I'm not saying eliminate grants. I am talking about loans and easy access to loans. There is no reason the University of Texas should be $12k in tuition for residents and $40k for non-residents. They are sitting on a $30 billion endowment which is spinning out cash. Something is rotten.
No, I am not part of the 1% and I never made "real money" and I never went to an Ivy League school and wouldn't recommend it either but I know when to spend $20k and when not to. You totally missed my point. My point is you shouldn't be looking at the COST, but looking at the education you are getting in return. Life isn't about money. University is for education, not ROI. You are focused on the wrong thing. The $20k doesn't matter in the long run. You probably spend more than that on a car. If you are saying it doesn't matter where you go to school then you haven't been living in the US. If you are worried about money and ROI you should spend that extra $20k.That's great about your friend (also Bill Gates never went to college, etc etc etc.)
I'm not sure you know how it works. If you cut out the free money, the tuition prices will magically go down and make it MORE affordable. Universities in the US are expensive because of all the easy access to government money. The universities are sitting on billions of dollars. They won't go out of business. You need to ask yourself why the University of Texas has $30 BILLION and still charges tuition. Ridiculous.
Baloney. Tuition increases are going up because of government backed loans and easy access to cheap money. If interest rates went to 14% or the government stopped backing loans then the tuition costs would drop quickly. Universities are building infrastructure like crazy and the administration is skimming off the top. The idea that the increase in cost is due to $160k year salaries (that isn't a lot of money) and advisors is comical. Salary costs for faculty is a small portion of the budget. Building and maintaining a new $500 million business school is expensive.
Exactly. Universities are charging what the market will pay. The reason the infrastructure costs are so high is because they keep building more and more. You just need to visit a major University to see this. Massive construction. They aren't poor.
No offense, but if you are worried about a $20k difference in your children's schooling then you are working in a level where you don't see where the "real" money is made. It isn't about "keeping employed". You are totally missing my point. My point is it matters when it comes to making "real" money. And I am not talking about some $150k/year job. I guarantee your Bosses boss cares about what school his hires are coming from.
I don't need to ask them. It is public information. That is baloney. You just need to look at the number of cranes on every major public research university. They might be using that excuse to not pay you much, but the President of your major university is likely earning over a million a year, or high six figures. Universities aren't hurting: you are in a bubble.
Baloney. You just have to visit a US college and see why. There are cranes everywhere and new buildings going up. US colleges are expensive because borrowing money is relatively cheap.
I wouldn't. I would go to the place where I was going to get the best education in the field of study I was interested in. If I was just looking for a good financial ROI I would go to a prestigious school and go into finance.
Sad but true. All the Supreme Court justices came from two schools (Yale or Harvard). It isn't a coincidence. America isn't a meritocracy, but I don't know any country that is.
Totally agree. I did say "best" though, not "easiest". For me college wasn't the "best" time in my life, because I was no good with women and I was struggling to complete my engineering education and working.
That is true too. Sometimes the perception intersects reality. The main point is the school you go to DOES matter in your career. It shouldn't, but this is life. Of course there are exceptions (like the tech billionaires), but that is just an outlier.
"Below the Ivy League any University of $STATE, regardless of the state, is going to be more recognizable than some podunk private college that nobody had heard of."
Again, this is simply not true. Many of the 1% have gone to "podunk private college that nobody had heard of". There is a reason these small private colleges exist (and why you have never heard of them).
If you work at a major public research university you have a massive endowment. Universities are not hurting for money and they are tax-free. They like to claim otherwise.
"Also, private universities are a complete rip-off UNLESS you are guaranteed to profit from the experience. Harvard, Yale, MIT...yeah, take out the loans because you'll never be allowed to fail once you make it through an Ivy League school...you'll make so many contacts and have more opportunities than I did graduating from a big public university."
Exactly. People ask why these schools are so expensive. THIS is the reason why. You are paying for access. The actual education is a secondary consideration. This is how the top 1% stay in the top 1%.
"As long as your school is accredited, it will do nicely, forget spending $20K more, just get the degree."
Nope. As I have said before: in America perception is more important than value. Employers definitely look at the school you are coming from based on perceived value and adjust the offers accordingly. It is illogical, but that is how life works in the West. In the UK it is even more pronounced. The "right" people go to the "right" schools. If you are looking for a return on investment it is better to spend the $20k to go to the "right" school. Personally I don't care about money enough to make a decision based on money. You should choose your education on getting educated, not based on cost or ROI.
"The difference between a Penn State degree ($17k/year for in state tuition) and a two year community college followed by a commuter life to Youngstown State ($8k/year for in state tuition) is almost nothing on the job market."
It is a big difference when it comes to money. One thing I learned in life: perception of value is more important than knowledge in America. You would be surprised at the starting salary differences based on what university you are coming from. And some companies won't even recruit from certain universities. I have worked at companies that literally actively recruit from only a handful schools. They miss a ton of good people, but in America it is about perception, not reality.
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Depends. If it is taxpayer money the answer is "as much as possible".
I'm not saying eliminate grants. I am talking about loans and easy access to loans. There is no reason the University of Texas should be $12k in tuition for residents and $40k for non-residents. They are sitting on a $30 billion endowment which is spinning out cash. Something is rotten.
