Re:Panther/Darwin contributions?
on
FreeBSD 4.9 Released
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· Score: 2, Insightful
But why? I can understand somewhat the desire to put the FreeBSD kernel in Debian. And I can understand somewhat the desire to put the FreeBSD userland on top of Linux. But why fork it just so you can change the license?
I mean, think about it. It isn't your code and you haven't invested any sweat in it. But you want to change the license. Huh?
From the user perspective, the differences between the BSD and GPL licenses are *zero*. The differences only make themselves known if you as a developer wish to mix your own code into the project. But you're not looking to do any such thing! You only want to change the license for the sake of changing the license!
if lets say Gore was elected over Bush... Sure the Democrats may not be much better... that mentality that voting for Green is a vote wasted has got to stop.
Am I the only one who sees the non-sequitur in this post?
Damned straight! Congress is just trying to solve the problem they themselves created. Why can't they just admit they made a mistake and get out of the monopoly-creation business?
Those cities are the most densely populated because people MOVE there. You want a good high paying job in France, Paris is one of the best places to be. It's not like every Paris resident is directly descended from a common Paris ancestor some thousand years prior.
Software is a technical field. The law is concerned with precise language. Join the two and it is imperative that accurate technical definitions be used.
Is a compiler a part of the operating system? A word processor? A web browser? To you it might make no difference, but to someone trying to comply with the terms of the GPL, it makes all the difference in the world. After all, I don't have to supply source code for major components that ship with the operating system under the GPL.
Precise technical definitions are extremely important in regards to the SCO problem, simply because SCO is deliberately using imprecise and fuzzy definitions to sway public opinion.
Not to turn this into an anti-GPL thread, but since you asked...
I don't like placing restrictions on my software. Granted, the GPL has several magnitudes fewer restrictions in it than the typical EULA, but I just don't feel right about telling my users what they can or cannot do with stuff that I created in my spare time as a hobby for fun.
But I'm not a rabid ideologue. Pay me enough, and I'll gladly release my stuff under the GPL...
In the SF Bay Area, look up meer.net. They're more expensive than SBC or Earthfink, but what you get for the price of DSL+hosting compared to the other guys is (besides the usual):
Something you can actually run a server with, like 250MB storage, 10GB transfer per/month, up to 384Kbit/sec upstream, a real router and not a broadband "modem", no PPPoE, support for all operating systems, routed subnets and firewalling by default, extremely minimal restrictions on usage.
The guys running it are very helpful, and know what they are doing. You're not going to get 24/7 support, but you will get a call back within 30 minutes during normal hours. They run FreeBSD and if you want a particular "port" installed on the host machine just ask.
The best part about it, is that it's a "business" class service, even though it's a non-commercial account. You won't be sharing a subnet with 253 napster freaks. In five years with them I've never seen them down once.
Here's the best story I have about them. Last week a coworker was trying to belittle me for paying so much. He said I should go with doteasy.com instead for $7.95. This guy was an intern under my care, so I felt it my duty to set him straight. So I brought up the netcraft uptime page and checked meer net. Looked pretty damn good. A smooth upward slope ever since they switched the front server from IRIX to FreeBSD. Then I pulled up doteasy. You can check for youselves, but I have to warn you, it's not a pretty sight!
I get $50 for the disclosure, and $2000 if the filing is accepted. The bonus is $4000 if the patent is in a "targeted" area.
I'm going to start disclosing a whole bunch of obvious stuff. Not that I necessarily want them patented, but just so our company has a legal record of their being implemented or used. I still can't get over Phillips being granted a patent for something my company had shipped five years prior to their filing. Our solution to the problem was to roll over and cross license our own stuff.
Actually, the kernel is the majority, if not all, of the operating system. Having read a few books on OS design and implementation, and tangentally related books on programming and systems, it's clear to me that the experts in the field define an operating system to a kernel plus the minimum infrastructure needed to get it up and running.
What is commonly known as "UNIX" is more than just an operating system. Just like "Windows" is more than just an operating system.
