Don't overestimate your own complexity and worth as a human being. All of our consciousness may just be an emergent behavior from billions of neural connections, people seem to get defensive when they hear of efforts to create a machine equal to them, like it would make them worth less or something. I think a lot more of it is just hope, hope that they can't be that easily replaced by a machine. I on the other hand hope this program makes some major progress, I think machines would complement us well. Regards, Steve
Individual distros have been doing this for years. Red Hat is one company that is known for its extensive testing of the kernel (as well as many other OSS projects). Don't use a vanilla kernel if you're running a production environment. Regards, Steve
Here's one of the sources. Sorry about that, I cited it in some other posts but forgot in this one:) The other sources were places like newsforge, but the exact links I can't seem to find right now. My intent was not to start any kind of flame war, just to note an observation. The misinformation spread on slashdot recently is ridiculous and I'm just trying to counter it a bit. Whether or not someone agrees with me though I guess is a different story. Regards, Steve
What do you mean if they learned anything? Fedora has come to be one of the most successful distros yet. Sure some users left Red Hat (an upper maximum of 10,000) but they gained 400,000 in Fedora and their Enterprise line is doing better then ever. Red Hat is doing everything right, while also being a major backbone in open source development (most of those programs you use have a lot of code from Red Hat paid engineers). There is a reason Michael Dell just invested 99.5 million in the company, he sees it going places. Why should they change? Their growth rates have never been stronger. Regards, Steve
Fedora is officially a testbed of technologies to be integrated into RHEL. Fedora is more or less the base for their enterprise line and that is the plan. Fedora will still be headed by red hat engineers and still funded by red hat, just from a political/financial standpoint they'll be more independant and more open to outside developers. This is already being shown with Fedora Core 4 and the Extras repository. Regards, Steve
Fedora is the base of their Enterprise Linux line. Whatever Fedora does will become a large chunk of RHEL. Red Hat pays their engineers to work on Fedora, Fedora will still be headed by Red Hat engineers, just from a financial and project standpoint they'll be more independant. Regards, Steve
Read this. Ubuntu is nothing but a bunch of previous debian unstable and testing users who migrated. Fedora is one of the leading distros and hs been for a while. It's gained that much popularity and it isn't even 2 years old yet. If you've never used Fedora then you wouldn't understand how great and seamless it all works together. In fact, Ubuntu uses Gnome and most of Gnome was coded by Red Hat and Fedora engineers (along with a significant chunk from Ximian too) and they continue to advance it to this very day. Ubuntu is not competition for Fedora, Ubuntu is just some Debian users shifting over. Regards, Steve
Fedora's growth rate is 3 times that of the next fastest growing distro, Gentoo. In a little under 2 years Fedora has over 400,000 live servers on the net (yes a few were prior RH servers, but estimates show only about 10,000 - 20,000). Gentoo's growth rate is fast but they still are only around 63,000 servers. Fedora is overtaking Suse (they are about 25,000 servers apart). The two biggest distros are Red Hat Enterprise with 1.6 million servers and Debian with 760,000 servers. Most of the Ubuntu users are previous Debian testing and unstable users and previous Gentoo users. Red Hat is currently by far the biggest supporter of Gnome, the only company that ever claim close was Ximian. Red Hat dumps a ton of money into Gnome including developers, HIGs, user studies, quality assurance, and general advancement of the free desktop. Ubuntu is not even in the same ballpark as Fedora, its users just make a lot of noise and its founder has a lot of money for PR. Regards, Steve
Yea, and the design seems a bit like it is on a shaky foundation. It is not anonymous as it claims, but seems to be more targeted towards plausible deniability. If you read their little explanation you'll see that they don't say that one peer will never know the ip of another peer, but rather they simply claim that lets say for instance the publisher can always claim the bouncer spoofed his IP. Technically I guess it makes sense, but in court who knows how it would hold up. I can send you a file right now with a spoofed IP, that doesn't mean I won't get caught. In my oppinion there are better networks out there already for true anonymous file trading such as Mute and Ants. Quite honestly, I'd be weary of using this program as it is, especially if you really need to be anonymous. I'm waiting for the next generation of bit torrent to be built on something like i2p which would imho be awesome. If I misinterpreted Rodi's explanation please let me know. Regards, Steve
