We too get lots of paper junk mail in our mailbox and lots of spam in our e-mail box set up just for receiving junk mail. Only people I want to communicate with get my personal e-mail info. We don't mind the paper junk mail too much, since it helps the wood stove keep the house warm in winter.
...if a collection agency wants personal info like address and SSN...
If anyone who I think has no legitimate need for my SS number, ( such as a collection agency) I give them a number for someone who died ages ago. I has worked fine so far. They also get a bogus name, but my correct PO Box if the want to mail me a "prize" they said I won. I have never gotten any prizes. Somtimes, if I have some time, just for fun, I respond to phishing scams with such bogus data. If most people replied to unsolicited request for personal information with made up fiction, these scams would soon die out. In give out true info only if I initiate the proceedings.
...receive a penetration attempt within 20 minutes of connection..
Who cares about the attempts, what matters is whether they succeeed to screw up the computer or not. Since hackers love challenges, I'd bet that hackers attempt to infect Macs also. Its just that no one has succeeded. There is a big difference whether a computer gets hosed just by the fact it gets hooked to the Internet or whether it first requires some deliberate user action to give some sort of permission. No computer can be secured against clever social engineering if the user has total control over the computer. That's why nobody around here gets the admin password to our Macs. Unfortunately, Windows machines cannot be secured this way, because many programs will not work properly under a non-admin account.
That is exactly one big reason DRM sucks and why it will ALWAYS get cracked. When a vendor of *anything* sells a good, they lose ALL right to control the use or disposition thereof. Anyone can use or dispose of their music, just like anything else, how they feel like, any so called agreements notwithstanding. The vendor may refuse to sell again to someone for whatever reason they may come up with, but once a sale is made, they have no more control over the purchased item. If I sell or give away the music and keep a copy for myself, I am violating copyright law, but not any sort of legally enforceable "agreement", since the parties to such so called agreements cannot be identified. Apple's DRM fortunately is not very oppressive and can be lived with.
Parents can also set up allowance accounts for their kids. The parents are bound to pay the credit card, but the kids are not bound by any "agreement" with Apple.
A OSX machine CAN'T get rooted if the user does not know the admin password and account name. If a bad person has physical access to the machine, they might just steal it and be done with it.
This is EXACTLY what I do on our OSX computers, but CAN'T on any of the Windows machines. On Windows, many programs will NOT run correctly with all of their functionality intact if the user is not an admin. On OSX all programs run just fine without the user knowing the admin password. Only I can install anything on the Macs, but on the Windows machines EVERYBODY can install anything they want, including malware.
I have never been stupid enough to put any computer on the Internet without a firewall, but I have read of plenty of accounts where people have connected an out of the box Windows machine that way and got infected before they had the time to download the needed patches. I have NEVER heard of this happening to a Mac. Macs have most network processes and ports turned off by default.
If a system is not useable, who but a geek wants it? Computers now are commodities, like TV sets and cars. Users expect them to be easy to use, and just work (TM). If the market share theory were correct, then Macs should have about 2% of the over 68000 nasties known to exist, but in practice the Macs have 0% nasty share. This means empirically that Macs are inherently more secure than Windows computers. Why should a spammer care if their zombie computer is a Mac or a Windows box, as long as they can use it to spew forth spam?
...requires a tad more technical understanding to operate...
I don't think Mac OSX users need to be more geeky than the average Windows users. Apple has achieved what no other *NIX implementation has, namely that an ordinary Joe user can operate and maintain a secure, powerful and complex *NIX based computer. Apple has achieved the best of both worlds, a computer that a neophyte can use easily, as well as giving the most advanced geek a powerful machine to play with.
Our Macs are used by multiple users and none of them get to have the administrator password, but are just set up as standard users. This means that if they want to do anything, such as install a program, they cannot do it. This goes a long way to prevent even "stupid" users from getting the system damaged by clicking on anything that comes along. This means the system admin has more work, needing to install and maintain each computer, but that is still less trouble than cleaning up a malware damaged system.
Mac OSX comes from a MULTI user heritage, but Windows is STILL basically a SINGLE user PERSONAL computer and most programs assume that the user has full privileges on the machine. On our Windows machines limiting users this way does not work, because many existing programs will not run properly if a user does not have admininstrator rights. For example, many programs want write access to the registry for some reason. Windows developers have to make sure that their programs run correctly in all ways even if a user is limited.
...All the user needs to do is to run a buggy version of Apache, or something layered on top and they are vulnerable...