I'm not the world's biggest GPL fan. But reading it rightside up, upside down, and backwards held to a mirror, it's seems to me to be a valid license in every way. There may be some very minor issues regarding definitions, but there's nothing there that SCO can use to wiggle out of their current predicament.
The US courts have upheld the much more lenient BSD license, and many much more restrictive EULAs, so the GPL seems quite court-safe where it is in the middle.
Bingo. I've never seen one, not one, UNIX shop where the remote networking capabilities of X were not used. Heck, at my work even the Windows users use Exceed or ReflectionsX! Remote networking is probably the single most useful thing in X11.
I think more people need to understand this. Stuff like libxml2 is insanely useful, but it's not strictly a GNOME library. It's a general purpose library usable (and used) by a great many projects completely unrelated to GNOME.
I would be willing to wager that >75% of those of us who run a Linux desktop don't need hardly *any* of the advanced features in the X Windows server.
Screw those 25%. They're the minority. They lost the election. Their duty is to humbly follow the behind the victorious mob!
Oh wait... Those 25% are those that actually help product the software, unlike the 75% that merely sits around and soaks up freebies.
<derail>
Okay, all facetiousness aside. The 75% is not more important than the 25%, even assuming those numbers were accurate. This isn't a democracy where the winner takes all. This is a marketplace where everyone who participates has the opportunity to win.
Let's look at some of the "advanced" features. None of them, by the way, detract anything from the experience of those using the basic features. First, Xinerama. I don't use it, since I possess only a single monitor. But I know people who do use it, and they absolutely love it. Some recent reports show that their productivity is improved. If all you do is run a single game in a single window on a single monitor, you might never want it. But if you don't, someone else using it is not going to affect you.
Second, remote networking. I use this daily. Most people I know who are on a UNIX local network use it. It frees you from the physical constraints of your workstation. And like Xinerama, if you don't use it, it doesn't affect you. Contrary to myth, the overhead of networking support for local use is non-existant. Local connections use sockets, which are damned fast.
Before you start trimming off huge chunks of X11 because one out of four people are not worthy, start with the Linux kernel. I would be willing to wager that 75% of Linux users don't need the advanced features of the kernel. Ditto for glibc. Ditto for everything else in the system.
RJH: "Hey boss, we need to set up a webserver for the new project" PHB: "Sure go ahead. Use one of the old 486 Microns" RJH: "But we can't use a 486! It's way to slow!" PHB: "There's only five people on the project. Surely that old Micron can handle it" RJH: "But it only has 16MB. There's no way I can run GNOME on it!" PHB: "I thought you said this was to be a webserver?" RJH: [grumble grumble]
One of the embedded systems I work on is a 486DX99 with 256MB. There's a lot of stuff interesting about this machine, but being a 486 is not one of them.
I have always considered socialism, communism,... as dysfunctional as any other form of plutocracy including aristocracy, draconian states, capitalist republics (profit based economy),....
Then you need to reread your parent post. When you use terms like "the Public property of humanity" and "major public property content is a gift to humanity", you are advocating collectivism, the most prevalent form of which is socialism. You need to look up the word. I didn't use it pejoratively, as the media likes to do, but according to its economic and political definition.
Pluralistic Democracies (as opposed to a plutocratic democracy) would seek a performance based economic model that significantly rewarded performance
The marketplace already significantly rewards performance. Yes, it's true. You may not realize it though, because what the general public sees as "performance" may be different than what you see. You (and I) may value software reliability, robustness and security highly, but the fact of the matter is that the general public does not. They value ease of use higher. To them, Windows has higher quality than Linux.
Sounds like you've never run a small / SOHO business my friend.:)
Ah, but I have. When you're a small business, every dollar counts. If fact, every dollar counts so much that you have to have an extremely firm footing in reality, or you'll go broke.
The reality is that a USB ID block costs $1500. If you're not going to spend this money, you might as well not be in business. It's an expenditure you're going to have to make. It would be nice if it were cheaper, but at least it's a very reasonable price.