Or.... just go to about:config and change extensions.disabledObsolete to false and never worry about any of what you just wrote about no matter what platform you're using:) That option has been in there since at least 0.7, I hope you havent been unzipping and editing those file this whole time. Regards, Steve
Sorry should have clarified, I meant for a desktop platform like Suse and Fedora arms are a minority. I have quite a few devices with arm processors:) More or less I guess what I was saying is that there are different "markets" even in an open system and different projects might be better off focusing more on their "market" rather then trying to stick their hand in every "market" out there. Regards, Steve
I don't think they are talking about mac. Hell, this next release of Fedora on June 6th will be the first to support the Mac (most importanty the mac mini). I think this is referring to things like why should Suse or Fedora run on Arm processors? If these distros were targeting them specifically it'd be different, but Fedora and Suse target mainly X86 and X86_64 as far as I know. Why make programmers focus attention on platforms that will rarely be used? I myself am a programmer and find that after the top 3 or 4 platforms being targeted, your efforts on other platforms start to get stretched to the point of diminishing returns. It eventually cuts into you're regular work and I think it really does affect code quality. I look at it kind of like code optimization, 10% of a program in many cases will be used 90% of the time, and supporting platforms with little use or popularity usually wind up using up a large percentage of your time in testing and debugging. Please note that I'm not saying platform diversity is bad, it is indeed a good thing and very important and that is why its nice that some open source projects such as NetBSD target every platform under the sun. For best code quality though, its *usually* best to stick to as few platforms as possible. (Note: NetBSD does a surprisingly good job of keeping acceptable code quality while retaining support for many platforms) Regards, Steve
Read up on neural networks:) The brain can be measured more accurately in complexity of its connections. When we can start simulating neural networks with trillions of connections all running in parallel and sending signals a few times a second, then we'll be there. Not only would the computer be aware like we are, but itd think faster too, i.e. it would realize something is happening or the proper action to take faster then we currently can. Regards Steve
Surprisingly it works pretty well. MY job uses it all the time to collaborate between teams in philadelphia, jacksonville and tennessee. Its not the coolest solution from a tech point of view, but it works well for what it does. Regards, Steve
If you really think all Red Hat does is package up software that others create and sell it then perhaps you should read this. Without Red Hat dumping millions of dollars into kernel developement, apache, gnome, etc... each year, OSS as we know it would become stagnant. The only reason linux has the enterprise capabilities that it does is because of Red Hat paying top kernel developers (including Alan Cox). Red Hat also are the guys advancing the linux desktop and doing studies with live subjects on how to improve the gui, etc... Regards, Steve
The guy linking to the stats is not only linking to a page from a company with a competing product, but he is also the founder of the company. I'd be careful of anything he says. But yes you're right about how the tests don't accurately show how it would perform. From personal experience and talking with other people about it, Netscape Directory is clearly a very nice product and I think this guy is just scared because it's open source now, so he is spreading FUD. Regards, Steve
The guy that linked to the stats not only linked to a page of a company with a competing product (akin to Microsoft talking about Linux), but he is also the founder of the company. I'd ignore him and take anything he says with a grain of salt. Regards, Steve
Perhaps you should stop flaming and duplicating the same post on every comment that you don't like. Netscape Directory is a high quality product and it is known for that, and many posts in here have agreed with me. The benchmarks you linked to are not only limited in scope but also put out by the company that makes a competing product. They are no more legitimate then benchmarks put out by Microsoft on Linux's performance. In fact, you're so adament about screaming how bad Netscape Directory is that I wouldnt be surprised if you worked for Symas.
