that is ever going to happen. In fact I believe homosexuals reproduce at about the same rate as heterosexuals. There are such things as surrogates.
No one is stopping stem cell research. Just no federal funds can be used for it.
If it's the fucking miracle you folks think it is, then there should be plenty of private research by those who seek to profit from it.
Of course there are not many private companies willing to fund development for something that could possibley cure so many different ailments. After all, the money is in the medicine, not the cure. Instead we have researchers at universities forced to recreate their labs off campus, wasting so much money and allowing the US to fall years behind the rest of the world when we were once pioneers in the field.
Ideas have value. Your ideas and what you do with them are your perogative
Yes, ideas do have value. The question is whether it is monetary in nature. I argue that it isn't and cannot be, obviously you disagree.
You cannot rewrite other people's decisions one what they do with their ideas just because you think you deserve to get whatever you want for nothing. The world doesn't work like that, it never has, and god help us all, hopefully it never will.
This is not about getting something for free. All of you people don't seem to get that. This is about a free exchange of ideas. The internet is a great leveler and it scares the shit out of those in power.
Holy shit. You are my god. I think I am going to print that list out and post it up EVERYWHERE. I am a pretty easy going person and I don't usually get screwed out of anything because I am polite. That's all it takes. If my meal is screwed up at a restaurant I tell the waitress but not complain or yell. Pretty much everytime I end up with a comped meal or dessert. Most of the time the worst thing that happens is that the problem is corrected but I have to wait a little longer. That's no sweat off my back. People seem to be so impatient these days. I handle retail stores the same way. The only store that is totally unacceptable for me to shop at is RadioShack. They truly suck. Anyway, I find that it's better to treat people with respect and go through the proper channels. You usually end up with what you want and you don't have to worry about people spitting in your food the next time you go there. Like the parent noted, never blame the peons who work at these places. They're not out to screw you, they just have to parrot those lines to keep their jobs. Most of the time if you ask a manager they'll be relieved to have someone else make a decision.
Are you suggesting that you cannot own anything you cannot physically control?
No. I am not suggesting anything. I am SAYING that I have not STOLEN art/music from anyone. I have enjoyed replica's of them and even paid entrance fees to enjoy the real thing, but I haven't taken anything away from anyone.
You seem to be confused because you seem to think that copyright infringement has somehow become theft. It may be in your own little world but even under US law it is not.
How are you going to construct a convincing moral argument for ripping it off? The "steal bread to feed my children" argument only works when you have no alternatives.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I am not depriving anyone of music.
The digitized reproductions, though almost perfect and indistinguishable from the original by all but the most educated in the field, are not art. They are content. As such, no special artistic protections should be afforded those reproductions. They should be treated as content to be distributed and sold. A cheap product to be whored by executives, nothing more.
Exactly. I am not stealing "art" from an artist. I am merely enjoying the art. That's not immoral.
Getting back to the topic at hand, however: concerts? I assume, then, that you're aware of the enormous ripoff that the majority of venues (most of them owned by the RIAA's evil brother, ClearChannel Communications) are?
The majority of money earned by bands is through concerts and tshirts. A lot of bands even lose money on record deals. Not all venues are owned/supported by ClearChannel. In fact a lot of big names come to a local club in town that is not a part of any radio station or other advertiser. Even when bands do play bigger venues they actually see a profit from them.
I'm not going to shed a tear for some dumb band that didn't bother to think the contract through or do some research and is getting screwed on the record deal now.
Well I'm not going to shed a tear for an obsolete industry that has survived by ripping artists and consumers off for years. I support bands by going to concerts. I have no desire to support a distribution company that doesn't care about art as much as they care about money.
Besides laws don't determine morality and they never will.
It's obvious that you still do not understand what made the towers fall. The WTC was built to withstand a plane crashing into it. It was not the plane that caused the towers to fall. Without the fuel raining DOWN on the building it would have never fell. That wouldn't have happened if the plane hit low.
I don't see why so many people have a problem with "pirated" (what a rediculous term to use) music. Record companies are just distibution channels. Artists don't make much money, if any at all, on CD sales. Artists make money from Concerts and TShirts. Downloading music just cuts out the middleman. Record companies no longer need to exist. We found a more efficient distribution channel.
There you are putting words in my mouth again. All I said is that personal attacks don't prove your point. Discussions get heated sometimes and people say stupid things but that doesn't change the facts.
