Re:Afghanistan Exit Realized
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 1
I'm not sure if you're replying to me or not, but I hope you didn't take my "it is the best going" as "all other countries are repressive and backward." Surely you didn't mean to imply that any (even the dumbest) American would be mistaken in believing that only they enjoy advanced technological goods.
No, I think there are many countries on par with the US as far as a "standard of living", however, many of those have a few legal sticking points that I'm not willing to pack up my US operations for. For example, in many advanced democracies such as France, Canada, and the UK there is not quite full freedom of the press or of speech. In those countries the governments can prosecute people who, say, deny the Holocaust while holding educational positions or the like. (Please don't miss my point here and reply with something along the lines of "so you would defend Holocaust deniers!") In France, a country I've never visited but whose language and culture I am personally enamored of, you cannot own and communicate with personal cryptography software such as is freely available here. Despite my country's ethically wrong stance on Iraq, and its immoral imprisonment of drug-users and the perpetuation of the Drug War, I just cannot give up the right to free speech, which is worth way more than material comfort.
BTW, I have been to Finland, when I was a lad living in the US embassy in Moscow. I loved visiting your country, and look forward to doing so again. I take your point about the passport in serious consideration.
Again, an ad hominem attack that doesn't address the words spoken. I was crediting Maher for his words, not everything he stands for or has ever said. Instead of criticizing the statement, you allow your judgement of the person speaking them to motivate your rebuttal. I'm sorry you were overwhelmed by two quotes that exceeded your personal sound-bite threshhold.
It was my opinion that it was witty, but I think Maher makes a good point that we're being sold a bill of goods, and America is just taking it. There is no credible threat to the United States from Iraq, and Bush has convinced us that there is.
In defense of Maher, you may not like what he says, and a lot of what he says I don't disagree with either (and I promise there is a lot) or that he has to be funny for entertainment's sake, but he has brought political debate on a regular basis into more homes more than any personality I can think of. Now that he is free of ABC he has moved on to print where he doesn't have to rely on a sound bite, and he now has an HBO show where he doesn't have to slip in a punch line before the commercial. On his ABC show he got rid of his monologue so that there would be more time for discussion. If you've ever seen Carrot-top on his show you'll see a stark contrast between a silly comedian and a comedian who can make many cogent points about politics and culture.
Re:Afghanistan Exit Realized
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 1
filmcritic, Please notice the lack of profanity in my post.
Anti-American? I'm not against America, rather I'm for it. The America conceived by Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Henry, and their ilk, a country envisioned to embody enlightenment and reason. This country was an idea in their minds before it happened, a sort of pre-electronic cyberspace. As far as a majority opinion and what it's worth, consider that a majority of people and even intellectuals were for the Vietnam intervention.
You are a pure troll and I can support that FACT with a history of your posts. You appeal to fact-based argument yet your post is full of ad-hominem attacks and a dozen other glaring fallacies. Criticize America? Criticize defense spending? Tell that to a soldier who gave their life, etc... That is such an easy argument, I'm sure you had some sort of autocomplete feature to type your words in for you.
You seemed to have formed quite a personality for yourself here in cyberspace. And it's such a funny one, too: "Psst, the Matrix was a fictional film." Man, what wit. But this doesn't exist. At all. These words never happened. My words had no real effect on you, to make you type in such a voice.
foniksonik, thanks for your words. I know what you're saying, and I have known it. I just need reminding. It's a chicken-and-egg argument I've had before(online usually): are we free because we envision now and our ancestors envisioned it then, or are we free only because our forebears fought the wars to get here.
uraj
Re:am I the only one who sees this?
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 1
I will accept that Saddam may be complicit in certain terrorist activities around the globe. But why wasn't this particular link exploited and investigated by the Bush Administration when making its case recently? Here's why. This a somewhat conservative source, and yours was full of speculation fresh after 9-11. Your 2nd source was 404.
The high road is long and hard. Bush and Co know they got a hard sell coming in 2004, so they know they can't wait for diplomacy.
uraj
Re:am I the only one who sees this?
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 1
is it just a coincidence...
Maybe. Perhaps if you could supply some compelling support for your theory other people will see it too.
uraj
Re:FRANCE SUCKS. RUSSIA SUCKS. CHINA SUCKS.
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
Proof, please?
uraj
Afghanistan Exit Realized
on
Strike on Iraq
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I'd like to quote Bill Maher to get my point going:
"As of this writing, the most depressing thing about war in Iraq was
how easy it was to sell. Shouldn't it be a little harder than this to
sell people a war?... [and]how amazed I was that, of all the lies told by presidents in my lifetime, the one so many people couldn't get over, and which the media treats as the standard for mendacity, was: 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.'