So lets see... I've talked to engineers that have dealt with the code and tested it, along with other folks who have extensively used the product, along with myself who has also setup a server and found it quite easy and you're saying my claims are baseless, yet you link to a company putting out benchmarks that are no different the Mcirosoft's Get the Facts campaign. You sir are the one with baseless claims. I can only assume that you work for Symas because their product is quite limited in funtionality and features when compared to Netscape and I see no reason why anyone would argue in favor of them other then the fact that open sourcing Netscape Directory just made Symas irrelevant as a business. If you disagree with my post, respond with something that shows otherwise, not this mindless blabbering that you responded with. Regards, Steve
Do you find it at all interesting that EliteTorrents.org now just points at http://oy.sdsc.edu/ ? That is not a government server, perhaps these hackers had a major dns server hack and pretended to be people they aren't to reporters. Something wierd is going on here and noone that runs or owns the server has been contacted yet by authorities so I can only assume that in addition to all the other evidence, this is just very clever hackers. Regards, Steve
Their DNS entry is just pointing to here: http://oy.sdsc.edu/ so I have no clue whats going on. Is it possible that these hackers spoofed all the news and media coverage by claiming to be people they aren't and then either social engineered the ICE webmaster to update the entry or hacked the ICE page too? The media has been known to just accept and report what its told, they may not have verified the identities of the guys who they quoted. Regards, Steve
Netscape Directory is very very fast and very very easy to install and configure. After using OpenLDAP, I'm sure everyone can agree that it is not worth your sanity just to configure a program:) Netscape Directory makes this all easy, it integrates well and is highly efficient. As I said in another post, the Netscape engineers who coded this (very bright guys) claim that one mid to high end server running Netscape Directoy can handle 200,000 clients. This is a huge gain for linux in enterprise. Regards, Steve
In the short term no they wont make this money back right away, but in the long term they'll make it back a thousand fold. Anyone who has ever tried to setup and configure OpenLDAP knows that its not worth it and will send you to a mental hospital fairly quickly. Netscape Directory (or whatever they're calling it now) is not only extremely easy to configure, but it was designed by brilliant engineers. Back a few years ago the engineers were claiming that one typical server running Netscape Directory could handle 200,000 clients. I haven't looked at the code yet, but according to some Red Hat enginneers that I've talked to that have seen it, they confirm that this is probably possible and were generally extrememly impressed with the code quality. Netscape Directory is high quality from its core all the way out to its exterior with easy configuration, how often do you see that in any environment(commercial or open).
I know that a few of the Fedora devs commented on how they also got a whole bunch of additional code that they hadn't even asked for but came along with Netscape Directory that they are still trying to figure out what to do with. In a worst case scenario, they'll just open source it and let the community find uses for it (Red Hat open sources everything they do, they even allow any open source projects free use of any patents they may hold, patents btw are only held as legal defense). This a great advancement for the community and should allow many more businesses to start migrating to linux. Back to my original point though... this will allow many more companies to switch to linux, whether it be Red Hat or some other distro it doesn't matter. Overall it will increase linux's marketshare and as a result make linux more popular leading more businesses to look at it as an alternative. A good percentage of those businesses will probably become Red Hat customers so everyone wins. Regards, Steve
Slashdot Mirror
Don't overestimate your own complexity and worth as a human being. All of our consciousness may just be an emergent behavior from billions of neural connections, people seem to get defensive when they hear of efforts to create a machine equal to them, like it would make them worth less or something. I think a lot more of it is just hope, hope that they can't be that easily replaced by a machine. I on the other hand hope this program makes some major progress, I think machines would complement us well.
Regards,
Steve
Individual distros have been doing this for years. Red Hat is one company that is known for its extensive testing of the kernel (as well as many other OSS projects). Don't use a vanilla kernel if you're running a production environment.
Regards,
Steve
I believe Ubuntu was included with Debian.
Regards,
Steve
Here's one of the sources. Sorry about that, I cited it in some other posts but forgot in this one :) The other sources were places like newsforge, but the exact links I can't seem to find right now. My intent was not to start any kind of flame war, just to note an observation. The misinformation spread on slashdot recently is ridiculous and I'm just trying to counter it a bit. Whether or not someone agrees with me though I guess is a different story.
Regards,
Steve
That negative image that you're thinking of is non-existant. Its just a small group of people making a bunch of noise.
Regards,
Steve
What do you mean if they learned anything? Fedora has come to be one of the most successful distros yet. Sure some users left Red Hat (an upper maximum of 10,000) but they gained 400,000 in Fedora and their Enterprise line is doing better then ever. Red Hat is doing everything right, while also being a major backbone in open source development (most of those programs you use have a lot of code from Red Hat paid engineers). There is a reason Michael Dell just invested 99.5 million in the company, he sees it going places. Why should they change? Their growth rates have never been stronger.
Regards,
Steve
Fedora is officially a testbed of technologies to be integrated into RHEL. Fedora is more or less the base for their enterprise line and that is the plan. Fedora will still be headed by red hat engineers and still funded by red hat, just from a political/financial standpoint they'll be more independant and more open to outside developers. This is already being shown with Fedora Core 4 and the Extras repository.
Regards,
Steve
Fedora is the base of their Enterprise Linux line. Whatever Fedora does will become a large chunk of RHEL. Red Hat pays their engineers to work on Fedora, Fedora will still be headed by Red Hat engineers, just from a financial and project standpoint they'll be more independant.
Regards,
Steve
You might want to read this.