They were talking about a Mac out of the box, where Apache and other server programming is disabled. The whole contest is moot now anyway, since the legal eagles apparently got involved. Macs will get malware on them only if some crook manages to do some sophisticated social engineering to trick dumb users into co-operating in some manner. I don't think a Mac can be infected just by the fact it is connected directly, without a firewall, to the Internet. Try that with a Windows box and it won't last long if it has a fast always on connection. then Social engineering however, works on the USER, not on the computer.
Not so. Apple lets you burn CDs with which you can do the same as with any of your other CDs. You can rip those CDs to whatever music player you want, now or in the future. You can even sell those CDs if you erase the original downloaded files.
...you cannot remove the DRM from a copy with Apple's software...
Of course you can remove the DRM with iTunes. Just burn a CD and then you can copy that CD as often as you like. You can also rip that CD to mp3 files and burn those on CDs. Some complain about a loss of quality, but then unless you are playing your music on anything less than a $1000+ music system in a quiet home, you'll never hear the difference. If you have such a system and golden ears to match, just stick to buying CDs or vinyl records. Apple's DRM is designed to prevent you fom EASILY putting your entire downloaded music collection up for downloading by millions of people you have never met.
...The DCMA allows companies to Rights Restrict copyrighted works in perpetuity...
I thought that the DMCA makes it illegal to manufacture and sell a device that allows someone else to use this to circumvent the copy protection. If I invent my own way of circumventing the copy protection, I may use it for myself, but I am not allowed to make it available to anyone else.
...Why isn't this stuff in the public domain yet?...
That easy! The representatives you elected were bought and paid for by the big entertainment companies. Only the voters can make these works become pulic domain by letting these bribed legislators know why they'll be out of office come the next election. If the voters don't care, then the problem will NEVER get fixed.
Copy protected CDs are a farce. Since ordinary audio players need to be able to play them, the copy protection cannot screw around with the audio information. All of these schemes work by taking advantage of the fact that computer CD drives pay attention to data that audio players ignore. Howver, some computer CD players also can be instructed to ignore any non-music data. Their makers cannot be sued under the DMCA, since all the player does is ignore data the copy protection relies on to allow special software to prevent playback or ripping on a computer. There is no decryption of the actual music data needed, as there is in iTunes downloads.
Each iTunes file also carries the APPLEID code of the downloader who legally bought the music. I don't know if that is added afterwards by iTunes, like the encryption or comes as part of the file.
Since the music is bought fair and square, I don't think Apple has a legal leg to stand on here. If everybody just keeps the music files for their own use and doesn't illegally and unethically put them out where anybody can download them, the RIAA should not get too upset about this. It's one thing to share some music with a few friends, something that was done with cassettes, but quite another to make the songs available to millions of downloaders. If people would not do bad stuff like that, there never would have been DRM or DMCA at all. Apple could also make a version of iTunes for Linux.
...Yes, obsucrity is absolutly he only reason it hasn't been targeted...
I don't believe that even for one CPU cycle time. There are millions of Macs and hackers love challenges. A hacker who could penetrate a Mac would and could feel very proud, but aside from some clever social engineering, tricking the user into giving some sort of OK, it is not likely to happen. If a user downloads some file onto a Mac, and if that file is a program that has never run before on that system, a dialog comes up warning the user not to click OK unless he/she KNOWS that it is a safe program. If there is any doubt, the user is advised to click cancel.
....they believe themselves to be invincible to malware/viruses/exploits/etc...
Actually they are invincible if they don't run as admin and are not social engineered into typing in passwords or giving the OK for first run of unknown apps.
The vast majority of Mac users, just like most PC users don't run servers, so your comments don't apply at all. Mac OSX disables the root account by default and there is no reason for the average Mac user to enable it, even if he/she can figure out how. On windows you don't have to run a server, only connect it to a fast Internet service will get the computer messed up unless all the correct patches are applied before that network cable is ever plugged in.
Indeed true! Unlike Windows, Mac Apps do NOT require admin privs in order to work correctly. If a user downloads a file that tries to execute, a window will come up warning the user and recommending to not allow this execution. If a malware wants to install something, the Mac asks for an admin password, which if the user doesn't know it or give it if he/she does know it, cannot get any further. There are millions of Mac users already, and I know of no malware that affects Macs that don't require some social engineering to trick a user into giving some kind of OK or password in order for that nasty to have any effect.