When you say "RWE", I think you mean "neocon". Which makes you're post even more relevant. What changed the party of Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley into the party of George Bush and Michael Savage? The answer is laziness.
It's difficult to defend the principles of liberty. But it's really easy to root for the "home team". The Republicans got lazy and replaced a principled defense of liberty and limited government with populist cheering for their home party. Now they have a leadership that speaks liberty while practicing authoritarianism. Don't think I've got kind words for the Democrats, though. They sold out as well, for essentially the same reason.
So what's the lesson to be learned? Simply that trading liberty for security is the devil's bargain. I would rather have a few minor license violations "slip" through, than to resort to legalistic bullying and community surveillance.
Do you think free software (GPL or other viral licenses) should be watermarked? This could help to find GPL violations (think Everybuddy or Linksys)
You missed the point of Free Software. Ignoring some of the antics of zealous fringe, the idea of "Free Software" isn't to be a separate-but-equal analogue to proprietary software. The point of Free Software is freedom, not surveillance. Too many advocates for Free Software say their contributions are free, but act as proprietary masters with their obsession over owning, controlling and regulating the software.
It saddens me to see people advocating watermarking Free Software. Next they'll want a "FSSA" analogue to the BSA and their brownshirts.
I agree. The title of this article is "A Practical Approach...", but this is anything but practical.
I just built a quiet system using the Antec Sonata case and some well thought out components. I'm planning to build a Shuttle next which will be ever quieter. My Dell at work is virtually silent. All three are practical solutions.
They don't ask you if you'd rather have four gears or five, what you prefer for the resistance on the steering wheel, which side you want the pedals on, whether or not you want the gear shifter "inverted", and how you want the dash layed out.
KDE doesn't ask this stuff either. Get real here!
The KDE file dialog has sensible defaults. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to configure it. You just use it. Is that so hard?
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But why? I can understand somewhat the desire to put the FreeBSD kernel in Debian. And I can understand somewhat the desire to put the FreeBSD userland on top of Linux. But why fork it just so you can change the license?
I mean, think about it. It isn't your code and you haven't invested any sweat in it. But you want to change the license. Huh?
From the user perspective, the differences between the BSD and GPL licenses are *zero*. The differences only make themselves known if you as a developer wish to mix your own code into the project. But you're not looking to do any such thing! You only want to change the license for the sake of changing the license!
if lets say Gore was elected over Bush... Sure the Democrats may not be much better... that mentality that voting for Green is a vote wasted has got to stop.
Am I the only one who sees the non-sequitur in this post?
Damned straight! Congress is just trying to solve the problem they themselves created. Why can't they just admit they made a mistake and get out of the monopoly-creation business?
They can see that you have no viruses just by walking past your desk? Wow! How bad of a virus problem do you have at your place!
Those cities are the most densely populated because people MOVE there. You want a good high paying job in France, Paris is one of the best places to be. It's not like every Paris resident is directly descended from a common Paris ancestor some thousand years prior.
Software is a technical field. The law is concerned with precise language. Join the two and it is imperative that accurate technical definitions be used.
Is a compiler a part of the operating system? A word processor? A web browser? To you it might make no difference, but to someone trying to comply with the terms of the GPL, it makes all the difference in the world. After all, I don't have to supply source code for major components that ship with the operating system under the GPL.
Precise technical definitions are extremely important in regards to the SCO problem, simply because SCO is deliberately using imprecise and fuzzy definitions to sway public opinion.
Not to turn this into an anti-GPL thread, but since you asked...
I don't like placing restrictions on my software. Granted, the GPL has several magnitudes fewer restrictions in it than the typical EULA, but I just don't feel right about telling my users what they can or cannot do with stuff that I created in my spare time as a hobby for fun.
But I'm not a rabid ideologue. Pay me enough, and I'll gladly release my stuff under the GPL...
I don't use Xinerama. So I never built it. Easy.