"Huge, astounding lies that affected each and every one of us in very
real ways: that we were winning the war in Vietnam; that we weren't
trading arms for hostages, and if we were it was a soldier's duty to lie about it; that global warming and marijuana needed more study before we could consider policy changes about them; that there'd be no new taxes; that Clarence Thomas was the most qualified person a nation of 250 million could find to sit on the Supreme Court...
"All these lies, all these giant, steaming-turd whoppers, and the one that broke the bank was 'Blow jobs aren't sex.' Wow, that's a stupid country."
Yes it is.
From Ted Rall: "Decades of budget cuts in education are finally yielding results, a fact confirmed by CNN's poll of March 16, which shows that an astonishing 51 percent of the public believe that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was responsible for the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."
Monday night George W. Bush, our legally if not ethically elected leader stepped up in front of the world and told us that Iraq had "ties" to Al Qaeda (and thus WTC responsibility) and that he was a danger to the world, though nothing has ever been produced to prove this (But it's okay, there are some things the government doesn't need to explain fully, they need their secrets right?). Saddam was a danger to Kurds, Israelis, Iranians and Kuwiatis because our government helped gain him that power (the only thing about the Iraq-Contra affair that this country remembers is that a brave man in uniform with an honest face was grilled in front of a big mean Congressional panel).
Afghanistan? An exit strategy was thought up as soon as we went in, and Iraq was it. This is public record. (see current Mother Jones issue). Also see the archived streaming video debate[scroll down] on the Christopher Hitchens Web against Mark Danner.
Everyone involved in Bush's world going back decades has been involved in Oil. Everyone in his government holding any kind of power is involved in Oil. We now have bases spread from Kuwait to deep ex-Soviet Territory in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan.
Bush and his Puppeteers lied to us.
It's like we see but we don't see.
Putting up a bumper sticker or flag is our way of getting involved. Cafeteria Managers are renaming French fries. Major newspapers editorialize that the French are pissing on the graves of D-day soldiers. Most Americans don't approve a pre-emptive war, but since Bush's Monday speech his ratings are rocketing. Look, He's doing something. We're like predators only interesting in moving things, in action, overshadowing the consequences.
This is a stupid country.
In response to the pithy "then why don't you just leave" argument, I say:
Because it is the best going, and there's the logistics involved in repatriating. Also, I live on many different levels, in a community, a town, a state, a geography and ecosystem, in cyberspace. The notion of belonging to a nation is but one of many, but hardly my overarching modifier. Is America the best on its way down? Does being the freest nation on earth require colonial domination over the rest of the planet? If another country without the addiction to war and oil can offer the freedom
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not sure if you're replying to me or not, but I hope you didn't take my "it is the best going" as "all other countries are repressive and backward." Surely you didn't mean to imply that any (even the dumbest) American would be mistaken in believing that only they enjoy advanced technological goods.
No, I think there are many countries on par with the US as far as a "standard of living", however, many of those have a few legal sticking points that I'm not willing to pack up my US operations for. For example, in many advanced democracies such as France, Canada, and the UK there is not quite full freedom of the press or of speech. In those countries the governments can prosecute people who, say, deny the Holocaust while holding educational positions or the like. (Please don't miss my point here and reply with something along the lines of "so you would defend Holocaust deniers!") In France, a country I've never visited but whose language and culture I am personally enamored of, you cannot own and communicate with personal cryptography software such as is freely available here. Despite my country's ethically wrong stance on Iraq, and its immoral imprisonment of drug-users and the perpetuation of the Drug War, I just cannot give up the right to free speech, which is worth way more than material comfort.BTW, I have been to Finland, when I was a lad living in the US embassy in Moscow. I loved visiting your country, and look forward to doing so again. I take your point about the passport in serious consideration.
urajAgain, an ad hominem attack that doesn't address the words spoken. I was crediting Maher for his words, not everything he stands for or has ever said. Instead of criticizing the statement, you allow your judgement of the person speaking them to motivate your rebuttal. I'm sorry you were overwhelmed by two quotes that exceeded your personal sound-bite threshhold.
It was my opinion that it was witty, but I think Maher makes a good point that we're being sold a bill of goods, and America is just taking it. There is no credible threat to the United States from Iraq, and Bush has convinced us that there is.
In defense of Maher, you may not like what he says, and a lot of what he says I don't disagree with either (and I promise there is a lot) or that he has to be funny for entertainment's sake, but he has brought political debate on a regular basis into more homes more than any personality I can think of. Now that he is free of ABC he has moved on to print where he doesn't have to rely on a sound bite, and he now has an HBO show where he doesn't have to slip in a punch line before the commercial. On his ABC show he got rid of his monologue so that there would be more time for discussion. If you've ever seen Carrot-top on his show you'll see a stark contrast between a silly comedian and a comedian who can make many cogent points about politics and culture.
filmcritic, Please notice the lack of profanity in my post.
