No. You can tell people to use WebM and install the codec to view the content to.
Firefox, Chrome and Opera could even ask if you want to download it if it wasn't already installed upon the first run or whatever. Though I assume that should really have been the media players task.
Then I guess it will surprise you to know that Wine implements D3D on top of native OpenGL. If Firefox worked better on Wine, it would only mean that the Firefox developers can't write decent OpenGL code, but Wine developers can.
1) If they aren't interested by themselves (or learn by themselves) why the fuck are they studying CS to begin with?
2) Shouldn't you have a plan with _WHY_ you want to include Linux in the class? What's the purpose of the course? Just because it sounds good with putting Linux on a piece of paper? Then maybe you shouldn't have created the course.
Personally I guess I would had started with users vs super-user/root, groups and file permissions, process ids, pipes, jobs, man, basic vi, shell-scripts, regexp/sed, crontab,...
Then there should be no difference in performance between closed source and open source drivers. But, there is a difference, so you are wrong. QED.
Car analogy time: You do understand that's as fucking retarded as saying the reason a Ferrari is a nicer car than a Volvo 240 it's got a horse on the badge?
I can see Linux driver support (for AMD at least) becoming a strength two or three years from now.
I obviously will change my mind as soon as there is a reason to. If AMD cards performed better than Nvidia cards and at lower power consumption at the same price when they would be somewhat considered. But as long as I can pick more OSes with decent results Nvidia would win if the difference isn't huge to AMDs advantage.
If AMD can get as good open-source drivers and running on multiple OSes then they will fight on equal levels or even to AMDs advantage.
I don't know too much about the latest developments. I know things up to the 8600 GT -> HD4870 -> GTX 460 kinda..:D
Haven't got a new desktop and my laptop is a macbook pro with 8600m GT but it was only really usable for 1-1.5 year because Apple suck and I couldn't be bothered with their shitty service. Freaking stupid to buy that POS but I did it because I had already paid for an Apple student developer membership to get 20% off:/
I haven't said it had anything to do with license.
They are different points.
Only way they are part of the license issue is that if the drivers where open-source and within the kernel tree / X.org / whatever then the instability of the ABI wouldn't matter that much since people would modify them accordingly to keep it working all the time.
Now when they aren't linked together the whole time any changes ruin things.
And yeah, the audio situation suck. And then people can yell all they want about latency and how useful this and that may be for professionals and compared to Windows and so on.
It would had been nice with ONE solution which just worked.
Personally I've used OSS whenever possible because it has had support for the hardware I had and have just worked. So that has been my preferred choice and I haven't cared for the advantages and differences with others.
Anyway, why bother if it's not worth it (through sales of cards, money from the OS provider, driver sales or donations) and hard to do?
As far as BeOS vs Linux vs OS X I assume the number of installations and potential sales matters to. OS X may have even better drivers because there may be less stupid requirements, more stability and money involed. But at least with Linux you'd be able to sell to more people than with BeOS, Syllable, AROS, SkyOS. Sure no-one bothers with them (unless the drivers and card specs where open because then the developers of those OSes would probably try to modify and make them work in their OSes.)
There are NVidia open source drivers and they work about as well as the ATI/AMD open source drivers. It is the closed source NVidia drivers developed by NVidia that work better than either of the open source drivers.
So are the open-source Nvidia drivers developed by Nvidia? If not you fail.
Stupid.
The fact whatever the code is open-source or not got nothing to do with the quality of the driver.
Reminds me of a friends Radeon 9200 and/or 9600. Which is kinda funny since they are the only cards/generation which people can truly claim where superior to Nividas offerings and that was only thanks to the FX-line and the 3Dfx purchase/Xbox GPU development I assume. Anyhow, so you play some Warcraft III only, and get a Windows dialog with the message:
"ATI bla bla reset GPU/card bla bla"... and your game quit.
Awesome! Thanks! But I guess there was a reason / issue which lead to the reset. But yeah. Can't say I trust AMD/ATI as much as Nivida, dunno what I would do if the AMD/ATI card actually benchmarked better, but that's not very likely to happen anyway.
Put it all together: Decent drivers + binary drivers for lots of OSes + performance + energy consumption + CUDA + eventually PhysX (don't know how much it matter) and it's hard to make the scale tilt to AMDs advantage.
