When you put an page on the internet with a Java applet using an MS extension, what are the chance of using the applet in a Linux, Mac (non-IE) or Solaris browser?
Answer: NONE
This does in include the fact that you could only use Internet Explorer to see the applet. Netscape, Opera, etc. on Windows would show a broken applet aswell.
Users would think that only IE works, and the rest of the browsers are broken.
Sun gave the world Java, and it was good. Sun license Java to Microsoft, and they INTENTIONALLY broke it!
At install time, people should be given options and a thorough explanation.
Example: Opera will allow you browse the internet in the same way Internet Explorer....blah blah blah...and will not hinder nor interfer with Internet Explorer in any way.
Installing every competitors applications would cause some serious bloat on an already bloated OS.
Users should still be able to go back to the original install disks to ADD apps such as Apple's Quicktime.
MS licensed Java, then released their own extensions in a compiler.
That was not part of the license. It broke the back of Java, and it's momentum.
Profit!...WHAT PROFIT? What are you going on about? Java?
Your pathetic attempt at an analogy shows you have no idea.
Ask anyone who has written an applet for a browser and would like to use newer Java implementations (i.e. anything about Java 1.1).
Works on Linux. Works on Macs. You need to install Sun's java to get it to work on Windows else it looks broken. Joe Average using Winows has no idea that this is the case and just assumes Java is crap.
How else will people actually see that Java works, and it works well if they are NOT stuck with Microsofts pathetic implementation. Certainly Java has flaws (which are usually bypassed) but some "write once, run on any platform" is better than none.
Java is Sun's contribution to computing, and it is on par with Xerox's GUI and Mouse, Apples multimedia in a desktop and Microsoft's Office.
Millions of developers want to take the next step with Java, but Microsoft is intentionally hold them back from over 90% of users and trying to push it's C# language to further isolate all competitors (Linux, BSD, Solaris, AIX, ONX, MacOS, etc.) from the market.
The sooner this situation is rectified the better!
While I'm a computer/technology junkie, very few people in my street share the same values.
The majority of computers in my street power the fuel injection systems in peoples cars. Most have seen the internet and have little or no interest. When they need some information, they visit me or someone else.
So what does this have to do with the article/discussion? Well most houses have at least one mobile phone, most have two or three.
Till computers are a disposable appliance (yes mobile phones are disposable, because most throw their old ones away) and "just work", without need for constant software fixes and worries about virii, etc. MOBILE PHONES will rule.
WiFi is cool, but who is going to create networks in neighbourhoods? Not to mention the nightmare of maintaining such an enormous infrastructure. When there is no money to be made, or people are losing money, the best intentions soon wane.
Companies will stop making products they are losing money on, or are taking profits. Governments will also want to cash in on the action. Basically, at the end of the day, you'll have to pay!
First AmdZone say: Apple claims they have the fastest 64 bit desktop on the planet. We claim they have a pretty fast 64 bit workstation, but Opteron workstations available now seem faster.
To my knowledge there is no Opteron computer or motherboard with an AGP slot, as that will replace my Dual Athlon MP!
From ridiculous to: Update: My fears about these benchmarks have apparently been valid. This site has plenty of details about how Apple twisted results and crippled the P4 and Xeon scores. You can get the details of the testing here to back it up. If you want to see where I got the SPEC CPU2000 scores then click here.
I'm absolutely dumbfounded that people who should know better are using this tripe as "proof" for their own arguments.
For both the Dell Dimension 8300 and the Dell Precision 650, Apple/Veritest performed the multi-processor "Rate" benchmarks with hyperthreading DISABLED.
Well so did Dell, and everyone else on this benchmark, for enabling HT makes it WORSE! This person is clearly implying that benchmark would be even higher is HT was enabled.
Notice the large discrepancy between how fast Apple claims the Precision 650 is, and how fast Dell claims it is. This is because Apple crippled the floating-point in the Dell computers by not using SSE2, as I mentioned previously.
Wrong!
You can pick up a Dell 8300 with 3.0 GHz P4 (the one Apple tested), 512MB RAM, 120GB HD, CD-RW, SoundBlaster for LESS than $2000 and it is FASTER than the top-of-the-line PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 GHz costing $3000. (Faster on integer single-processor tasks, which is what most people use most of the time.)
So it all comes down to integer calculation speed now?
Have a look at what this guy is saying. He has proven Apple wrong, their benchmarks are false, so he's calling them liars, and making a very bold statement at the same time, all without every having run a benchmark himself.
Who care about the lame games, how about the games people actually play...
I also think THG is biased, but that is a personal opinion. If I took his advice, it would cost me twice as much as I usually spend. (I got Dual Athlon, work out the difference for equivalent Dual Xeon...OUCH!)