In the SF Bay Area, look up meer.net. They're more expensive than SBC or Earthfink, but what you get for the price of DSL+hosting compared to the other guys is (besides the usual):
Something you can actually run a server with, like 250MB storage, 10GB transfer per/month, up to 384Kbit/sec upstream, a real router and not a broadband "modem", no PPPoE, support for all operating systems, routed subnets and firewalling by default, extremely minimal restrictions on usage.
The guys running it are very helpful, and know what they are doing. You're not going to get 24/7 support, but you will get a call back within 30 minutes during normal hours. They run FreeBSD and if you want a particular "port" installed on the host machine just ask.
The best part about it, is that it's a "business" class service, even though it's a non-commercial account. You won't be sharing a subnet with 253 napster freaks. In five years with them I've never seen them down once.
Here's the best story I have about them. Last week a coworker was trying to belittle me for paying so much. He said I should go with doteasy.com instead for $7.95. This guy was an intern under my care, so I felt it my duty to set him straight. So I brought up the netcraft uptime page and checked meer net. Looked pretty damn good. A smooth upward slope ever since they switched the front server from IRIX to FreeBSD. Then I pulled up doteasy. You can check for youselves, but I have to warn you, it's not a pretty sight!
I get $50 for the disclosure, and $2000 if the filing is accepted. The bonus is $4000 if the patent is in a "targeted" area.
I'm going to start disclosing a whole bunch of obvious stuff. Not that I necessarily want them patented, but just so our company has a legal record of their being implemented or used. I still can't get over Phillips being granted a patent for something my company had shipped five years prior to their filing. Our solution to the problem was to roll over and cross license our own stuff.
Actually, the kernel is the majority, if not all, of the operating system. Having read a few books on OS design and implementation, and tangentally related books on programming and systems, it's clear to me that the experts in the field define an operating system to a kernel plus the minimum infrastructure needed to get it up and running.
What is commonly known as "UNIX" is more than just an operating system. Just like "Windows" is more than just an operating system.
I'm not the world's biggest GPL fan. But reading it rightside up, upside down, and backwards held to a mirror, it's seems to me to be a valid license in every way. There may be some very minor issues regarding definitions, but there's nothing there that SCO can use to wiggle out of their current predicament.
The US courts have upheld the much more lenient BSD license, and many much more restrictive EULAs, so the GPL seems quite court-safe where it is in the middle.
Bingo. I've never seen one, not one, UNIX shop where the remote networking capabilities of X were not used. Heck, at my work even the Windows users use Exceed or ReflectionsX! Remote networking is probably the single most useful thing in X11.
I think more people need to understand this. Stuff like libxml2 is insanely useful, but it's not strictly a GNOME library. It's a general purpose library usable (and used) by a great many projects completely unrelated to GNOME.
I would be willing to wager that >75% of those of us who run a Linux desktop don't need hardly *any* of the advanced features in the X Windows server.
Screw those 25%. They're the minority. They lost the election. Their duty is to humbly follow the behind the victorious mob!
Oh wait... Those 25% are those that actually help product the software, unlike the 75% that merely sits around and soaks up freebies.
<derail>
Okay, all facetiousness aside. The 75% is not more important than the 25%, even assuming those numbers were accurate. This isn't a democracy where the winner takes all. This is a marketplace where everyone who participates has the opportunity to win.
Let's look at some of the "advanced" features. None of them, by the way, detract anything from the experience of those using the basic features. First, Xinerama. I don't use it, since I possess only a single monitor. But I know people who do use it, and they absolutely love it. Some recent reports show that their productivity is improved. If all you do is run a single game in a single window on a single monitor, you might never want it. But if you don't, someone else using it is not going to affect you.
Second, remote networking. I use this daily. Most people I know who are on a UNIX local network use it. It frees you from the physical constraints of your workstation. And like Xinerama, if you don't use it, it doesn't affect you. Contrary to myth, the overhead of networking support for local use is non-existant. Local connections use sockets, which are damned fast.