And yeah, everyone seem to say Nvidia work better.
But then the Nivida drivers is closed and I read how they ignored stuff already made in other places to do their own solution instead. Probably/eventually because the underlying systems changed all the freaking time anyway. Or something such.
And yeah, I assume things hook into X.org to. But it's my area of expertise, I would had much preferred if someone knowledgeable would had said the same stuff instead:D
Since I've ran all of Linux, FreeBSD and Solaris all I can say is just that even with the Nivida drivers on FreeBSD and Solaris they more or less simply work, more so on Solaris I think. I don't remember but I think you had to redo something to get them running on FreeBSD after an upgrade. On Linux however didn't they used to become broken/disabled as soon as you upgraded something and then you had to install them again?
So even if there are implementations for all of the platforms and they may be similar obviously they work better on some than others.
Personally I like the stability of Solaris.
Reminds me of the day I was stupid enough to test Archlinux after all the fanboys yelling about how amazing it was. Was back in 0.7 but then a simply update broke both all USB devices (switched USB stack / device AFAIK) and the Alsamixer so my SIP-telephony didn't worked.
Such things may have been "fun" back in the days, if you tried to get things to work. But it's mostly just fun the first time it happens, and if you get them solved. It's not very fun at all when you do have things working and then someone else break it and you have to figure out why.
Some people may enjoy it, I don't.
If I remember things right I may have had a bunch of issues getting CounterPath X-lite software to run (the only good SIP-client which was available) in various OSes and distributions to. And in that case it didn't only had to "make sound work" but also make the mic work, let me adjust the level of the mic, have short delays, don't make longer delays, decent sound quality, don't crash, so on so on...
On Solaris it was pretty disturbing that everything, including Gnome, is installed with only SUNaudio support and not for instance Open Sound System which I needed to make things actually work, and which is also excellent.
How can you lay this at the feet of the graphics card manufacturers? The closed source binary drivers (NVidia) work just fine. The open source ATI stuff is mostly junk. It's a bit unfair to say OpenGL is bad just because the open source guys can't implement it correctly in the Linux drivers.
Logic fail: Does not compute.
Both Nvidia and AMD is graphic card manufacturers (or well, GPU.)
One work, the other doesn't.
Sure one is open-source and one isn't but I doubt that's the reason one work better than the other?
Would Nvidias work worse if it was open-source? If AMD closed their source would it magically start to work better?
If we talk about non-hardware manufacturers who have to reverse engineer / guess how the drivers should be written then yes, they would probably deliver a worse product.
I read some post earlier about changes within Linux and how much Nvidia had reimplemented / ignore the stuff within the kernel to make things work.
I don't know enough about the matter to write a decent reply and explanation. That guy(?) did.
I guess patents / not wanting to reveal stuff / DRM may not be as much as an issue with the kernel as it would had been with GPL 3? But it's probably more convenient when done as Nivida does things, and maybe they are freer when it comes to how to implement things because they don't have to "make it look good" and as close to what the kernel developers have in mind but rather just make it work and ignore the crap-fest which is Linux ABI stability.
Until graphics card manufacturers take Linux seriously
They probably would if it wasn't thanks to GPL.
I don't know what the issues would be with submitting the code as open-source and into the kernel but whatever. I assume GPL is a big reason regardless of whatever it's code into the kernel, binary blobs, changes within the API, whatever.
I tend to only post with [x] No Karma Bonus, mostly by mistake since I added it at some time, but I started doing so because of all the stupid moderation and less "fall" down to -1. But yeah, that leaves me at 1 to start with and maybe less chance of getting noticed / get high moderation as well.
The high point posts are the ones which comes early, starts a thread of comments even though they may not have much to do at all with the first post in the thread and become higher moderated early. Because no-one bothers to read the eventually just as insightful comments further down.
Hence and that's why you have/need to throw in your post in some of the early threads instead of post a completely new one because no-one will give a shit.
Also I guess there's too many chefs, eventually you'll get many posts saying the same thing and the reason there's no-one reading down below and so many shitty posts is that there's so many reading and commenting on Slashdot. Obviously.
Was better back in the days when it actually _WAS_ news for nerds to, and you got insightful comments on hardware, OS, programming languages and so on.