Anti-American? I'm not against America, rather I'm for it. The America conceived by Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Henry, and their ilk, a country envisioned to embody enlightenment and reason. This country was an idea in their minds before it happened, a sort of pre-electronic cyberspace. As far as a majority opinion and what it's worth, consider that a majority of people and even intellectuals were for the Vietnam intervention.
You are a pure troll and I can support that FACT with a history of your posts. You appeal to fact-based argument yet your post is full of ad-hominem attacks and a dozen other glaring fallacies. Criticize America? Criticize defense spending? Tell that to a soldier who gave their life, etc... That is such an easy argument, I'm sure you had some sort of autocomplete feature to type your words in for you.
You seemed to have formed quite a personality for yourself here in cyberspace. And it's such a funny one, too: "Psst, the Matrix was a fictional film." Man, what wit. But this doesn't exist. At all. These words never happened. My words had no real effect on you, to make you type in such a voice.
foniksonik, thanks for your words. I know what you're saying, and I have known it. I just need reminding. It's a chicken-and-egg argument I've had before(online usually): are we free because we envision now and our ancestors envisioned it then, or are we free only because our forebears fought the wars to get here. uraj
I will accept that Saddam may be complicit in certain terrorist activities around the globe. But why wasn't this particular link exploited and investigated by the Bush Administration when making its case recently? Here's why. This a somewhat conservative source, and yours was full of speculation fresh after 9-11. Your 2nd source was 404.
The high road is long and hard. Bush and Co know they got a hard sell coming in 2004, so they know they can't wait for diplomacy.
urajis it just a coincidence...
Maybe. Perhaps if you could supply some compelling support for your theory other people will see it too. uraj
Proof, please? uraj
I'd like to quote Bill Maher to get my point going:
"As of this writing, the most depressing thing about war in Iraq was how easy it was to sell. Shouldn't it be a little harder than this to sell people a war? ... [and]how amazed I was that, of all the lies told by presidents in my lifetime, the one so many people couldn't get over, and which the media treats as the standard for mendacity, was: 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman.'
"Huge, astounding lies that affected each and every one of us in very real ways: that we were winning the war in Vietnam; that we weren't trading arms for hostages, and if we were it was a soldier's duty to lie about it; that global warming and marijuana needed more study before we could consider policy changes about them; that there'd be no new taxes; that Clarence Thomas was the most qualified person a nation of 250 million could find to sit on the Supreme Court...
"All these lies, all these giant, steaming-turd whoppers, and the one that broke the bank was 'Blow jobs aren't sex.' Wow, that's a stupid country."
Yes it is.
From Ted Rall: "Decades of budget cuts in education are finally yielding results, a fact confirmed by CNN's poll of March 16, which shows that an astonishing 51 percent of the public believe that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was responsible for the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."
Monday night George W. Bush, our legally if not ethically elected leader stepped up in front of the world and told us that Iraq had "ties" to Al Qaeda (and thus WTC responsibility) and that he was a danger to the world, though nothing has ever been produced to prove this (But it's okay, there are some things the government doesn't need to explain fully, they need their secrets right?). Saddam was a danger to Kurds, Israelis, Iranians and Kuwiatis because our government helped gain him that power (the only thing about the Iraq-Contra affair that this country remembers is that a brave man in uniform with an honest face was grilled in front of a big mean Congressional panel).
Afghanistan? An exit strategy was thought up as soon as we went in, and Iraq was it. This is public record. (see current Mother Jones issue). Also see the archived streaming video debate[scroll down] on the Christopher Hitchens Web against Mark Danner.
Everyone involved in Bush's world going back decades has been involved in Oil. Everyone in his government holding any kind of power is involved in Oil. We now have bases spread from Kuwait to deep ex-Soviet Territory in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan.
Bush and his Puppeteers lied to us.
It's like we see but we don't see.
Putting up a bumper sticker or flag is our way of getting involved. Cafeteria Managers are renaming French fries. Major newspapers editorialize that the French are pissing on the graves of D-day soldiers. Most Americans don't approve a pre-emptive war, but since Bush's Monday speech his ratings are rocketing. Look, He's doing something. We're like predators only interesting in moving things, in action, overshadowing the consequences.
This is a stupid country.
In response to the pithy "then why don't you just leave" argument, I say:
Because it is the best going, and there's the logistics involved in repatriating. Also, I live on many different levels, in a community, a town, a state, a geography and ecosystem, in cyberspace. The notion of belonging to a nation is but one of many, but hardly my overarching modifier. Is America the best on its way down? Does being the freest nation on earth require colonial domination over the rest of the planet? If another country without the addiction to war and oil can offer the freedom