People like you have not fully grasped what Apple have just released:
a 64bit desktop computer for general use.
Certainly at $3000 the dual 2Ghz is pricey, but look at what you can do with it. This computer can work with video, audio and bitmaps NOW and it doesn't take Joe average weeks to figure out.
Only an idiot would use a shotgun to kill a fly, or a semi-trailer to bring home the groceries, but both have their place and purpose. I'm sick of idiots claiming you can create a Linux cluster to get the same power at the same price, but then not mentioning the applications they will run and more significantly their price.
Reality is MacOSX works, it works well on a G4 and even better on a G5. I'll bet no-one in your neighbourhood will buy a NEW Opteron workstation, but a few will buy a G5 Apple.
The less you know about computers and computing, the more appealing Apple's Products become.
There is something for everyone, BSD Unix for geeks, and a great interface for the rest. If only they cost a tad less!
That's Dell's job, they are the ones whose computer are be compared to, and made to look inferior.
People have been knocking Macs for years. Most have never used one for any length of time. This has put Mac users on the defensive, and that's why this guy received all the hate mail.
I hope Apple sue his pants off, as he has made statements which are more misleading than any of the benchmarks.
Linux use to grow proportionally to the available commercial titles that support linux and proportional to the ease of use of linux.
Apple and MacOS will do the same, it's just that they are so far ahead now on everything but price as you say. How many non-geek people in your street would consider Linux over MacOSX if they were the only two to chose from?
If Linux wasn't free it wouldn't have a hope in hell.
Slashdot Mirror
What about virus scanners, firewalls, updates...not to mention the actual applications...yeah right buddy!
All MS has given me is headaches!
When you put an page on the internet with a Java applet using an MS extension, what are the chance of using the applet in a Linux, Mac (non-IE) or Solaris browser?
Answer: NONE
This does in include the fact that you could only use Internet Explorer to see the applet. Netscape, Opera, etc. on Windows would show a broken applet aswell.
Users would think that only IE works, and the rest of the browsers are broken.
Sun gave the world Java, and it was good. Sun license Java to Microsoft, and they INTENTIONALLY broke it!
At install time, people should be given options and a thorough explanation.
Example: Opera will allow you browse the internet in the same way Internet Explorer....blah blah blah...and will not hinder nor interfer with Internet Explorer in any way.
Installing every competitors applications would cause some serious bloat on an already bloated OS.
Users should still be able to go back to the original install disks to ADD apps such as Apple's Quicktime.
Compare forcing an OS on people which that are charged for to a FREE application which actually helps people use other peoples applications.
If Microsoft didn't license and f**k up Java in the first place, I might agree with you, but your not seeing the bigger picture.
MS licensed Java, then released their own extensions in a compiler.
That was not part of the license. It broke the back of Java, and it's momentum.
Profit!...WHAT PROFIT? What are you going on about? Java?
Your pathetic attempt at an analogy shows you have no idea.
Ask anyone who has written an applet for a browser and would like to use newer Java implementations (i.e. anything about Java 1.1).
Works on Linux. Works on Macs. You need to install Sun's java to get it to work on Windows else it looks broken. Joe Average using Winows has no idea that this is the case and just assumes Java is crap.
How else will people actually see that Java works, and it works well if they are NOT stuck with Microsofts pathetic implementation. Certainly Java has flaws (which are usually bypassed) but some "write once, run on any platform" is better than none.
Java is Sun's contribution to computing, and it is on par with Xerox's GUI and Mouse, Apples multimedia in a desktop and Microsoft's Office.
Millions of developers want to take the next step with Java, but Microsoft is intentionally hold them back from over 90% of users and trying to push it's C# language to further isolate all competitors (Linux, BSD, Solaris, AIX, ONX, MacOS, etc.) from the market.
The sooner this situation is rectified the better!
While I'm a computer/technology junkie, very few people in my street share the same values.
The majority of computers in my street power the fuel injection systems in peoples cars. Most have seen the internet and have little or no interest. When they need some information, they visit me or someone else.
So what does this have to do with the article/discussion? Well most houses have at least one mobile phone, most have two or three.
Till computers are a disposable appliance (yes mobile phones are disposable, because most throw their old ones away) and "just work", without need for constant software fixes and worries about virii, etc. MOBILE PHONES will rule.
WiFi is cool, but who is going to create networks in neighbourhoods? Not to mention the nightmare of maintaining such an enormous infrastructure. When there is no money to be made, or people are losing money, the best intentions soon wane.
Companies will stop making products they are losing money on, or are taking profits. Governments will also want to cash in on the action. Basically, at the end of the day, you'll have to pay!
Hello, I get these all the time on accounts with my first name.
That's how people are able to comment.