Now it's closer to those "omg-I-think-this-videoclip-is-funny-so-I-add-it-to-your-portal-of-funny-video-clips"-sites but with articles instead.
Let's keep it nerdy please:/
OSnews was and could had been a solution but with Thom as main poster I don't know.. Kinda shitty.
Eugenia may have been herself but at-least she posted some cool stuff. Now it's mostly Thoms why-I-hate-H.264-and-why-everyone-should-agree-with-me-on-everything blog.
Not to troll but you're fucking retarded as shit and I hope you get raped to death.
Personally I would like to be able to say things like that without chicking out as AC and hence have the freedom to do so without having moderators moderate me as troll:D
Now when they do it doesn't matter much since you can just post the same crap as AC anyway.
Now they're going to seek injunction against Google. (Yes, I DO think they're THAT RETARDED.)
Makes me wonder why Sony haven't made their own web-browser yet. With their own protocols, their own search engine, their own content,..., and preferably their own regulation so they could easily had fixed what happened.
Slashdot Mirror
So that's why I don't ;D
No. You can tell people to use WebM and install the codec to view the content to.
Firefox, Chrome and Opera could even ask if you want to download it if it wasn't already installed upon the first run or whatever. Though I assume that should really have been the media players task.
They should be happy, and so should he!
Now only the value of said game titles where lost.
But if instead he had pirated the games just imagine all the damage along the lines with all the additional copies he helped to create would had been!
Steal Starcraft II at $ 29.95 for a total of $ 29.95 damage.
Pirate Starcraft II for free, create $ 29,950 damage!
This way if he get caught he should only have to pay for the titles he stole. If he had pirated them? Millions! .. ;D
Yeah... think of all the money we could save on schools if people would just learn by themselves.
Ok, maybe it doesn't give enough skilled people. But atleast you'd know the people who knew anything about something would be capable.
Then I guess it will surprise you to know that Wine implements D3D on top of native OpenGL. If Firefox worked better on Wine, it would only mean that the Firefox developers can't write decent OpenGL code, but Wine developers can.
(Had I posted this?)
This post seem to shit all over yours as far as "OMG WINE MAKES IT WORK WHY CAN'T FIREFOX?!"-goes:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1952556&cid=34896352
1) If they aren't interested by themselves (or learn by themselves) why the fuck are they studying CS to begin with?
2) Shouldn't you have a plan with _WHY_ you want to include Linux in the class? What's the purpose of the course? Just because it sounds good with putting Linux on a piece of paper? Then maybe you shouldn't have created the course.
Personally I guess I would had started with users vs super-user/root, groups and file permissions, process ids, pipes, jobs, man, basic vi, shell-scripts, regexp/sed, crontab, ...
Then there should be no difference in performance between closed source and open source drivers. But, there is a difference, so you are wrong. QED.
"Oh I know how to fix the ATI drivers! Just change license and close the source! Instant super-drivers!"
You got your Slashdot login with the AOL CD in your breakfast cereals and decided it was a good idea to replace your brain with said cereals?
Fucking amazing how you could even sign up.
Computers must have become really easy to use, the question is whatever it may be too easy? ...
Damn. Never get a job in the area.
Then there should be no difference in performance between closed source and open source drivers. But, there is a difference, so you are wrong. QED.
Car analogy time: You do understand that's as fucking retarded as saying the reason a Ferrari is a nicer car than a Volvo 240 it's got a horse on the badge?
Whatever fucking retard.
I can see Linux driver support (for AMD at least) becoming a strength two or three years from now.
I obviously will change my mind as soon as there is a reason to. If AMD cards performed better than Nvidia cards and at lower power consumption at the same price when they would be somewhat considered. But as long as I can pick more OSes with decent results Nvidia would win if the difference isn't huge to AMDs advantage.
If AMD can get as good open-source drivers and running on multiple OSes then they will fight on equal levels or even to AMDs advantage.
I don't know too much about the latest developments. I know things up to the 8600 GT -> HD4870 -> GTX 460 kinda .. :D
Haven't got a new desktop and my laptop is a macbook pro with 8600m GT but it was only really usable for 1-1.5 year because Apple suck and I couldn't be bothered with their shitty service. Freaking stupid to buy that POS but I did it because I had already paid for an Apple student developer membership to get 20% off :/
I haven't said it had anything to do with license.