Windows still is and always was in effect a single user system where the software writers ASSUME that the user has total access to any spot on the hard drive, as it has always been with a PERSONAL computer. Many programs, especially malware, write to the registry for example, so the malware will run when the computer boots. If and when MS decides to finally change that FACT, backward compatibility with most existing programs will disappear, forcing all users to upgrade most, if not all of their software apps. *NIX OS come from a true multi-user heritage and have always been more secure by neccessity.
Actually, I don't find Apple's DRM all that opressive. So far I've been able to do what I want with the music I downloaded from them.
On contracts, how is anybody going to prove that it was I that clicked that mouse and not someone else using my computer? How about the neigbors 10 year old boy who is not legally qualified to enter into an enforecable contract? He can certainly click a mouse. I'm sure millions of ten year olds have clicked on so called EULAs, to install their games, all of which are legally worthless. As long as it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt WHO actually agreed to what, there is NO contract, no matter how many high priced lawyers have opinions to the contrary. If a piece of paper with my signature exists and can be presented in court, it becomes pretty difficult to deny such an obligation. That's why ALL truly legally binding contracts are STILL being done on paper, because ephemeral electronic bits are too easy to alter or spoof their true origin. Just try signing for a loan with a mouse click sometime!
Perhaps some sort of notarized electronic signatures using public key cryptography may become common in the future, but until that becomes universal, paper will be king of contracts.
I wonder if most/.ers have such golden ears and $1000+ sound equipment that they could even HEAR the difference between an original CD and an encoded file in mp3 or aac if the bitrate were reasonably high, say 192bps or greater. I highly doubt even at only 128bps anyone in a car or most situations other than at home with a high class audio system could tell the difference. Certainly there is no computer sound system that has enough quality to showcase the difference between playing a CD in the drive or ripped mp3 copy of the same from the HD. The distortion of most anemic computer amp/speaker sets will certainly mask any quality differences due to encoding, if the encoding is well done.
Slashdot Mirror
...simply don't give it out....
Better yet, if its not illegal such as for the tax man or drivers license etc., give out fictional information to pollute their databases.
...Now, my mailbox is flooded with junk...
We too get lots of paper junk mail in our mailbox and lots of spam in our e-mail box set up just for receiving junk mail. Only people I want to communicate with get my personal e-mail info. We don't mind the paper junk mail too much, since it helps the wood stove keep the house warm in winter.
...if a collection agency wants personal info like address and SSN...
If anyone who I think has no legitimate need for my SS number, ( such as a collection agency) I give them a number for someone who died ages ago. I has worked fine so far. They also get a bogus name, but my correct PO Box if the want to mail me a "prize" they said I won. I have never gotten any prizes. Somtimes, if I have some time, just for fun, I respond to phishing scams with such bogus data. If most people replied to unsolicited request for personal information with made up fiction, these scams would soon die out. In give out true info only if I initiate the proceedings.
...receive a penetration attempt within 20 minutes of connection..
Who cares about the attempts, what matters is whether they succeeed to screw up the computer or not. Since hackers love challenges, I'd bet that hackers attempt to infect Macs also. Its just that no one has succeeded. There is a big difference whether a computer gets hosed just by the fact it gets hooked to the Internet or whether it first requires some deliberate user action to give some sort of permission. No computer can be secured against clever social engineering if the user has total control over the computer. That's why nobody around here gets the admin password to our Macs. Unfortunately, Windows machines cannot be secured this way, because many programs will not work properly under a non-admin account.
...but also to prevent them from playing them....
That is exactly one big reason DRM sucks and why it will ALWAYS get cracked. When a vendor of *anything* sells a good, they lose ALL right to control the use or disposition thereof. Anyone can use or dispose of their music, just like anything else, how they feel like, any so called agreements notwithstanding. The vendor may refuse to sell again to someone for whatever reason they may come up with, but once a sale is made, they have no more control over the purchased item. If I sell or give away the music and keep a copy for myself, I am violating copyright law, but not any sort of legally enforceable "agreement", since the parties to such so called agreements cannot be identified. Apple's DRM fortunately is not very oppressive and can be lived with.
Parents can also set up allowance accounts for their kids. The parents are bound to pay the credit card, but the kids are not bound by any "agreement" with Apple.
...if a machine gets r00ted...
A OSX machine CAN'T get rooted if the user does not know the admin password and account name. If a bad person has physical access to the machine, they might just steal it and be done with it.
...take away their administrative privlidges...
