A couple of years ago I picked up Java, cause I liked the promise of WORA. I thought neat, I can use my Windows machine, which I have at home, to write software, and it will work for Linux too (and FreeBSD, or BeOS, or whatever. But I was just thinking of Linux back then).
I thought this was a good idea. I thought it would be worth it, cause Linux could become a plausible choice for desktop. Now that I've been following the Linux scene (mostly thru/.) for maybe 9 months, it seems that even though I would bring my Java apps to Linux environment, people wouldn't touch it just because it is Java. How strange.
I don't want to have to learn some native widget set again, be it Gnome, or what-have-you. I already have had to learn a couple, and basically I'm fed up with it.
If Java won't stick for desktops then fine. You bet on a technology, and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But in that case, I'll be going back to the sorry land of Windows. They've got the tools to build attractive GUI's easily.
A general programming language? Just like C, or C++, or Eiffel, or Smalltalk, or Ada, or Pascal, are. And a whole bunch of other languages -- my apologies to the fans of those GP languages whose favorite I forgot.
It has been multi-paradigm from the start. That is one of it's strengths and one of Java's shortcomings.
To me, C++ trying to be both procedural and OO language is it's greatest weakness. Like you have heard so many times before, right tool for the right job. When I need to go low level, procedural languages like C do the job very nicely. When I need to do OO, I rather choose the language with elegant, and pure OO support, like Smalltalk, Eiffel and Java have (and now all the smalltalkers will jump out and scream how Java is not nearly as pure a OO language as ST is). Anyway, it does alot better job at it than C++ does, IMHO.
For that matter though, I've yet to see any very large systems coded in Java either.
Admittedly, I can't give you the exactly LOC counts for these projects, but some largeish Java projects I know of include:
And the omission of generic programming is unforgivable.
It's coming, but hasn't been implemented in the language yet. But I do hope they manage to do alot better than what Stroustrup did for C++. Hopefully they will do it similar to Eiffel's implementation.
Yeah, I think Fortran is still pretty much alive:)
I every now and then over hear the math heads in our uni mumble something about it. They seem to think its good for doing some math things with nth dimension or sumfin.
Excellent language for doing what? To me, Object Pascal looks like a copy of C++, with most of the same mistakes in it. It still breaks the encapsulation of OO, at least on logical level, as C++ does. It's a hybrid language, trying to be both procedural and OO at the same time, as C++ does.
Since Delphi seems to be the only environment where Object Pascal is used, why not make it a truly Object Oriented programming language, and loose the procedural stuff in it, thus gaining the benefits that OO paradigm promises to deliver.
The only people I've found that truly dislike Delphi are VB programmers, they know it's better, it's actually object oriented (vs Object Based), more flexible, and the compiled programs run faster.
Well, I've never had to program in VB, and I can't say that I truly dislike Delphi, but at least to me, it is still Object Based, and not Object Oriented environment.
When I look at Object Pascal, I see many of the same mistakes in the language that are present in C++, and which I think in some cases break the OO paradigm and add unnecessary work, or bookkeeping, to the shoulders of a over-stressed programmer. In my book, Object Pascal is a hybrid language, or Object Based, as you put it, and in the same category with C++. Unfortunately, I think hybrid languages have little use. If I need to do quick and dirty, efficient code, I'd rather use C, if I need to add to the abstraction level, I rather go for languages with much better OO support, such as Java, or Smalltalk.
Another thing that bothers me with Delphi is the way the whole project is tied to its IDE. My first experiences with Delphi was about 6 months ago, when a project was handed to me which uses Delphi to build its GUI (the layers underneath are pure C). I found it extremely difficult to understand the flow of the program, when I constantly had to switch between looking at the code editor and the object inspector to figure out what the heck was going on with the program flow. Very frustrating. Another thing I think is a bad idea is this whole aspect of building a GUI first, and then attaching bits and pieces of code scattered around the GUI components to do the work. It's ok for quick prototyping but ends to lead to a bad design if used to build the entire project. You can avoid this, of course, to an extent, but the Delphi IDE is build in a way that makes this harder than doing it the Delphi way, which means most programmers just won't bother fighting the IDE for this.
Anyway, there are alot of loyal, and quite vocal supporters of Delphi, and I listened to them and had high expectations when I first had the chance to start learning it, but I was somewhat disappointed when I actually got to see what it was.
Well, it seems they also added code patches during those router failures in their guest book ASP. Things like not accepting escape codes, HTML redirects, etc etc.
Didn't get into their status report tho. So I'm not so sure, if someone actually would crack it, that they'd announce it in their status page.
4) They couldn't implement a stable protocol stack for W2K, broke the GPL and stole it from Linux instead. Except that someone forgot to wipe off the fingerprints:)
4) They couldn't implement a working protocol stack for W2K, broke the GPL and stole it from Linux instead. Except that someone forgot to wipe off the fingerprints:)
For those who don't want to be bothered to download MSIE...
Hahaha! I love the auto-load of www.redhat.com. I used to like MS DOS, and you had to go mess it up with this bulky bloatware called windows. win2000 needs/dev device management. Youre registry editor SUCKS! Whats with all the HEX strings/keys? Cant you use english? I dunno where to even start messing with that.
...
Is there a problem with Chardonnay That used to get beeped by spell checkers a lot.?
...
Nice IE only site. Like anyone who interested in bustn in would use a machine that could run ie :-). YOu guysll probably put this little site up for a week then claim its hack proof. Good luck post-release.
...
Would someone please crash this [beep] server already so that I can get back to work...
...
