Though it is difficult to give weight to the whole "100% Pure Java" statement since if Sun pulled LWJGL into the core tomorrow then the application would be "100% Pure Java". Would that change the preception of the Java-ness of the application? Very murky waters these are.
"They" are not trying to kid anyone. As stated on the website, "we" are attempting to show that gaming with reasonable performance is possible with Java. I believe that we are doing just that.
I would be very interested for you to back up your 7x claim. What metrics are you using for the comparison especially since the preview is NOT Quake?
And let's talk about the native machine coded libraries. What's your beef? (Check out my post to "Not "Implemented entirely in Java" before you reply.)
DISCLAIMER: I am not being defensive. I am trying to root out issues that people have with Java and gaming as that is the purpose of this preview.
It's great that you bring this up. There ARE other vendors with JVM's. For exmaple, IBM. IBM's JVM 1.3.X is considerably (~30%) faster than the Sun JVM.
As for Sun and Java (and I mean to start no flame wars here), it seems that IBM is doing just as much, or even more for the community (with Jikes and Eclipse for just a start) than Sun is.
This is a very interesting post but I'm glad that you brought up a VERY common misconception. How do you think that Java reads from files or from the network or displays to the screen? It's all JNI (i.e. native methods). There's a reason that there's about 5MB of.dll /.so files in the JRE. So take most any "100% Java" application and turn off native methods and see how far you get.
As for the playable perspective, the only difference between this implementation and a playable implemenation is that input is disabled (and not included in the.jar for obvious reasons).
As for being impressed, you should be. As recently as a few weeks ago there have been news postings on Slashdot that vehemently denies the possibility of gaming at a reasonable speed under Java. Now it seems that the argument has changed from "not possible" to "well it's still slower than native". What happened to the "not possible"? Let's get back to the "not possible" line.
Will there be a retort for everything that comes out with Java? What if I came out with something that was faster? I rue that day I tell you!
DISCLAIMER: I mean all of this light-heartedly in the spirit of open discussion.
Slashdot Mirror
By no means.
Though it is difficult to give weight to the whole "100% Pure Java" statement since if Sun pulled LWJGL into the core tomorrow then the application would be "100% Pure Java". Would that change the preception of the Java-ness of the application? Very murky waters these are.
We are trying to keep up with the questions that we are getting by adding FAQ elements as they come up.
Its non-trivial to formulate a FAQ a priori so bear with us.
"They" are not trying to kid anyone. As stated on the website, "we" are attempting to show that gaming with reasonable performance is possible with Java. I believe that we are doing just that.
I would be very interested for you to back up your 7x claim. What metrics are you using for the comparison especially since the preview is NOT Quake?
And let's talk about the native machine coded libraries. What's your beef? (Check out my post to "Not "Implemented entirely in Java" before you reply.)
DISCLAIMER: I am not being defensive. I am trying to root out issues that people have with Java and gaming as that is the purpose of this preview.
It's great that you bring this up. There ARE other vendors with JVM's. For exmaple, IBM. IBM's JVM 1.3.X is considerably (~30%) faster than the Sun JVM.
As for Sun and Java (and I mean to start no flame wars here), it seems that IBM is doing just as much, or even more for the community (with Jikes and Eclipse for just a start) than Sun is.
IBM -- where's the 1.4.2 for Windows!!!!!
This is a very interesting post but I'm glad that you brought up a VERY common misconception. How do you think that Java reads from files or from the network or displays to the screen? It's all JNI (i.e. native methods). There's a reason that there's about 5MB of .dll / .so files in the JRE. So take most any "100% Java" application and turn off native methods and see how far you get.
.jar for obvious reasons).
As for the playable perspective, the only difference between this implementation and a playable implemenation is that input is disabled (and not included in the
As for being impressed, you should be. As recently as a few weeks ago there have been news postings on Slashdot that vehemently denies the possibility of gaming at a reasonable speed under Java. Now it seems that the argument has changed from "not possible" to "well it's still slower than native". What happened to the "not possible"? Let's get back to the "not possible" line.
Will there be a retort for everything that comes out with Java? What if I came out with something that was faster? I rue that day I tell you!
DISCLAIMER: I mean all of this light-heartedly in the spirit of open discussion.