This is EXACTLY what I do on our OSX computers, but CAN'T on any of the Windows machines. On Windows, many programs will NOT run correctly with all of their functionality intact if the user is not an admin. On OSX all programs run just fine without the user knowing the admin password. Only I can install anything on the Macs, but on the Windows machines EVERYBODY can install anything they want, including malware.
I have never been stupid enough to put any computer on the Internet without a firewall, but I have read of plenty of accounts where people have connected an out of the box Windows machine that way and got infected before they had the time to download the needed patches. I have NEVER heard of this happening to a Mac. Macs have most network processes and ports turned off by default.
...long as usability is valued over security...
If a system is not useable, who but a geek wants it? Computers now are commodities, like TV sets and cars. Users expect them to be easy to use, and just work (TM). If the market share theory were correct, then Macs should have about 2% of the over 68000 nasties known to exist, but in practice the Macs have 0% nasty share. This means empirically that Macs are inherently more secure than Windows computers. Why should a spammer care if their zombie computer is a Mac or a Windows box, as long as they can use it to spew forth spam?
...requires a tad more technical understanding to operate...
I don't think Mac OSX users need to be more geeky than the average Windows users. Apple has achieved what no other *NIX implementation has, namely that an ordinary Joe user can operate and maintain a secure, powerful and complex *NIX based computer. Apple has achieved the best of both worlds, a computer that a neophyte can use easily, as well as giving the most advanced geek a powerful machine to play with.
...to install things they really shouldn't...
Our Macs are used by multiple users and none of them get to have the administrator password, but are just set up as standard users. This means that if they want to do anything, such as install a program, they cannot do it. This goes a long way to prevent even "stupid" users from getting the system damaged by clicking on anything that comes along. This means the system admin has more work, needing to install and maintain each computer, but that is still less trouble than cleaning up a malware damaged system.
Mac OSX comes from a MULTI user heritage, but Windows is STILL basically a SINGLE user PERSONAL computer and most programs assume that the user has full privileges on the machine. On our Windows machines limiting users this way does not work, because many existing programs will not run properly if a user does not have admininstrator rights. For example, many programs want write access to the registry for some reason. Windows developers have to make sure that their programs run correctly in all ways even if a user is limited.
...All the user needs to do is to run a buggy version of Apache, or something layered on top and they are vulnerable...
They were talking about a Mac out of the box, where Apache and other server programming is disabled. The whole contest is moot now anyway, since the legal eagles apparently got involved. Macs will get malware on them only if some crook manages to do some sophisticated social engineering to trick dumb users into co-operating in some manner. I don't think a Mac can be infected just by the fact it is connected directly, without a firewall, to the Internet. Try that with a Windows box and it won't last long if it has a fast always on connection. then Social engineering however, works on the USER, not on the computer.
...your investment will forever be tied ...
Not so. Apple lets you burn CDs with which you can do the same as with any of your other CDs. You can rip those CDs to whatever music player you want, now or in the future. You can even sell those CDs if you erase the original downloaded files.
...you cannot remove the DRM from a copy with Apple's software...
Of course you can remove the DRM with iTunes. Just burn a CD and then you can copy that CD as often as you like. You can also rip that CD to mp3 files and burn those on CDs. Some complain about a loss of quality, but then unless you are playing your music on anything less than a $1000+ music system in a quiet home, you'll never hear the difference. If you have such a system and golden ears to match, just stick to buying CDs or vinyl records. Apple's DRM is designed to prevent you fom EASILY putting your entire downloaded music collection up for downloading by millions of people you have never met.
...The DCMA allows companies to Rights Restrict copyrighted works in perpetuity...
I thought that the DMCA makes it illegal to manufacture and sell a device that allows someone else to use this to circumvent the copy protection. If I invent my own way of circumventing the copy protection, I may use it for myself, but I am not allowed to make it available to anyone else.
...Why isn't this stuff in the public domain yet?...
That easy! The representatives you elected were bought and paid for by the big entertainment companies. Only the voters can make these works become pulic domain by letting these bribed legislators know why they'll be out of office come the next election. If the voters don't care, then the problem will NEVER get fixed.
...More and more CDs are copy protected...
Copy protected CDs are a farce. Since ordinary audio players need to be able to play them, the copy protection cannot screw around with the audio information. All of these schemes work by taking advantage of the fact that computer CD drives pay attention to data that audio players ignore. Howver, some computer CD players also can be instructed to ignore any non-music data. Their makers cannot be sued under the DMCA, since all the player does is ignore data the copy protection relies on to allow special software to prevent playback or ripping on a computer. There is no decryption of the actual music data needed, as there is in iTunes downloads.