They are different points.
Only way they are part of the license issue is that if the drivers where open-source and within the kernel tree / X.org / whatever then the instability of the ABI wouldn't matter that much since people would modify them accordingly to keep it working all the time.
Now when they aren't linked together the whole time any changes ruin things.
And yeah, the audio situation suck. And then people can yell all they want about latency and how useful this and that may be for professionals and compared to Windows and so on.
It would had been nice with ONE solution which just worked.
Personally I've used OSS whenever possible because it has had support for the hardware I had and have just worked. So that has been my preferred choice and I haven't cared for the advantages and differences with others.
Of course money helps.
Anyway, why bother if it's not worth it (through sales of cards, money from the OS provider, driver sales or donations) and hard to do?
As far as BeOS vs Linux vs OS X I assume the number of installations and potential sales matters to. OS X may have even better drivers because there may be less stupid requirements, more stability and money involed. But at least with Linux you'd be able to sell to more people than with BeOS, Syllable, AROS, SkyOS. Sure no-one bothers with them (unless the drivers and card specs where open because then the developers of those OSes would probably try to modify and make them work in their OSes.)
... except when you have to give away things you don't want to give away or are forced to give up patent rights or whatever.
But open-source or not isn't the issue there either. The license and protection of IP is.
There are NVidia open source drivers and they work about as well as the ATI/AMD open source drivers. It is the closed source NVidia drivers developed by NVidia that work better than either of the open source drivers.
So are the open-source Nvidia drivers developed by Nvidia? If not you fail.
Stupid.
The fact whatever the code is open-source or not got nothing to do with the quality of the driver.
.. plus you usually could switch firmware to get a "pro-style" card for people who needed one.
Reminds me of a friends Radeon 9200 and/or 9600. Which is kinda funny since they are the only cards/generation which people can truly claim where superior to Nividas offerings and that was only thanks to the FX-line and the 3Dfx purchase/Xbox GPU development I assume. Anyhow, so you play some Warcraft III only, and get a Windows dialog with the message:
"ATI bla bla reset GPU/card bla bla" ... and your game quit.
Awesome! Thanks! But I guess there was a reason / issue which lead to the reset. But yeah. Can't say I trust AMD/ATI as much as Nivida, dunno what I would do if the AMD/ATI card actually benchmarked better, but that's not very likely to happen anyway.
Put it all together:
Decent drivers + binary drivers for lots of OSes + performance + energy consumption + CUDA + eventually PhysX (don't know how much it matter)
and it's hard to make the scale tilt to AMDs advantage.
I'm not trolling but it's not my area.
And yeah, everyone seem to say Nvidia work better.
But then the Nivida drivers is closed and I read how they ignored stuff already made in other places to do their own solution instead. Probably/eventually because the underlying systems changed all the freaking time anyway. Or something such.
And yeah, I assume things hook into X.org to. But it's my area of expertise, I would had much preferred if someone knowledgeable would had said the same stuff instead :D
Since I've ran all of Linux, FreeBSD and Solaris all I can say is just that even with the Nivida drivers on FreeBSD and Solaris they more or less simply work, more so on Solaris I think. I don't remember but I think you had to redo something to get them running on FreeBSD after an upgrade. On Linux however didn't they used to become broken/disabled as soon as you upgraded something and then you had to install them again?
So even if there are implementations for all of the platforms and they may be similar obviously they work better on some than others.
Personally I like the stability of Solaris.
Reminds me of the day I was stupid enough to test Archlinux after all the fanboys yelling about how amazing it was. Was back in 0.7 but then a simply update broke both all USB devices (switched USB stack / device AFAIK) and the Alsamixer so my SIP-telephony didn't worked.
Such things may have been "fun" back in the days, if you tried to get things to work. But it's mostly just fun the first time it happens, and if you get them solved. It's not very fun at all when you do have things working and then someone else break it and you have to figure out why.
Some people may enjoy it, I don't.
If I remember things right I may have had a bunch of issues getting CounterPath X-lite software to run (the only good SIP-client which was available) in various OSes and distributions to. And in that case it didn't only had to "make sound work" but also make the mic work, let me adjust the level of the mic, have short delays, don't make longer delays, decent sound quality, don't crash, so on so on...