And you cant even say S C R A P!
MS filtering at its finest:)
...
For what its worth, the site works just fine with Opera; if not with Netscape! And Kudos to whoever put the freebsd link in the guest book!
Slashdot Mirror
Agreed.
/.) for maybe 9 months, it seems that even though I would bring my Java apps to Linux environment, people wouldn't touch it just because it is Java. How strange.
A couple of years ago I picked up Java, cause I liked the promise of WORA. I thought neat, I can use my Windows machine, which I have at home, to write software, and it will work for Linux too (and FreeBSD, or BeOS, or whatever. But I was just thinking of Linux back then).
I thought this was a good idea. I thought it would be worth it, cause Linux could become a plausible choice for desktop. Now that I've been following the Linux scene (mostly thru
I don't want to have to learn some native widget set again, be it Gnome, or what-have-you. I already have had to learn a couple, and basically I'm fed up with it.
If Java won't stick for desktops then fine. You bet on a technology, and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But in that case, I'll be going back to the sorry land of Windows. They've got the tools to build attractive GUI's easily.
*shrug*
Then what is it????
A general programming language? Just like C, or C++, or Eiffel, or Smalltalk, or Ada, or Pascal, are. And a whole bunch of other languages -- my apologies to the fans of those GP languages whose favorite I forgot.
To me, C++ trying to be both procedural and OO language is it's greatest weakness. Like you have heard so many times before, right tool for the right job. When I need to go low level, procedural languages like C do the job very nicely. When I need to do OO, I rather choose the language with elegant, and pure OO support, like Smalltalk, Eiffel and Java have (and now all the smalltalkers will jump out and scream how Java is not nearly as pure a OO language as ST is). Anyway, it does alot better job at it than C++ does, IMHO.
Admittedly, I can't give you the exactly LOC counts for these projects, but some largeish Java projects I know of include:
Well, perhaps this is because both C and C++ (and even Perl) have been around alot longer than Java?
It's coming, but hasn't been implemented in the language yet. But I do hope they manage to do alot better than what Stroustrup did for C++. Hopefully they will do it similar to Eiffel's implementation.
I every now and then over hear the math heads in our uni mumble something about it. They seem to think its good for doing some math things with nth dimension or sumfin.
Go figure. They must be crazy.
Excellent language for doing what? To me, Object Pascal looks like a copy of C++, with most of the same mistakes in it. It still breaks the encapsulation of OO, at least on logical level, as C++ does. It's a hybrid language, trying to be both procedural and OO at the same time, as C++ does.
Since Delphi seems to be the only environment where Object Pascal is used, why not make it a truly Object Oriented programming language, and loose the procedural stuff in it, thus gaining the benefits that OO paradigm promises to deliver.
Well, I've never had to program in VB, and I can't say that I truly dislike Delphi, but at least to me, it is still Object Based, and not Object Oriented environment.
When I look at Object Pascal, I see many of the same mistakes in the language that are present in C++, and which I think in some cases break the OO paradigm and add unnecessary work, or bookkeeping, to the shoulders of a over-stressed programmer. In my book, Object Pascal is a hybrid language, or Object Based, as you put it, and in the same category with C++. Unfortunately, I think hybrid languages have little use. If I need to do quick and dirty, efficient code, I'd rather use C, if I need to add to the abstraction level, I rather go for languages with much better OO support, such as Java, or Smalltalk.
Another thing that bothers me with Delphi is the way the whole project is tied to its IDE. My first experiences with Delphi was about 6 months ago, when a project was handed to me which uses Delphi to build its GUI (the layers underneath are pure C). I found it extremely difficult to understand the flow of the program, when I constantly had to switch between looking at the code editor and the object inspector to figure out what the heck was going on with the program flow. Very frustrating. Another thing I think is a bad idea is this whole aspect of building a GUI first, and then attaching bits and pieces of code scattered around the GUI components to do the work. It's ok for quick prototyping but ends to lead to a bad design if used to build the entire project. You can avoid this, of course, to an extent, but the Delphi IDE is build in a way that makes this harder than doing it the Delphi way, which means most programmers just won't bother fighting the IDE for this.
Anyway, there are alot of loyal, and quite vocal supporters of Delphi, and I listened to them and had high expectations when I first had the chance to start learning it, but I was somewhat disappointed when I actually got to see what it was.
Oh well, that's life I guess..
Cause no one would call Object Pascal anything but ugly and repulsive.
I didn't see the smiley, though!
Just out of curiosity, why do you think CMM is totally anal? In your opinion?
But it's DEAD now.
Damn, third day of thunder or what..?
This guy is stealing all of Microsoft's thunder (pun intended). And giving out prizes too.
:)
That is so unethical!
Well, it seems they also added code patches during those router failures in their guest book ASP. Things like not accepting escape codes, HTML redirects, etc etc.
Didn't get into their status report tho. So I'm not so sure, if someone actually would crack it, that they'd announce it in their status page.
It's gone again.
Oh well, I'm going home. The microserfs don't wanna play wif me.
4) They couldn't implement a stable protocol stack for W2K, broke the GPL and stole it from Linux instead. Except that someone forgot to wipe off the fingerprints :)
Ahh... conspiracies....
4) They couldn't implement a working protocol stack for W2K, broke the GPL and stole it from Linux instead. Except that someone forgot to wipe off the fingerprints :)
Ahh... conspiracies....
you can write dirty words by using escape codes
It's just too funny!
Clicked on Guestbook and it redirected me to redhat.com
Or maybe somebody already cracked it, and they can't figure out how to fix it?!
HA!