Regards,
Steve
Read this. Ubuntu is nothing but a bunch of previous debian unstable and testing users who migrated. Fedora is one of the leading distros and hs been for a while. It's gained that much popularity and it isn't even 2 years old yet. If you've never used Fedora then you wouldn't understand how great and seamless it all works together. In fact, Ubuntu uses Gnome and most of Gnome was coded by Red Hat and Fedora engineers (along with a significant chunk from Ximian too) and they continue to advance it to this very day. Ubuntu is not competition for Fedora, Ubuntu is just some Debian users shifting over.
Regards,
Steve
Fedora's growth rate is 3 times that of the next fastest growing distro, Gentoo. In a little under 2 years Fedora has over 400,000 live servers on the net (yes a few were prior RH servers, but estimates show only about 10,000 - 20,000). Gentoo's growth rate is fast but they still are only around 63,000 servers. Fedora is overtaking Suse (they are about 25,000 servers apart). The two biggest distros are Red Hat Enterprise with 1.6 million servers and Debian with 760,000 servers. Most of the Ubuntu users are previous Debian testing and unstable users and previous Gentoo users. Red Hat is currently by far the biggest supporter of Gnome, the only company that ever claim close was Ximian. Red Hat dumps a ton of money into Gnome including developers, HIGs, user studies, quality assurance, and general advancement of the free desktop. Ubuntu is not even in the same ballpark as Fedora, its users just make a lot of noise and its founder has a lot of money for PR.
Regards,
Steve
Yea, and the design seems a bit like it is on a shaky foundation. It is not anonymous as it claims, but seems to be more targeted towards plausible deniability. If you read their little explanation you'll see that they don't say that one peer will never know the ip of another peer, but rather they simply claim that lets say for instance the publisher can always claim the bouncer spoofed his IP. Technically I guess it makes sense, but in court who knows how it would hold up. I can send you a file right now with a spoofed IP, that doesn't mean I won't get caught. In my oppinion there are better networks out there already for true anonymous file trading such as Mute and Ants. Quite honestly, I'd be weary of using this program as it is, especially if you really need to be anonymous. I'm waiting for the next generation of bit torrent to be built on something like i2p which would imho be awesome. If I misinterpreted Rodi's explanation please let me know.
Regards,
Steve
Or.... just go to about:config and change extensions.disabledObsolete to false and never worry about any of what you just wrote about no matter what platform you're using:) That option has been in there since at least 0.7, I hope you havent been unzipping and editing those file this whole time.
Regards,
Steve
Sorry should have clarified, I meant for a desktop platform like Suse and Fedora arms are a minority. I have quite a few devices with arm processors:) More or less I guess what I was saying is that there are different "markets" even in an open system and different projects might be better off focusing more on their "market" rather then trying to stick their hand in every "market" out there.
Regards,
Steve
I don't think they are talking about mac. Hell, this next release of Fedora on June 6th will be the first to support the Mac (most importanty the mac mini). I think this is referring to things like why should Suse or Fedora run on Arm processors? If these distros were targeting them specifically it'd be different, but Fedora and Suse target mainly X86 and X86_64 as far as I know. Why make programmers focus attention on platforms that will rarely be used? I myself am a programmer and find that after the top 3 or 4 platforms being targeted, your efforts on other platforms start to get stretched to the point of diminishing returns. It eventually cuts into you're regular work and I think it really does affect code quality. I look at it kind of like code optimization, 10% of a program in many cases will be used 90% of the time, and supporting platforms with little use or popularity usually wind up using up a large percentage of your time in testing and debugging. Please note that I'm not saying platform diversity is bad, it is indeed a good thing and very important and that is why its nice that some open source projects such as NetBSD target every platform under the sun. For best code quality though, its *usually* best to stick to as few platforms as possible. (Note: NetBSD does a surprisingly good job of keeping acceptable code quality while retaining support for many platforms)
Regards,
Steve
Read up on neural networks :) The brain can be measured more accurately in complexity of its connections. When we can start simulating neural networks with trillions of connections all running in parallel and sending signals a few times a second, then we'll be there. Not only would the computer be aware like we are, but itd think faster too, i.e. it would realize something is happening or the proper action to take faster then we currently can.
Regards
Steve
Surprisingly it works pretty well. MY job uses it all the time to collaborate between teams in philadelphia, jacksonville and tennessee. Its not the coolest solution from a tech point of view, but it works well for what it does.