Definitely. Those middle-school microsats are a direct threat to AT&T.
Another update from Rei. Thanks!
No, I am not part of the 1% and I never made "real money" and I never went to an Ivy League school and wouldn't recommend it either but I know when to spend $20k and when not to. You totally missed my point. My point is you shouldn't be looking at the COST, but looking at the education you are getting in return. Life isn't about money. University is for education, not ROI. You are focused on the wrong thing. The $20k doesn't matter in the long run. You probably spend more than that on a car. If you are saying it doesn't matter where you go to school then you haven't been living in the US. If you are worried about money and ROI you should spend that extra $20k.That's great about your friend (also Bill Gates never went to college, etc etc etc.)
I'm not sure you know how it works. If you cut out the free money, the tuition prices will magically go down and make it MORE affordable. Universities in the US are expensive because of all the easy access to government money. The universities are sitting on billions of dollars. They won't go out of business. You need to ask yourself why the University of Texas has $30 BILLION and still charges tuition. Ridiculous.
Baloney. Tuition increases are going up because of government backed loans and easy access to cheap money. If interest rates went to 14% or the government stopped backing loans then the tuition costs would drop quickly. Universities are building infrastructure like crazy and the administration is skimming off the top. The idea that the increase in cost is due to $160k year salaries (that isn't a lot of money) and advisors is comical. Salary costs for faculty is a small portion of the budget. Building and maintaining a new $500 million business school is expensive.
Earth. Welcome.
Exactly. Universities are charging what the market will pay. The reason the infrastructure costs are so high is because they keep building more and more. You just need to visit a major University to see this. Massive construction. They aren't poor.
That helps too, but if you don't have that you can get connections at University.
You missed the point. I didn't say "go study basket weaving". I said the school matters.
No offense, but if you are worried about a $20k difference in your children's schooling then you are working in a level where you don't see where the "real" money is made. It isn't about "keeping employed". You are totally missing my point. My point is it matters when it comes to making "real" money. And I am not talking about some $150k/year job. I guarantee your Bosses boss cares about what school his hires are coming from.
I don't need to ask them. It is public information. That is baloney. You just need to look at the number of cranes on every major public research university. They might be using that excuse to not pay you much, but the President of your major university is likely earning over a million a year, or high six figures. Universities aren't hurting: you are in a bubble.
Baloney. You just have to visit a US college and see why. There are cranes everywhere and new buildings going up. US colleges are expensive because borrowing money is relatively cheap.
I wouldn't. I would go to the place where I was going to get the best education in the field of study I was interested in. If I was just looking for a good financial ROI I would go to a prestigious school and go into finance.
Sad but true. All the Supreme Court justices came from two schools (Yale or Harvard). It isn't a coincidence. America isn't a meritocracy, but I don't know any country that is.
Totally agree. I did say "best" though, not "easiest". For me college wasn't the "best" time in my life, because I was no good with women and I was struggling to complete my engineering education and working.
That is true too. Sometimes the perception intersects reality. The main point is the school you go to DOES matter in your career. It shouldn't, but this is life. Of course there are exceptions (like the tech billionaires), but that is just an outlier.
Very bad advice. You should stay in Germany. You know nothing about the US.
"Below the Ivy League any University of $STATE, regardless of the state, is going to be more recognizable than some podunk private college that nobody had heard of."
Again, this is simply not true. Many of the 1% have gone to "podunk private college that nobody had heard of". There is a reason these small private colleges exist (and why you have never heard of them).
One other big one: access to the alumni network. Ivy League people "take care" of each other.
If you work at a major public research university you have a massive endowment. Universities are not hurting for money and they are tax-free. They like to claim otherwise.
"Also, private universities are a complete rip-off UNLESS you are guaranteed to profit from the experience. Harvard, Yale, MIT...yeah, take out the loans because you'll never be allowed to fail once you make it through an Ivy League school...you'll make so many contacts and have more opportunities than I did graduating from a big public university."
Exactly. People ask why these schools are so expensive. THIS is the reason why. You are paying for access. The actual education is a secondary consideration. This is how the top 1% stay in the top 1%.
"As long as your school is accredited, it will do nicely, forget spending $20K more, just get the degree."
Nope. As I have said before: in America perception is more important than value. Employers definitely look at the school you are coming from based on perceived value and adjust the offers accordingly. It is illogical, but that is how life works in the West. In the UK it is even more pronounced. The "right" people go to the "right" schools. If you are looking for a return on investment it is better to spend the $20k to go to the "right" school. Personally I don't care about money enough to make a decision based on money. You should choose your education on getting educated, not based on cost or ROI.
"The difference between a Penn State degree ($17k/year for in state tuition) and a two year community college followed by a commuter life to Youngstown State ($8k/year for in state tuition) is almost nothing on the job market."
It is a big difference when it comes to money. One thing I learned in life: perception of value is more important than knowledge in America. You would be surprised at the starting salary differences based on what university you are coming from. And some companies won't even recruit from certain universities. I have worked at companies that literally actively recruit from only a handful schools. They miss a ton of good people, but in America it is about perception, not reality.