Believe my claims? Did I ever prefix a sentence with "You should believe this" ? No. You're supposed to read them, and maybe reconsider your own opinions, think about it, and decide whether they are plausible or not. Only preachers expect people to "believe" what they say.
You are the one preaching. I only disagreed with the point that MS would destroy IBM in a patent battle. I see no evidence to back this up. IBM has more revenue, more people, and more patents. That doesn't mean they would definitely win but I don't see how it can show that they will lose, and I don't see any evidence provided by you that would alter my opinion, because you have shown no evidence at all. I simply decided that your opinion is not plausible given the facts.
As for whether it's IBM vs M$ (it won't be), or linux vs. M$... lots of people seem to be confused. Bunch of ijits "IBM will save us, they're our hero!".
I never made that claim so you must not be talking about me. I don't expect IBM to do a damn thing for me. I don't expect any company to. They are there to make money.
Something is stinky here though, and they won't be around forever, or they'll give up on the defense. Wait and see.
So no, I didn't cite any sources. I spend more time than I should on slashdot anyway, and spending 6 hours citing everything, doing it all proper... well, that isn't going to happen. If I did though, would it get me anything like your agreement? Probably not. You'd find fault with my methodology or something. So, wasting even more of my life here, just so you have one less way to attack me doesn't seem like much of a bargain.
Second, I apologize for suggesting that you read things yourself. Obviously, since you'd only be doing so with all your witless pre-concieved notions, it could only prove what you've decided to be true anyway, so there is no reason for you to waste your time either.
Your post is typical of someone who has no evidence to support their claims. Personal attacks cannot replace actual evidence though. You can call me "witless" but that doesn't prove your point for you. It just makes you look foolish.
All that I've said, rightly or wrongly, is only a warning that it may not be a given that Linux will win quickly, easily, or even at all.
When the hell were we talking about Linux? I was talking about IBM and Microsoft. Maybe that's where your confusion came into play.
Basically in the end I am to believe that your claims are correct and that I am an idiot, because you said so, without any proof. Forgive me for disagreeing.
Read up though, rather than assuming all big companies have more or less equal "connections" and political "clout". Because that's what you've done, isn't it?
Obviously you have done your homework since you cited so many sources, or maybe you just read two articles about the US anti-trust case and the recent bundling case in Europe.
Battle hardened lawyers :
Microsoft jas at least 3 times as many as IBM
I call bullshit. You pulled that one out of your ass. IBM has always had a lot of lawyers. They have many more employees than Microsoft, and their lawyers are pretty battle hardened. They took SCO to school and back again.
Microsoft makes more profits than IBM, even with only a third of IBM's sales.
That's what happens when you sell something that costs nothing to make. It helps when you own the market and can charge whatever you want. Perhaps MS should be putting some more of that money into useful things like security.
Slashdot Mirror
Finally you see my point.
I operate on my own moral beleifs. I'm sorry if they don't intersect with yours or the law. I'll do it even if I get in trouble because of it. I know I support artists. That's all I need to know. I know I don't support the RIAA. That's all they need to know. I'll be damned if I am going to be stopped from enjoying an artists work because I haven't paid for a license to enjoy it. I will, on the other hand, support an artists hard work by going to concerts. Being called a thieving bastard because I download music off the internet is a cheap shot. I am probably one of the most honest and generous people you could get to know. I just don't lay down for corporations because they want me to. Sue me.
You obviously didn't stop to think about it. A cure is a one time thing. Treatments can last a lifetime. Where's the money now? Pharmaceutical companies are MARKETING medicine like it's cola. Tell me with a straight face that there isn't something wrong with that.
Total crap. Next please.
Perhaps NCLB is underfunded... but Bush increased educational spending more than anyone else in FOUR DECADES.
No, he was supposed to spend more, he just didn't ante up after allocating the money.
The medicare bill was obviously supposed to HELP older Americans pay for prescription drugs, and the truth is few republicans actually supported it.
And it helped few seniors and instead made most of them pay more.
I do not believe any of your assertions are true at all, they are all issues seen through liberal colored glasses with no grounding in reality.
I do not believe any of your assertions are true at all, they are all issues seen through conservative colored glasses with no grounding in reality.
THE ARTISTS DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM CD SALES! Besides that I am not forcing artists to do a damn thing. I believe I have the right to share in an idea without having to buy a license first.