Regards,
Steve
If you really think all Red Hat does is package up software that others create and sell it then perhaps you should read this. Without Red Hat dumping millions of dollars into kernel developement, apache, gnome, etc... each year, OSS as we know it would become stagnant. The only reason linux has the enterprise capabilities that it does is because of Red Hat paying top kernel developers (including Alan Cox). Red Hat also are the guys advancing the linux desktop and doing studies with live subjects on how to improve the gui, etc...
Regards,
Steve
The guy linking to the stats is not only linking to a page from a company with a competing product, but he is also the founder of the company. I'd be careful of anything he says. But yes you're right about how the tests don't accurately show how it would perform. From personal experience and talking with other people about it, Netscape Directory is clearly a very nice product and I think this guy is just scared because it's open source now, so he is spreading FUD.
Regards,
Steve
The guy that linked to the stats not only linked to a page of a company with a competing product (akin to Microsoft talking about Linux), but he is also the founder of the company. I'd ignore him and take anything he says with a grain of salt.
Regards,
Steve
Perhaps you should stop flaming and duplicating the same post on every comment that you don't like. Netscape Directory is a high quality product and it is known for that, and many posts in here have agreed with me. The benchmarks you linked to are not only limited in scope but also put out by the company that makes a competing product. They are no more legitimate then benchmarks put out by Microsoft on Linux's performance. In fact, you're so adament about screaming how bad Netscape Directory is that I wouldnt be surprised if you worked for Symas.
So lets see... I've talked to engineers that have dealt with the code and tested it, along with other folks who have extensively used the product, along with myself who has also setup a server and found it quite easy and you're saying my claims are baseless, yet you link to a company putting out benchmarks that are no different the Mcirosoft's Get the Facts campaign. You sir are the one with baseless claims. I can only assume that you work for Symas because their product is quite limited in funtionality and features when compared to Netscape and I see no reason why anyone would argue in favor of them other then the fact that open sourcing Netscape Directory just made Symas irrelevant as a business. If you disagree with my post, respond with something that shows otherwise, not this mindless blabbering that you responded with.
Regards,
Steve
Do you find it at all interesting that EliteTorrents.org now just points at http://oy.sdsc.edu/ ? That is not a government server, perhaps these hackers had a major dns server hack and pretended to be people they aren't to reporters. Something wierd is going on here and noone that runs or owns the server has been contacted yet by authorities so I can only assume that in addition to all the other evidence, this is just very clever hackers.
Regards,
Steve
Their DNS entry is just pointing to here: http://oy.sdsc.edu/ so I have no clue whats going on. Is it possible that these hackers spoofed all the news and media coverage by claiming to be people they aren't and then either social engineered the ICE webmaster to update the entry or hacked the ICE page too? The media has been known to just accept and report what its told, they may not have verified the identities of the guys who they quoted.
Regards,
Steve
Netscape Directory is very very fast and very very easy to install and configure. After using OpenLDAP, I'm sure everyone can agree that it is not worth your sanity just to configure a program:) Netscape Directory makes this all easy, it integrates well and is highly efficient. As I said in another post, the Netscape engineers who coded this (very bright guys) claim that one mid to high end server running Netscape Directoy can handle 200,000 clients. This is a huge gain for linux in enterprise.
Regards,
Steve
In the short term no they wont make this money back right away, but in the long term they'll make it back a thousand fold. Anyone who has ever tried to setup and configure OpenLDAP knows that its not worth it and will send you to a mental hospital fairly quickly. Netscape Directory (or whatever they're calling it now) is not only extremely easy to configure, but it was designed by brilliant engineers. Back a few years ago the engineers were claiming that one typical server running Netscape Directory could handle 200,000 clients. I haven't looked at the code yet, but according to some Red Hat enginneers that I've talked to that have seen it, they confirm that this is probably possible and were generally extrememly impressed with the code quality. Netscape Directory is high quality from its core all the way out to its exterior with easy configuration, how often do you see that in any environment(commercial or open).
I know that a few of the Fedora devs commented on how they also got a whole bunch of additional code that they hadn't even asked for but came along with Netscape Directory that they are still trying to figure out what to do with. In a worst case scenario, they'll just open source it and let the community find uses for it (Red Hat open sources everything they do, they even allow any open source projects free use of any patents they may hold, patents btw are only held as legal defense). This a great advancement for the community and should allow many more businesses to start migrating to linux. Back to my original point though... this will allow many more companies to switch to linux, whether it be Red Hat or some other distro it doesn't matter. Overall it will increase linux's marketshare and as a result make linux more popular leading more businesses to look at it as an alternative. A good percentage of those businesses will probably become Red Hat customers so everyone wins.
Regards,
Steve