...to do digital watermarking...
Each iTunes file also carries the APPLEID code of the downloader who legally bought the music. I don't know if that is added afterwards by iTunes, like the encryption or comes as part of the file.
Since the music is bought fair and square, I don't think Apple has a legal leg to stand on here. If everybody just keeps the music files for their own use and doesn't illegally and unethically put them out where anybody can download them, the RIAA should not get too upset about this. It's one thing to share some music with a few friends, something that was done with cassettes, but quite another to make the songs available to millions of downloaders. If people would not do bad stuff like that, there never would have been DRM or DMCA at all. Apple could also make a version of iTunes for Linux.
...Yes, obsucrity is absolutly he only reason it hasn't been targeted...
I don't believe that even for one CPU cycle time. There are millions of Macs and hackers love challenges. A hacker who could penetrate a Mac would and could feel very proud, but aside from some clever social engineering, tricking the user into giving some sort of OK, it is not likely to happen. If a user downloads some file onto a Mac, and if that file is a program that has never run before on that system, a dialog comes up warning the user not to click OK unless he/she KNOWS that it is a safe program. If there is any doubt, the user is advised to click cancel.
....they believe themselves to be invincible to malware/viruses/exploits/etc...
Actually they are invincible if they don't run as admin and are not social engineered into typing in passwords or giving the OK for first run of unknown apps.
...Poorly administered servers can get trashed...
The vast majority of Mac users, just like most PC users don't run servers, so your comments don't apply at all. Mac OSX disables the root account by default and there is no reason for the average Mac user to enable it, even if he/she can figure out how. On windows you don't have to run a server, only connect it to a fast Internet service will get the computer messed up unless all the correct patches are applied before that network cable is ever plugged in.
..Symantic are surely drumming up some FUD...
Indeed true! Unlike Windows, Mac Apps do NOT require admin privs in order to work correctly. If a user downloads a file that tries to execute, a window will come up warning the user and recommending to not allow this execution. If a malware wants to install something, the Mac asks for an admin password, which if the user doesn't know it or give it if he/she does know it, cannot get any further. There are millions of Mac users already, and I know of no malware that affects Macs that don't require some social engineering to trick a user into giving some kind of OK or password in order for that nasty to have any effect.
Windows still is and always was in effect a single user system where the software writers ASSUME that the user has total access to any spot on the hard drive, as it has always been with a PERSONAL computer. Many programs, especially malware, write to the registry for example, so the malware will run when the computer boots. If and when MS decides to finally change that FACT, backward compatibility with most existing programs will disappear, forcing all users to upgrade most, if not all of their software apps. *NIX OS come from a true multi-user heritage and have always been more secure by neccessity.
...go ahead and strip out the DRM...
Actually, I don't find Apple's DRM all that opressive. So far I've been able to do what I want with the music I downloaded from them.
On contracts, how is anybody going to prove that it was I that clicked that mouse and not someone else using my computer? How about the neigbors 10 year old boy who is not legally qualified to enter into an enforecable contract? He can certainly click a mouse. I'm sure millions of ten year olds have clicked on so called EULAs, to install their games, all of which are legally worthless. As long as it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt WHO actually agreed to what, there is NO contract, no matter how many high priced lawyers have opinions to the contrary. If a piece of paper with my signature exists and can be presented in court, it becomes pretty difficult to deny such an obligation. That's why ALL truly legally binding contracts are STILL being done on paper, because ephemeral electronic bits are too easy to alter or spoof their true origin. Just try signing for a loan with a mouse click sometime!
Perhaps some sort of notarized electronic signatures using public key cryptography may become common in the future, but until that becomes universal, paper will be king of contracts.
...Granted the quality wouldn't be as good...
/.ers have such golden ears and $1000+ sound equipment that they could even HEAR the difference between an original CD and an encoded file in mp3 or aac if the bitrate were reasonably high, say 192bps or greater. I highly doubt even at only 128bps anyone in a car or most situations other than at home with a high class audio system could tell the difference. Certainly there is no computer sound system that has enough quality to showcase the difference between playing a CD in the drive or ripped mp3 copy of the same from the HD. The distortion of most anemic computer amp/speaker sets will certainly mask any quality differences due to encoding, if the encoding is well done.
I wonder if most
...When you buy used, you're not giving anything to the artist, either...
So what. When you buy a used Ford or Chevy or whatever, the carmakers don't make any more money than they have made already from the first sale.