If you continue robbing them of their ability to be compensated, you will destroy music as we now know it. You could just as easily achieve the same end by NOT SUPPORTING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY WE HAVE NOW. You are NOT entitled to their music, so you shouldn't be downloading it, copying it, or anything else. You should simply choose not to purchase or listen to it. They don't get support, they either have to evolve or, if enough people get fed up enough with them, they'll die.
You still don't get it. I am choosing not to support the record companies. I support the artists. I go to their concerts. I buy their tshirts. That's where their money comes from. I don't feel bad for making rich distibuting companies richer. I don't believe in the system and I am not going to support it, but it is a lie to say I am not supporting the artists.
That's what the music theives don't understand. In the unlikely event that the individual complaining really does believe their misguided ideology and isn't just a cheap, theiving bastard, they don't understand that by ilegally sharing music, they are stomping the artist's decision to disseminate their music as they see fit right into the ground.
This is ridiculous. You exaggerate the importance of the means of distribution. It's not like Artists are really looking for someone to get rich off them. It's just the norm to release records. The artists aren't in some moral battle to distribute their music. They just want people to listen to them and to make money. The only people losing out on p2p sharing is the RIAA and I don't feel bad at all, considering they don't actually make anything. They are mass copiers. They sell copies. That's it.
You're not a great, moral arbiter. It's the artist's choice, and if you really care about freedom, you have to respect that, even if the artist's decision was a stupid one. Otherwise, you're just a different group forcing a different sort of immoral authority.
Seriously, get over it. I still sense that you think morality is bound by law.
Really? Explain the tax cuts for the rich, the medicare bill, and the underfunded education bill then. I don't see any compassion in any of those things. I just see this administration helping the rich, screwing the elderly, screwing children, and destroying any environment that we may have left.
You would think so wouldn't you. This is a perfect description of a neocon though. Another good description of a neocon would be "radical" and yet that is another word not commonly associated with conservative, hence "neoconservative".
Not insulting anyone: but most conservatives I know are sorta evil, but definitly uncompassionate. They seem to hate everyone but themselves...
That's the worst logic I've seen EVER.
BS. Homosexuality hasn't been eliminated from the gene pool yet and it doesn't look like that is ever going to happen. In fact I believe homosexuals reproduce at about the same rate as heterosexuals. There are such things as surrogates.
If it's the fucking miracle you folks think it is, then there should be plenty of private research by those who seek to profit from it.
Of course there are not many private companies willing to fund development for something that could possibley cure so many different ailments. After all, the money is in the medicine, not the cure. Instead we have researchers at universities forced to recreate their labs off campus, wasting so much money and allowing the US to fall years behind the rest of the world when we were once pioneers in the field.
Yes, ideas do have value. The question is whether it is monetary in nature. I argue that it isn't and cannot be, obviously you disagree.
You cannot rewrite other people's decisions one what they do with their ideas just because you think you deserve to get whatever you want for nothing. The world doesn't work like that, it never has, and god help us all, hopefully it never will.
This is not about getting something for free. All of you people don't seem to get that. This is about a free exchange of ideas. The internet is a great leveler and it scares the shit out of those in power.
Actually the sales tax in Connectiut is 6%
Holy shit. You are my god. I think I am going to print that list out and post it up EVERYWHERE. I am a pretty easy going person and I don't usually get screwed out of anything because I am polite. That's all it takes. If my meal is screwed up at a restaurant I tell the waitress but not complain or yell. Pretty much everytime I end up with a comped meal or dessert. Most of the time the worst thing that happens is that the problem is corrected but I have to wait a little longer. That's no sweat off my back. People seem to be so impatient these days. I handle retail stores the same way. The only store that is totally unacceptable for me to shop at is RadioShack. They truly suck. Anyway, I find that it's better to treat people with respect and go through the proper channels. You usually end up with what you want and you don't have to worry about people spitting in your food the next time you go there. Like the parent noted, never blame the peons who work at these places. They're not out to screw you, they just have to parrot those lines to keep their jobs. Most of the time if you ask a manager they'll be relieved to have someone else make a decision.
No. I am not suggesting anything. I am SAYING that I have not STOLEN art/music from anyone. I have enjoyed replica's of them and even paid entrance fees to enjoy the real thing, but I haven't taken anything away from anyone.
You seem to be confused because you seem to think that copyright infringement has somehow become theft. It may be in your own little world but even under US law it is not.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I am not depriving anyone of music.
The digitized reproductions, though almost perfect and indistinguishable from the original by all but the most educated in the field, are not art. They are content. As such, no special artistic protections should be afforded those reproductions. They should be treated as content to be distributed and sold. A cheap product to be whored by executives, nothing more.