Enough information has been given to reproduce the benchmarks.
And why should they put the Opteron in?
PC...that stands for Personal Computer
Not workstation or server
First AmdZone say:
Apple claims they have the fastest 64 bit desktop on the planet. We claim they have a pretty fast 64 bit workstation, but Opteron workstations available now seem faster.
To my knowledge there is no Opteron computer or motherboard with an AGP slot, as that will replace my Dual Athlon MP!
From ridiculous to:
Update: My fears about these benchmarks have apparently been valid. This site has plenty of details about how Apple twisted results and crippled the P4 and Xeon scores. You can get the details of the testing here to back it up. If you want to see where I got the SPEC CPU2000 scores then click here.
I'm absolutely dumbfounded that people who should know better are using this tripe as "proof" for their own arguments.
Well so did Dell, and everyone else on this benchmark, for enabling HT makes it WORSE! This person is clearly implying that benchmark would be even higher is HT was enabled.
Notice the large discrepancy between how fast Apple claims the Precision 650 is, and how fast Dell claims it is. This is because Apple crippled the floating-point in the Dell computers by not using SSE2, as I mentioned previously.
Wrong!
You can pick up a Dell 8300 with 3.0 GHz P4 (the one Apple tested), 512MB RAM, 120GB HD, CD-RW, SoundBlaster for LESS than $2000 and it is FASTER than the top-of-the-line PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 GHz costing $3000. (Faster on integer single-processor tasks, which is what most people use most of the time.)
So it all comes down to integer calculation speed now?
Have a look at what this guy is saying. He has proven Apple wrong, their benchmarks are false, so he's calling them liars, and making a very bold statement at the same time, all without every having run a benchmark himself.
Who care about the lame games, how about the games people actually play...
I also think THG is biased, but that is a personal opinion. If I took his advice, it would cost me twice as much as I usually spend. (I got Dual Athlon, work out the difference for equivalent Dual Xeon...OUCH!)
a 64bit desktop computer for general use.
Certainly at $3000 the dual 2Ghz is pricey, but look at what you can do with it. This computer can work with video, audio and bitmaps NOW and it doesn't take Joe average weeks to figure out.
Only an idiot would use a shotgun to kill a fly, or a semi-trailer to bring home the groceries, but both have their place and purpose. I'm sick of idiots claiming you can create a Linux cluster to get the same power at the same price, but then not mentioning the applications they will run and more significantly their price.
Reality is MacOSX works, it works well on a G4 and even better on a G5. I'll bet no-one in your neighbourhood will buy a NEW Opteron workstation, but a few will buy a G5 Apple.
The less you know about computers and computing, the more appealing Apple's Products become.
There is something for everyone, BSD Unix for geeks, and a great interface for the rest. If only they cost a tad less!
Where have I seen something like this, just before the guy goes on to abuse the product?
I am a Mac user. I have been using Macs for years. I am writing this article on a PowerMac G4. I enjoy using Macs.
Oh yeah, the start of the page this discussion is about.
More FUD
30% increase from HT, more like 5% on SOME existing software, and in some cases the benchmarks are WORSE with HT on.
Name one non-Intel benchmark which has a 30% improvement with HT on. If there is one, then I'll bet there is no way there are two!
Look whose spreading the FUD now.
So your saying, beyond a doubt, that this guy and his analysis are correct and accurate, while Apple AND Dell are BOTH wrong.
He posts an article with more distortions than Apple, and you take his side immediately.
I have no idea what country you live in, but in the U.S.A. and most of the world there are laws AGAINST false advertising.
More FUD
Benchmarks are run with hyperthreading turn ON then again with it turn OFF.
The fastest result is posted. Don't take my word for it, look at reviews all over the net.
This particular benchmark works better with hyperthreading disabled.
This guy just wants to cause a stir.
That's Dell's job, they are the ones whose computer are be compared to, and made to look inferior.
People have been knocking Macs for years. Most have never used one for any length of time. This has put Mac users on the defensive, and that's why this guy received all the hate mail.
I hope Apple sue his pants off, as he has made statements which are more misleading than any of the benchmarks.
After reading dsgrntlxmply's post above, I'm think the patent should be back dated and expired in one hit !
So basically I agree.
I didn't realize this is a common thing, but I agree it should be stopped, and soon.
SCO have stirred the international hornets nest. And soon a lot of angry people are going to start stinging SCO.
Apple and MacOS will do the same, it's just that they are so far ahead now on everything but price as you say. How many non-geek people in your street would consider Linux over MacOSX if they were the only two to chose from?
If Linux wasn't free it wouldn't have a hope in hell.
One bite and the other 97% will become Apple zealots themselves, but you virtually have to "bring them" the Apple, the rest is instinct!