Before you start trimming off huge chunks of X11 because one out of four people are not worthy, start with the Linux kernel. I would be willing to wager that 75% of Linux users don't need the advanced features of the kernel. Ditto for glibc. Ditto for everything else in the system.
We need to conserve people. We're running out of dying stars.
RJH: "Hey boss, we need to set up a webserver for the new project"
PHB: "Sure go ahead. Use one of the old 486 Microns"
RJH: "But we can't use a 486! It's way to slow!"
PHB: "There's only five people on the project. Surely that old Micron can handle it"
RJH: "But it only has 16MB. There's no way I can run GNOME on it!"
PHB: "I thought you said this was to be a webserver?"
RJH: [grumble grumble]
One of the embedded systems I work on is a 486DX99 with 256MB. There's a lot of stuff interesting about this machine, but being a 486 is not one of them.
I have always considered socialism, communism, ... as dysfunctional as any other form of plutocracy including aristocracy, draconian states, capitalist republics (profit based economy), ....
Then you need to reread your parent post. When you use terms like "the Public property of humanity" and "major public property content is a gift to humanity", you are advocating collectivism, the most prevalent form of which is socialism. You need to look up the word. I didn't use it pejoratively, as the media likes to do, but according to its economic and political definition.
Pluralistic Democracies (as opposed to a plutocratic democracy) would seek a performance based economic model that significantly rewarded performance
The marketplace already significantly rewards performance. Yes, it's true. You may not realize it though, because what the general public sees as "performance" may be different than what you see. You (and I) may value software reliability, robustness and security highly, but the fact of the matter is that the general public does not. They value ease of use higher. To them, Windows has higher quality than Linux.
Sounds like you've never run a small / SOHO business my friend. :)
Ah, but I have. When you're a small business, every dollar counts. If fact, every dollar counts so much that you have to have an extremely firm footing in reality, or you'll go broke.
The reality is that a USB ID block costs $1500. If you're not going to spend this money, you might as well not be in business. It's an expenditure you're going to have to make. It would be nice if it were cheaper, but at least it's a very reasonable price.
When you say "RWE", I think you mean "neocon". Which makes you're post even more relevant. What changed the party of Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley into the party of George Bush and Michael Savage? The answer is laziness.
It's difficult to defend the principles of liberty. But it's really easy to root for the "home team". The Republicans got lazy and replaced a principled defense of liberty and limited government with populist cheering for their home party. Now they have a leadership that speaks liberty while practicing authoritarianism. Don't think I've got kind words for the Democrats, though. They sold out as well, for essentially the same reason.
So what's the lesson to be learned? Simply that trading liberty for security is the devil's bargain. I would rather have a few minor license violations "slip" through, than to resort to legalistic bullying and community surveillance.
The "free" in Free Software does not mean "socialism". I think you need to sit back, take a deep breath, and rejoin reality.
Do you think free software (GPL or other viral licenses) should be watermarked? This could help to find GPL violations (think Everybuddy or Linksys)
You missed the point of Free Software. Ignoring some of the antics of zealous fringe, the idea of "Free Software" isn't to be a separate-but-equal analogue to proprietary software. The point of Free Software is freedom, not surveillance. Too many advocates for Free Software say their contributions are free, but act as proprietary masters with their obsession over owning, controlling and regulating the software.
It saddens me to see people advocating watermarking Free Software. Next they'll want a "FSSA" analogue to the BSA and their brownshirts.
I agree. The title of this article is "A Practical Approach...", but this is anything but practical.
I just built a quiet system using the Antec Sonata case and some well thought out components. I'm planning to build a Shuttle next which will be ever quieter. My Dell at work is virtually silent. All three are practical solutions.
They don't ask you if you'd rather have four gears or five, what you prefer for the resistance on the steering wheel, which side you want the pedals on, whether or not you want the gear shifter "inverted", and how you want the dash layed out.
KDE doesn't ask this stuff either. Get real here!
The KDE file dialog has sensible defaults. You don't have to change anything. You don't have to configure it. You just use it. Is that so hard?
Usability != conformity