Exactly. I am not stealing "art" from an artist. I am merely enjoying the art. That's not immoral.
Getting back to the topic at hand, however: concerts? I assume, then, that you're aware of the enormous ripoff that the majority of venues (most of them owned by the RIAA's evil brother, ClearChannel Communications) are?
The majority of money earned by bands is through concerts and tshirts. A lot of bands even lose money on record deals. Not all venues are owned/supported by ClearChannel. In fact a lot of big names come to a local club in town that is not a part of any radio station or other advertiser. Even when bands do play bigger venues they actually see a profit from them.
Well I'm not going to shed a tear for an obsolete industry that has survived by ripping artists and consumers off for years. I support bands by going to concerts. I have no desire to support a distribution company that doesn't care about art as much as they care about money.
Besides laws don't determine morality and they never will.
It's obvious that you still do not understand what made the towers fall. The WTC was built to withstand a plane crashing into it. It was not the plane that caused the towers to fall. Without the fuel raining DOWN on the building it would have never fell. That wouldn't have happened if the plane hit low.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't see why so many people have a problem with "pirated" (what a rediculous term to use) music. Record companies are just distibution channels. Artists don't make much money, if any at all, on CD sales. Artists make money from Concerts and TShirts. Downloading music just cuts out the middleman. Record companies no longer need to exist. We found a more efficient distribution channel.
There you are putting words in my mouth again. All I said is that personal attacks don't prove your point. Discussions get heated sometimes and people say stupid things but that doesn't change the facts.
Believe my claims? Did I ever prefix a sentence with "You should believe this" ? No. You're supposed to read them, and maybe reconsider your own opinions, think about it, and decide whether they are plausible or not. Only preachers expect people to "believe" what they say.
You are the one preaching. I only disagreed with the point that MS would destroy IBM in a patent battle. I see no evidence to back this up. IBM has more revenue, more people, and more patents. That doesn't mean they would definitely win but I don't see how it can show that they will lose, and I don't see any evidence provided by you that would alter my opinion, because you have shown no evidence at all. I simply decided that your opinion is not plausible given the facts.
As for whether it's IBM vs M$ (it won't be), or linux vs. M$... lots of people seem to be confused. Bunch of ijits "IBM will save us, they're our hero!".
I never made that claim so you must not be talking about me. I don't expect IBM to do a damn thing for me. I don't expect any company to. They are there to make money.
Something is stinky here though, and they won't be around forever, or they'll give up on the defense. Wait and see.
Sure Miss Cleo, whatever you say.
That's obvious enough.
So no, I didn't cite any sources. I spend more time than I should on slashdot anyway, and spending 6 hours citing everything, doing it all proper... well, that isn't going to happen. If I did though, would it get me anything like your agreement? Probably not. You'd find fault with my methodology or something. So, wasting even more of my life here, just so you have one less way to attack me doesn't seem like much of a bargain.
Second, I apologize for suggesting that you read things yourself. Obviously, since you'd only be doing so with all your witless pre-concieved notions, it could only prove what you've decided to be true anyway, so there is no reason for you to waste your time either.
Your post is typical of someone who has no evidence to support their claims. Personal attacks cannot replace actual evidence though. You can call me "witless" but that doesn't prove your point for you. It just makes you look foolish.
All that I've said, rightly or wrongly, is only a warning that it may not be a given that Linux will win quickly, easily, or even at all.
When the hell were we talking about Linux? I was talking about IBM and Microsoft. Maybe that's where your confusion came into play.
Basically in the end I am to believe that your claims are correct and that I am an idiot, because you said so, without any proof. Forgive me for disagreeing.
I think the grandparent was refering to encryption when he said "security".
Obviously you have done your homework since you cited so many sources, or maybe you just read two articles about the US anti-trust case and the recent bundling case in Europe.
I call bullshit. You pulled that one out of your ass. IBM has always had a lot of lawyers. They have many more employees than Microsoft, and their lawyers are pretty battle hardened. They took SCO to school and back again.
Microsoft makes more profits than IBM, even with only a third of IBM's sales.
That's what happens when you sell something that costs nothing to make. It helps when you own the market and can charge whatever you want. Perhaps MS should be putting some more of that money into useful things like security.
Are you serious? I'm talking about a real replacement, not some half-working crap. Does anyone actually use those mailers?