On Solaris it was pretty disturbing that everything, including Gnome, is installed with only SUNaudio support and not for instance Open Sound System which I needed to make things actually work, and which is also excellent.
... If Firefox worked better on Wine ...
So does it? If not what's your point?
Also if it does: Do it on all drivers or just a few?
How can you lay this at the feet of the graphics card manufacturers? The closed source binary drivers (NVidia) work just fine. The open source ATI stuff is mostly junk. It's a bit unfair to say OpenGL is bad just because the open source guys can't implement it correctly in the Linux drivers.
Logic fail: Does not compute.
Both Nvidia and AMD is graphic card manufacturers (or well, GPU.)
One work, the other doesn't.
Sure one is open-source and one isn't but I doubt that's the reason one work better than the other?
Would Nvidias work worse if it was open-source? If AMD closed their source would it magically start to work better?
If we talk about non-hardware manufacturers who have to reverse engineer / guess how the drivers should be written then yes, they would probably deliver a worse product.
I read some post earlier about changes within Linux and how much Nvidia had reimplemented / ignore the stuff within the kernel to make things work.
I don't know enough about the matter to write a decent reply and explanation. That guy(?) did.
I guess patents / not wanting to reveal stuff / DRM may not be as much as an issue with the kernel as it would had been with GPL 3? But it's probably more convenient when done as Nivida does things, and maybe they are freer when it comes to how to implement things because they don't have to "make it look good" and as close to what the kernel developers have in mind but rather just make it work and ignore the crap-fest which is Linux ABI stability.
Until graphics card manufacturers take Linux seriously
They probably would if it wasn't thanks to GPL.
I don't know what the issues would be with submitting the code as open-source and into the kernel but whatever. I assume GPL is a big reason regardless of whatever it's code into the kernel, binary blobs, changes within the API, whatever.
If it wasn't a bitch maybe they would care more.
I doubt they will be able to, even if it's true. Such activity would almost certainly be regarded as a State Secret and shielded as such.
Yeah, how would someone ever be able to leak the truth?!
Oh wait :D
I tend to only post with [x] No Karma Bonus, mostly by mistake since I added it at some time, but I started doing so because of all the stupid moderation and less "fall" down to -1. But yeah, that leaves me at 1 to start with and maybe less chance of getting noticed / get high moderation as well.
The high point posts are the ones which comes early, starts a thread of comments even though they may not have much to do at all with the first post in the thread and become higher moderated early. Because no-one bothers to read the eventually just as insightful comments further down.
Hence and that's why you have/need to throw in your post in some of the early threads instead of post a completely new one because no-one will give a shit.
Also I guess there's too many chefs, eventually you'll get many posts saying the same thing and the reason there's no-one reading down below and so many shitty posts is that there's so many reading and commenting on Slashdot. Obviously.
Was better back in the days when it actually _WAS_ news for nerds to, and you got insightful comments on hardware, OS, programming languages and so on.
Now it's closer to those "omg-I-think-this-videoclip-is-funny-so-I-add-it-to-your-portal-of-funny-video-clips"-sites but with articles instead.
Let's keep it nerdy please :/
OSnews was and could had been a solution but with Thom as main poster I don't know.. Kinda shitty.
Eugenia may have been herself but at-least she posted some cool stuff. Now it's mostly Thoms why-I-hate-H.264-and-why-everyone-should-agree-with-me-on-everything blog.
In Firefox or Opera or whatever I used to click out all the status-bar, window resize, steal focus, so on so on in the browser anyway.
Retarded that it's possible in the first place.
Everyone who makes links using java-script should be shoot.
Not to troll but you're fucking retarded as shit and I hope you get raped to death.
Personally I would like to be able to say things like that without chicking out as AC and hence have the freedom to do so without having moderators moderate me as troll :D
Now when they do it doesn't matter much since you can just post the same crap as AC anyway.
Now they're going to seek injunction against Google. (Yes, I DO think they're THAT RETARDED.)
Makes me wonder why Sony haven't made their own web-browser yet. With their own protocols, their own search engine, their own content, ..., and preferably their own regulation so they could easily had fixed what happened.
Back in the old days, an organization from Japan would send over Ninjas to take care of the problem. I bet Sony misses those days -sigh-
Thankfully we're safe here in Scandinavia, with all the pirates and all :)